That explains a lot.

Do you think SERC is on the side of the utilities?

And now weve come full circle on it. You not identifying it as critical information, doesnt make it not critical.

Weeds is legal in WA... not too many private grow operations now. It is weird getting RFIs for large grow operations though.

Yes, electric utility. Fully integrated from generation to the customer. Im in engineering.

They are not talking about selling it currently. Its not something id imagine is discussed below the executive level. Im sure it would take comission approval, but after that, it would be as easy as an executive telling an IT person to copy the data and send it off, and 99.9% of the company wouldnt know.

Im bringing it up as a concern here, and it was brought up within the company as a concern.

No clue... we fall under WECC, I just looked up the regulating body for that area

Oh. Engineering. That explains it.

#nostampnoengineer  in case you hold the title of engineer.

I can’t imagine a utility opting to sell individual usage data due to the negative public image issues that’d create. But I’ve always been in a regulated utility where customer satisfaction is key so the Public Service Commission doesn’t get mad.

It would take a significant shift in company politics for it to happen here. Which is why I say we are several generations removed.

I predict smart meters here in IL will ultimately be used to charge different rates per hour.

I can’t speak speak for the rest, but I imagine they are all similar…

SERC seems to be the theoretical engineer types with zero field experience. It can be quite frustrating with some of the current initiatives.

So you will pay market rate for your usage?

#capitalismisawesomeuntilitsucks

I fully agree with you. The state utility commissions govern a lot of what we do, and the first few companies that do it are going to get a lot of bad publicity. The ones after that... not so much bad press, and then it will be common practice.

If I had to pull out my crystal ball, id guess it happens in ERCOT first, as theyre 'deregulated' compared to the other 2 and the companies selling to the end users typically dont own any of the infrastructure while still having access to that usage information... So a lot more "power companies" scrambling to make a profit.

I dont think it will be identifying to the person, but will have individual usage... just like the information sold by FB/google/amazon has had the identifying information scrubbed from the surface.

You can count on it.  As more and more base load plants are shuttered as "green" energy is mandated, we will all be shifted to TOU and demand rates at the residential level.  In the very near future we will be forced to pay what it is actually worth.  When that happens, my long career in the industry will be over because I am not staying around for the shitstorm that will follow.

It’s a huge deal at every utility I’ve worked at if you release customer information. Like you’re getting fired instantly.

Yup customer info or critical company info is an automatic fire at the utility I work for.

If we’re shedding loads it’s thousands of customers probably. Like you said we’re dropping, subs, lines and big loads.

I dont disagree with this either. Its covered in our annual ethics powerpoint. I dont think ive heard of any occurances of people being caught, but I know we have leaks from our company, and security (includes network security) didnt seem to care too much... granted, it was employee information in this case.

It’s literally zero part of my job but we all have to get the if you do this you’re getting fired training.

I believe that in the long-term, the electrical rates a person pays will vary upon the time of day.  And I don't think the rate or time of day will be fixed.

One day, the base rate might be from midnight to 6:23am.  With people waking up, the rate may bump up to a higher rate until, say, 7:39am when people start turning on their computers to start work and rate goes higher again.  This rate will jump up again at 9:02am when temps start rising and more factory equipment comes on line.  By 2:18pm, the rate will be at the highest due to high temps and AC useage.  With a smart meter, they'll know exactly how much energy you're using each minute, so you'll be paying higher rates throughout the day.  You can run your electric clothes dryer at 3pm, but you'll be paying out the a#* for it.

All it will take is for one electrical utility entity to get that approved, and then it will start rolling out to all of the other areas/states.

I mean we have on and off peak rates for a reason.

Around here the smart meters transmit power consumption data after the fact. It does not affect your actual usage ability. The smart thermostat is what controls usage.

If it doesn’t have any PID I don’t see it being any different than what can be gleaned from my phone, wife’s vehicle or credit card.

What’s kinda amusing but not is y’all are worried about power outages due to a smart meter.

I’m worried about power outages due to the state of the global supply chain.

I prefer my current flat rate for power. Wide adoption of near real time reporting from meters will allow for variable rates.

I think it will also be used as a way to delay the rebuild/upgrade of systems... granted, this is also potentially a commission hurdle.

Its cheaper to have people use less electricity than it is to generate and distribute new electricity.

Lead times are insane and not even predictable at this point

As in my previous post, that is already a option in my area.

I dont know what brand you are referencing, but the ones we use either are the rc/dc type or the ones you manually boot off, unless you install a load limiter.........never heard of the ones we use having that capability

Nope, they're whole sale cutting essential services to people because they refuse to or are prohibited by politicians from properly maintaining the easements along those power lines.
And who pays, the common citizen.

Sell citizens essential services, make them reliant on them, prohibit alternatives, then pull the rug out from under them.

Oh I can predict them…

Another 2 weeks.

But if you have an old school meter on hand, you can just pull the smart one and insert your in its place.

Better hope you don’t need any transformers. We’re scavenging parts from less critical subs, lines.

Maybe California is too big to manage as a single entity.

How does gun ownership consume electrical power or is detectable by a smart meter?

So let's worry about credit card companies and FedEx/UPS working together to annotate us.

2 weeks is about the notice we get that delivery has been pushed back months lol

One of our longtime, state-side, suppliers just dropped our annual allotment to zero. Currently looking to source them from South Korea for the meantime. Havent heard how that trip went yet though.

Because citizens in their private homes are less important than new car lots, Walmarts, Starbucks, office buildings, sports stadiums, government offices...

You could turn off one office building or 1000 homes.
Maybe you give the office a heads up they need to work from home that day, and you don't even disrupt the business.
Same deal with government workers.
But nope, gotta fuck the little guy first.
Why?
Because he doesn't matter, and he doesn't have the resources to fight and he's inconsequential anyway.

GD already did this thread; CO somewhere I think it was

Commercial and industrial customers actually pay the bills and subsidize residential customers.

So there is that.

Tell me you don’t know how it works without telling me you don’t know how it works.

In a decentralized electricity market, super smart meters will play another crucial role – coordinating dynamic pricing that encourages consumers to adapt consumption and trading behaviour in a way that balances the local grid, using blockchain P2P trading.

As we are decentralizing electricity production and decentralizing electricity markets, we also need to decentralize computational power.

That is straight from WEF.  THE PLAN IS REAL-TIME.  Price changes as demand changes, and "encouraging" consumers to adapt use.

God, people need to see the future world they're building and announcing.

Yes! That's why I've asked ... five times ... what/how could my shower data be exploited against me in any way by the power company?

I've done this for decades - you determine the value of the data from the owner. I am the owner of my shower data and really don't care about it at all, other people are making a completely unsupported claim that their shower data is somehow important. I'm not doubting that, I'm asking someone to get a word or two behind why.

Because I live in a world with a metric fuck ton of bigger invasions to my privacy that don't require piles of possible slippery slope to be questionably (six times now) valuable. Thinks that are happening right now. So that's why there's four pages of me asking those raging against smart meters to share with me your concerns. There's real threats with grown ups debating really interesting (and true) privacy subjects ... and nobody has stumbled upon the leaking of shower data. We know how to exploit pizza ordering and the Pentagon now takes steps to hide that. Yeah, I think that's a standard lesson in every DoD IT security course - pizza ordering. But I have never heard of an exploit on laundry, shower, or sleep data.

Why wouldn't you BMSMB care why your shower, laundry, sleep times are available to the power company? What's the most heinous thing that could be done if the power company knew that without a doubt you were doing the laundry or taking a shower? Now what is the likelihood that the power company would do that. And finally what is the financial impact of that most heinous thing. Once you have that now do the same thing with cell phone ownership. Car ownership. Using a public DNS ... and on and on. Next you do rack and stack the treats, tempered by the possibility while looking at the financial impact.

Event: Radio active satellite falling on my house. Likelihood 0.0000001% per hundred years. Impact: tremendous death!
Event: Mice eating the wires on my tractor. Likelihood 50% per year. Impact: hours of labor fixing the wires.

With limited resources do you start building a shelter over the house to protect from falling satellites or buy some poison bait for the mice?

Risk assessment 101 which is why I asked for step one, what's the value of the data to the owners with me being a fellow owner getting to vote too. I'm asking because of all the money you spend on my education and training across 40 years I got smart enough to know I don't know everything. I'm repeatedly asking the same questions over-and-over to find answers. It's more that possible that you know something I don't know. That's why I asked someone how many years they had in network management when they started talking like a network manager. I was trying to assess their message's value.

Trust op, listen to the mob, trust the smart functionality introduced by corporations you can trust, corporations directed by people who know what is best for you and will save you from yourself, save the you from climate change.

That is a safe prediction since ComEd has offered time of day rates for at least two years here. I used their calculator and it did not make sense for me.  You would save money if you worked a 9-5 job. I am retired and generally have the TV on when I am home. I also have the AC on during the summer so I don’t want to set a higher temperature. If you were at work, you could let it get warmer and use a programmable thermostat to cool your house before you get home.

You know the idea behind time of day pricing is to balance the load. I don’t work for a utility but my understanding is baseline usage is the cheapest to supply. It costs a lot more for the peeking units. If utilities could supply the same amount of power at all times, they would not need the expensive peeking equipment.

Youve ignored the examples, but heres another...

I piss someone off at work in a scenario where I have a smart meter... they go look up when im showering, and determine thats a good time to attack me... or I brag about some cool new thing I bought. They figure out good times to rob me
..

Or someone who works for a power company starts stalking a girl... they then know when shes not home withouy any risk of being by her house,or when shes showering normally, all from a computer.

Lets get distopian again, government agents decide they want to raid me for something, theyre now able to build a pretty good profile of my normal activities without the risk of detection.

Again, organized crime gets this data and they can scope out easy targets all without the risk of being physically on site.

What in the absolute fuck did you tag me in, this thread is an absolute shitshow.

Can someone just press the button and empty the nuclear inventory already?

I am sure the utility won’t know what you did.

There might also be a law against tampering with their equipment. At the very least, the utility will bill you for damages and might not service your home.

Wait smart meters are bad because if you make someone mad they will know when you’re naked and vulnerable?

Do you not have a shower gun?

He wanted specific examples of why someone having access to your power usage could be a bad thing beyond the basic inavsion of privacy.

My bigger issue is the eventual turn to variable rates.

I have a smart meter and I was originally paranoid and suspicious of them and wanted to wrap it in a faraday bag as best as possible.  I've since given up and accepted the pulsed EMF lilly wave mind control signals from the power lines themselves which are far more powerful.  '

We must have very similar jobs.

None of those are even likely compared to other, much easier means of gathering the information needed to abuse.

How granular do you think the data is?

Are they home or did they leave a crock pot going?

The overwhelming amount of energy usage is going to come from things that aren’t tied to a scheduled, and if anything, the HVAC being somewhat weather dependent is going to change the calculus even more.