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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:18:21 AM EDT
This is sure to rustle the slavedrivers' jimmies, but here's a bit of no-shit sherlocky stuff that pretty much 99.99% of everyone who's ever worked long hours knows instinctively: When you have more free time, you're better rested, happier, healthier, and get just as much done with less time (which is an increase in productivity), or even MORE than you were doing with long hours (which is a super increase in productivity). And, for business owners, you also have better job retention, less operating costs, and a generally more pleasant work environment....not to mention cheaper healthcare because people aren't stress eating into early graves and expensive ongoing conditions.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2021/07/06/iceland-worker-study-four-day-work-week-productivity/7871364002/ Researchers in Iceland have found that a four-day work week, without a pay cut, improved workers' well-being and productivity. For four years, researchers tracked 2,500 employees who reduced their workweek to 35 to 36 hours. Researchers found that "worker wellbeing dramatically increased across a range of indicators, from perceived stress and burnout, to health and work-life balance." At the same time, productivity remained the same or improved for the majority of workplaces, the study said. Participants worked at various places such as hospitals, offices, playschools and social service offices. Now, on with pages full of excuse making....  |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:20:53 AM EDT
[#1]
Makes sense to me. 4 ten hour days is logically more productive than 5 eights. That's 20% fewer groggy mornings, and 50% more weekend fun time.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:24:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Why are we paying attention to a study about productivity from a country that doesn't produce much of anything?
That being said, I agree with the premise, for most jobs anyway. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:25:04 AM EDT
[#3]
It isn't the hours, it isn't the days of the week, it isn't the shift preference, it isn't the work, it is shitty management that makes a company unbearable.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:25:49 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn't the hours, it isn't the days of the week, it isn't the shift preference, it isn't the work, it is shitty management that makes a company unbearable.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:27:22 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are we paying attention to a study about productivity from a country that doesn't produce much of anything? That being said, I agree with the premise, for most jobs anyway. Never mind the fact that they actually reduced the work hours to 35 a week  4 10s would be amazing, but I am stuck with the good old 5 or 6 12s 
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:29:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never mind the fact that they actually reduced the work hours to 35 a week And yet the world still gets its puffin shit and rotten fish needs met. Amazing.... 
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:29:02 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn't the hours, it isn't the days of the week, it isn't the shift preference, it isn't the work, it is shitty management that makes a company unbearable. This |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:31:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Please read the article and stop talking about 4 10 hour shifts. They reduced it to 4 9 hour shifts or less, effectively stating that a 40 hour work week is not needed for productivity.
Sounds great, but do they ignore the part that most customer service is not about productivity alone and requires availability? |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:32:48 AM EDT
[#9]
10 hours makes for a long work day. A few weeks of that will drag on you especially when you no longer make overtime past the 8 hour mark which is a psychological motivator.
However, having 3 days off would be awesome. Not entirely sure which way I'd prefer. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:32:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Some of my guys work 4 - 12s and are done. They like it a lot more
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:33:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please read the article and stop talking about 4 10 hour shifts. They reduced it to 4 9 hour shifts or less, effectively stating that a 40 hour work week is not needed for productivity. Sounds great, but do they ignore the part that most customer service is not about productivity alone and requires availability? Obvi it's not going to cover every job. Like 12hr factory shifts. It's basically office bitches that work 8-5. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:34:51 AM EDT
[#12]
Hell yeah, just in time for $15 min, wage
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:36:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please read the article and stop talking about 4 10 hour shifts. They reduced it to 4 9 hour shifts or less, effectively stating that a 40 hour work week is not needed for productivity. Sounds great, but do they ignore the part that most customer service is not about productivity alone and requires availability? Or look at something simple like an assembly line worker. Let's say they make 400 parts in 40 hours. They won't make 400 parts in 36 hours. So how will that change wages or the price of the part they produce? |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:37:02 AM EDT
[#14]
My 4 ten and a half hour days are a lot more productive when the other mechanic isn’t here.
But, yeah, I dig my schedule. Two four day weekends a month. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:37:53 AM EDT
[#15]
I've worked a 4 on 4 off schedule for the past 5 years. Other than the fact that I don't have a set weekend, it's awesome.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:37:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Got a chuckle out of the article.
Not sure how working less hours would make me and my coworkers more productive. If the wheels aren't turning on a commercial vehicle it's not being productive. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:42:16 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are we paying attention to a study about productivity from a country that doesn't produce much of anything? I can link you two half a dozen done here the states that echo the same thing, if you'd like. Human beings are human beings, and the same deleterious practices affect them in Zimbabwe or Dallas. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:44:27 AM EDT
[#18]
You mean you guys don't already have a 4 day work week?!
4x10 is awesome!!! |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:44:32 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn't the hours, it isn't the days of the week, it isn't the shift preference, it isn't the work, it is shitty management that makes a company unbearable. That's directly contradictory to the topic at hand. Management wasn't changed, hours worked were and there was a result from that single change. Let's look at that, because obviously shitty management makes a company unbearable. But, let's assume you have great management....and you can reduce hours and give your employees better work/life balance. Is that a bad idea or a good idea from the company's point of view? Make a case. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:45:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please read the article and stop talking about 4 10 hour shifts. They reduced it to 4 9 hour shifts or less, effectively stating that a 40 hour work week is not needed for productivity. Sounds great, but do they ignore the part that most customer service is not about productivity alone and requires availability? Yep, Customer service is a sun-up to sun-down monday-friday type of world. If you aren't available, you will miss out on opportunity and profit. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:46:18 AM EDT
[#21]
My work has this 4-10 schedule and sells it to new employees then when they start and are asked to work 6 days in a row all summer they quit.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:46:20 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can link you two half a dozen done here the states that echo the same thing, if you'd like. Human beings are human beings, and the same deleterious practices affect them in Zimbabwe or Dallas. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why are we paying attention to a study about productivity from a country that doesn't produce much of anything? I can link you two half a dozen done here the states that echo the same thing, if you'd like. Human beings are human beings, and the same deleterious practices affect them in Zimbabwe or Dallas. Not really. Work ethic and job expectations are not the same in every country. Look at your average American worker compared to your average Japanese worker. Also if the US adopted this wouldn't it just give more of an advantage to China and the other cheap labor countries? |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:46:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or look at something simple like an assembly line worker. Let's say they make 400 parts in 40 hours. They won't make 400 parts in 36 hours. So how will that change wages or the price of the part they produce? Their study says their productivity equals or exceeds the 40. I don't remember if they have any real industry in Iceland, but the study makes it sound like their production numbers show this works. It seems off. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:47:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please read the article and stop talking about 4 10 hour shifts. They reduced it to 4 9 hour shifts or less, effectively stating that a 40 hour work week is not needed for productivity. Sounds great, but do they ignore the part that most customer service is not about productivity alone and requires availability? Availability at the company level is a staffing issue, is it not? If you are open 24 hours, it's not a question of needing a single employee to fill all 24....but of who you place where within the confines of their hourly work. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:47:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Commie euro researchers say they should have Fridays off!
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:48:21 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Makes sense to me. 4 ten hour days is logically more productive than 5 eights. That's 20% fewer groggy mornings, and 50% more weekend fun time.  Your agreeing to cut people's coffee time down..... 
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:49:14 AM EDT
[#27]
My section at work went from working four 10 hour days to 5 8 hour days. Morale immediately plummeted.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:49:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn't the hours, it isn't the days of the week, it isn't the shift preference, it isn't the work, it is shitty management that makes a company unbearable. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:49:50 AM EDT
[#29]
Switching to a 35-36 hour work week is one answer to unemployment problems... but at a time when Biden is paying people to say home its just going to create more labor shortages.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:50:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their study says their productivity equals or exceeds the 40. I don't remember if they have any real industry in Iceland, but the study makes it sound like their production numbers show this works. It seems off. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Or look at something simple like an assembly line worker. Let's say they make 400 parts in 40 hours. They won't make 400 parts in 36 hours. So how will that change wages or the price of the part they produce? Their study says their productivity equals or exceeds the 40. I don't remember if they have any real industry in Iceland, but the study makes it sound like their production numbers show this works. It seems off. I think they are making a huge assumption that most people have unproductive down-time each day. Without blowing persec I can say without a doubt I could not do what I do now in 40, in 36. My workload would have to be lightened. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:50:23 AM EDT
[#31]
The entire study covers government workers, doing government shit. Total fucking BS.
"Productivity" is some multi-tangential metric measuring stupid things like % of phone calls answered or "open cases." Zero manufacturing. Yeah, that's real handy. 
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:50:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Makes sense to me. 4 ten hour days is logically more productive than 5 eights. That's 20% fewer groggy mornings, and 50% more weekend fun time. This. I've specifically looked for jobs that allow such scheduling. I'd rather commute 4 times than 5 times and having a 3rd day for medical, banking, shopping or other time available is great! BIGGER_HAMMER  |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:51:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or look at something simple like an assembly line worker. Let's say they make 400 parts in 40 hours. They won't make 400 parts in 36 hours. So how will that change wages or the price of the part they produce? What is the bottleneck for their production of 400 parts? If it's individual output/energy, rather than the speed of an assembly line or some other limit, it's likely they will meet or exceed that with less hours because they're better rested/focused. Also a thing that's been pretty well studied in occupational science before. I've actually seen that first hand in our shop, and I'm in a position to track individual output. On weeks where we have a vacation day, and are reduced to 36 hours of normal production, we often see the same or sometimes even more output by employees in the reduced amount of time. An employee that normally processes 15-20 jobs per day is able to process the same or more with the loss of an entire shift. That also echoes the findings of this study. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:51:30 AM EDT
[#34]
People liked working less while making more per hour. Wow, how much money and time did they take to figure that out?
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:51:48 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Makes sense to me. 4 ten hour days is logically more productive than 5 eights. That's 20% fewer groggy mornings, and 50% more weekend fun time. Been on four tens for 23 years with 8 years in the middle working three twelves. More shifts are more productive than longer hours as long as overlap is minimal. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:52:40 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Got a chuckle out of the article. Not sure how working less hours would make me and my coworkers more productive. If the wheels aren't turning on a commercial vehicle it's not being productive. Obviously it isn't for everyone, like mentioned above people working an assembly line with a takt time aren't going to see the same benefit. It's more focused on office workers, who spend a portion of their day logging into their computer, opening files every day, talking to their coworkers about whatever crap their kid did the prior weekend... I agree with this...I think I could be as productive working 4 9s as 5 8s. Yes, four fewer hours, but one less day of BS. Plus, it seems like half the office is out, leaving early, taking long lunches on Fridays anyways, not much gets done. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:52:42 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10 hours makes for a long work day. A few weeks of that will drag on you especially when you no longer make overtime past the 8 hour mark which is a psychological motivator. However, having 3 days off would be awesome. Not entirely sure which way I'd prefer. I work 4 10’s. The 3 day weekends are a huge motivator to stay employed here. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:53:45 AM EDT
[#38]
I've been on 4 11's for the past 10 years. We have 3 teams of guys, 1 team is always off. The way the rotation works out, you get 5 off days in a row every 3rd week. not a bad gig.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:55:24 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Got a chuckle out of the article. Not sure how working less hours would make me and my coworkers more productive. If the wheels aren't turning on a commercial vehicle it's not being productive. Well, obviously it's not universal...but let's look at this in terms of a company that has commercial vehicles deployed and only makes money when the wheels are turning. If you have 4 employees driving 12 hours a day for 6 days a week, that's roughly the same output as if you had 6 employees working 8 hours a day, but with 6 employees you can service more clients with 2 more vehicles. You have 6 guys working a more reasonable shift, more vehicles making you money, and haven't lost any output....and you put 2 more guys into the work field. Yes, that's simplistic and ignores some factors, but you get the idea that staffing isn't the same thing as individual output, right? |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:56:48 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their study says their productivity equals or exceeds the 40. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:57:05 AM EDT
[#41]
Having worked a 4 day work week for the last 14 years or so, I can say it's pretty nice. One less day spent commuting saves gas and wear and tear on a vehicle so you're saving whales or stopping global warming like some tree-hugging hippy while also saving money. Having a week day to run errands or go to the dentist, doctor, or other appointments is pretty handy, too.
It's not necessarily gonna work for every job but for office drones or places where it's essentially just a certain amount of worker hours or coverage to do something it could be done. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:58:01 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really. Work ethic and job expectations are not the same in every country. Look at your average American worker compared to your average Japanese worker. Also if the US adopted this wouldn't it just give more of an advantage to China and the other cheap labor countries? Fine. Show me a valid study ANYWHERE that shows increasing hours worked increases productivity at the worker level. In any country. For any pool of workers. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:59:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Four day workweek also leads to more demand for goods and services, which is also good for the economy.
Think about having a three day weekend every week? More time to recreate, work on house projects, etc. All that stuff helps the economy just as much as anything. I’ve always wondered why four 10s isn’t more common. If our department did it I’d strongly consider going to a 40hr position. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 11:01:03 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The entire study covers government workers, doing government shit. Total fucking BS. "Productivity" is some multi-tangential metric measuring stupid things like % of phone calls answered or "open cases." Zero manufacturing. Yeah, that's real handy. It's one study of dozens that have been done on this subject. Can you point to one, anywhere, that shows productivity increases with hours worked? If it does not, then increasing hours across your labor pool is wasteful and counterproductive at the company level, for reasons I clearly articulated. And, again, staffing changes account for gaps in availability. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 11:01:55 AM EDT
[#45]
George Jetson always complained about his 3 day work weeks.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 11:03:06 AM EDT
[#46]
5x8's, like the physical office, is for chumps and boomers.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 11:03:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People liked working less while making more per hour. Wow, how much money and time did they take to figure that out? Not just about liking something, now is it? I like blowjobs, but if the science showed that getting them at my whim produced a complete failure to get anything else done it would suggest a societal collapse if we all had limitless blowjobs. So, let's look at the results again and ask "what are the consequences of people working slightly less?" Was it good or bad for everyone involved? Did it hurt productivity? Ok. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 11:04:09 AM EDT
[#48]
4-10s are they way to go
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Posted: 7/7/2021 11:06:17 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fine. Show me a valid study ANYWHERE that shows increasing hours worked increases productivity at the worker level. In any country. For any pool of workers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not really. Work ethic and job expectations are not the same in every country. Look at your average American worker compared to your average Japanese worker. Also if the US adopted this wouldn't it just give more of an advantage to China and the other cheap labor countries? Fine. Show me a valid study ANYWHERE that shows increasing hours worked increases productivity at the worker level. In any country. For any pool of workers. I'm not saying the study is completely incorrect I'm simply saying they are painting with a broad brush and there are a lot of variables that aren't taken into account. With that, your study is doing exactly what you just asked me to find a study on, when looking at daily hours. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 11:06:58 AM EDT
[#50]
BTW, here's a study on assembly line/industrial workers that pretty much answers whether longer hours are beneficial for productivity:
http://ftp.iza.org/dp8129.pdf |
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