Sig unveils their M4A1/M249 replacement as well as new 6.8x51 ammo. - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Sig unveils their M4A1/M249 replacement as well as new 6.8x51 ammo. (Page 1 of 6)

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:13:44 PM EDT

Looks like we finally get to see the guns and ammo that will be replacing the M4 and M249.

Remember the ammo must achieve Level IV armor penetration at 600M, which explains why it's a 6.8x51 round. The new ammo performs similarly to .270 win short mag.

http://soldiersystems.net/2019/05/23/sofic-19-sig-sauer-exhibits-next-gen-squad-weapons/

The M249 replacement is pushing 3,000+ fps out of a 16" barrel.

The carbine is pushing 2,800+fps out of a 13" barrel.

Ammo size, 6.8x51.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:14:31 PM EDT

[#1]

Barrel life?

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:15:02 PM EDT

[#2]

Joglee thread

M4 isn’t going anywhere

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:15:29 PM EDT

[#3]

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:16:27 PM EDT

[#4]

Since the rifles are on the casting couch...

are they...are they going to fuck 'em?

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:16:53 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
Barrel life?

View Quote

Short. Hope they have a qd barrel option!

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:17:01 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

View Quote

joglee thread and no mention of HK?

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:17:53 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:

joglee thread and no mention of HK?

View Quote

hang in there

maybe SIG will buy HK

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:19:48 PM EDT

[#8]

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:20:22 PM EDT

[#9]

That belt fed is slick looking though...

I'd love it in .308.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:21:12 PM EDT

[#10]

3,000 FPS 6.8mm projectile? That recoil isn't going to be soft.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:22:26 PM EDT

[#11]

Interesting prototypes. I'd like to know more about bullet construction and how it supposedly compromises level IV armor at 600m.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:24:11 PM EDT

[#12]

But are they made in India?

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:25:23 PM EDT

[#13]

I can just imagine how much louder the 249 is gonna be during prolonged bursts.

_

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:28:41 PM EDT

[#14]

What happened to the cased telescoped round?

And why not just go with .270 short win mag instead of inventing a new round that does the same thing?

Man the army can waste money like nobody else... just watch them about-face, follow the Marines and get into the 5.56 HK416 in the end.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:28:46 PM EDT

[#15]

Why not just do 7mm-08?

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:30:57 PM EDT

[#16]

If Sig is making it, it will SUCK! They are all about profits, not quality and performance anymore. German Sig's were the good Sig's. Damn shame what happened to that company.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:34:10 PM EDT

[#17]

Sig has declared a fatwa on shoulders.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:36:20 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
Joglee thread

M4 isn’t going anywhere

View Quote

It is this time. The NGSW is happening no matter how bad the guns are, this is happening.

@GS5414

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:36:51 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

joglee thread and no mention of HK?

View Quote

Hk isn't an option.

FNH, Sig, and Textron.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:37:54 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

Interesting prototypes. I'd like to know more about bullet construction and how it supposedly compromises level IV armor at 600m.

View Quote

They're using a M855A1 type projectile that has tungsten instead of steel, flying at 3,000 fps from a 16" barrel.

Projo weight was last I heard around 125gr.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:40:31 PM EDT

[#21]

If anything, it should have the performance like a 270 Winchester, not a short mag. ASSuming it's a .308 necked down to .277, that's a few grains less powder than a 270, which is *essentially* a 30-06 necked down to .277 (actually a 30/03 necked down, but muh semantics.)

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:41:54 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
What happened to the cased telescoped round?

And why not just go with .270 short win mag instead of inventing a new round that does the same thing?

Man the army can waste money like nobody else... just watch them about-face, follow the Marines and get into the 5.56 HK416 in the end.

View Quote

CT ammo was never part of this development program.

Why use anything to do with .270wsm? Sure, the dimensions are probably similar, but the construction, working pressures, bullet, intended environment, etc., are all different.

Its not like the military cares about the civilian reloading market.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:42:26 PM EDT

[#23]

Should have gone with 7.6 Creedmore.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2019/04/the-new-7-6-creedmoor-best-30-cal-cartridge-ever/

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:42:45 PM EDT

[#24]

I wonder how many rounds people will carry?

Will we go back to 100 round combat loads with 20 round mags?

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:43:57 PM EDT

[#25]

So what happened to the polymer ammo?

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:46:31 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Why not just do 7mm-08?

View Quote

Mmm hmm. I love some 7mm-08.
Great idea, but there’s no money in that...

I.E. Sig, ergo, profit!

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:47:28 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
They're using a M855A1 type projectile that has tungsten instead of steel, flying at 3,000 fps from a 16" barrel.

Projo weight was last I heard around 125gr.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Interesting prototypes. I'd like to know more about bullet construction and how it supposedly compromises level IV armor at 600m.

They're using a M855A1 type projectile that has tungsten instead of steel, flying at 3,000 fps from a 16" barrel.

Projo weight was last I heard around 125gr.

I was wondering if they would do both an A1 style bullet with steel, and a full fledged tungsten round like M995. But maybe you don't need a full length penetrator.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:51:26 PM EDT

[#28]

carbine looks like the MCX, wonder if it's gonna be as chunky as one. My Virtus was damn heavy.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:51:33 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
Barrel life?

View Quote

The made in India firing pin breaks to protect the barrel. It is a feature.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:53:01 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

CT ammo was never part of this development program.

Why use anything to do with .270wsm? Sure, the dimensions are probably similar, but the construction, working pressures, bullet, intended environment, etc., are all different.

Its not like the military cares about the civilian reloading market.

View Quote

It just seems to make more sense to select a preexisting round that fits the army's performance goals and has some R&D behind it already than to reinvent a whole new unproven one. Same with guns... Sig USA must give damn good blowjobs in exchange for contracts these days but they are hardly the "best" at making rifles.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:54:06 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

It just seems to make more sense to select a preexisting round that fits the army's performance goals and has some R&D behind it already than to reinvent a whole new unproven one. Same with guns... Sig USA must give damn good blowjobs in exchange for contracts these days but they are hardly the "best" at making rifles.

View Quote

There is no ammo currently that offers 3,000+ fps from a 16" barrel that uses a 6.8 projo, and also weighs 30% less than 7.62x51.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:54:36 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sig has declared a fatwa on shoulders.

View Quote

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:55:30 PM EDT

[#33]

Is this THE round for the program or will alternatives be submitted by the other suppliers?

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:55:57 PM EDT

[#34]

I thought that ammo is a bi-metallic case to handle the ~ 100k PSI pressure?

ETA reading the PDF it is a steel base, brass cased.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:57:14 PM EDT

[#35]

"Recoil Mitigation System" is included

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:57:43 PM EDT

[#36]

Additionally, the weapon can be set up for left or right feed and loading is as simple as inserting the belt into the cover.

View Quote

I'd be interested to see how the feed system manages this. I would think feeding the disintegrating link belt from either side would present some complicated engineering problems.

Posted: 5/23/2019 12:58:06 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Looks like we finally get to see the guns and ammo that will be replacing the M4 and M249.

Remember the ammo must achieve Level IV armor penetration at 600M, which explains why it's a 6.8x51 round. The new ammo performs similarly to .270 win short mag.

http://soldiersystems.net/2019/05/23/sofic-19-sig-sauer-exhibits-next-gen-squad-weapons/

The M249 replacement is pushing 3,000+ fps out of a 16" barrel.
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/1E700916-3374-4287-A2E9-4D00755B9C5E-440x150.jpeg

The carbine is pushing 2,800+fps out of a 13" barrel.
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/A042D878-1966-4149-B029-B401C1B55C42-440x150.jpeg

Ammo size, 6.8x51.
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/E4B304B7-9459-41FF-9BC8-60B64842E9F2-440x145.jpeg

View Quote

So dumb.

6.8 has shit BC, compared to either side of it’s diameter 6.5mm and 7mm.

The longer you hang onto velocity through BC, the further your armor penetration reach is extended.

How can they be this dumb.

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:00:59 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
I wonder how many rounds people will carry?

Will we go back to 100 round combat loads with 20 round mags?

View Quote

You’re missing the big picture here. With super wizard ammo like this, a 100rd combat load of these is enough to kill 100 commies per soldier, or even more if they’re caught in a column.

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:03:04 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
It just seems to make more sense to select a preexisting round that fits the army's performance goals and has some R&D behind it already than to reinvent a whole new unproven one. Same with guns... Sig USA must give damn good blowjobs in exchange for contracts these days but they are hardly the "best" at making rifles.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

CT ammo was never part of this development program.

Why use anything to do with .270wsm? Sure, the dimensions are probably similar, but the construction, working pressures, bullet, intended environment, etc., are all different.

Its not like the military cares about the civilian reloading market.

It just seems to make more sense to select a preexisting round that fits the army's performance goals and has some R&D behind it already than to reinvent a whole new unproven one. Same with guns... Sig USA must give damn good blowjobs in exchange for contracts these days but they are hardly the "best" at making rifles.

Is there a gun/ammo that shoots armor defeating tungsten rounds already in existence? If there is, it certainly is not chambered in .270wsm.

Thats the only thing that matters, it either already exist, or you just start over. As this is a new bullet, and a new case design, what good does otherwise mimicking .270wsm get you? Nothing.

This is like moaning that a new Porsche hybrid doesn't use a Prius electric motor to save cost. If such a thing matters, then you are not in Porsche hybrid financial territory in the first place.

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:03:57 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

So dumb.

6.8 has shit BC, compared to either side of it’s diameter 6.5mm and 7mm.

The longer you hang onto velocity through BC, the further your armor penetration reach is extended.

How can they be this dumb.

View Quote

Army designed the projectile. Sig only made the case to meet the velocity requirements.

Blame to Army for going 6.8.

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:09:33 PM EDT

[#41]

Hmmmmm. That's sexy

I want a nice AR in that caliber. The Army needs to hurry up and adopt/standardize this so it's widely available.

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:10:17 PM EDT

[#42]

So basically a MK48 and AR10 shooting a special high velocity AP round.

belt fed might have a future but I doubt the M4 is going anywhere. Especially since our current enemies wear sheets instead of body armor.

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:11:43 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:

It just seems to make more sense to select a preexisting round that fits the army's performance goals and has some R&D behind it already than to reinvent a whole new unproven one. Same with guns... Sig USA must give damn good blowjobs in exchange for contracts these days but they are hardly the "best" at making rifles.

View Quote

There is no preexisting round in this size class that can penetrate LIV armor at 600m

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:11:49 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:

Is there a gun/ammo that shoots armor defeating tungsten rounds already in existence? If there is, it certainly is not chambered in .270wsm.

Thats the only thing that matters, it either already exist, or you just start over. As this is a new bullet, and a new case design, what good does otherwise mimicking .270wsm get you? Nothing.

This is like moaning that a new Porsche hybrid doesn't use a Prius electric motor to save cost. If such a thing matters, then you are not in Porsche hybrid financial territory in the first place.

View Quote

I admit I'm not totally up to speed here but the whole point of the exercise is to defeat Russia's body armor and there are plenty of options to get there, not just this one.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around why do this new round, especially when the army seemed to want cased-telescoped ammo so badly? Seems barrel life is bound to suck with such a hot round too.

Hopefully they know what they're doing.

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:15:56 PM EDT

[#45]

eta to a $400 PSA model?

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:16:18 PM EDT

[#46]

This is like the last episode of GOT.

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:16:29 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:

I admit I'm not totally up to speed here but the whole point of the exercise is to defeat Russia's body armor and there are plenty of options to get there, not just this one.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around why do this new round, especially when the army seemed to want cased-telescoped ammo so badly? Seems barrel life is bound to suck with such a hot round too.

Hopefully they know what they're doing.

View Quote

Army developed the projectile and put the requirements for what the ammo must do.

All Sig did was develop the hybrid case.

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:17:55 PM EDT

[#48]

This is certainly retarded enough to have the kind of legs needed for DOD to burn all sorts of funds on for years before the program implodes.

In for the lols.

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:22:32 PM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
So basically a MK48 and AR10 shooting a special high velocity AP round.

belt fed might have a future but I doubt the M4 is going anywhere. Especially since our current enemies wear sheets instead of body armor.

View Quote

They’re finally back to focusing on a peer/near-peer threat. Shooting at haji isn’t as much a worry as someone outfitted with Russian gear.

Posted: 5/23/2019 1:25:08 PM EDT

[#50]

I will take one of each for testing purposes.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Sig unveils their M4A1/M249 replacement as well as new 6.8x51 ammo. (Page 1 of 6)

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