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Posted: 12/3/2015 2:56:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Any non-citizen on a terror watch list should be removed from the country.
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Posted: 12/3/2015 5:27:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Would you rather them acquire traceable guns or un-traceable guns?
See my point here OP? They are going to get them one way or the other. Bombs too. |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 7:32:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No, felons and non citizens should not be able to. Why all the hate for Kiwi visitors 
Why so should I be denied the ability to buy guns while visiting or living in the USA ? There is a bunch of hate for us foreigners in this thread |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 7:36:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would you rather them acquire traceable guns or un-traceable guns? See my point here OP? They are going to get them one way or the other. Bombs too. Aren't all guns potentially untraceable with a file? |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 7:38:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, if only for the fact that placement on the list is arbitrary, and non-appealable.  THIS. The poll question is feeble. It's the wrong question. 1. Any one of us could be on that list BY MISTAKE. As much as 38 percent of the list is false-positive. 2. Any one of us could be on that list ON PURPOSE for political reasons. 3. There is no process for appeal. If you're on it, you're screwed. No appeal. Recently, USArmy commanders were asked to gather info from their soldiers about what weapons they had at home. Match that info with PTSD treatment, and "VOILA!" You are on the list. Wife files for restraining order during your divorce in, say, 1978-- POOF! You are on the list. Member at Arfcom? Member of a Tea Party group? Janet Napolitano doesn't like you? you are SOL bro. |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 7:45:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Of course. Who fuckin decides that bullshit and do you trust them? Your white bread friend Ali has a cousin in Pakistan he received a postcard from once and you get put on a list because you talk to him on the phone a lot? Who fuckin knows how they decide that shit but fuck no. Innocent until proven guilty. Gtfo out of here with giving them permission to deny your rights when you haven't done anything. You k ow half of these listings eral cunts think we are terrorists because we won't give up our guns or like the conatition.
Fuck that. |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 7:46:44 PM EDT
[#7]
For fucks sake I can't believe almost half of you want to give government permission to deny your rights just because.
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Posted: 12/3/2015 7:49:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To anyone thinking this is a good idea, what exactly is stopping the FBI from putting "right wing anti-government pro-2nd Amendment" types on a watch list? The answer is - nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 2A shouldn't be infringed. http://m.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2-000-terror-suspects-bought-guns-legally-report-article-1.2437868 To anyone thinking this is a good idea, what exactly is stopping the FBI from putting "right wing anti-government pro-2nd Amendment" types on a watch list? The answer is - nothing. |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 7:51:59 PM EDT
[#9]
So, what happens when they decide members of gun forums are possible homegrown terrorists and should be on the list?
How will you feel then? |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 7:52:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, felons and non citizens should not be able to. A large amount of the people on the terror watch list aren't felons or non-citizens. |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 7:53:50 PM EDT
[#11]
If you are on the terror watch list / no fly list you should either be under surveillance or be water boarded to give up the plot you are part of.
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Posted: 12/3/2015 7:54:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, because "due process" is still supposed to be a "thing" in America. As of right now, 43% of Arfcom hates the Constitution. It's sad. |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 8:13:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's sad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes, because "due process" is still supposed to be a "thing" in America. As of right now, 43% of Arfcom hates the Constitution. It's sad. 45 U.S. Senators hate the Constitution also (including Bernie Sanders): http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=114&session=1&vote=00319 |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 11:39:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
45 U.S. Senators hate the Constitution also (including Bernie Sanders): http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=114&session=1&vote=00319 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes, because "due process" is still supposed to be a "thing" in America. As of right now, 43% of Arfcom hates the Constitution. It's sad. 45 U.S. Senators hate the Constitution also (including Bernie Sanders): http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=114&session=1&vote=00319 Why is that shit being tied to a bill called "Restoring Americans' Healthcare Freedom Reconciliation Act of 2015". Gun control and/or national security riding on a fucking healthcare bill. Just so they can later say Republicans want people dying in the street w/o a doctor if that amendment had succeeded and ultimately torpedoed the bill as a whole. Fuck I hate politicians. Feinstein is a dirty old cunt. McConnell should have voted Yea on that shit used the Senate rules against them. |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 11:48:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Who gets to decide who goes on the "terrorist watch list"? The same people that think that NRA members are terrorists?!
Shall not be infringed. That goes for convicted felons as well. It's too easy to get a felony charge these days, add to that, if someone does their time and is released, rights restored. If they are too dangerous to own a firearm, why are they being trusted on the streets in the first place?! |
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Posted: 12/3/2015 11:57:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Yes.
Because they are natural rights. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 12:15:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, if only for the fact that placement on the list is arbitrary, and non-appealable. ^ This. I would wager that a large number of arfcommers don't realize that the list is a joke. You can be put on it for damn near anything (or nothing, if some pencil pusher has a typo), and it's damn near impossible to get off of. And you KNOW they'd abuse it in short order, assuming they aren't already. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 12:24:09 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Voted no, but it depends. My definition of suspected terrorist is someone who has ties with a actual terrorist group. ISIS, Al-Qaida, Taliban etc. Those shouldn't be allowed to purchase guns (And should have the FBI track them down and deal with them.) Well, the FBI green lights over 90% of the sales to people on the watch list, which tells me the list is over 90% people who are not a problem. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 1:59:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, what happens when they decide members of gun forums are possible homegrown terrorists and should be on the list? How will you feel then? Apparently nearly half who have read this are trolling from DU and would be ecstatic. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 2:26:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are on the terror watch list / no fly list you should either be under surveillance or be water boarded to give up the plot you are part of. How do you know you're not on the list? |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 2:46:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you know you're not on the list? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you are on the terror watch list / no fly list you should either be under surveillance or be water boarded to give up the plot you are part of. How do you know you're not on the list? He isn't being waterboarded, duh. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 2:52:35 PM EDT
[#22]
It seems we have almost 300 people that are too dumb to understand why the left pushes for this. If you answered no to this question you are part of the problem. Who gets to decide what the definition of a "suspected terrorist" is? Already the DHS circulated a report in 2009 identifying patriotic people who are concerned about illegal immigration, increasing federal power, restrictions on firearms, and abortion as potential threats. They also singled out returning war veterans. Do any one of you who answered no believe this list would not be used to deny YOU your rights? If so, you are a fool.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 2:54:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He isn't being waterboarded, duh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are on the terror watch list / no fly list you should either be under surveillance or be water boarded to give up the plot you are part of. How do you know you're not on the list? He isn't being waterboarded, duh. Yet. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 5:28:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Voted no, but it depends. My definition of suspected terrorist is someone who has ties with a actual terrorist group. ISIS, Al-Qaida, Taliban etc. Those shouldn't be allowed to purchase guns (And should have the FBI track them down and deal with them.) |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 5:35:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While the 2nd is not absolute, prohibition based on a secret watch list constitutes a gross violation of due process. +1 I think the government can put certain restrictions on gun purchases, as long as it's done through the formal channels of Congress and aren't out-right bans. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 5:38:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Voted no, but it depends. My definition of suspected terrorist is someone who has ties with a actual terrorist group. ISIS, Al-Qaida, Taliban etc. Those shouldn't be allowed to purchase guns (And should have the FBI track them down and deal with them.) If someone is a suspected terrorist, arrest them. If someone has an active terrorism investigation, but isn't ready for arrest, don't tip them off. But that's not what the "no fly list" is about. The no fly list is arbitrary and huge, and has been declared unConstitutional. It shouldn't have any bearing on anything. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 5:44:52 PM EDT
[#27]
The terrorists in France were able to come by guns in a country where they couldn't buy them legally.
List is pointless. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 5:45:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did they get due process, or is it arbitrary? What's to stop you or me from being placed on some list? This. A watch list gets very close to minority report. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 5:48:28 PM EDT
[#29]
It always amazes me how many people on AR15.COM either don't understand what the Constitution actually says, or simply don't give a shit.
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Posted: 12/4/2015 7:10:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, if only for the fact that placement on the list is arbitrary, and non-appealable. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 7:15:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How does a person whom is not an actual citizen of this country have the fucking right to buy a gun? THEY AREN'T CITIZENS!!! They are transplants who claim they are "refugees" from a war torn country. NO they do not have the right to buy guns because they do not have rights under the Constitution because they are not citizens. need to read your Constitution skippy. The word "People" appears an awful lot. The word "Citizen", not so much. The Bill of Rights lists the things a Government can't do. Doesn't make exceptions for citizenship. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 7:24:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It always amazes me how many people on AR15.COM either don't understand what the Constitution actually says, or simply don't give a shit. Many of them just play semantic games to justify their stupidity in supporting monstrously bad ideas. Ban those fools. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 8:33:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Over 40% of the people here agree with removing a person's Constitutional rights with no due process, or conviction.
WTF
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Posted: 12/4/2015 11:46:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Over 40% of the people here agree with removing a person's Constitutional rights with no due process, or conviction. WTFThere's a scary level misunderstanding of basic constitutional principals |
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Posted: 12/5/2015 11:57:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It always amazes me how many people on AR15.COM either don't understand what the Constitution actually says, or simply don't give a shit. I can only hope they are, by and large, DU trolls screwing with us. If not...... |
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Posted: 12/5/2015 11:59:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Unless they are convicted felons or legally adjudicated mental cases , yes.
I'm not a fan of .gov drawn up lists without actual court actions. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 12:00:09 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Under Obama, we're all suspected terrorists. Above. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 12:01:24 AM EDT
[#38]
If they are suspected terrorists then deport them.
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Posted: 12/6/2015 12:18:17 AM EDT
[#39]
I'm very concerned for GD right now.
If you can deny someones 2nd amendment rights based on a secret list with a secret criteria of how one gets on it, then why not deny them their 5th and 6th amendment rights. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 12:24:33 AM EDT
[#40]
Yes, as long as they are U.S. citizens. Due process means something. The constitution means something. As for talk of felons not owning funds... If they have done their time, why should they be denied their right to self defense? If they are truly dangerous, then why the hell see they out of prison in the first place.
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Posted: 12/6/2015 12:27:17 AM EDT
[#41]
I changed my mind and voted yes after thinking about this. For all I know I am on the list since I always get felt up in Airports by TSA.
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Posted: 12/6/2015 7:57:30 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they are suspected terrorists then deport them. Deport or revoke citizenship and exile? Where do people get the idea that only foreign nationals are on the lists? I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of the list is US citizens (natural born even) by this point. It's been reported that O's admin has added people to it at a much faster rate than W did. And I think we all know which groups they consider most dangerous. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 8:06:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No denial of rights without due process. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 8:13:25 AM EDT
[#44]
The word "suspected" sure opens a lot of worm cans. The interface between suspicion, law and rights has not yet been clearly defined in our culture, and may never be.
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Posted: 12/6/2015 8:19:26 AM EDT
[#45]
He's making a list
And checking it twice He's gonna find out If your naughty or nice........... |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 8:39:33 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No denial of rights without due process. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 8:43:12 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Voted no, but it depends. My definition of suspected terrorist is someone who has ties with a actual terrorist group. ISIS, Al-Qaida, Taliban etc. Those shouldn't be allowed to purchase guns (And should have the FBI track them down and deal with them.) This. I also want to add there should be due process in getting on this list. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 8:44:51 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did they get due process, or is it arbitrary? What's to stop you or me from being placed on some list? |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 8:45:53 AM EDT
[#49]
Question, when being put on this "list" do you get a trial? I mean is there any due process to this removal of constitutional rights?
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Posted: 12/6/2015 8:47:40 AM EDT
[#50]
If there is a credible reason to believe that you are too dangerous to own a gun then there should be enough information backing it to detain you. What's to keep everyone member of this site from being declared terrorist?
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