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Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:15:43 AM EDT
[#1]
You all keep talking as if SCROTUS  is our friend and they are NOT!! The are just another oppressive regulatory government body that throws you one bone, while taking two or three rights away, the next week.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:15:48 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:


The defendant that they hung their hat on was 100% the worst choice imaginable.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This should surprise NO ONE! The guy at the center of this was a domestic abuser and a drug dealer who had endangered the public numerous times by firing off guns in public. He is the LAST guy who we should be backing for having any sorts of rights.

Only INCELS and the can’t get laid brigade guys think its OK to beat your partner because your soup is cold.

Miller was a bank robber.
Wasn’t Miranda a rapist?
Do nice and clean cut people often end up before the courts?

I agree it wasn’t a surprise. But I don’t think even a “good guy” defendant would have changed the outcome.


The defendant that they hung their hat on was 100% the worst choice imaginable.


Didn't matter. They were never gonna do it anyways.

Fuck, Alito just dragged an innocent grandmother through the mud yesterday who got sent to jail by her political enemies.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:16:03 AM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:


Rahmi invalidates it. You only need an analogue now. That term means nothing, so basically it is whatever that judge thinks is similar.

It cannot be overstated how bad this decision is. Even if they want to clarity this l, it’s now going to take ten years to make any progress.

The group that brought this case should be beaten to death with Hillary Clinton’s big dong.
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This decision, which I have read, completely invalidates the text history and tradition standard in Bruen.

Bruen is essentially undone.

Now all they need is “historical analogue” which anti gun judges will interpret to mean any case or law they like. Oh a 1989 law in Owasso, Michigan banned turtle molesting on Tuesdays? Thats clear evidence that assault weapon bans are a OK.

This decision completely fucks up everything.


Did Rahimi give clarification on WHEN the historical analogue test must be applied? 1780s or late 1800s?

Big difference. And Thomas has always said 1780s. But Antonyuk, the Bruen II case up for cert now, (which is @nolocontendere 's case) is asking SCOTUS when the historical test should look to.

Did Rahimi answer this?


Rahmi invalidates it. You only need an analogue now. That term means nothing, so basically it is whatever that judge thinks is similar.

It cannot be overstated how bad this decision is. Even if they want to clarity this l, it’s now going to take ten years to make any progress.

The group that brought this case should be beaten to death with Hillary Clinton’s big dong.


Wait...even Bruen said the gov needs a widespread, historical analogue of a law to validate a modern law.

That's not new.

An analogous law must be analogous. It can't be some cherry picked one off law with a loose connection.

Nothing changes there. The historical analogue / tradition test remains.

Antonyuk needs to be granted cert to clarify what time period the test must point to though.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:16:20 AM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
So, a simple, verbal accusation by a woman of DV from her significant other is enough to lose your 2A Right for the rest of your life?
View Quote



Usually they get a freebie 14 days after which you can contest it.  The vast majority who contest it overturn the order (or the accuser doesn't show up) IIRC, meaning most of them were meritless.  

Federally I don't think you become a prohibited until you're given a chance to contest it and lose, but I think many states automagically prohibit you off the bat.  Not much consolation if all your guns were taken and now you're asked for receipts or some other shit to get your own stuff back, assuming a way is even offered to get them back.

Not legal advice.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:16:44 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
“They”?

This wasn’t a gun right group seeking a plaintiff. This was defense attorneys doing their job
View Quote

Who's paying the defense attorney?
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:18:09 AM EDT
[#6]
Trump picked some winners. Who needs enemies with people “on our side” like that.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:18:25 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:



Big question, what meets the definition of “credible”?
View Quote


state court granted Rahimi’s then-girlfriend a restraining order in February 2020 after Rahimi dragged her into his car following an argument in Arlington. He pushed her in, causing her to hit her head on the dashboard, and then shot at a bystander who had witnessed the assault

But Rahimi kept his guns. He used one gun to threaten another woman and, months later in the winter of 2020, he was involved in five shootings in the span of several weeks. He once shot at a constable’s car; on another time, he fired a weapon into the air outside a Whataburger after his friend’s credit card was declined.

Rahimi, who court documents describe as a drug dealer who mostly sold marijuana, pleaded guilty to the federal charge and was sentenced to six years in prison. Rahimi reportedly said this summer in a handwritten letter from jail, where he is awaiting the outcome of his state case, that he wants “to stay away from all firearms and weapons.”


This case was brought to lose on purpose.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:18:43 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


“They”?

This wasn’t a gun right group seeking a plaintiff. This was defense attorneys doing their job
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This should surprise NO ONE! The guy at the center of this was a domestic abuser and a drug dealer who had endangered the public numerous times by firing off guns in public. He is the LAST guy who we should be backing for having any sorts of rights.

Only INCELS and the can’t get laid brigade guys think its OK to beat your partner because your soup is cold.

Miller was a bank robber.
Wasn’t Miranda a rapist?
Do nice and clean cut people often end up before the courts?

I agree it wasn’t a surprise. But I don’t think even a “good guy” defendant would have changed the outcome.


The defendant that they hung their hat on was 100% the worst choice imaginable.


“They”?

This wasn’t a gun right group seeking a plaintiff. This was defense attorneys doing their job


“They” is a sub group of the Pro 2A community that think that guys like the defendant should be armed. That is the they.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:18:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:19:32 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Didn't matter. They were never gonna do it anyways.

Fuck, Alito just dragged an innocent grandmother through the mud yesterday who got sent to jail by her political enemies.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This should surprise NO ONE! The guy at the center of this was a domestic abuser and a drug dealer who had endangered the public numerous times by firing off guns in public. He is the LAST guy who we should be backing for having any sorts of rights.

Only INCELS and the can’t get laid brigade guys think its OK to beat your partner because your soup is cold.

Miller was a bank robber.
Wasn’t Miranda a rapist?
Do nice and clean cut people often end up before the courts?

I agree it wasn’t a surprise. But I don’t think even a “good guy” defendant would have changed the outcome.


The defendant that they hung their hat on was 100% the worst choice imaginable.


Didn't matter. They were never gonna do it anyways.

Fuck, Alito just dragged an innocent grandmother through the mud yesterday who got sent to jail by her political enemies.


LOL.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:19:33 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Wait...even Bruen said the gov needs a widespread, historical analogue of a law to validate a modern law.

That's not new.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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This decision, which I have read, completely invalidates the text history and tradition standard in Bruen.

Bruen is essentially undone.

Now all they need is “historical analogue” which anti gun judges will interpret to mean any case or law they like. Oh a 1989 law in Owasso, Michigan banned turtle molesting on Tuesdays? Thats clear evidence that assault weapon bans are a OK.

This decision completely fucks up everything.


Did Rahimi give clarification on WHEN the historical analogue test must be applied? 1780s or late 1800s?

Big difference. And Thomas has always said 1780s. But Antonyuk, the Bruen II case up for cert now, (which is @nolocontendere 's case) is asking SCOTUS when the historical test should look to.

Did Rahimi answer this?


Rahmi invalidates it. You only need an analogue now. That term means nothing, so basically it is whatever that judge thinks is similar.

It cannot be overstated how bad this decision is. Even if they want to clarity this l, it’s now going to take ten years to make any progress.

The group that brought this case should be beaten to death with Hillary Clinton’s big dong.


Wait...even Bruen said the gov needs a widespread, historical analogue of a law to validate a modern law.

That's not new.


That deal just got altered in a big way. The government said today “never mind, something close is good enough.”
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:19:39 AM EDT
[#12]
I dunno. Maybe picking a total sack of human shit to hinge a major 2A case off of wasn't the best idea?

Had to be this guy?

RFN?

Couldn't wait for a cleaner dude with similar circumstance. Like thsoe are hard to come by?


Really?
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:20:40 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:



Usually they get a freebie 14 days after which you can contest it.  The vast majority who contest it overturn the order IIRC, meaning most of them were meritless.  

Federally I don't think you become a prohibited until you're given a chance to contest it and lose, but I think many states automagically prohibit you off the bat.  Not much consolation if all your guns were taken and now you're asked for receipts or some other shit to get your own stuff back, assuming a way is even offered to get them back.

Not legal advice.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
So, a simple, verbal accusation by a woman of DV from her significant other is enough to lose your 2A Right for the rest of your life?



Usually they get a freebie 14 days after which you can contest it.  The vast majority who contest it overturn the order IIRC, meaning most of them were meritless.  

Federally I don't think you become a prohibited until you're given a chance to contest it and lose, but I think many states automagically prohibit you off the bat.  Not much consolation if all your guns were taken and now you're asked for receipts or some other shit to get your own stuff back, assuming a way is even offered to get them back.

Not legal advice.

The latter was spelled out in Roberts' opinion.

Rahimi was notified and had the opportunity to contest the order, but did not.  Roberts specifically stated that having an opportunity to contest it was vital to when the statute is applied.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:21:21 AM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:



Big question, what meets the definition of “credible”?
View Quote


Well it is whatever the Government says it is of course.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:24:17 AM EDT
[#15]
This thread is interesting in that we seem to have many here in the GD who for whatever reason are aggressively fearful of being accused (Falsely or accurately) of DV.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:24:46 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The latter was spelled out in Roberts' opinion.

Rahimi was notified and had the opportunity to contest the order, but did not.  Roberts specifically stated that having an opportunity to contest it was vital to when the statute is applied.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, a simple, verbal accusation by a woman of DV from her significant other is enough to lose your 2A Right for the rest of your life?



Usually they get a freebie 14 days after which you can contest it.  The vast majority who contest it overturn the order IIRC, meaning most of them were meritless.  

Federally I don't think you become a prohibited until you're given a chance to contest it and lose, but I think many states automagically prohibit you off the bat.  Not much consolation if all your guns were taken and now you're asked for receipts or some other shit to get your own stuff back, assuming a way is even offered to get them back.

Not legal advice.

The latter was spelled out in Roberts' opinion.

Rahimi was notified and had the opportunity to contest the order, but did not.  Roberts specifically stated that having an opportunity to contest it was vital to when the statute is applied.


That’s a phone call from the courthouse at 10am saying be in court at 1pm. It doesn’t even need to happen. The petitioner just needs to say they called you.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:24:55 AM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:


That deal just got altered in a big way. The government said today “never mind, something close is good enough.”
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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This decision, which I have read, completely invalidates the text history and tradition standard in Bruen.

Bruen is essentially undone.

Now all they need is “historical analogue” which anti gun judges will interpret to mean any case or law they like. Oh a 1989 law in Owasso, Michigan banned turtle molesting on Tuesdays? Thats clear evidence that assault weapon bans are a OK.

This decision completely fucks up everything.


Did Rahimi give clarification on WHEN the historical analogue test must be applied? 1780s or late 1800s?

Big difference. And Thomas has always said 1780s. But Antonyuk, the Bruen II case up for cert now, (which is @nolocontendere 's case) is asking SCOTUS when the historical test should look to.

Did Rahimi answer this?


Rahmi invalidates it. You only need an analogue now. That term means nothing, so basically it is whatever that judge thinks is similar.

It cannot be overstated how bad this decision is. Even if they want to clarity this l, it’s now going to take ten years to make any progress.

The group that brought this case should be beaten to death with Hillary Clinton’s big dong.


Wait...even Bruen said the gov needs a widespread, historical analogue of a law to validate a modern law.

That's not new.


That deal just got altered in a big way. The government said today “never mind, something close is good enough.”


Well yeah. Analogous doesn't mean exact. Never did.

Not that I agree with this ruling at all because I don't think there were any analogous laws taking away guns based on some made up credible threat bullshit...

But the standard is always a widespread tradition of a gun law that was analogous to the law in question...

Which is still a very difficult test for the government to prove.

Bruen still stands strong. Even the majority opinion in Rahimi says on page 7 that the second amendment extends to all all bearable arms, even ones that were not invented during the time of the founding.

AWBs are going bye bye.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:25:18 AM EDT
[#18]
The Leftist will soon capitalize on this ruling
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:26:17 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
This thread is interesting in that we seem to have many here in the GD who for whatever reason are aggressively fearful of being accused (Falsely or accurately) of DV.
View Quote

Because so many divorce lawyers have their female clients file for restraining orders, and half of all marriages end in divorce?

Kharn
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:26:39 AM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:


The defendant that they hung their hat on was 100% the worst choice imaginable.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This should surprise NO ONE! The guy at the center of this was a domestic abuser and a drug dealer who had endangered the public numerous times by firing off guns in public. He is the LAST guy who we should be backing for having any sorts of rights.

Only INCELS and the can’t get laid brigade guys think its OK to beat your partner because your soup is cold.

Miller was a bank robber.
Wasn’t Miranda a rapist?
Do nice and clean cut people often end up before the courts?

I agree it wasn’t a surprise. But I don’t think even a “good guy” defendant would have changed the outcome.


The defendant that they hung their hat on was 100% the worst choice imaginable.

I don’t disagree about that part. Rahimi is a shitty human being. I just don’t think a normal person would have changed the outcome much.

Outside of Thomas, I don’t see any of them having the balls to be one of the Justices that voted to “give abusers back their guns”, no matter the defendant.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:27:14 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
This thread is interesting in that we seem to have many here in the GD who for whatever reason are aggressively fearful of being accused (Falsely or accurately) of DV.
View Quote


Oh the irony of that coming from a cop...
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:27:31 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:


That’s a phone call from the courthouse at 10am saying be in court at 1pm. It doesn’t even need to happen. The petitioner just needs to say they called you.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, a simple, verbal accusation by a woman of DV from her significant other is enough to lose your 2A Right for the rest of your life?



Usually they get a freebie 14 days after which you can contest it.  The vast majority who contest it overturn the order IIRC, meaning most of them were meritless.  

Federally I don't think you become a prohibited until you're given a chance to contest it and lose, but I think many states automagically prohibit you off the bat.  Not much consolation if all your guns were taken and now you're asked for receipts or some other shit to get your own stuff back, assuming a way is even offered to get them back.

Not legal advice.

The latter was spelled out in Roberts' opinion.

Rahimi was notified and had the opportunity to contest the order, but did not.  Roberts specifically stated that having an opportunity to contest it was vital to when the statute is applied.


That’s a phone call from the courthouse at 10am saying be in court at 1pm. It doesn’t even need to happen. The petitioner just needs to say they called you.


The other issue is a restraining order is civil meaning there is no need to establish you're guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.  They've intentionally pushed the ball from a criminal conviction into whatever shit tier preponderance is used for restraining orders.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:28:50 AM EDT
[#23]
I bet we see the Supreme Court kick back all the IL AWB cases for reconsideration based on this paragraph on page 7:

"As we explained in Heller,  for example, the reach of the Second Amendment is not limited only to those arms that were in existence at the founding. [...] Rather, it "extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not [yet] in existence. Ibid. By the same logic, the Second Amendment permits more than just those regulations identical to ones that could be found in 1791. Holding otherwise would be as mistaken as applying the protections of the right only to muskets and sabers."

Kharn
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:28:52 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
This thread is interesting in that we seem to have many here in the GD who for whatever reason are aggressively fearful of being accused (Falsely or accurately) of DV.
View Quote


Yep. I’ve been a witness in family court enough times that I’ve seen how the system is abused to disarm men.

Burkeva and I dated for three months. When I ended things he told me if he couldn’t have me he’d make sure no one could. He owns a bunch of guns and is active in online gun communities. I’m afraid he will kill me.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:28:55 AM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:

I don’t disagree about that part. Rahimi is a shitty human being. I just don’t think a normal person would have changed the outcome much.

Outside of Thomas, I don’t see any of them having the balls to be one of the Justices that voted to “give abusers back their guns”, no matter the defendant.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This should surprise NO ONE! The guy at the center of this was a domestic abuser and a drug dealer who had endangered the public numerous times by firing off guns in public. He is the LAST guy who we should be backing for having any sorts of rights.

Only INCELS and the can’t get laid brigade guys think its OK to beat your partner because your soup is cold.

Miller was a bank robber.
Wasn’t Miranda a rapist?
Do nice and clean cut people often end up before the courts?

I agree it wasn’t a surprise. But I don’t think even a “good guy” defendant would have changed the outcome.


The defendant that they hung their hat on was 100% the worst choice imaginable.

I don’t disagree about that part. Rahimi is a shitty human being. I just don’t think a normal person would have changed the outcome much.

Outside of Thomas, I don’t see any of them having the balls to be one of the Justices that voted to “give abusers back their guns”, no matter the defendant.


On the contrary, the specific defendant makes it easy for those not usually involved in firearms based civil rights to easy side with the court’s decision.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:29:48 AM EDT
[#26]
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I thought that Bruen stomped on that practice
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Usually DOJ points to the laws against Catholics, blacks, and indians owning/possessing firearms as their tradition of prohibited people. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re not still arguing that.

I thought that Bruen stomped on that practice

It has. That’s often still their default when looking for historical references to prohibited people.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:30:30 AM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:


Oh the irony of that coming from a cop...
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Quoted:
This thread is interesting in that we seem to have many here in the GD who for whatever reason are aggressively fearful of being accused (Falsely or accurately) of DV.


Oh the irony of that coming from a cop...


Pro tip: Don’t beat your fucking wife.  Pretty simple.  You don’t like this case because it possibly represents a direct threat to your income stream.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:31:42 AM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:


Pro tip: Don’t beat your fucking wife.  Pretty simple.  You don’t like this case because it represents a direct threat to your income stream.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This thread is interesting in that we seem to have many here in the GD who for whatever reason are aggressively fearful of being accused (Falsely or accurately) of DV.


Oh the irony of that coming from a cop...


Pro tip: Don’t beat your fucking wife.  Pretty simple.  You don’t like this case because it represents a direct threat to your income stream.


Did David Letterman beat his wife?  He had a DV Restraining order for sending a woman he never met coded messages several states away through his television program.  Yeah, sounds legit.

Imagine some Karen from some anti-gun group finds out the identities of people here.  They could do the same thing.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:32:29 AM EDT
[#29]
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This surprised anyone?
View Quote


Nope, not me. Saw that coming a mile away. And I’m a pretty optimistic kind of guy in real life.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:32:43 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


On the contrary, the specific defendant makes it easy for those not usually involved in firearms based civil rights to easy side with the court’s decision.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This should surprise NO ONE! The guy at the center of this was a domestic abuser and a drug dealer who had endangered the public numerous times by firing off guns in public. He is the LAST guy who we should be backing for having any sorts of rights.

Only INCELS and the can’t get laid brigade guys think its OK to beat your partner because your soup is cold.

Miller was a bank robber.
Wasn’t Miranda a rapist?
Do nice and clean cut people often end up before the courts?

I agree it wasn’t a surprise. But I don’t think even a “good guy” defendant would have changed the outcome.


The defendant that they hung their hat on was 100% the worst choice imaginable.

I don’t disagree about that part. Rahimi is a shitty human being. I just don’t think a normal person would have changed the outcome much.

Outside of Thomas, I don’t see any of them having the balls to be one of the Justices that voted to “give abusers back their guns”, no matter the defendant.


On the contrary, the specific defendant makes it easy for those not usually involved in firearms based civil rights to easy side with the court’s decision.



Your retort is that these judges made a decision that effects the most basic civil rights and through it away because they didn't like the defendant?
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:33:40 AM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:


Yep. I’ve been a witness in family court enough times that I’ve seen how the system is abused to disarm men.

Burkeva and I dated for three months. When I ended things he told me if he couldn’t have me he’d make sure no one could. He owns a bunch of guns and is active in online gun communities. I’m afraid he will kill me.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
This thread is interesting in that we seem to have many here in the GD who for whatever reason are aggressively fearful of being accused (Falsely or accurately) of DV.


Yep. I’ve been a witness in family court enough times that I’ve seen how the system is abused to disarm men.

Burkeva and I dated for three months. When I ended things he told me if he couldn’t have me he’d make sure no one could. He owns a bunch of guns and is active in online gun communities. I’m afraid he will kill me.


How much of that is reality versus how much of that is a baseless emotional fear that many here have?

Are there people who file for retaining orders and lie? Yes, absolutely. And if it can be proven those folks need to be prosecuted.  I’ve dated hundreds of women, been married and divorced and lead a very aggressive social life yet i have never once been accused of anything other than being great in bed.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:33:55 AM EDT
[#32]
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it might have gone the other way for us, had the "case" that they were brought been an actual outstanding citizen who got jammed by the system, instead of a criminal.
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I don't think so.  If you look at what they said in the opinion this type of case was always going to lose.  The SCOTUS wants the government to have the ability to deny rights to someone considered "dangerous".  It would have taken the case of a nearly perfect citizen, who never did anything wrong with partner, and was proven to had lied about abuse/violence been denied and then charged with possession.  In that very specific scenario the case might have had a better chance.  But I still think the justices would recognize that is a one off case and still send the message that "dangerous" people can be denied their rights.  They would rule on the idea of someone who was/is abusive even if in this case it was shown the guy was not.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:34:44 AM EDT
[#33]
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Yep. Read Thomas’s dissent. He is warning us all.
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Thomas should know….as the victim of a woman who made false allegations against him….that almost kept him from being appointed and confirmed as a Supreme Court justice.


Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:34:47 AM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:


Pro tip: Don’t beat your fucking wife.  Pretty simple.  You don’t like this case because it represents a direct threat to your income stream.
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This thread is interesting in that we seem to have many here in the GD who for whatever reason are aggressively fearful of being accused (Falsely or accurately) of DV.


Oh the irony of that coming from a cop...


Pro tip: Don’t beat your fucking wife.  Pretty simple.  You don’t like this case because it represents a direct threat to your income stream.


You don’t need to beat your wife yo catch a restraining order. You just need to be the target of a liar.

Cop have caught restraining orders from family members of people they arrested.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:35:23 AM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:
This thread is interesting in that we seem to have many here in the GD who for whatever reason are aggressively fearful of being accused (Falsely or accurately) of DV.
View Quote


I feel threatened. You own guns. I know what I need to do.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:35:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Additionally today, the Supreme Court rejected a challenge from conservative activists to a one-time tax on certain foreign investments, but left unresolved questions about whether some leading Democratic revenue-raising ideas are constitutional.

The decision on Thursday keeps intact a tax on accumulated foreign profits that Congress created in 2017 as part of then-President Donald Trump’s tax law, and it spares lawmakers the complications that could have arisen from a decision invalidating aspects of congressional taxing power.

The court, in an opinion by Justice Brett Kavanaugh, said the tax aligned with long- standing precedents and congressional practices by attributing income realized by an India-based corporation to its U.S. shareholders, the same “pass-through” approach used since 1962 for U.S.-controlled foreign companies.

From:   The Wall Street Journal, Friday, June 21, 2024
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:36:03 AM EDT
[#37]
My dad had a handgun and other stuff stolen by some guy that he hired on Craigslist to do stuff for him. My dad supposedly harassed and threatened the guy so he filed a restraining order against my dad and then the police came and took my dad's other handgun. Apparently this guy is known to the local authorities as a thief and shit bird. Only in America...

The only silver lining is that my dad is losing his mind (undiagnosed dementia) and really should not have any firearms in his possession anymore. He is combative and uncooperative and all around general self centered and narcissistic asshole when any of us children try to help him. We've all had to wash our hands of him, sadly.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:36:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Pro tip: Don’t beat your fucking wife.  Pretty simple.  You don’t like this case because it represents a direct threat to your income stream.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This thread is interesting in that we seem to have many here in the GD who for whatever reason are aggressively fearful of being accused (Falsely or accurately) of DV.


Oh the irony of that coming from a cop...


Pro tip: Don’t beat your fucking wife.  Pretty simple.  You don’t like this case because it represents a direct threat to your income stream.


In 20 years, I've maybe seen a real DV case where someone "beat" his wife maybe two times. This is out of hundreds. Some of the worst fake cases I've seen are against cops. Because their malicious SO knows that instantly fucks w/ their job.

I''d say the overwhelming majority of DV charges are bullshit.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:36:33 AM EDT
[#39]
This case was doomed from the start and no one should be surprised by the decision.  The starting point is the guy acknowledging that he represents a credible threat and then arguing that it shouldn’t matter.  

That’s much different than some in here are portraying.  The question of who represents a credible threat never comes up because it was never in debate.

In particular, the order must either contain a find-
ing that the defendant “represents a credible threat to the physical
safety” of his intimate partner or his or his partner’s child,
§922(g)(8)(C)(i), or “by its terms explicitly prohibit[ ] the use,” at-
tempted use, or threatened use of “physical force” against those indi-
viduals, §922(g)(8)(C)(ii). Rahimi concedes here that the restraining
order against him satisfies the statutory criteria, but argues that on
its face Section 922(g)(8) violates the Second Amendment.
View Quote
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:36:58 AM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:



Your retort is that these judges made a decision that effects the most basic civil rights and through it away because they didn't like the defendant?
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This should surprise NO ONE! The guy at the center of this was a domestic abuser and a drug dealer who had endangered the public numerous times by firing off guns in public. He is the LAST guy who we should be backing for having any sorts of rights.

Only INCELS and the can’t get laid brigade guys think its OK to beat your partner because your soup is cold.

Miller was a bank robber.
Wasn’t Miranda a rapist?
Do nice and clean cut people often end up before the courts?

I agree it wasn’t a surprise. But I don’t think even a “good guy” defendant would have changed the outcome.


The defendant that they hung their hat on was 100% the worst choice imaginable.

I don’t disagree about that part. Rahimi is a shitty human being. I just don’t think a normal person would have changed the outcome much.

Outside of Thomas, I don’t see any of them having the balls to be one of the Justices that voted to “give abusers back their guns”, no matter the defendant.


On the contrary, the specific defendant makes it easy for those not usually involved in firearms based civil rights to easy side with the court’s decision.



Your retort is that these judges made a decision that effects the most basic civil rights and through it away because they didn't like the defendant?


The actions of the defendant are at much in play as the overarching question of “should individuals convicted of DV be allowed to posses firearms?” No way any sane person would say that the defendants should continue to have 2A rights.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:37:25 AM EDT
[#41]
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Quoted:
I am not surprised that the ruling went the way it did ... but I am a little surprised that it was 8-1.
View Quote

It looks like conservative justices are ruling with the feels.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:38:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I feel threatened. You own guns. I know what I need to do.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
This thread is interesting in that we seem to have many here in the GD who for whatever reason are aggressively fearful of being accused (Falsely or accurately) of DV.


I feel threatened. You own guns. I know what I need to do.


LOL.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:38:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Well yeah. Analogous doesn't mean exact. Never did.

Not that I agree with this ruling at all because I don't think there were any analogous laws taking away guns based on some made up credible threat bullshit...

But the standard is always a widespread tradition of a gun law that was analogous to the law in question...

Which is still a very difficult test for the government to prove.

Bruen still stands strong. Even the majority opinion in Rahimi says on page 7 that the second amendment extends to all all bearable arms, even ones that were not invented during the time of the founding.

AWBs are going bye bye.
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This decision, which I have read, completely invalidates the text history and tradition standard in Bruen.

Bruen is essentially undone.

Now all they need is “historical analogue” which anti gun judges will interpret to mean any case or law they like. Oh a 1989 law in Owasso, Michigan banned turtle molesting on Tuesdays? Thats clear evidence that assault weapon bans are a OK.

This decision completely fucks up everything.


Did Rahimi give clarification on WHEN the historical analogue test must be applied? 1780s or late 1800s?

Big difference. And Thomas has always said 1780s. But Antonyuk, the Bruen II case up for cert now, (which is @nolocontendere 's case) is asking SCOTUS when the historical test should look to.

Did Rahimi answer this?


Rahmi invalidates it. You only need an analogue now. That term means nothing, so basically it is whatever that judge thinks is similar.

It cannot be overstated how bad this decision is. Even if they want to clarity this l, it’s now going to take ten years to make any progress.

The group that brought this case should be beaten to death with Hillary Clinton’s big dong.


Wait...even Bruen said the gov needs a widespread, historical analogue of a law to validate a modern law.

That's not new.


That deal just got altered in a big way. The government said today “never mind, something close is good enough.”


Well yeah. Analogous doesn't mean exact. Never did.

Not that I agree with this ruling at all because I don't think there were any analogous laws taking away guns based on some made up credible threat bullshit...

But the standard is always a widespread tradition of a gun law that was analogous to the law in question...

Which is still a very difficult test for the government to prove.

Bruen still stands strong. Even the majority opinion in Rahimi says on page 7 that the second amendment extends to all all bearable arms, even ones that were not invented during the time of the founding.

AWBs are going bye bye.


Wish you are right. But you are wrong.

Activist judges will say that you are analogous to a rock because you are both on earth, and therefore we can melt you and return you to the earth if it fits their agenda.

The left couldn’t deal with Bruen because it was too specific and defined. They now no longer have that problem.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:39:27 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


“They” is a sub group of the Pro 2A community that think that guys like the defendant should be armed. That is the they.
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This should surprise NO ONE! The guy at the center of this was a domestic abuser and a drug dealer who had endangered the public numerous times by firing off guns in public. He is the LAST guy who we should be backing for having any sorts of rights.

Only INCELS and the can’t get laid brigade guys think its OK to beat your partner because your soup is cold.

Miller was a bank robber.
Wasn’t Miranda a rapist?
Do nice and clean cut people often end up before the courts?

I agree it wasn’t a surprise. But I don’t think even a “good guy” defendant would have changed the outcome.


The defendant that they hung their hat on was 100% the worst choice imaginable.


“They”?

This wasn’t a gun right group seeking a plaintiff. This was defense attorneys doing their job


“They” is a sub group of the Pro 2A community that think that guys like the defendant should be armed. That is the they.

I don’t think it needs to be a 2A issue. Violent people should be locked inside a cage, or euthanized. Fixing the actual problems removes the need for prohibited persons laws.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:40:02 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Did Rahimi give clarification on WHEN the historical analogue test must be applied? 1780s or late 1800s?

Big difference. And Thomas has always said 1780s. But Antonyuk, the Bruen II case up for cert now, (which is @nolocontendere 's case) is asking SCOTUS when the historical test should look to.

Did Rahimi answer this?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
This decision, which I have read, completely invalidates the text history and tradition standard in Bruen.

Bruen is essentially undone.

Now all they need is “historical analogue” which anti gun judges will interpret to mean any case or law they like. Oh a 1989 law in Owasso, Michigan banned turtle molesting on Tuesdays? Thats clear evidence that assault weapon bans are a OK.

This decision completely fucks up everything.


Did Rahimi give clarification on WHEN the historical analogue test must be applied? 1780s or late 1800s?

Big difference. And Thomas has always said 1780s. But Antonyuk, the Bruen II case up for cert now, (which is @nolocontendere 's case) is asking SCOTUS when the historical test should look to.

Did Rahimi answer this?


Well they based it on surety laws from the 1700s
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:40:48 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
In December 2019, Rahimi met his girlfriend, C. M., for
lunch in a parking lot. C. M. is also the mother of Rahimi’s
young child, A. R. During the meal, Rahimi and C. M. be-
gan arguing, and Rahimi became enraged. Brief for United
States 2. C. M. attempted to leave, but Rahimi grabbed her
by the wrist, dragged her back to his car, and shoved her in,
causing her to strike her head against the dashboard.
When he realized that a bystander was watching the alter-
cation, Rahimi paused to retrieve a gun from under the pas
senger seat. C. M. took advantage of the opportunity to es-
cape. Rahimi fired as she fled, although it is unclear
whether he was aiming at C. M. or the witness. Rahimi
later called C. M. and warned that he would shoot her if she
reported the incident. Ibid.
Undeterred by this threat, C. M. went to court to seek a
restraining order. In the affidavit accompanying her appli-
cation, C. M. recounted the parking lot incident as well as
other assaults. She also detailed how Rahimi’s conduct had
endangered A. R. Although Rahimi had an opportunity to
contest C. M.’s testimony, he did not do so. On February 5,
2020, a state court in Tarrant County, Texas, issued a re-
straining order against him. The order, entered with the
consent of both parties, included a finding that Rahimi had
committed “family violence.” App. 2. It also found that this
violence was “likely to occur again” and that Rahimi posed
“a credible threat” to the “physical safety” of C. M. or A. R.
Id., at 2–3. Based on these findings, the order prohibited
Rahimi from threatening C. M. or her family for two years
or contacting C. M. during that period except to discuss
A. R. Id., at 3–7. It also suspended Rahimi’s gun license
for two years. Id., at 5–6. If Rahimi was imprisoned or
confined when the order was set to expire, the order would
instead terminate either one or two years after his release
date, depending on the length of his imprisonment. Id., at
6–7.
In May, however, Rahimi violated the order by approach-
ing C. M.’s home at night. He also began contacting her
through several social media accounts.
In November, Rahimi threatened a different woman with
a gun, resulting in a charge for aggravated assault with a
deadly weapon. And while Rahimi was under arrest for
that assault, the Texas police identified him as the suspect
in a spate of at least five additional shootings.

The first, which occurred in December 2020, arose from
Rahimi’s dealing in illegal drugs. After one of his customers
3Cite as: 602 U. S. ____ (2024)
Opinion of the Court
“started talking trash,” Rahimi drove to the man’s home
and shot into it. Brief for United States 3. While driving
the next day, Rahimi collided with another car, exited his
vehicle, and proceeded to shoot at the other car. Three days
later, he fired his gun in the air while driving through a
residential neighborhood. A few weeks after that, Rahimi
was speeding on a highway near Arlington, Texas, when a
truck flashed its lights at him. Rahimi hit the brakes and
cut across traffic to chase the truck. Once off the highway,
he fired several times toward the truck and a nearby car
before fleeing. Two weeks after that, Rahimi and a friend
were dining at a roadside burger restaurant. When the res-
taurant declined his friend’s credit card, Rahimi pulled a
gun and shot into the air.
The police obtained a warrant to search Rahimi’s resi-
dence. There they discovered a pistol, a rifle, ammunition—
and a copy of the restraining order.



Had this been an average person with a minor case, we may have seen a different outcome. When trash is pushed up into the courts, don't be surprised at the results.
View Quote


Was Rahimi ever charged with discharging a firearm within city limits?

Or unlawful use of a weapon?

Said another way….did he get his due process?  Did he get to face his accuser in open court and cross examine witnesses?


Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:41:42 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This case was doomed from the start and no one should be surprised by the decision.  The starting point is the guy acknowledging that he represents a credible threat and then arguing that it shouldn’t matter.  

That’s much different than some in here are portraying.  The question of who represents a credible threat never comes up because it was never in debate.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This case was doomed from the start and no one should be surprised by the decision.  The starting point is the guy acknowledging that he represents a credible threat and then arguing that it shouldn’t matter.  

That’s much different than some in here are portraying.  The question of who represents a credible threat never comes up because it was never in debate.

In particular, the order must either contain a find-
ing that the defendant “represents a credible threat to the physical
safety” of his intimate partner or his or his partner’s child,
§922(g)(8)(C)(i), or “by its terms explicitly prohibit[ ] the use,” at-
tempted use, or threatened use of “physical force” against those indi-
viduals, §922(g)(8)(C)(ii). Rahimi concedes here that the restraining
order against him satisfies the statutory criteria, but argues that on
its face Section 922(g)(8) violates the Second Amendment.



No, it falls exactly where we thought it did, everything he did warranted a trial and conviction.  None of it warranted a restraining order which automatically and permanently removed his rights via court order without a trial.  A method which is available against anyone at anytime for any reason.

The historical remedy against a threat was surety.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:43:00 AM EDT
[#48]
What happens if you lose all your guns in a tragic boating accident right after the bad break up?
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:43:39 AM EDT
[#49]
The worst part of the DV conviction prohibitions is that they cannot be undone. A felon can get rights back. There is no mechanism for a DV conviction restoration of rights - even if a prosecutor and judge want to because the facts warrant it. Could be a brother got in a fight w/ a brother. Guess what? Under most states, that's a family relationship and "DV". Seen lots of them. People 30 years later trying to get their 2A rights back, and they can't.

If you support this broad deprivation of gun rights, you're an authoritarian statist. Not much else to it.
Link Posted: 6/21/2024 11:44:05 AM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Was Rahimi ever charged with discharging a firearm within city limits?

Or unlawful use of a weapon?

Said another way….did he get his due process?  Did he get to face his accuser in open court and cross examine witnesses?


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
In December 2019, Rahimi met his girlfriend, C. M., for
lunch in a parking lot. C. M. is also the mother of Rahimi’s
young child, A. R. During the meal, Rahimi and C. M. be-
gan arguing, and Rahimi became enraged. Brief for United
States 2. C. M. attempted to leave, but Rahimi grabbed her
by the wrist, dragged her back to his car, and shoved her in,
causing her to strike her head against the dashboard.
When he realized that a bystander was watching the alter-
cation, Rahimi paused to retrieve a gun from under the pas
senger seat. C. M. took advantage of the opportunity to es-
cape. Rahimi fired as she fled, although it is unclear
whether he was aiming at C. M. or the witness. Rahimi
later called C. M. and warned that he would shoot her if she
reported the incident. Ibid.
Undeterred by this threat, C. M. went to court to seek a
restraining order. In the affidavit accompanying her appli-
cation, C. M. recounted the parking lot incident as well as
other assaults. She also detailed how Rahimi’s conduct had
endangered A. R. Although Rahimi had an opportunity to
contest C. M.’s testimony, he did not do so. On February 5,
2020, a state court in Tarrant County, Texas, issued a re-
straining order against him. The order, entered with the
consent of both parties, included a finding that Rahimi had
committed “family violence.” App. 2. It also found that this
violence was “likely to occur again” and that Rahimi posed
“a credible threat” to the “physical safety” of C. M. or A. R.
Id., at 2–3. Based on these findings, the order prohibited
Rahimi from threatening C. M. or her family for two years
or contacting C. M. during that period except to discuss
A. R. Id., at 3–7. It also suspended Rahimi’s gun license
for two years. Id., at 5–6. If Rahimi was imprisoned or
confined when the order was set to expire, the order would
instead terminate either one or two years after his release
date, depending on the length of his imprisonment. Id., at
6–7.
In May, however, Rahimi violated the order by approach-
ing C. M.’s home at night. He also began contacting her
through several social media accounts.
In November, Rahimi threatened a different woman with
a gun, resulting in a charge for aggravated assault with a
deadly weapon. And while Rahimi was under arrest for
that assault, the Texas police identified him as the suspect
in a spate of at least five additional shootings.

The first, which occurred in December 2020, arose from
Rahimi’s dealing in illegal drugs. After one of his customers
3Cite as: 602 U. S. ____ (2024)
Opinion of the Court
“started talking trash,” Rahimi drove to the man’s home
and shot into it. Brief for United States 3. While driving
the next day, Rahimi collided with another car, exited his
vehicle, and proceeded to shoot at the other car. Three days
later, he fired his gun in the air while driving through a
residential neighborhood. A few weeks after that, Rahimi
was speeding on a highway near Arlington, Texas, when a
truck flashed its lights at him. Rahimi hit the brakes and
cut across traffic to chase the truck. Once off the highway,
he fired several times toward the truck and a nearby car
before fleeing. Two weeks after that, Rahimi and a friend
were dining at a roadside burger restaurant. When the res-
taurant declined his friend’s credit card, Rahimi pulled a
gun and shot into the air.
The police obtained a warrant to search Rahimi’s resi-
dence. There they discovered a pistol, a rifle, ammunition—
and a copy of the restraining order.



Had this been an average person with a minor case, we may have seen a different outcome. When trash is pushed up into the courts, don't be surprised at the results.


Was Rahimi ever charged with discharging a firearm within city limits?

Or unlawful use of a weapon?

Said another way….did he get his due process?  Did he get to face his accuser in open court and cross examine witnesses?




It appears he got civil due process which is on par with what is used for a civil speeding ticket.  Anyone who has ever tried challenging one has seen what a clown show it is, there is absolutely no need to show truth beyond a reasonable doubt.
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