Surefire introduces 60 and 100-round quad-stack magazines for the AR15 - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Surefire introduces 60 and 100-round quad-stack magazines for the AR15 (Page 2 of 7)

Posted: 12/6/2010 1:53:09 AM EDT

[#1]

Looking at the diagram, I want to know what happens to #8 in the righthand picture that allows the follower assembly #20/21 to get to the position at the feedlips as shown on the lefthand picture.

And how do the shoulders at the shaded section at 'g' in the righthand picture fold up as shown in the left hand picture which allows the follower spring to end up at the top of the wide section of the mag (#3) lefthand picture.

It is a puzzlement to me.

ETA: And I'm wondering if there's going to be a 'Pre-ban' version of this mag before the legislation turns them all into 'Post-ban/illegal'?

Posted: 12/6/2010 1:55:57 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

That is too much weight to add to the rifle. 30 rounds is enough; if you can't get the job done with thirty, you need to work on your marksmanship skills.

Do you feel the same way about the redimag?

Posted: 12/6/2010 1:55:57 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

quickly, someone contact magpul, we need a polymer version with window and dust cover!!!!!

Magpul already has a quad stack mag designed. No idea on when it will be available. Probably not for a year or two.

Posted: 12/6/2010 1:58:03 AM EDT

[#4]

Looking at the diagram, I want to know what happens to #8 in the righthand picture that allows the follower assembly #20/21 to get to the position at the feedlips as shown on the lefthand picture.
And how do the shoulders at the shaded section at 'g' in the righthand picture fold up as shown in the left hand picture which allows the follower spring to end up at the top of the wide section of the mag (#3) lefthand picture.

It is a puzzlement to me.

You do know that patent drawings are meant to present the idea, not be used in manufacturing right?

Posted: 12/6/2010 1:58:40 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That is too much weight to add to the rifle. 30 rounds is enough; if you can't get the job done with thirty, you need to work on your marksmanship skills.

So I guess you don't think the M249 is worth a shit then eh?

The M249 does not perform the same role as the M16/M4

I carried an M249 for a few months, and I know what they are and are not good for.

The point of this is to have the M4 partially fill the role of an M249 in a pinch. It's not like you have to use the mag all the time either. This is just one more tool in the tool box. As far as the comment on carrying the M249, that's great. I have carried the para version, MK48, SOCOM M4a1 (which I would just change out uppers on depending on the mission and sometimes have the 203 or sometimes carry the HK 69a1), SR25, M40, M82a1, 416, Carl Gustav, MP5SD...,.... all of which are just additional tools in the tool box.

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:00:09 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/1228/82529pj4.jpg

Looking at the diagram, I want to know what happens to #8 in the righthand picture that allows the follower assembly #20/21 to get to the position at the feedlips as shown on the lefthand picture.
And how do the shoulders at the shaded section at 'g' in the righthand picture fold up as shown in the left hand picture which allows the follower spring to end up at the top of the wide section of the mag (#3) lefthand picture.

It is a puzzlement to me.

Probably some configuration of magnets. Fuckin' miracles all up in this bitch.

I like the 60 rounder, though. It strikes me as a good lead-off magazine, and then reload with thirty rounders from there on out. It's just cool to have 100% more "BRAP!" In every magazine. I don't know if it's $120 worth of cool, though, or however much the listed price is.

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:01:00 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Looking at the diagram, I want to know what happens to #8 in the righthand picture that allows the follower assembly #20/21 to get to the position at the feedlips as shown on the lefthand picture.

And how do the shoulders at the shaded section at 'g' in the righthand picture fold up as shown in the left hand picture which allows the follower spring to end up at the top of the wide section of the mag (#3) lefthand picture.

It is a puzzlement to me.

You do know that patent drawings are meant to present the idea, not be used in manufacturing right?

Yeah, I know it's not a shop drawing, but still, just because I can draw an asshole doesn't mean someone can make it fart.

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:02:20 AM EDT

[#8]

Surefire is a good company....

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:02:52 AM EDT

[#9]

Quad stack mags have been around for a while, at least as far back as the spectre. They work.

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:05:44 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

That is too much weight to add to the rifle. 30 rounds is enough; if you can't get the job done with thirty, you need to work on your marksmanship skills.

^

Someone that obviously has not seen the zombie documentaries.

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:06:29 AM EDT

[#11]

Cool if it works.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:07:31 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

In on one. Like everyone else I'll wait til the prices drop (or buy the Korean knock off).

$129 is a small price to pay for preparation for the zombie infestation.

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:09:50 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:

That is too much weight to add to the rifle. 30 rounds is enough; if you can't get the job done with thirty, you need to work on your marksmanship skills.

Don't know much about near ambush or break contact procedures, do you?

To me this seems like a natural fit for the IAR concept and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they developed the mags with that system in mind.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Seems to me that you don't know much about patrolling with an M16/M4. That is a lot of weight to lug around in your arms.

I guess it is a good thing our soldiers were never issued a 9.5 lb rifle.

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:09:58 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
That is too much weight to add to the rifle. 30 rounds is enough; if you can't get the job done with thirty, you need to work on your marksmanship skills.

Didn't Bill Ruger say something like that when he supported the AWB during Clinton's administration? I have never been in an ambush, but I'm not going to tell a soldier who is that he shouldn't have more than 30 rds. in a mag cuz he needs to learn how to shoot better

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:15:06 AM EDT

[#15]

The 60 rounders look hot. As long as they are reliable, I'd rig out a whole basic load like
that.

People underestimate how long, and, how awkward reloading can be under stress.
Anything to mitigate that is GTG with me. I usually carry two 30's on a mag coupler
anyways.

They can keep the 100 rounder. I don't think I'd like to risk IMTing with that thing on the bottom of
my rifle.

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:25:44 AM EDT

[#16]

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:34:52 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That is too much weight to add to the rifle. 30 rounds is enough; if you can't get the job done with thirty, you need to work on your marksmanship skills.

Didn't Bill Ruger say something like that when he supported the AWB during Clinton's administration? I have never been in an ambush, but I'm not going to tell a soldier who is that he shouldn't have more than 30 rds. in a mag cuz he needs to learn how to shoot better

Holy fuckballs!

Unleash the dogs of ARFCOM!!!!!

If this mag works for someone, by all means, use it. I am not saying that this mag has no use. Redimags, mag couplers, and 9000 round mags all have a use. However, fireteams work in teams. When working in teams, reload speed is far less important than many people will emphasize. Also, reloading should be done from cover; this also reduces the emphasis for speed.

If you are not in a team (or as I like to say, alone) and you get ambushed, you are dead. It does not matter how may rounds you have in your mag, they will shoot you before you have the chance to fire off a single round.

This is why I have put more weight on traditional roles of suppressive fire, and less on the rifleman. The SAW (or other suppressive fire tool (even the IAR))can keep the enemies head down (hopefully) while the riflemen reload. Teamwork.

Quoted:

I guess it is a good thing our soldiers were never issued a 9.5 lb rifle.

They weren't carrying nearly as much supplementary gear as current soldiers do.

In closing, I see 9000 round mags to have limited use. I do not claim that they are bad; only that they may not have many advantages over a 30 round mag. Sometimes less is more.

Case in point:

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:39:54 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/files/2010/12/SF-HCM_100_M4.jpg

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/surefire-hcm-announcement/60-round-1_0.jpg

Surefire just broke cover on their high capacity magazine project this weekend. They plan to show the magazines at SHOT Show, 2011. Their entry into the magazine market comes in two flavors, 60 and 100 rounds. The MAG5-100, $179, above, looks a bit unwieldy but the MAG5-60, $129, below looks a lot less intimidating.

I spoke with Derek McDonald, Surefire’s VP of Marketing, who called them “anti-ambush mags” because of the uninterrupted firepower they can provide during the critical, first 30 seconds of an ambush. He said, and later wrote in a press release, that “it takes the average soldier about 4 seconds to reload their weapon and reacquire a target. So, based on the rate of fire of a full-auto rifle, using 30-round magazines means a soldier can fire 150 rounds max in 30 seconds. But, with our 60-round mag he can fire 240 rounds in 30 seconds. And, 100-round magazine means about 300 rounds in the same time.”

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2010/12/06/surefire-introduces-the-john-holmes-of-rifle-magazines/

In case you've ever wondered how quad-stack mags work...

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/1228/82529pj4.jpg

their math is a little off...... 99% of american rifles dont fire full auto, only burst, and the average soldier only carries around 210 rounds of rifle ammo TOTAL...............but id like a few 60 round mags, isnt magpul supposed to be making some as well?

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:42:41 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
129.00 dollars for their mag? No thank you

It's cheaper than a Beta. It probably will not expode if dropped like a Beta. It probably allows for a normal grip with the support hand unlike the Beta. And it would probably fit into existing mag pouches better than a Beta.

I'd buy one. One or two less mag changes during a match is a good thing.

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:44:37 AM EDT

[#20]

Why don't they just make a replacement top for an ammo can so you can just bolt one up.

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:47:49 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
I love Ohio, but I hate the 30-round limit on magazines.

if 60-100 round mags become more common.... they might very well want a ban on over 30 round mags..... lmao...... ( was being sarcastic, until i realized you were being serious)

they actually have a 30 round LIMIT to magazines in ohio??? well thats kinda

, although as far as firearm limitations go, i guess i could live pretty well with that, ONLY 30 rounds

..

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:50:06 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

I'm waiting for the 800 round ocho-stack.

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/3954/sfhcm100m4.jpg

I lol'd.

Posted: 12/6/2010 2:57:52 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:

That is too much weight to add to the rifle. 30 rounds is enough; if you can't get the job done with thirty, you need to work on your marksmanship skills.

Didn't Bill Ruger say something like that when he supported the AWB during Clinton's administration? I have never been in an ambush, but I'm not going to tell a soldier who is that he shouldn't have more than 30 rds. in a mag cuz he needs to learn how to shoot better

Holy fuckballs!

Unleash the dogs of ARFCOM!!!!!

If this mag works for someone, by all means, use it. I am not saying that this mag has no use. Redimags, mag couplers, and 9000 round mags all have a use. However, fireteams work in teams. When working in teams, reload speed is far less important than many people will emphasize. Also, reloading should be done from cover; this also reduces the emphasis for speed.

If you are not in a team (or as I like to say, alone) and you get ambushed, you are dead. It does not matter how may rounds you have in your mag, they will shoot you before you have the chance to fire off a single round.

This is why I have put more weight on traditional roles of suppressive fire, and less on the rifleman. The SAW (or other suppressive fire tool (even the IAR))can keep the enemies head down (hopefully) while the riflemen reload. Teamwork.

Quoted:

I guess it is a good thing our soldiers were never issued a 9.5 lb rifle.

They weren't carrying nearly as much supplementary gear as current soldiers do.

In closing, I see 9000 round mags to have limited use. I do not claim that they are bad; only that they may not have many advantages over a 30 round mag. Sometimes less is more.

Case in point:

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/tacticoolAR15.jpg

I see through your clever ruse.

The flashhider on that rifle is not .mil issue.

Posted: 12/6/2010 3:01:35 AM EDT

[#24]

I might buy a 60 rounder just to have it if it's under $100. $130 is a bit too much though.

Posted: 12/6/2010 3:03:41 AM EDT

[#25]

I'll take a 60 rounder please.

Posted: 12/6/2010 3:03:49 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
The russkies beat us!

The Finns beat the russkies

Posted: 12/6/2010 3:14:57 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I'll take a 60 rounder please.

Posted: 12/6/2010 3:19:27 AM EDT

[#28]

I don't quite understand, I can get 40rds mags for $10 why would I spend $120 more for 20 extra rounds.

the math is:

$10/40rds= .25 per rd

$130/60rds= $2.17 per rd

Posted: 12/6/2010 3:39:23 AM EDT

[#29]

So, just to be clear, Renegade, you're saying that any soldier in an ambush or any other firefight, who doesn't have a guy with an M240 behind him, should just die?

Posted: 12/6/2010 3:45:13 AM EDT

[#30]

Those would be great on 3 Gun stages where the dickhead stage designer made it 32 or 40 rounds.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:04:45 AM EDT

[#31]

I'm picturing an FA AR Pistol with one of these and a couple more nearby.

It might not be accurate, but it'll damn sure get a bad guy to think twice about hanging around in your neighborhood.

Oddly, the extra weight might be a good ballast for a carbine in FA mode. I want. I don't know why I want, but I want.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:07:53 AM EDT

[#32]

Am I the only one here content with 20 round mags?????

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:11:52 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Am I the only one here content with 20 round mags?????

A person's sense of security is one of the first things to go when they get shot at.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:13:17 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
I might buy a 60 rounder just to have it if it's under $100. $130 is a bit too much though.

Fenix can probably produce one for $65.00.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:14:11 AM EDT

[#35]

Hmmmmmmmmm

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:14:44 AM EDT

[#36]

I would buy a couple of 60 rounders.................looks like a good idea.........now if we could get some of those 60 round Russkie mags

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:18:30 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
That is too much weight to add to the rifle. 30 rounds is enough; if you can't get the job done with thirty, you need to work on your marksmanship skills.

Why the fuck anyone cares why one may want a higher capacity mag is beyond me. I guess we should go back to 10 rounders for handguns cause if you can't do it in 10 rounds, you need to work on your marksmanship.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:18:34 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Am I the only one here content with 20 round mags?????

I like them just fine. If 30's weren't so damn cheap it would be all I use.

The Tactical Ninja crowd will buy these things like a fat girl going after chocolate. For every one that makes it into combat 5,000 will end up stuffed into some fat guy's closet. Surefire is counting on it.

Better to defend their cubicle don'cha know. The break room is murder at lunchtime.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:18:35 AM EDT

[#39]

Will it feed reliably after you give it to Joe? Joe can break anything.

Before I would buy it, they would have to demonstrate 100% reliable feeding in real world conditions. That means give it to a squad of Infantry and tell them to try and break shit.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:18:36 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
That is too much weight to add to the rifle. 30 rounds is enough; if you can't get the job done with thirty, you need to work on your marksmanship skills.

Don't know much about near ambush or break contact procedures, do you?

To me this seems like a natural fit for the IAR concept and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they developed the mags with that system in mind.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

+1

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:18:44 AM EDT

[#41]

The 60 rd. looks pretty cool

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:19:15 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
That is too much weight to add to the rifle. 30 rounds is enough; if you can't get the job done with thirty, you need to work on your marksmanship skills.

+1

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:21:33 AM EDT

[#43]

I teh wants. Both.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:22:25 AM EDT

[#44]

While we're all being extra retarded, let's remember that an extra 30 rounds of 5.56 weighs about 0.8 pounds.

OMG ALL THAT WEIGHT YOU'LL FALL OVER.

I can handle a dual mag setup very easily, and I'm built like an African chicken.

And if my calculations are correct, Surefire's solution won't even weigh as much as a dual mag setup.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:24:11 AM EDT

[#45]

Seems like they might be aiming at the IAR. I can't really see myself buying a 100 round magazine. A 60 rounder, maybe....but not a 100 rounder. If they are meant for the civilian market then SF is smoking some really good shit. In the days of cheap .223 it might have worked...but I don't think people are going to be lining up to do 100 round mag dumps again anytime soon.

Three gunners will love 'em, though.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:24:19 AM EDT

[#46]

The state of CA won't let me have those six times.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:28:11 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Seems like they might be aiming at the IAR. I can't really see myself buying a 100 round magazine. A 60 rounder, maybe....but not a 100 rounder. If they are meant for the civilian market then SF is smoking some really good shit. In the days of cheap .223 it might have worked...but I don't think people are going to be lining up to do 100 round mag dumps again anytime soon.

The 100 rounders are clearly a little fringe, but the 60 rounders seem very useful.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:32:32 AM EDT

[#48]

Now they need to come out with a mag coupler for the 100-rounders. No need to carry any ammo on your chest.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:34:49 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
I teh wants. Both.

Me, too.

Posted: 12/6/2010 4:35:26 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
The 100 rounders are clearly a little fringe, but the 60 rounders seem very useful.

I agree. A good reliable 60 round magazine would probably be welcomed in a lot of applications.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Surefire introduces 60 and 100-round quad-stack magazines for the AR15 (Page 2 of 7)

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