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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:28:38 PM EDT
[#1]
I like it, but good luck with that. Dem unions.
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:31:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Something needs to change. My wife works 70 hours a week for 10.5 months for less than she would make at a Buc'ees stocking Beaver Nuggets.
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:32:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Outcome based pay.
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:34:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: The solution may be as simple as it is politically unpopular. First, end teacher pensions. Most taxpayers don't have pensions in the 21st century, so it makes sense to end pensions for public servants who work for the taxpayers. Use that money for direct teacher pay instead, and allow the teachers to save for their own retirement, much the same as the taxpayers paying teachers' salaries. Second, go to year-round school. Then society can justify paying teachers for 12 months of work. If two to four weeks of vacation is enough for taxpayers, it's enough for public servants who work for the taxpayers. There are other steps that can be taken, but these two are simple common sense. Unfortunately, that makes them difficult to implement when unions and government bureaucrats are involved. No private citizen has the power to implement that pipe dream, so it will never happen. However, our friends came up with their own personal approach by homeschooling their kids in order to protect them from the filthy stinking cesspools of woke propaganda the public schools have become. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:35:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Outcome based pay. Meritocracy, yes! There are/were schools that ran year-round. The year was broken into four sessions. Students would attend for three of the four sessions, so they would get their "summer vacation". That "summer vacation" is pretty intimately entwined in our society. Although not often used for farming needs, summer travel is huge business. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:37:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Did you ever think teachers should be paid for a full year if they have to work for a full year? Just about all your teachers would leave if you mandated a full year but did not compensate for it…
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:38:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Some areas/states pay poorly but others, they get paid well and they will still cry poverty. Heard that myself way to often thought Mi pays well. I just smile, nod my head, and tell them ''I know where you live on the lake.'' That tends to shut them the hell up pretty quickly. You aren't living on the lake in a nice house if you are poverty level paid.
And few people are going to net the pension many of them get, and if they get into administration, it's a dirty little secret how much most make yearly. ''It's for the kids'' is the biggest pile of horse shit ever thought up, it really means ''we are going to financially F you silly and try to make you feel good about it.'' |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:38:56 PM EDT
[#8]
The "teacher pay problem" is teacher union propaganda.
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:39:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: The solution may be as simple as it is politically unpopular. First, end teacher pensions. Most taxpayers don't have pensions in the 21st century, so it makes sense to end pensions for public servants who work for the taxpayers. Use that money for direct teacher pay instead, and allow the teachers to save for their own retirement, much the same as the taxpayers paying teachers' salaries. Second, go to year-round school. Then society can justify paying teachers for 12 months of work. If two to four weeks of vacation is enough for taxpayers, it's enough for public servants who work for the taxpayers. There are other steps that can be taken, but these two are simple common sense. Unfortunately, that makes them difficult to implement when unions and government bureaucrats are involved. Unions...never happen. Keep in mind, that I don't know of any teacher that gets 12-month SALARY. They're paid 10-month salary, and just have it stretched out over 12 months. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:39:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Something needs to change. My wife works 70 hours a week for 10.5 months for less than she would make at a Buc'ees stocking Beaver Nuggets. I don't believe that. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:42:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Conventional schooling is harmful enough without making it year round.
Eliminate useless admin positions and stop wasting money on a bunch of unnecessary classroom tech. While we’re at it, the younger grades don’t need to be full day. You could do them in shifts with fewer teachers. But that would require parents to stop using school as free daycare. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:43:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't believe that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Something needs to change. My wife works 70 hours a week for 10.5 months for less than she would make at a Buc'ees stocking Beaver Nuggets. I don't believe that. I don't understand why she's not stocking beaver nuggets myself if the pay is better. "I've worked in the private sector, they expect results..............'' |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:46:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: The solution may be as simple as it is politically unpopular. First, end teacher pensions. Most taxpayers don't have pensions in the 21st century, so it makes sense to end pensions for public servants who work for the taxpayers. Use that money for direct teacher pay instead, and allow the teachers to save for their own retirement, much the same as the taxpayers paying teachers' salaries. Second, go to year-round school. Then society can justify paying teachers for 12 months of work. If two to four weeks of vacation is enough for taxpayers, it's enough for public servants who work for the taxpayers. There are other steps that can be taken, but these two are simple common sense. Unfortunately, that makes them difficult to implement when unions and government bureaucrats are involved. Districts are typically top heavy with a bunch of highly paid "administrators." |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:47:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't believe that. Buc'ees pays well, and even has a better insurance package than the HMO Blue Cross the district offers. She got a dual degree to specifically work with severe and profound special needs kids. Being a teacher has never paid well, and she never went in expecting to make more than a small fraction of what I do, but she started at 38k in 2006 and makes 52k now. She's lost against inflation every year. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:47:49 PM EDT
[#15]
70 hr/wk * 4.3 wk/mo * 10.5 mo/yr = 3,160 hours/year
$52k/yr --> $16/hr What's missing from the hourly wage evaluation is the toll taken by working 70 hours/wk. Add in the kids' issues; add in the parents' issues,... it adds up. Teachers, real teachers, are under-valued and under-appreciated in our society. Because of that, you get crappy teachers in the schools. Eliminating tenure and starting merit-based pay will go a long way to solving that probem. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:47:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unions...never happen. Keep in mind, that I don't know of any teacher that gets 12-month SALARY. They're paid 10-month salary, and just have it stretched out over 12 months. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The solution may be as simple as it is politically unpopular. First, end teacher pensions. Most taxpayers don't have pensions in the 21st century, so it makes sense to end pensions for public servants who work for the taxpayers. Use that money for direct teacher pay instead, and allow the teachers to save for their own retirement, much the same as the taxpayers paying teachers' salaries. Second, go to year-round school. Then society can justify paying teachers for 12 months of work. If two to four weeks of vacation is enough for taxpayers, it's enough for public servants who work for the taxpayers. There are other steps that can be taken, but these two are simple common sense. Unfortunately, that makes them difficult to implement when unions and government bureaucrats are involved. Unions...never happen. Keep in mind, that I don't know of any teacher that gets 12-month SALARY. They're paid 10-month salary, and just have it stretched out over 12 months. That is correct. Teachers have contracts that span the school year. You can opt to be paid per contract year or per entire year…teachers choice. The total amount is still the same. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:48:26 PM EDT
[#17]
You think you've got a teacher shortage now? Go to year-round schools and watch your shortage increase. I realize lots of teachers are raging leftists, but don't make the mistake of thinking that ALL of them are. For those saying the underpaid teacher is a myth, I just reached the top of the pay scale at 67,000. It took 23 years to get here. Just this past year we've had wiener dog back surgery, Car repair, and plumbing issues. For the first time in decades, I did not need credit cards to solve any of those issues. It felt good.
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:48:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't believe that. I don't either. My wife and most her friends are teachers, also my aunt. If people really wanted to improve teachers lives make corporal punishment great again. These kids are fng animals, I have no idea how these ladies put up with them. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:50:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buc'ees pays well, and even has a better insurance package than the HMO Blue Cross the district offers. She got a dual degree to specifically work with severe and profound special needs kids. Being a teacher has never paid well, and she never went in expecting to make more than a small fraction of what I do, but she started at 38k in 2006 and makes 52k now. She's lost against inflation every year. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't believe that. Buc'ees pays well, and even has a better insurance package than the HMO Blue Cross the district offers. She got a dual degree to specifically work with severe and profound special needs kids. Being a teacher has never paid well, and she never went in expecting to make more than a small fraction of what I do, but she started at 38k in 2006 and makes 52k now. She's lost against inflation every year. Nothing easy to this idea. I knew a teacher with similar professional pedigree, she became a verbal therapist, and is doing great. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:52:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You think you've got a teacher shortage now? Go to year-round schools and watch your shortage increase. I realize lots of teachers are raging leftists, but don't make the mistake of thinking that ALL of them are. For those saying the underpaid teacher is a myth, I just reached the top of the pay scale at 67,000. It took 23 years to get here. Just this past year we've had wiener dog back surgery, Car repair, and plumbing issues. For the first time in decades, I did not need credit cards to solve any of those issues. It felt good. Do you have a pension? If so, [not being a smart ass, I'd like to see what the after retirement compensation is to compare that, especially if one also funds another retirement fund] how much is it? How many years to teach before it maxes out and you can retire? |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:54:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Something needs to change. My wife works 70 hours a week for 10.5 months for less than she would make at a Buc'ees stocking Beaver Nuggets. Why not go work somewhere else then? I know it sucks to change careers, but if it’s truly that bad it doesn’t seem like it would be worth it to stay. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:54:13 PM EDT
[#22]
As someone with close relatives who are teachers, they work a years worth in 10 months, if not more it’s not a 8-5 job. It’s more like a 730-930 job. While I hate unions, teachers need the break just as kids do. Also, teachers do work more year round than you think. They work weeks after school ends and start weeks before it begins.
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:56:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "teacher pay problem" is teacher union propaganda. Exactly Fuck public teachers Abolsh public ed |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:56:37 PM EDT
[#24]
As a full time teacher myself, I really wish this myth of being paid for the summer off would just FUCKEN stop.
I get paid for 12 months when I work only 10 months because I spread my pay out to cover the months I am not working. We should just allow AI to start teaching, I mean some of you guys are such amazing penny pinchers, that I bet if you stuck a lump of coal in some of your asses, a cheap diamond might come out of it.
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:57:35 PM EDT
[#25]
3 reasons I teach...
June July August   |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:58:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buc'ees pays well, and even has a better insurance package than the HMO Blue Cross the district offers. She got a dual degree to specifically work with severe and profound special needs kids. Being a teacher has never paid well, and she never went in expecting to make more than a small fraction of what I do, but she started at 38k in 2006 and makes 52k now. She's lost against inflation every year. Look at getting a TRS estimate of her vested pension. Is she in the type of school district that doesn't pay social security withholding? Run the numbers with a professional and see what they come out. Compare staying as a trs annuiant vs. a regular employee with social security and a 401k in the long run. @Its_Raining_Lead |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 4:59:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Full voucher system, Swedish style.
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:01:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Outcome based pay. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:02:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Pay depends on the area they are teaching. Los Angeles pays their teachers quite a bit, with really good benefits. Idaho does not. That being said, higher teacher pay does not equal a higher quality of education.
A move away from per attending student pay, to merit pay with various levels of success (not just test scores) would be better than what we currently have. Removing the students that don't want to be there is the real answer. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:03:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 70 hr/wk * 4.3 wk/mo * 10.5 mo/yr = 3,160 hours/year $52k/yr --> $16/hr What's missing from the hourly wage evaluation is the toll taken by working 70 hours/wk. Add in the kids' issues; add in the parents' issues,... it adds up. Teachers, real teachers, are under-valued and under-appreciated in our society. Because of that, you get crappy teachers in the schools. Eliminating tenure and starting merit-based pay will go a long way to solving that probem. Where are teachers working 70 hour weeks?!? That's insane. My wife used to be a public school teacher. Her hours were basically 7:30 to 3:30. The only teachers that had to bring work home were the ones that spent their scheduled planning period gossiping instead of working. My wife left the school to homeschool our children mostly because she saw how bad it is from the inside (and we're districted for a "good" school). Also, a typical teacher contract is like 185 days, so 8 hrs/day x 185 days = 1480 hours per year. $52k / 1480 = $35/hr Teacher pay isn't as terrible as many of them make it out to be. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:05:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buc'ees pays well, and even has a better insurance package than the HMO Blue Cross the district offers. She got a dual degree to specifically work with severe and profound special needs kids. Being a teacher has never paid well, and she never went in expecting to make more than a small fraction of what I do, but she started at 38k in 2006 and makes 52k now. She's lost against inflation every year. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't believe that. Buc'ees pays well, and even has a better insurance package than the HMO Blue Cross the district offers. She got a dual degree to specifically work with severe and profound special needs kids. Being a teacher has never paid well, and she never went in expecting to make more than a small fraction of what I do, but she started at 38k in 2006 and makes 52k now. She's lost against inflation every year. Them HS stadiums aren’t going to pay for themselves. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:06:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not go work somewhere else then? I know it sucks to change careers, but if it’s truly that bad it doesn’t seem like it would be worth it to stay. She has kids for years at a time and she loves working with them. Like I said, she makes a fraction of what I do and she has a personal preference to keep working with kids. She has no interest in stocking shelves, or getting a speech pathology masters that would result in working with less children than she does now. She has several coworkers that work just as hard and love the kids just as much, but have to decide between being able to live on a paycheck or do something else. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:07:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "teacher pay problem" is teacher union propaganda. Teachers in my county get paid far above average right out of school. Over $30 an hour in a county where average pay amounts to 13 an hour. They have it great here. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:08:17 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buc'ees pays well, and even has a better insurance package than the HMO Blue Cross the district offers. She got a dual degree to specifically work with severe and profound special needs kids. Being a teacher has never paid well, and she never went in expecting to make more than a small fraction of what I do, but she started at 38k in 2006 and makes 52k now. She's lost against inflation every year. Change careers to make better pay? If she’s unwilling to do anything else… is she really being underpaid? |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:08:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Outcome based pay. That means that everyone gets an A. Want to fix the problem? - outlaw teachers unions - state level and state controlled test results academic results. Reward teachers that do a good job and fire the ones that suck - bad behaving students are expelled and its on the parents to educate these turds or send them to private schools - school voucher program so parents can send kids to the school of their choice - outlaw teachers unions (out law all public sector unions) - no tenure |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:10:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you do that you'll get kids that can pass a test but don't really know anything. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Outcome based pay. We already have that |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:10:10 PM EDT
[#37]
There is no teacher pay problem. Average salary here is 62K. Not bad for what is essentially, a part time job with full bennies. Thats 13k MORE than EMS is getting.
I can see merit/performance pay on the other hand. Let the good teachers reap those numbers. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:10:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: The solution may be as simple as it is politically unpopular. First, end teacher pensions. Most taxpayers don't have pensions in the 21st century, so it makes sense to end pensions for public servants who work for the taxpayers. Use that money for direct teacher pay instead, and allow the teachers to save for their own retirement, much the same as the taxpayers paying teachers' salaries. Second, go to year-round school. Then society can justify paying teachers for 12 months of work. If two to four weeks of vacation is enough for taxpayers, it's enough for public servants who work for the taxpayers. There are other steps that can be taken, but these two are simple common sense. Unfortunately, that makes them difficult to implement when unions and government bureaucrats are involved. Teachers pay their own pensions. They don’t pay 12 months. They divide their salary by 12. Usually they are payed for 190 days work. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:13:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Change careers to make better pay? If she’s unwilling to do anything else… is she really being underpaid? Sure. And when every special needs teacher quits for the same reason? There is an argument for the abolishment of public schools, but you need to have a viable replacement at least proposed. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:15:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buc'ees pays well, and even has a better insurance package than the HMO Blue Cross the district offers. She got a dual degree to specifically work with severe and profound special needs kids. Being a teacher has never paid well, and she never went in expecting to make more than a small fraction of what I do, but she started at 38k in 2006 and makes 52k now. She's lost against inflation every year. If your wife got a job at Buc'ees, she'd see how good she had it and regret leaving that cushy teaching gig. Teachers make about the median household income in my area working 8 hours a day for 9 months. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:16:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure. And when every special needs teacher quits for the same reason? There is an argument for the abolishment of public schools, but you need to have a viable replacement at least proposed. Specail needs teachers don't quit becasue of pay. They quit becuase the administration constantly screws them over. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:16:46 PM EDT
[#42]
How about Texas just stops building $50 million football stadiums at every high school. That should clear up the budget.
Also I want to take my kids on vacation, do projects and teach them life lessons during the summer. No fucking way would I live where some dipshit school admin thought we should take summer away from kids. They tried that in my school district in TX, a month before school started they announced they’re doing 4 days a week and every other Friday….sometimes. They have some stupid schedule that is not consistent. But now it’s like one month summers. Sold my house the next month and moved. Who cares if they get a pension. They should pay more and higher better teachers. Taxes in Texas are plenty high they ended up with a $30 billion surplus last year. It’s not like Texas is using that money to fix infrastructure. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:17:24 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote History |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:17:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: The solution may be as simple as it is politically unpopular. First, end teacher pensions. Most taxpayers don't have pensions in the 21st century, so it makes sense to end pensions for public servants who work for the taxpayers. Use that money for direct teacher pay instead, and allow the teachers to save for their own retirement, much the same as the taxpayers paying teachers' salaries. Second, go to year-round school. Then society can justify paying teachers for 12 months of work. If two to four weeks of vacation is enough for taxpayers, it's enough for public servants who work for the taxpayers. There are other steps that can be taken, but these two are simple common sense. Unfortunately, that makes them difficult to implement when unions and government bureaucrats are involved. My wife is a high school English teacher and she would agree OP. They don't get paid paid jack all in ND, she has some seniority and gets about 40k/year. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:21:36 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You think you've got a teacher shortage now? Go to year-round schools and watch your shortage increase. I realize lots of teachers are raging leftists, but don't make the mistake of thinking that ALL of them are. For those saying the underpaid teacher is a myth, I just reached the top of the pay scale at 67,000. It took 23 years to get here. Just this past year we've had wiener dog back surgery, Car repair, and plumbing issues. For the first time in decades, I did not need credit cards to solve any of those issues. It felt good. seems like a pretty shitty union. how much are the union dues? mines $850 a quarter. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:23:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meritocracy, yes! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Outcome based pay. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:23:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Something needs to change. My wife works 70 hours a week for 10.5 months for less than she would make at a Buc'ees stocking Beaver Nuggets. Grew up with educators. Doubt. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:23:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "teacher pay problem" is teacher union propaganda. Seriously, my BIL and sister make 135,000 a year each teaching 5th and kindergarten. Thats the equivalent of $86.00 an hour for the 40 hour a week worker. This doesn't include the value of the bennies. they work 9 months of the year, have health care and retirement. What is this teacher pay issue? |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:25:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 70 hr/wk * 4.3 wk/mo * 10.5 mo/yr = 3,160 hours/year $52k/yr --> $16/hr What's missing from the hourly wage evaluation is the toll taken by working 70 hours/wk. Add in the kids' issues; add in the parents' issues,... it adds up. Teachers, real teachers, are under-valued and under-appreciated in our society. Because of that, you get crappy teachers in the schools. Eliminating tenure and starting merit-based pay will go a long way to solving that probem. Now do the same equation with 35 hours...a much more realistic average hours worked....then by .75 for the percentage of the year worked. Now we can have an honest conversation. |
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Posted: 6/24/2023 5:25:39 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Full voucher system, Swedish style. Parent pay system, capitalist style. |
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