Not really.  He's clearly talking about two possibly separate issues.

I'm not saying the 320 "mystery firing" doesn't fall under the second one. Hopefully testing will tell the truth.

No, I’m just fucking around.

This whole part of the thread is dumb specifically because the drop safety thing seems to have fuck and all with what the thread is attempting to actually discuss.

Also, let’s contrast the two separate issues. The drop safety thing is completely understood and easily replicated as has been done and discussed ad nauseum.

Whatever phantom discharges are being alleged here have none of that. Or if it’s been demonstrated in such ways, I’d love to see it, because thus far I’ve seen none. If it’s real I’d love to see it and learn.

Edit; and to be clear I’m not saying you said the opposite of anything above, I’m just giving my .02 while I’m back here.

Different types of failures. The trigger safety prevents inertia from pulling the trigger. You can still ND a gun with a trigger safety of course. It just won’t go off from sudden impacts like some 320s.

Remember the FNS 40 same shit

Yup that video show everything in such close high detail that you can even see the pistol in the holster and that nothing was anywhere near the pistol, even the person.

Then why are you arguing to protect the stupidity of others?

It's all good, and I agree.

I would love to see some of the archived posts and who made them calling BS about the drop firing before it was proven though.

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Are you arguing drop and then discharge or are you arguing when a cop puts a hole in their leg?

Adding the drop discharge issue was ONLY at a particular height and at a particular angle to cause enough inertia of the old style trigger to move back.

You are smarter than this, don't play ignorant.

It also seems to help avoid uncommanded firing due to holster and garment issues. The same with debris getting into a holster.

I’m just shedding the light of truth on the topic.

The fact is that some 320s will discharge without anything touching the trigger. But we have people who know that to be true who continue to pretend otherwise.

Hopefully the exact numbers will come out in discovery.

Probably the same people who now claim the “drop firing” (inertia actually) has been fixed.

Are you mixing drop discharge with cop shooting a hole in their leg?

My “argument” has always been the 320 will only fire when the trigger moves to the rear. That there are an unknown number of guns that will do so as a result of a drop, fall, toss, impact, because Sig never did a recall.

It’s a lie to say it’s only from a certain height or at a certain angle. A sufficient blow the the back of the gun provides enough inertia to fire some 320s.

What do you mean mixing? In an unknown number of cases the “drop” issue resulted in injuries. Putting the affected guns in a holster did not prevent the inertia discharges.

The pre-upgraded 320s would fire if dropped from a certain height and at the angle that would have the gun land on the beavertail to induce the inertia movement, mind you a test procedure not done normally.

The blow to the back with a mallet still required to hit at the right angle. Facts and all that. Basic physics.

Or apparently taking off your gun belt and tossing it into your locker or the bed of your truck. The gun doesn’t care. Just needs enough energy transferred to the right part of the gun.

How many non “upgraded” 320s are there in the USA? Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Hopefully we find out in discovery

Negligence of an AD/ND added to the negligence of pointing a gun at someone when better muzzle discipline was needed.

lots of BS stories are attempted and I’ve picked a few a part and got to the real truth.  People try to gloss over their mistakes, it’s human nature.

very common, half the time the lies fall apart because the party is covering for some relative felon that shouldn’t have had a gun to begin with.
it’s not always boiled down to one factor, it’s usually contributing factors, with some bigger than others.

Gun mechanical problems are very low on the list but it happens.  A couple incidents with people hunting with cheap guns with broken plastic trigger guards.  A couple lever guns that managed to snag the hammer and fire without catching on a hammer shelf.  

Muzzle discipline is a very common major issue, otherwise it’s a noise event not an oh shit John’s been shot incident.

Fatigue, unfamiliarity with the particular firearm, frozen cold hands that slipped, tripped, slipped, snagged gun on brush.  


Then you have light/ time of day, weather, activities, experience.   10 page report was just for starters (expandable) with all the details that may have been a factor.


Anyways, “it just went off” like most of you, I am pretty skeptical.   I know jack schitt about the 320 but I focus on the human, holster, gun interface.   My best guess is that trigger is getting tripped more or less as it was designed.  If that is the case, the next step is to analyze the why.  Can Sig fans just say every person who had a 320 discharge in a holster is a negligent dumbass?  That is certainly a possibility but that is a short sighted approach.

The gun may be a 100% mechanically fine but lack enough margin to not accidentally or negligently activate the trigger,    Sure it’s not walking around with a cocked revolver or single action race gun but something is supposedly happening.  I have shot one just once so I won’t judge the gun much, I liked it, it felt great in my hand.  Just maybe the trigger is too short, light, nice for the LCD or too short and light for cheap ill fitting holsters.

Not my job nor my worry but I bet there are some agency firearms training guys that are trying to assess it, especially if their agency had an incident.


and yes there are people in the military and police service that make me cringe for my safety when the guns come out.  Same as 87% of arfcom.  Everybody thinks their shit don’t stink though.

People loved to hate on berettas, but when they are on safe they are about as safe as it gets. The trigger is disconnected, the hammer is fully de-cocked, half of the two part firing pin is swiveled out of alignment (and covered by the lowered hammer), and the part still in line with the primer is locked.

I ordered a custom P320. I highly doubt it will fire on its own. We will when I get it later this year.

So what was the cop doing when the gun went off?

“The” cop?  It’s been dozens

Its not though, Think of the P320 as a series 80 1911 with no grip safety and offered without a manual safety as an option. It is as terrible idea as it sounds.

Bleeding?

Ok, what were they doing when the gun went off?

Lol, not after.

That’s laughable your whole shtick is projecting onto others. You’ve been clowned in the Glock forum for doing it lol.

But you come to a Sig discussion to do your shtick?

Going from memory:

Throwing gun belt in vehicle
Throwing gun belt in locker
Ground fighting
Slip and falls
Dropping bag cont holstered gun
Fighting with suspects

The common denominator seems to be an impact of the holstered gun with the ground or other hard object

Is this the Sig Forum? I come to a thread in GD where we are discussing a flawed piece of shit.

Damn, I should have a mag full of 9mm holes in me by now...

Is yours an early version that has not had the “not a recall” performed? If so you’ve been lucky.

OP has just learned this after many previous Arfcom threads?

Texas DPS is a pretty large user of Sigs. Have they reported a significant number of cases?

Not an early version.

People are still talking about the early drop BS? Gheezus.

Yes. It’s an unresolved issue. There was no recall and only Sig knows how many thousands of guns remain affected. Hopefully that issue will come out in discovery and the settlement will include an actual recall.

Cool. Here's an arfcom members issued M17 with a safety delete!  (GASP!!!)I am pretty sure it hasn't "just gone off".

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How many G22's were recalled or even had a "upgrade program" when they were grenading themselves? I'm just curious...

God knows how many of those piles are still out there.

Not enough. Glock has an embarrassing history of failure to correct known issues. But this thread is about the Sig 320

How about zero. I was around and witnessed that BS. That is just one problem that Glocks have had and they didn't do shit.

Sig has the opportunity to be better. Will they take it?

They already did better, much better. They said if you have one of the early FCU's, send it in and they will fix it.

Glock never addressed the problem, at all.

I think this is the biggest problem. What’s even a bigger problem is my wife carry’s a P320 on the daily. She’s been carrying and shooting it for four years now and no ND as to date.

Sig needs to do more.

1. Mandatory product safety recall. Fix 100% of the affected guns.

2. Rename the new guns to 320.5, 321, or 320 Gen 2.

3. Collaboration with Safariland to design better holsters. Customer exchange program to replace poorly designed holsters with improved design.

Do those things and the uncommanded firings will become as rare as they are for Glock & SW

What did you say about Glocks when they dealt with Glock Leg?

He decided "I would give it a shot"

Lol

Probably just like Boeing and autobus sabotaging each other in the current gun boom

LOL

What aspect of that is unreasonable?

1. OK
2. That is dumb. Manufactures just update with latest parts.
3. Not sigs responsibility, that is the all on the holster manufacturer.

One out of three.

4. Redesigned light rail for proper fitment with Surefire and Streamlight WMLs.

Not a safety issues but damn the existing rail is trash

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