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Posted: 12/27/2014 6:20:04 PM EDT
[#1]
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No. You answer 17,000+ questions from LEO and lawyers regarding EXACTLY how thing went down. 98+% chance they are going to know if you are lying. ESPECIALLY if it's your first rodeo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dang, I just picked up my SBX and lower today. This kinda tix me off, but it doesn't change much, since the SBX/SB15 is still legal, and I can put any pistol upper on it. If I do need to shoulder it in a HD situation, then they will have to catch me in the process I guess. So you shoot an intruder, he lives, then he tells the judge that you brought the gun up to your shoulder?  No. You answer 17,000+ questions from LEO and lawyers regarding EXACTLY how thing went down. 98+% chance they are going to know if you are lying. ESPECIALLY if it's your first rodeo. Or you could just exercise your rights under the Fifth Amendment. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 6:25:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Come on people, honestly no one saw this coming?
I bet not even 1% of Sig braces are used in a way they were designed for. It was just a matter of time before the ATF got around to this. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 6:26:48 PM EDT
[#3]
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Again, thats the rules, thier rules, thier game. petition Congress... ATF is just doing its job. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, thats the rules, thier rules, thier game. petition Congress... ATF is just doing its job. Quoted:
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hord them all you want, just use them as a ''Brace'' Or just be a Man and Pay the 200 to properly SBR your weapon. Quoted:
Should I start hoarding sig braces????? LOL. Yeah, nothing says "I'm a man" quite like paying the government for permission to attach a piece of plastic to your legally owned property. Good one. Are you kidding me? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 6:28:13 PM EDT
[#4]
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You do realize that Military, Police, Teachers, and CPA's are all professions that require fingerprinting in order to be able to work in that profession....right? I can guarantee you were NEVER "literally fingerprinted along side criminals." You dont bring people getting fingerprinted for work in while you're booking a criminal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So. .. if I own a pistol with a sb15, and have never shouldered it, but I let my friend try it and he shoulders it. What do I do now? I cant leave it on, because I now have an unregistered SBR. I can't take it off because that would be making a pistol out of a rifle. Kind of an untenable position. Let's be honest, the number of folks with a disability who use the brace as intended is minuscule. The majority of people who bought the thing saw it is a "legal" alternative to a registered SBR and intended to fire it from the shoulder. I don't fault them for that, because fuck the ridiculous NFA restrictions. I own NFA weapons. The hoops I had to jump through as a law abiding citizen were insulting; literally fingerprinted along side criminals. Continuing to push the envelope with the Sig brace, given the most recent guidance put out, falls under "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". The money and effort is better spent attempting to open the MG registry and relax restrictions on SBRs, suppressors, etc. You do realize that Military, Police, Teachers, and CPA's are all professions that require fingerprinting in order to be able to work in that profession....right? I can guarantee you were NEVER "literally fingerprinted along side criminals." You dont bring people getting fingerprinted for work in while you're booking a criminal. Durrrrr, no, I don't understand that. 
I was finger printed in a booking room. There were several other people in the room. They were handcuffed to the bench and not being actively engaged. My wife experienced the same thing when she got her CCW at the Sheriff's office in the next town over. What can I say... small town Missouri Police Department. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 6:30:38 PM EDT
[#5]
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Yes, taken SBR's out of state many times. a form allows that, very easy to do... its not a big deal. and you dont need to do it with Suppressors. no jealous here, i shoulder my gun all day long. and dont have to hope its ok. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, taken SBR's out of state many times. a form allows that, very easy to do... its not a big deal. and you dont need to do it with Suppressors. no jealous here, i shoulder my gun all day long. and dont have to hope its ok. Quoted:
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not quite sonny, the brace isnt much less anyway. ill pay the extra to know i can use it as i choose... not is it ok today but not tomorrow. i been in the game long before most here now, i dont have to look over my shoulder or hide when i shoot. and im Happy with that. to me its not a $$$ thing... 200 really isnt all that much. Quoted:
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hint hint... its ok bros, i got me some Forms with a cool stamp on it that says i dont have to strap it to my wrist. ask Adkins how it goes when they change thier minds.... thier rules. Ah, I get it. You had to pay $200 for a stamp so everyone else should too right? Otherwise, it's just not fair. I really think this is why so many guys are against the brace. It's nothing but jealousy...and quite pathetic. Why is the cost always brought up? Here's a hint...it's not about the money. Ever try to take that shiny sbr out of state? For a bunch of people that claim to love freedom, gun owners as a group sure don't practice what they preach. And I still say hate for the brace is jealousy. How's that shoe leather taste? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 6:31:26 PM EDT
[#6]
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Durrrrr, no, I don't understand that.
I was finger printed in a booking room. There were several other people in the room. They were handcuffed to the bench. I was not. My wife experienced the same thing when she got her CCW at the Sheriff's office. What can I say... small town Missouri Police Department. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So. .. if I own a pistol with a sb15, and have never shouldered it, but I let my friend try it and he shoulders it. What do I do now? I cant leave it on, because I now have an unregistered SBR. I can't take it off because that would be making a pistol out of a rifle. Kind of an untenable position. Let's be honest, the number of folks with a disability who use the brace as intended is minuscule. The majority of people who bought the thing saw it is a "legal" alternative to a registered SBR and intended to fire it from the shoulder. I don't fault them for that, because fuck the ridiculous NFA restrictions. I own NFA weapons. The hoops I had to jump through as a law abiding citizen were insulting; literally fingerprinted along side criminals. Continuing to push the envelope with the Sig brace, given the most recent guidance put out, falls under "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". The money and effort is better spent attempting to open the MG registry and relax restrictions on SBRs, suppressors, etc. You do realize that Military, Police, Teachers, and CPA's are all professions that require fingerprinting in order to be able to work in that profession....right? I can guarantee you were NEVER "literally fingerprinted along side criminals." You dont bring people getting fingerprinted for work in while you're booking a criminal. Durrrrr, no, I don't understand that.
I was finger printed in a booking room. There were several other people in the room. They were handcuffed to the bench. I was not. My wife experienced the same thing when she got her CCW at the Sheriff's office. What can I say... small town Missouri Police Department. So you booted cops out of the Army? What agency near you hires cops that get "booted" from the Army. Who's hiring someone with a lss than hon discharge....that's what I think when I hear "booted". |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 6:35:28 PM EDT
[#7]
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So you booted cops out of the Army? What agency near you hires cops that get "booted" from the Army. Who's hiring someone with a lss than hon discharge....that's what I think when I hear "booted". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So. .. if I own a pistol with a sb15, and have never shouldered it, but I let my friend try it and he shoulders it. What do I do now? I cant leave it on, because I now have an unregistered SBR. I can't take it off because that would be making a pistol out of a rifle. Kind of an untenable position. Let's be honest, the number of folks with a disability who use the brace as intended is minuscule. The majority of people who bought the thing saw it is a "legal" alternative to a registered SBR and intended to fire it from the shoulder. I don't fault them for that, because fuck the ridiculous NFA restrictions. I own NFA weapons. The hoops I had to jump through as a law abiding citizen were insulting; literally fingerprinted along side criminals. Continuing to push the envelope with the Sig brace, given the most recent guidance put out, falls under "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". The money and effort is better spent attempting to open the MG registry and relax restrictions on SBRs, suppressors, etc. You do realize that Military, Police, Teachers, and CPA's are all professions that require fingerprinting in order to be able to work in that profession....right? I can guarantee you were NEVER "literally fingerprinted along side criminals." You dont bring people getting fingerprinted for work in while you're booking a criminal. Durrrrr, no, I don't understand that.
I was finger printed in a booking room. There were several other people in the room. They were handcuffed to the bench. I was not. My wife experienced the same thing when she got her CCW at the Sheriff's office. What can I say... small town Missouri Police Department. So you booted cops out of the Army? What agency near you hires cops that get "booted" from the Army. Who's hiring someone with a lss than hon discharge....that's what I think when I hear "booted". I dont even know who you are replying to. The only mention of "booting" is in your post, not mine or mxpatrio51t's |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 6:36:25 PM EDT
[#8]
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So you booted cops out of the Army? What agency near you hires cops that get "booted" from the Army. Who's hiring someone with a lss than hon discharge....that's what I think when I hear "booted". You can be chaptered from the Army (removed from the service against your will) under honorable conditions. Failing to comply with height/weight standards and failure to pass the APFT are the most common instances of this. I'm not going to explain the chapter process to you, if you want to learn about that read AR 27-10, the MCM, and the UCMJ. /hijack |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 6:37:36 PM EDT
[#9]
FFS
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Posted: 12/27/2014 6:51:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Iam waiting for a lawyer (or someone very knowledgable) to write a letter the ATF with both the Nov 10th and the Bradley letter attached.
And they are able to articulate it in a way to really back them into a corner so they will agree that however you decide to use a weapon does NOT change its classification. Most of all I want the author of both letters to answer these few questions... In the Bradley letter you state: Further, certain firearm accessories such as the Sig Stability Brace Have not been classified by the FTB as shoulder stocks, and, therefore using the brace improperly does not constitue a design change. Using such an accessory improperly would not change the classification per Federal law. Do you have the power to change Federal law whenever you see fit? Or we're you mistaken when you said using an accessory improperly does not change classification per Federal law? Is it Federal law or not? Please explain. Can you explain why your letters are so different? Have the laws on this changed in 8 months? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:06:59 PM EDT
[#11]
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Iam waiting for a lawyer (or someone very knowledgable) to write a letter the ATF with both the Nov 10th and the Bradley letter attached. And they are able to articulate it in a way to really back them into a corner so they will agree that however you decide to use a weapon does NOT change its classification. Most of all I want the author of both letters to answer these few questions... In the Bradley letter you state: Do you have the power to change Federal law whenever you see fit? Or we're you mistaken when you said using an accessory improperly does not change classification per Federal law? Is it Federal law or not? Please explain. Can you explain why your letters are so different? Have the laws on this changed in 8 months? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Iam waiting for a lawyer (or someone very knowledgable) to write a letter the ATF with both the Nov 10th and the Bradley letter attached. And they are able to articulate it in a way to really back them into a corner so they will agree that however you decide to use a weapon does NOT change its classification. Most of all I want the author of both letters to answer these few questions... In the Bradley letter you state: Further, certain firearm accessories such as the Sig Stability Brace Have not been classified by the FTB as shoulder stocks, and, therefore using the brace improperly does not constitue a design change. Using such an accessory improperly would not change the classification per Federal law. Do you have the power to change Federal law whenever you see fit? Or we're you mistaken when you said using an accessory improperly does not change classification per Federal law? Is it Federal law or not? Please explain. Can you explain why your letters are so different? Have the laws on this changed in 8 months? Sadly, I think with the agency we're talking about, if you were to send a letter pointing all this out to them, they'd probably just move to classify the SB15 as a buttstock to save themselves the trouble and to end the "loophole" of sorts. This is of course only my opinion, so it's worth what you paid for it. ETA: I also would assume, if this were to occur, Sig would end up filing another suit against the ATF alongside their "muzzle brake" one. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:20:55 PM EDT
[#12]
At the range today three people were shooting from the shoulder, and I didn't not see any ATF paddy wagons.
I think people that actually shoot really don't care. only the keyboard commando lawyers seem to care. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:32:54 PM EDT
[#13]
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At the range today three people were shooting from the shoulder, and I didn't not see any ATF paddy wagons. I think people that actually shoot really don't care. only the keyboard commando lawyers seem to care. The horse is definitely out of the barn on this. I anticipate a few well publicized malicious prosecutions as ATFs next move. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:34:51 PM EDT
[#14]
so if I had not found this post and shot from the shoulder even having the ATF note, I could be prosecuted? Fuck them.
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:36:13 PM EDT
[#15]
So is it actually illegal to shoulder the brace or not?
How are people who don't come into GD supposed to know if it's legal or not? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:38:09 PM EDT
[#16]
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At the range today three people were shooting from the shoulder, and I didn't not see any ATF paddy wagons. I think people that actually shoot really don't care. only the keyboard commando lawyers seem to care. I hope you called the ATF. 
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:42:35 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:43:19 PM EDT
[#18]
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You do realize that Military, Police, Teachers, and CPA's are all professions that require fingerprinting in order to be able to work in that profession....right? I can guarantee you were NEVER "literally fingerprinted along side criminals." You dont bring people getting fingerprinted for work in while you're booking a criminal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So. .. if I own a pistol with a sb15, and have never shouldered it, but I let my friend try it and he shoulders it. What do I do now? I cant leave it on, because I now have an unregistered SBR. I can't take it off because that would be making a pistol out of a rifle. Kind of an untenable position. Let's be honest, the number of folks with a disability who use the brace as intended is minuscule. The majority of people who bought the thing saw it is a "legal" alternative to a registered SBR and intended to fire it from the shoulder. I don't fault them for that, because fuck the ridiculous NFA restrictions. I own NFA weapons. The hoops I had to jump through as a law abiding citizen were insulting; literally fingerprinted along side criminals. Continuing to push the envelope with the Sig brace, given the most recent guidance put out, falls under "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". The money and effort is better spent attempting to open the MG registry and relax restrictions on SBRs, suppressors, etc. You do realize that Military, Police, Teachers, and CPA's are all professions that require fingerprinting in order to be able to work in that profession....right? I can guarantee you were NEVER "literally fingerprinted along side criminals." You dont bring people getting fingerprinted for work in while you're booking a criminal. When they did my employment prints at the jail, there were prisoners in the immediate area. Some trustees, some sitting on the floor against the wall awaiting processing. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 7:45:14 PM EDT
[#19]
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so if I had not found this post and shot from the shoulder even having the ATF note, I could be prosecuted? Fuck them. Don't worry. They will probably pick some low hanging fruit (someone who posted a video or pics of them firing from the shoulder with a sig brace) and prosecute them very publicly to get the word out. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 8:33:55 PM EDT
[#20]
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Where is this "approval" letter that states its intended to be used by shooters with disabilities? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do the bump fires stocks redesign shit into machine guns? Has anyone wrote the ATF a letter to confirm?  That's the next one. Their "approval" letter even states it's intended to be used by shooters with disabilities. I'm not disabled, so I'm clearly not legal to use it. How about the other people who own them? Where is this "approval" letter that states its intended to be used by shooters with disabilities? It was posted on their website. If it's not any longer I have it saved on an old hard drive I can dig out. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 8:35:19 PM EDT
[#21]
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thats because the mods are on vacation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Strange how the mods have let these two threads with identical titles go 10 pgs. I keep jumping back and forth trying to keep up. I'm just sticking with this one. thats because the mods are on vacation. I'd go with them being started in different areas, and so different people replying to them. Some people don't post in GD. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 8:38:49 PM EDT
[#22]
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Sadly, I think with the agency we're talking about, if you were to send a letter pointing all this out to them, they'd probably just move to classify the SB15 as a buttstock to save themselves the trouble and to end the "loophole" of sorts. This is of course only my opinion, so it's worth what you paid for it. ETA: I also would assume, if this were to occur, Sig would end up filing another suit against the ATF alongside their "muzzle brake" one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Iam waiting for a lawyer (or someone very knowledgable) to write a letter the ATF with both the Nov 10th and the Bradley letter attached. And they are able to articulate it in a way to really back them into a corner so they will agree that however you decide to use a weapon does NOT change its classification. Most of all I want the author of both letters to answer these few questions... In the Bradley letter you state: Further, certain firearm accessories such as the Sig Stability Brace Have not been classified by the FTB as shoulder stocks, and, therefore using the brace improperly does not constitue a design change. Using such an accessory improperly would not change the classification per Federal law. Do you have the power to change Federal law whenever you see fit? Or we're you mistaken when you said using an accessory improperly does not change classification per Federal law? Is it Federal law or not? Please explain. Can you explain why your letters are so different? Have the laws on this changed in 8 months? Sadly, I think with the agency we're talking about, if you were to send a letter pointing all this out to them, they'd probably just move to classify the SB15 as a buttstock to save themselves the trouble and to end the "loophole" of sorts. This is of course only my opinion, so it's worth what you paid for it. ETA: I also would assume, if this were to occur, Sig would end up filing another suit against the ATF alongside their "muzzle brake" one. Might not. Sig doesn't own the brace design. They just have them branded for them. Like their lights and laser units. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 8:41:04 PM EDT
[#23]
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I don't live in Fear. But I don't claim a Mag Magnet is a Tool, either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Get the stamp and stop being a cheapass. Honestly the only reason the SPB should even be considered is if your state does not allow loaded long guns in a vehicle but pistols are kosher. No stamps at all allowed here. And rifles have to be left unloaded. Where a pistol could be added to a CCW and hauled around loaded. That BATFE letter won't mean Squat in State Court........ 
You could group any gun into that statement, starting with all AR-15s. What is it like to live in fear? You seem to be afraid to tell those where you are from. List your state. And you changed the subject item. No one said the super tool or whatever it's called is legal. But there are a ton of pistols in Ca being sold new with Sig braces from the B&M dealer. Where are they selling AR-15s with a mag magnet installed? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 8:57:48 PM EDT
[#24]
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I'd go with them being started in different areas, and so different people replying to them. Some people don't post in GD. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Strange how the mods have let these two threads with identical titles go 10 pgs. I keep jumping back and forth trying to keep up. I'm just sticking with this one. thats because the mods are on vacation. I'd go with them being started in different areas, and so different people replying to them. Some people don't post in GD. that and the fact duplicate threads relating to real issues are not a coc issue. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 9:03:09 PM EDT
[#25]
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that and the fact duplicate threads relating to real issues are not a coc issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Strange how the mods have let these two threads with identical titles go 10 pgs. I keep jumping back and forth trying to keep up. I'm just sticking with this one. thats because the mods are on vacation. I'd go with them being started in different areas, and so different people replying to them. Some people don't post in GD. that and the fact duplicate threads relating to real issues are not a coc issue. That too.
And there are different posters in each one. Interesting to watch them develop. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 9:08:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote Historythis article brings up a good point about the "manufacture and intent" . there seems to be an issue/question with a complete pistol built with a brace, vs adding one after the fact. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 9:17:44 PM EDT
[#27]
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this article brings up a good point about the "manufacture and intent" . there seems to be an issue/question with a complete pistol built with a brace, vs adding one after the fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
this article brings up a good point about the "manufacture and intent" . there seems to be an issue/question with a complete pistol built with a brace, vs adding one after the fact. That is not what he is saying. He is saying ATF blessed the brace on a pistol and the manufacturing process takes place when the gun is put together. The manufacturing process takes place prior to use and touching a shoulder is not a manufacturing process. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 9:37:59 PM EDT
[#28]
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So thankful I have stamps. 
seriously though, why did someone even ask about this? Because they've been taught, their entire lives, that unless they have explicit permission, then it's forbidden. And that is the true downfall of our nation. Not the decline of the family. Not the loss of manufacturing jobs. Not FDR or LBJ or Obama. The social mindset that rights only exist at the pleasure of our government. Word Or it's someone looking to torpedo this whole thing.......not like there weren't tons of negative Nancy's calling the SB illegal. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 9:40:34 PM EDT
[#29]
This is retarded didn't the atf already say they can't determine how you fire your weapon? And the brace was ruled not a stock...... So dont shoulder the brace shoulder the buffer tube, the brace is just there.
 Make the buffer stick out 1/8th in? Put the brace on your chest? The wording in that letter is fucked all over the place.
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Posted: 12/27/2014 9:43:33 PM EDT
[#30]
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Agreed. Further, every letter opinion from ATF should be provided by the atf online. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do the bump fires stocks redesign shit into machine guns? Has anyone wrote the ATF a letter to confirm? Agreed. Further, every letter opinion from ATF should be provided by the atf online. That would be epic. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 9:45:34 PM EDT
[#31]
So if shouldering a SIG brace is a no-go, how is that any different than shouldering a pistol with a tube?
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Posted: 12/27/2014 9:48:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Is there really even a point to sending the ATF an approval letter?
Because even if YOU have an approval addressed to YOU on let's just say... The Magpul AFG. I can think of 2-3 letters where this is ok on a AR pistol. But what's to stop them from coming out with a new decision on it? Nothing! So now SGT. Bradley can be at a range shouldering his SB15 with his approval letter addressed to HIM, but now he could be prosecuted for an illegal SBR because of one man who changed his mind on what the law is??? Wow... |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 9:48:58 PM EDT
[#33]
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I like the note on the end. I brought this up when we discussed the Mare's Leg a while back, and how technically anything shorter than a full length stock, would fit the definition of a "short stock" in regards to making it classified as a pistol. If that's the case, wouldn't any M4 stock also fit the definition of a "short stock" in relation to the A1? 
Then we also have oddities like the ARM pistol to further complicate things. http://www.biggerhammer.net/armpistol/bushmaster_rightside_mag_web.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here is what an Attorney wrote http://blog.princelaw.com/2014/12/26/whoops-we-atf-did-it-again-arbitrary-determinations-over-the-sig-brace/#comment-20159 I like the note on the end. UPDATE: There was something bothering me about this determination and I couldn’t put my finger on it…then I remembered. It is the place that 99% of lawyers overlook, the definition section. Very few people take notice that the definition of a handgun includes as part of the definition a “short stock”. Section 921(a)(29) declares that the definition of a handgun is “(A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.” I am not sure if there has been any litigation or court decisions over what constitutes a “short stock” but it is something that needs to be investigated. I brought this up when we discussed the Mare's Leg a while back, and how technically anything shorter than a full length stock, would fit the definition of a "short stock" in regards to making it classified as a pistol. If that's the case, wouldn't any M4 stock also fit the definition of a "short stock" in relation to the A1?
Then we also have oddities like the ARM pistol to further complicate things. http://www.biggerhammer.net/armpistol/bushmaster_rightside_mag_web.jpg 
Made me think of this stock |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 9:58:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if shouldering a SIG brace is a no-go, how is that any different than shouldering a pistol with a tube? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 10:00:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So is it actually illegal to shoulder the brace or not? How are people who don't come into GD supposed to know if it's legal or not? Consumer products usually have warning labels on them. It should be by law the ATF has to notify the brace manufacturer or any new changes in the law so they can put warning labels on the consumer product. I haven't heard of anything from the brace manufacturer on any changes. I don't think they have been contacted by the ATF no? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 10:02:55 PM EDT
[#36]
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Not to mention people could troll the ATF posting Sig Braces on SBR lowers. The whole thing is completely unenforceable. In the first publicized "Sig Brace being shouldered" review, they did exactly that, which was prior to the Sgt. Bradley letter. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/08/18/sig-sb15-pistol-stabilizing-brace-review/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not to mention people could troll the ATF posting Sig Braces on SBR lowers. The whole thing is completely unenforceable. In the first publicized "Sig Brace being shouldered" review, they did exactly that, which was prior to the Sgt. Bradley letter. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/08/18/sig-sb15-pistol-stabilizing-brace-review/ That sounds like something I would do.
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Posted: 12/27/2014 10:09:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Well crap - I JUST got one a few days ago as part of a pistol build kit from PSA
I haven't even taken it out of the bag. Now I just want to sell it. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 10:13:59 PM EDT
[#38]
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Paying the tax stamp is being a coward, not a "man." Just lick the boots, citizen. Man the fuck up Quote HistoryQuoted:
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hord them all you want, just use them as a ''Brace'' Or just be a Man and Pay the 200 to properly SBR your weapon. Quoted:
Should I start hoarding sig braces????? Paying the tax stamp is being a coward, not a "man." Just lick the boots, citizen. Man the fuck up So it's manlier if I make a Home Depot Sten as opposed to plopping down $10,000 for a real one? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 10:15:20 PM EDT
[#39]
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So it's manlier if I make a Home Depot Sten as opposed to plopping down $10,000 for a real one? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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hord them all you want, just use them as a ''Brace'' Or just be a Man and Pay the 200 to properly SBR your weapon. Quoted:
Should I start hoarding sig braces????? Paying the tax stamp is being a coward, not a "man." Just lick the boots, citizen. Man the fuck up So it's manlier if I make a Home Depot Sten as opposed to plopping down $10,000 for a real one? Honestly? Yes. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 10:25:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Here's a thought ... be mad at the dumb asses who post shouldering a SIG brace on youtube or take it to a public range to flaunt how they're getting one over on the ATF.
Everyone knew it was a "grey area" item ... but thank the dumb asses that have to flaunt things. BTW, I think NFA is stupid, but damn some people can't RESIST posting their crap or drawing attention with "LOOK AT ME" videos. My 2 cents. Edit: I have a SIG brace and don't flaunt it. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 10:45:39 PM EDT
[#41]
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Nothing is different. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So if shouldering a SIG brace is a no-go, how is that any different than shouldering a pistol with a tube? So are they now saying that shouldering any AR pistol in any configuration is illegal? |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 10:54:18 PM EDT
[#42]
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So are they now saying that shouldering any AR pistol in any configuration is illegal? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So if shouldering a SIG brace is a no-go, how is that any different than shouldering a pistol with a tube? So are they now saying that shouldering any AR pistol in any configuration is illegal? By the reasoning in this most recent letter, I would say so. However, they don't appear to ever apply their reasoning uniformly across all topics, so at this point, who the fuck knows. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 10:54:20 PM EDT
[#43]
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Here's a thought ... be mad at the dumb asses who post shouldering a SIG brace on youtube or take it to a public range to flaunt how they're getting one over on the ATF. Everyone knew it was a "grey area" item ... but thank the dumb asses that have to flaunt things. BTW, I think NFA is stupid, but damn some people can't RESIST posting their crap or drawing attention with "LOOK AT ME" videos. My 2 cents. Edit: I have a SIG brace and don't flaunt it. It does play into it. The ATF pays people to watch those videos, and read posts on websites such as this one. Some times we are our own worst enemy. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 11:03:57 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 12/27/2014 11:04:01 PM EDT
[#45]
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So if shouldering a SIG brace is a no-go, how is that any different than shouldering a pistol with a tube? Exactly... It won't take much of a leap based on recent developments. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 11:07:31 PM EDT
[#46]
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It does play into it. The ATF pays people to watch those videos, and read posts on websites such as this one. Some times we are our own worst enemy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here's a thought ... be mad at the dumb asses who post shouldering a SIG brace on youtube or take it to a public range to flaunt how they're getting one over on the ATF. Everyone knew it was a "grey area" item ... but thank the dumb asses that have to flaunt things. BTW, I think NFA is stupid, but damn some people can't RESIST posting their crap or drawing attention with "LOOK AT ME" videos. My 2 cents. Edit: I have a SIG brace and don't flaunt it. It does play into it. The ATF pays people to watch those videos, and read posts on websites such as this one. Some times we are our own worst enemy. ain't it the truth |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 11:20:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryYour a 13ner so they mat act like they didn't see this. this looks like it solves the misunderstanding. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 11:23:36 PM EDT
[#48]
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Your a 13ner so they mat act like they didn't see this. this looks like it solves the misunderstanding. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your a 13ner so they mat act like they didn't see this. this looks like it solves the misunderstanding. Being a 13er has nothing to do it. The author of that article is neither a professional lawyer, nor is he a member of the ATF and can speak for them. That article is the author's interpretation of the ATF's intent regarding intent. As far as I'm concerned, the author is about as trust worthy and accurate as anyone posting on this thread. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 11:26:05 PM EDT
[#49]
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Durrrrr, no, I don't understand that.
I was finger printed in a booking room. There were several other people in the room. They were handcuffed to the bench and not being actively engaged. My wife experienced the same thing when she got her CCW at the Sheriff's office in the next town over. What can I say... small town Missouri Police Department. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So. .. if I own a pistol with a sb15, and have never shouldered it, but I let my friend try it and he shoulders it. What do I do now? I cant leave it on, because I now have an unregistered SBR. I can't take it off because that would be making a pistol out of a rifle. Kind of an untenable position. Let's be honest, the number of folks with a disability who use the brace as intended is minuscule. The majority of people who bought the thing saw it is a "legal" alternative to a registered SBR and intended to fire it from the shoulder. I don't fault them for that, because fuck the ridiculous NFA restrictions. I own NFA weapons. The hoops I had to jump through as a law abiding citizen were insulting; literally fingerprinted along side criminals. Continuing to push the envelope with the Sig brace, given the most recent guidance put out, falls under "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". The money and effort is better spent attempting to open the MG registry and relax restrictions on SBRs, suppressors, etc. You do realize that Military, Police, Teachers, and CPA's are all professions that require fingerprinting in order to be able to work in that profession....right? I can guarantee you were NEVER "literally fingerprinted along side criminals." You dont bring people getting fingerprinted for work in while you're booking a criminal. Durrrrr, no, I don't understand that.
I was finger printed in a booking room. There were several other people in the room. They were handcuffed to the bench and not being actively engaged. My wife experienced the same thing when she got her CCW at the Sheriff's office in the next town over. What can I say... small town Missouri Police Department. I am an LEO, have been one for 22 years. I had to get fingerprinted and my criminal history ran when I did my form one for my SBR and for both suppressors I have purchased. It was a a state facility that also processes sex offenders and probationers. I was there to meet the legal requirement to possess something they will never be able to legally have. I am okay with that. |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 11:31:46 PM EDT
[#50]
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Being a 13er has nothing to do it. The author of that article is neither a professional lawyer, nor is he a member of the ATF and can speak for them. That article is the author's interpretation of the ATF's intent regarding intent. As far as I'm concerned, the author is about as trust worthy and accurate as anyone posting on this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Your a 13ner so they mat act like they didn't see this. this looks like it solves the misunderstanding. Being a 13er has nothing to do it. The author of that article is neither a professional lawyer, nor is he a member of the ATF and can speak for them. That article is the author's interpretation of the ATF's intent regarding intent. As far as I'm concerned, the author is about as trust worthy and accurate as anyone posting on this thread. And, he's usually an idiot. He's the same retard that said it would be stupid to use an AR15 for self defense. =http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/03/foghorn/self-defense-tip-dont-use-a-rifle/ He also seems to have invented a question which is not reflected in the letter. Although, at the same time, I'm curious. The question posed in the letter says "noveske flash hider", the opinion specifies 'flaming pig'. Wonder why the ATF would call it by a nickname... |
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