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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:23:54 AM EDT
[#1]
My understanding of them is they are practical race guns, instead of just race guns.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:25:12 AM EDT
[#2]
I think its marketing, used to be considered a race gun. Now they are saying it is a everyday range gun and or ccw depending on the model.
I also think they figured out how to make them work right all the time. That said I want a XC |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:26:28 AM EDT
[#3]
both
they are different in that they work and work very, very reliably AND they are well marketed ETA - full disclosure ... I only get to shoot my friends when we go to the range together or if he comes over I always ask him to bring it. Why haven't I bought one yet ... I have no fucking idea |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:31:46 AM EDT
[#4]
STI was pretty much competition guns, designed around USPSA and 3 gun with some IDPA thrown in. Their smaller ‘officer’ size models never really took off. When new management took over they decided to change their direction of business moving to high end ‘law enforcement’ and people who like that type of gun. In a way it was a good move in that the people who the ‘LE’ type gun don’t shoot them as much or tinker with the guns as competition shooters do.
STI would warranty guns that were pretty well worked by other gunsmiths/competitors or have been shot a lot. I shoot my STI pistols between 500-1,000 rounds a month, year after year it is a lot of rounds compared to most shooters. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:42:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Well marketed to IG “influencers” and gun pages. They went from being the biggest name in competition pistols to being a “look what I can afford” Gucci gun with their rebrand.
I’ve owned and shot STIs and I’m sure the Staccatos are still good guns. But they’re selling a brand now, and they abandoned the competition shooters that really built their company. They may be raking in money hand over fist, but it’s still disappointing to see them dump the competitive shooting market. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:42:55 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:48:06 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well marketed to IG “influencers” and gun pages. They went from being the biggest name in competition pistols to being a “look what I can afford” Gucci gun with their rebrand. I’ve owned and shot STIs and I’m sure the Staccatos are still good guns. But they’re selling a brand now, and they abandoned the competition shooters that really built their company. They may be raking in money hand over fist, but it’s still disappointing to see them dump the competitive shooting market. They’re not alone in leaving the competitive shooting market How many pistols does sell Staccato sell a year? I bet there are some Glock *dealers* that sell more Glocks in one store. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:50:03 AM EDT
[#8]
STI has always been an amazing company. They shifted focus from competition (relatively small market) to self defense (huge market).
From my perspective (30+ years experience deeply into the self defense world and competition): The Staccato guns are gems and worth more than they cost. Pardon the carry grit. 
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:57:26 AM EDT
[#9]
I've had it explained to me by people in the know, but I didn't pay close enough attention to be able to say all that they did.
Big thing with the Staccato is that they redesigned the magazines in such a way that you don't have to constantly tune them to get them to run reliably any more. Magazines were the major weak point that was keeping the STIs from crossing over to the self defense & service pistol worlds. Now that that's been fixed they've really hit a stride. Now 2011's are becoming a favored pistol for competition and practical shooters. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 11:59:06 AM EDT
[#10]
I think they've rebranded into an expensive any mans gun for shooting/SD/LEO. They're competition market was small. I always said I couldn't play in the NFL or NBA, but I could go to any major match and shoot with the top shooters in the world. I'm not sure what models they offer now that fit into the competition realm, but I'm sure they're overall sales are way up to the SD market. They can't keep C2's, P's & even XC's on the selves.
They also have advanced & refined their product. The mag issue was ignored forever. I think they actually have a mag that works without it being tuned by a professional. And honestly in todays market were everyone has a ton of money, if you're really into the games, you'll probably step into an Infinity or Atlas. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 12:01:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: but it’s still disappointing to see them dump the competitive shooting market. Well some of the comps have done things that handy cap a 1911 any way. IDPA is one, the SSP restrictions almost read as if they looked at a higher end 1911 and went what can we do to restrict this. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 12:08:48 PM EDT
[#12]
They are better than the guns used to be, for sure.
Who cares if they ditched the competition market? It’s small and they sell every gun they can make to the customers they are seeking now. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 12:10:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: My understanding of them is they are practical race guns, instead of just race guns. Quoted: Well marketed to IG “influencers” and gun pages. They went from being the biggest name in competition pistols to being a “look what I can afford” Gucci gun with their rebrand. I’ve owned and shot STIs and I’m sure the Staccatos are still good guns. But they’re selling a brand now, and they abandoned the competition shooters that really built their company. They may be raking in money hand over fist, but it’s still disappointing to see them dump the competitive shooting market. Quoted: @WhiskersTheCat The C is a carry gun The P is a duty gun The XC is a competition gun. That's it really. I love my P but I've always liked full size pistols, and I don't want to carry a competition gun. So the P is a great fit for me.  
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Posted: 10/20/2021 12:17:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Love my STI Tac 5.0. Factory mags were a go. Great gun. Became my everyday carry gun.
Problem, No one offered a 2011 cut for RDS under $3k. Staccato comes along and offers the P Dawson Universal Optic for a fuzz over 2 k and DLC finish. Loved it enough to buy another for my wife. They even called after the sale to get my opinion and input on the gun and its performance. Never had that happen before. I think they're on the right track. I also don't think they were ready for the onslaught of orders from its release. They were slammed and had some trouble getting guns out. I waited some time for my first, less for the second. Those two guns were optionless, now you have options. I think in time we'll see some more options/guns geared toward the gun games. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 12:31:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think its marketing, used to be considered a race gun. Now they are saying it is a everyday range gun and or ccw depending on the model. I also think they figured out how to make them work right all the time. That said I want a XC 2011 magazines were hit or miss for a long time. STI figured out how to make excellent and reliable magazines and that opened things up beyond USPSA guys who were willing to pay gunsmiths to tune mags. I agree it is marketing. A good 2011 pistol will ruin you for shooting anything else though. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 12:37:50 PM EDT
[#16]
They went through the effort of getting tons of major holster makers to make carry and duty holsters for them, which makes them actual options for many people who otherwise would only be able to have one as a toy.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 12:41:53 PM EDT
[#17]
They were very successful with their rebranding.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 12:44:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've had it explained to me by people in the know, but I didn't pay close enough attention to be able to say all that they did. Big thing with the Staccato is that they redesigned the magazines in such a way that you don't have to constantly tune them to get them to run reliably any more. Magazines were the major weak point that was keeping the STIs from crossing over to the self defense & service pistol worlds. Now that that's been fixed they've really hit a stride. Now 2011's are becoming a favored pistol for competition and practical shooters. The magazine issue described above cannot be overstated as a significant improvement. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:00:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: STI has always been an amazing company. They shifted focus from competition (relatively small market) to self defense (huge market). Competition handguns are certainly a small market, but the market for $2k self defense pistols isn’t exactly huge either. Bigger, probably. “Huge”, not really. They seem like a big company because they’re plastered all over social media now. When they were building competition guns, they had a yearlong backlog most of the time. I’m sure they’ve increased production capacity, but it’s not like they weren’t selling all they could build for competition shooters. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:21:19 PM EDT
[#20]
New management not only rebranded the company, but reoriented the goals of the company which included tweaking the guns to work out of the box for the defensive/LE market.
STIs approach was to sell a gun that mostly worked bc they expected pretty much every one to be reworked anyways. When STI was bought by a retired Marine, he wanted to take the inherent advantages of the 2011 and make it an out of the box quality defensive firearm instead of just a base for a custom competition guns. Did this then rebranded as Staccato bc of the "STI" reputation as a finicky competition gun. Now people know Staccato as a high end defensive/LE factory gun. Side note, there was a brief attempt to make the STI 2011 the 1911 replacement for CAG. And, by all accounts STI wanted nothing to do with it as they didn't want that market. Interesting how things can change. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:24:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They went through the effort of getting tons of major holster makers to make carry and duty holsters for them, which makes them actual options for many people who otherwise would only be able to have one as a toy. This is a huge, overlooked thing. If your want your new high speed pistol to be the next big LE gun (and you're not Glock or SIG) you are going to have to pay for the holster development. STI/Staccato seems to have paid for the design of the Safariland and Blackhawk T-series so that duty holsters (including RDS/light versions) would be available as soon as the guns were on the market. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:25:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Seems like a good idea. Take a double stack 9 mm 1911, make it reliable, give it the features that everyone wants like RDS cut, light rail, etc.
But that price… |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:29:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems like a good idea. Take a double stack 9 mm 1911, make it reliable, give it the features that everyone wants like RDS cut, light rail, etc. But that price… Totally worth it dude. Totally worth it. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:31:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems like a good idea. Take a double stack 9 mm 1911, make it reliable, give it the features that everyone wants like RDS cut, light rail, etc. But that price… They are fantastic guns. If you have the cash they are worth it. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:42:33 PM EDT
[#25]
I really don't know how many actual complete pistols they sold annually as STI.
I, like hundreds (maybe thousands) of others, bought an STI frame kit and had a gunsmith build me a pistol (in .45, of all things). Gen 1 magazines SUCKED OUT LOUD. Several gunsmiths made a name for themselves and their shops / brands as guys who tuned STI magazines, and many made components to do so (bodies, followers, springs, and base pads). Staccato employees bought the factory, and new leadership was brilliant in dropping most options to concentrate on producing a single platform and caliber (9mm) to work close to flawlessly -- probably not too hard, since .40 was going away as a police cartridge, and I don't think they ever got .45 to work right in a double stack. Once they got 9mm to work correctly with a factory magazine that needs no additional work or tuning, they chose to market it as a cop gun (cops being cheap bastards -- but if the department's buying, the gun works, has a better trigger than anything else on the market, and scores go up -- it made an easier sell). Once big-name departments (the US Marshals and LAPD) bought and approved them for work and off-duty guns (with great individual officer discounts for a pistol, multiple spare mags, and holsters) the Staccato brand took off. Retail customers took notice and, like with the M16 and M4, lots of folks want what the Action Guys are using, and are willing to pay close to (or more than) market price. Demand went insane, supply went down. USPSA competitors are all powty-face because Staccato is neglecting the niche market shooters who built their original brand -- buyers willing to drop a wheelbarrow full of money for a gun in a competition-only caliber, guaranteed to sell dozens a year. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:46:31 PM EDT
[#26]
good marketing.
for a $3k gun, it is nice, but its still kind of meh to me. It also locked up with a broken main spring after like 200 rounds so Im not exactly singing their praises. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:48:08 PM EDT
[#27]
So you don’t have to send the mags to Dawson to get tuned anymore?
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:00:40 PM EDT
[#28]
I plan to get a Staccato early next year most likely, I do wish they kept making 1911s. The one I handled was one of the best fitting 1911s I have ever seen.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:01:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Yes, it's a lot of marketing. They (Staccato) gave away a ton of these things for free. Completely saturated the influencer space with free pistols. While it's a fact that they work and work well so do a vast number of other pistols.
What's funny to me is the number of internet pipe hitters who previously swore no self defense gun should have a manual safety and now those same people are extolling the "positive click" of the manual safety on these lol. It's just perfect at EVERYTHING. Staccato are great pistols if that's what you're looking for. But no, they did not render everything else obsolete. I don't see the 2011 making a huge impression outside the internet scene tbh not anymore than it did 20 years ago. It's had some adoption on the duty level but I suspect the glow will wear off when the marketing dies down. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:02:43 PM EDT
[#30]
My STI Spartan (first gen) is easily the best value handgun that I own. I think I paid $500 for it. RIA frames and STI fire control parts. Trigger is fantastic and its the most reliable 1911 I've ever seen. I've taken a few multi day pistol courses with it without cleaning it. I did replace the POS adjustable sights with Harrisons.
I'd definitely buy a Staccato on that experience alone. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:08:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you don’t have to send the mags to Dawson to get tuned anymore? It's not a Staccato and STI didn't build it but my 2011 runs flawlessly with the newest iteration of STI 20 round magazines. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:59:42 PM EDT
[#32]
For me I shot a really nice Sig Custom Shop gun about a year ago. (Made in Germany, like $5,000) and it was insane.
I fell back in love with SAOs and began my search. Sig Legion, a few others. Stacatto had the magazine capacity I wanted, the factory support for an RMR I wanted (didn't want Sig RDS) and a few other small things. I really don't understand why SAOs aren't more popular. They simply are the best triggers out there. And the safety thing is a meme. I was swiping off an invisible safety in my G17 for a year or two. People do the Sig gymnastics "Bro you can train around a DA/SA bro you just need to train more bro" but somehow it's inconceivable you could train to disengage a safety. Two different trigger weights? Bro just train bro. Disengage a safety? Wow lol you're gonna die. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 4:19:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, it's a lot of marketing. They (Staccato) gave away a ton of these things for free. Completely saturated the influencer space with free pistols. While it's a fact that they work and work well so do a vast number of other pistols. What's funny to me is the number of internet pipe hitters who previously swore no self defense gun should have a manual safety and now those same people are extolling the "positive click" of the manual safety on these lol. It's just perfect at EVERYTHING. Staccato are great pistols if that's what you're looking for. But no, they did not render everything else obsolete. I don't see the 2011 making a huge impression outside the internet scene tbh not anymore than it did 20 years ago. It's had some adoption on the duty level but I suspect the glow will wear off when the marketing dies down. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 5:31:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The C is a carry gun The P is a duty gun The XC is a competition gun. That's it really. I love my P but I've always liked full size pistols, and I don't want to carry a competition gun. So the P is a great fit for me. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/425212/Screenshot_20210924-144022_Gallery-2103670.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/425212/Screenshot_20210923-152032_Gallery-2101990.jpg @WhiskersTheCat If I ordered a P, should I get steel or aluminum? |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 5:32:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The C is a carry gun The P is a duty gun The XC is a competition gun. That's it really. I love my P but I've always liked full size pistols, and I don't want to carry a competition gun. So the P is a great fit for me. What competition would you use the XC for? Not a good fit for the big ones that I’m aware of. The P amd XL would work for USPSA Limited if they were available in 40. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 5:33:38 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 10/20/2021 5:35:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What competition would you use the XC for? Not a good fit for the big ones that I’m aware of. The P amd XL would work for USPSA Limited if they were available in 40. I would gladly shoot 9x19 in limited. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 5:35:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What competition would you use the XC for? Not a good fit for the big ones that I’m aware of. The P amd XL would work for USPSA Limited if they were available in 40. This is my XC taking 1st place night at CW Heartland. I cleared 8 targets including a Texas star with 12 shots. I’ll be using it this weekend at the Pawnee NV RnG.  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 5:36:44 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: I really don't know how many actual complete pistols they sold annually as STI. I, like hundreds (maybe thousands) of others, bought an STI frame kit and had a gunsmith build me a pistol (in .45, of all things). Gen 1 magazines SUCKED OUT LOUD. Several gunsmiths made a name for themselves and their shops / brands as guys who tuned STI magazines, and many made components to do so (bodies, followers, springs, and base pads). Staccato employees bought the factory, and new leadership was brilliant in dropping most options to concentrate on producing a single platform and caliber (9mm) to work close to flawlessly -- probably not too hard, since .40 was going away as a police cartridge, and I don't think they ever got .45 to work right in a double stack. Once they got 9mm to work correctly with a factory magazine that needs no additional work or tuning, they chose to market it as a cop gun (cops being cheap bastards -- but if the department's buying, the gun works, has a better trigger than anything else on the market, and scores go up -- it made an easier sell). Once big-name departments (the US Marshals and LAPD) bought and approved them for work and off-duty guns (with great individual officer discounts for a pistol, multiple spare mags, and holsters) the Staccato brand took off. Retail customers took notice and, like with the M16 and M4, lots of folks want what the Action Guys are using, and are willing to pay close to (or more than) market price. Demand went insane, supply went down. USPSA competitors are all powty-face because Staccato is neglecting the niche market shooters who built their original brand -- buyers willing to drop a wheelbarrow full of money for a gun in a competition-only caliber, guaranteed to sell dozens a year. I think they sold quite a few. With open guns it seemed like people quickly gravitated to custom guns but the Edge and other limited guns I saw much more often. Guys like Dawson and Shooters Connection sold tons of them. Now that there are numerous places building the frames it makes sense they would shift there focus. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 5:44:24 PM EDT
[#40]
They are very good.
However….there is a major diminishing return past a certain point. Hard use carry guns take a beating and have a relatively short service life. Generally, 5 years is time to replace or fully rebuild if it’s being shot constantly, exposed to weather, dry fired, and so on. Ideally, you have 2…so rebuild doesn’t disrupt continuity. 2 of those is $$$. At a certain point, a 320 with the trigger upgrade, dot, light, and comp…is fully capable of shooting beyond the skill level of 99.9% of shooters and will do it low cost in a platform that you can replace at a local gun shop. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 5:47:38 PM EDT
[#41]
I’ve fallen in love with my RIA Tac Ultra FS HC. My fear is that I find enough cash for a Staccato P soon. I really love the 1911/2011 platform.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 5:52:52 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are very good. However….there is a major diminishing return past a certain point. Hard use carry guns take a beating and have a relatively short service life. Generally, 5 years is time to replace or fully rebuild if it’s being shot constantly, exposed to weather, dry fired, and so on. Ideally, you have 2…so rebuild doesn’t disrupt continuity. 2 of those is $$$. At a certain point, a 320 with the trigger upgrade, dot, light, and comp…is fully capable of shooting beyond the skill level of 99.9% of shooters and will do it low cost in a platform that you can replace at a local gun shop. Not trying to be a dick, but how on earth are you getting a gun to that point in 5 years? |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 5:53:14 PM EDT
[#43]
I’m almost at 4K rounds of everything from Tula 115gr to 124gr gold dot through my 2021 Staccato P DUO. Zero malfunctions with Staccato gen 3 mags or Atlas mags and consistently locking slide open. Only thing I’ve replaced so far is my recoil spring and firing pin return spring as preventative maintenance at 3k rounds.
I took it through a couple of courses where it definitely ate some dirt with me shooting prone, unconventional positions with rifle while it was holstered, and in heavy rain/muddy conditions. The only thing to be aware of is your mag springs will rust if you shoot in the rain. The other springs in the gun were fine but I had to wipe off the mag springs. I would not have believed this gun could be this reliable from all the crap talk I’ve read and heard from people about the 2011 and this brand. I’m definitely buying a second one next year and would trust my life to this gun without a second thought. I’m very happy with mine so far and would recommend them to anyone. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 5:53:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Same gun, better mags.
I wouldn’t bother with one, but they’re cool. We’ll see how they shake out long term. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 5:59:28 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not trying to be a dick, but how on earth are you getting a gun to that point in 5 years? Some guys shoot a thousand or two rounds a month. That will catch up with any gun eventually. This sucks when you're dealing with parts that require fitting. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 6:00:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve fallen in love with my RIA Tac Ultra FS HC. My fear is that I find enough cash for a Staccato P soon. I really love the 1911/2011 platform. I got one of their .40s that they made for like five minutes. Solid gun. Heavier than the Staccato, and it loosens up faster, but still a really solid gun. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 6:04:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not trying to be a dick, but how on earth are you getting a gun to that point in 5 years? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They are very good. However….there is a major diminishing return past a certain point. Hard use carry guns take a beating and have a relatively short service life. Generally, 5 years is time to replace or fully rebuild if it’s being shot constantly, exposed to weather, dry fired, and so on. Ideally, you have 2…so rebuild doesn’t disrupt continuity. 2 of those is $$$. At a certain point, a 320 with the trigger upgrade, dot, light, and comp…is fully capable of shooting beyond the skill level of 99.9% of shooters and will do it low cost in a platform that you can replace at a local gun shop. Not trying to be a dick, but how on earth are you getting a gun to that point in 5 years? Shoot weekly. Range is on the way to work. 4x pistol classes a year x 1500 rounds each…bunch of frangible…shooting outdoors in the rain…carrying it outdoors in rain, mud, snow… I went through 3 Sig 228/9s in 17 years and they had major parts failures well prior to full replacement. Make training habitual, schedule it, do it full speed. Wash your hands though…my blood lead levels were a mess. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 6:08:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some guys shoot a thousand or two rounds a month. That will catch up with any gun eventually. This sucks when you're dealing with parts that require fitting. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not trying to be a dick, but how on earth are you getting a gun to that point in 5 years? Some guys shoot a thousand or two rounds a month. That will catch up with any gun eventually. This sucks when you're dealing with parts that require fitting. I know dudes who put in 20K rounds a year. They don’t suggest 320s over 2011s. And if you’re shooting that much, 2 staccatos are the cheap part of your regimen. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 6:18:45 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same gun, better mags. I wouldn’t bother with one, but they’re cool. We’ll see how they shake out long term. Pretty much my take too. If a better trigger is needed I'll use a 1911, if more capacity/lighter/more durable/more modern is needed the market is full of options, some of which do some other things better too. Want? Yes, but not that badly. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 6:51:50 PM EDT
[#50]
When STI, a company known for hit or miss quality competition guns, decided to rebrand with that dumb name, completely ditch their entire past customer base, and start acting like tactical bros, I remember thinking who's going to buy these things now. Boy was I wrong. I guess I seriously underestimated the power of Instagram "influencers"
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