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Posted: 11/23/2022 9:35:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn’t watch.... Don’t care about fads or setting up guns to sit in the safe either. Go use your gear and the strengths and weaknesses become apparent. He can shoot and he puts in the work to improve but he comes off as a twit more often than not and square range training is what it is. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/86935/58703594-F82B-49E3-9DF1-25AEEAE38944_jpe-2610738.JPG But a youtoober is telling you his opinion. Watch it again. And then a 3rd time. Make sure you smash! that like button and subscribe. |
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Posted: 11/23/2022 9:39:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keywords were "when it comes to the ACOG"  Yes it's a legacy option. Just could use an update or two in my opinion. They could also do with updating their 1-4x scopes, but they are still great options even though their 1-6x outclass them in more than just magnification. Can we start with LED TA-44’s and TA-33’s? |
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Posted: 11/23/2022 9:42:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can we start with LED TA-44's and TA-33's? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Keywords were "when it comes to the ACOG" Yes it's a legacy option. Just could use an update or two in my opinion. They could also do with updating their 1-4x scopes, but they are still great options even though their 1-6x outclass them in more than just magnification. Can we start with LED TA-44's and TA-33's? They said no  |
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Posted: 11/23/2022 10:07:35 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let me ask Trijicon. They said no ASK AGAIN! ASK BETTER!!!!! |
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Posted: 11/23/2022 10:11:13 PM EDT
[#5]
The ACOG/RMR setup is great, but I've gone back to just an EOTech with no magnification. I just can't realistically see myself engaging someone or something at 200 yards or more. Domestically. I have a scoped rifle intended for four legged things at range.
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Posted: 11/23/2022 10:13:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ASK AGAIN! ASK BETTER!!!!! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Let me ask Trijicon. They said no ASK AGAIN! ASK BETTER!!!!! Let's try and get all the guntoobers to ask them. Maybe all that influence will get them to do something! |
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Posted: 11/23/2022 10:15:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These fads are so cyclic, one second its super high speed low drag LPVOs, now its red dots with tall mounts that are the same height as the 90's carry handle red dots, and now we are back to acogs with rmr's? Who else remembers all the guys saving up their money buying the top tier aimpoints and eotech's? Who else remembers matech sights? Damn. The gun industry just about perfected 1-10x LPVO's and now that's "not cool."  You got it. Just put whatever optic you like, and are comfortable with, on top of your rifle and run it. Anyone can come up with any situation(s) where one sighting system would be the best option. IMO there's really no need for a debate on this issue. Run what ya' brung. |
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Posted: 11/23/2022 10:17:35 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've got the RMR/ ACOG combo (specifically a 6.5 moa RMR and a 4x32 LED) but the RMR seems like it might be vulnerable to getting whacked hard. I'm not seeing much in the way of guards/ wings for protecting it. Are there any out there?? It’s fine. They’re VERY tough. If it’s properly installed you can repeatedly drop the shit out of it and toss it around without any loss of zero. Ask me how I know lol |
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Posted: 11/23/2022 10:25:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ASK AGAIN! ASK BETTER!!!!! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Let me ask Trijicon. They said no ASK AGAIN! ASK BETTER!!!!! Have Stephen call you.. |
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Posted: 11/23/2022 10:51:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: makes me rethink optics for my new rifle. I'm going to get a DD SLW rifle in a couple of weeks. 14.5" barrel, I was thinking among the lines of Leupold Patrol 6HD but the video is really making me reconsider that and getting an Acog TA02 with RMR. Would the Acog be good with my 14.5" bbl? @Requiem You are really going to like that SLW, mine is fantastic, accurate and a good in between rifle, well balanced and suppresses great. I had mine set up for a while now with a Trijicon Accupower 1-4 and while the scope added some weight, it was really a nice set up I had both the TA11 and TA33 and each has great eye relief. The 33 will minimize the added weight. If I did not need a diopter adjustment on magnified optics, I would have ACOGs across the board I think the V7 SLW and a TA33 would be an outstanding set up |
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Posted: 11/23/2022 11:25:02 PM EDT
[#11]
I waited so long my stuff is back in style I do wish trijicon or an aftermakert mount could place the red dot foward like the led model but for the fiber optic models. Bonus points if it was t-1 & acro footprint
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Posted: 11/23/2022 11:30:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here I am with my lowly MRO on my "all around" rifle because I know I'll never engage "targets at distance."  Quote HistoryQuoted: Here I am with my lowly MRO on my "all around" rifle because I know I'll never engage "targets at distance." Quoted: Whats it like being dead?  Quoted: The ACOG/RMR setup is great, but I've gone back to just an EOTech with no magnification. I just can't realistically see myself engaging someone or something at 200 yards or more. Domestically. I have a scoped rifle intended for four legged things at range. It's our funeral.
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Posted: 11/23/2022 11:51:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I waited so long my stuff is back in style I do wish trijicon or an aftermakert mount could place the red dot foward like the led model but for the fiber optic models. Bonus points if it was t-1 & acro footprint I think a lot of people would like top mounted dots better if the mounting options improved. There's a few cookie cutter types when a variety of heights are needed. The deciding factor in my keeping the g2 1-6 over the g3 1-10 and accupoint 1-6 was the low turret caps and matching reptilia mount. All 3 are nice scopes but the dot mount on the razor with a 1.42 mount is perfection. The way everything line's up I'd guess the mount was designed specifically for the g2 razor. 
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Posted: 11/23/2022 11:58:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think a lot of people would like top mounted dots better if the mounting options improved. There's a few cookie cutter types when a variety of heights are needed. The deciding factor in my keeping the g2 1-6 over the g3 1-10 and accupoint 1-6 was the low turret caps and matching reptilia mount. All 3 are nice scopes but the dot mount on the razor with a 1.42 mount is perfection. The way everything line's up I'd guess the mount was designed specifically for the g2 razor. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/519824/20221123_182937-2611610.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I waited so long my stuff is back in style I do wish trijicon or an aftermakert mount could place the red dot foward like the led model but for the fiber optic models. Bonus points if it was t-1 & acro footprint I think a lot of people would like top mounted dots better if the mounting options improved. There's a few cookie cutter types when a variety of heights are needed. The deciding factor in my keeping the g2 1-6 over the g3 1-10 and accupoint 1-6 was the low turret caps and matching reptilia mount. All 3 are nice scopes but the dot mount on the razor with a 1.42 mount is perfection. The way everything line's up I'd guess the mount was designed specifically for the g2 razor. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/519824/20221123_182937-2611610.jpg  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/23/2022 11:59:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem with whatever you have now is that you already have it. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 12:14:28 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't need it, but want to get me a mount to fit over this. Just because. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/20221123_195546_jpg-2611611.JPG After trying several different setups imo scopes with taller turrets are better with the mount canted outboard of the elevation turret. You won’t necessarily have to go all the way to 45 and can keep the form factor slimmer. It still works fine for passive but you can realistically only use your right tube. This is the reptilia 34mm mount which is taller. The 30 wouldn't clear a that big an objective.  |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 12:33:04 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have Stephen call you.. 87 |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 12:34:41 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After trying several different setups imo scopes with taller turrets are better with the mount canted outboard of the elevation turret. You won't necessarily have to go all the way to 45 and can keep the form factor slimmer. It still works fine for passive but you can realistically only use your right tube. This is the reptilia 34mm mount which is taller. The 30 wouldn't clear a that big an objective. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/519824/20221123_183916-2611619.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't need it, but want to get me a mount to fit over this. Just because. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/504436/20221123_195546_jpg-2611611.JPG After trying several different setups imo scopes with taller turrets are better with the mount canted outboard of the elevation turret. You won't necessarily have to go all the way to 45 and can keep the form factor slimmer. It still works fine for passive but you can realistically only use your right tube. This is the reptilia 34mm mount which is taller. The 30 wouldn't clear a that big an objective. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/519824/20221123_183916-2611619.jpg I want one that will clear vertically. Not so much for NODs or backup, but for when I'm at 10x. Point the dot at the target, drop my eye to the scope, and have the target within the field of view. I drop it to 2.5x and treat it like a fixed power up close without struggling, so I'm not too worried. Until I find one, sitting between 5-8x works pretty good dynamically for scanning and shooting. The FFP mill grid and dialing make it easy, I just want a little more speed down range. One I was looking at, that appears to maybe clear the turrets enough, is the Larue LT788. It's a 34mm with a step down insert to 30 included. Good chunk of change just to see if it works though. I could also just swap the mount like I've been planning for something with a mounting option built on top |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 12:50:29 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the info! I want one that will clear vertically. Not so much for NODs or backup, but for when I'm at 10x. Point the dot at the target, drop my eye to the scope, and have the target within the field of view. I drop it to 2.5x and treat it like a fixed power up close without struggling, so I'm not too worried. Until I find one, sitting between 5-8x works pretty good dynamically for scanning and shooting. The FFP mill grid and dialing make it easy, I just want a little more speed down range. One I was looking at, that appears to maybe clear the turrets enough, is the Larue LT788. It's a 34mm with a step down insert to 30 included. Good chunk of change just to see if it works though. I could also just swap the mount like I've been planning for something with a mounting option built on top Some of them have spacers available as well. Think I've seen them on the rmr style reptilia but not for the dpp version. Not sure if spacers are a stop gap or the way forward but they seem like they would be easier to produce in a variety heights. The reptilia rmr mounts are finally back in stock. I don't have time to screw with the swap right now but going to pick a mount up while they're in stock and swap out the dpp on the g2 eventually. Eta the reptilia spacers might or might not work on other mounts like the larue. The pattern is the same so I think it would but haven't seen it done. The combination of different mount heights and spacers once it's figured out will give people better options. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 2:11:07 AM EDT
[#20]
Guess my 10 year old accupoint 1-4 is really behind the curve.
It’s 90% as good as a red dot at 1x hosing (plus dots are hazy starbursts to be). The triangle is either a giant red dot or a precise aim point. And you get a much better usable image at 4x than any magnifier. The only spot it gives up ground to a red dot is dark room to lighted room (you’ll get a black bar only which works fine but isn’t a red dot) or the occasional really awkard shot will sometimes result in you just seeing the triangle and not the image. But otherwise the eyebox at 1x is huge and in any real light the triangle is too bright and needs to be dialed down. Plus it’s lightweight. And No batteries (eotech and lvpo battery lives SUCK) it’s always on. I don’t do NV stuff or shoot past 300. If I did another optic would be in order. You can get by engaging to 300 yards. Zero 2” high at 200 and you’ll hit +/-4” or so from 0-300 (using full speed (5.56 out of a 16” barrel). You can dial the thing for longer shots in a pinch but it’s not ideal. But the turrets do track very well so you can do multiple zeros. Yea you can shoot a target 300 yards away with no magnification but you need to be able to see and ID it. Any gun intended for outside use needs magnification as an option IMO. Dot plus magnifier works for many but not for my astigmatism no way no how. I don’t find BDC recticles that compelling. They are always a compromise. If I shot long range on the regular I’d probably use an actual precision scope with mil/mil dials and a red dot of some variety on top. The scope mounted at 1.35” for proper cheek weld and allowing the dot to not be too high up Or you can make use of return to zero mounts or hump an extra CQB 10.5” red dot upper for hosing. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 2:37:22 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haven’t got a chance to watch yet, but what are the thoughts on the fact the TA02 is LED? I’m actually shopping this setup right now and I’m torn between TA01 and a TA33. I wasn’t considering a TA02 because one of the main draws to the platform for me was not batteries. fiber optic for me was hell when shooting at my range. The targets are super bright in the vegas sun, but the optic is in shade of the covered shooting benches. Ended up being poorly iluminated / washed out. I went with the LED for my 2nd acog for that reason. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 2:55:22 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've noticed that shots out to 500Y are starting to become less common as ranges have started to close down. Plus a lot of guys just can't hit them so I can see why matches like PCSL, without long range, are becoming more popular. The guy who took 2nd ran a 1X as primary and a micro 3X prism on an offset: https://i.postimg.cc/nr0qmmGP/6-A47-B202-470-B-4-FB4-AA09-D70823-B8-B7-A1.jpg This is a cool concept. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 3:10:45 AM EDT
[#23]
I wish someone would make a lightweight, Fixed Power 6X Scope, designed to work in conjunction with a RMR.
It would be lighter and cheaper than a LPVO, and could probably be better optimized for eye relief then a 1-6. AUG with 3X fixed power scope + dot; think this but with a 6X in the form factor of a Razor or March F, for an AR. 
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Posted: 11/24/2022 3:44:00 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did a felony warrant service tonight on a guy that got into an argument with his girlfriend and threatened to kill any cops that showed up. I've shot in my plates a bunch of times. I've shot my carbine a bunch. I occasionally shoot in plates with a carbine. I wear my NODS a few times a month. I hunt or shoot a carbine under NODS a handful of times a year. But I realized tonight that it's VERY rare that I put on my medical fanny pack, plate carrier, ballistic helmet, NVG's, and use a carbine for exterior security and then go into a structure with a bunch of guys and gals waving around white light. I'm sure I looked cool, and I know I had the coolest toys on scene, but making all that shit work fluidly together (by carbine sling kept trying to knock my body cam off the magnet mount), was a complete cluster fuck. What I'm saying is that every optical sighting system has strengths and weaknesses. 90% of the time, unless you're a cola wars competitor or an active duty armed forces member with a shooter MOS, chances are, YOU are the weakest link in your performance, not the equipment you carry. I took a carbine class a few weeks ago and beat a group of about a dozen non-shooter type cops. At the end, they were like, "HKUSP9 won the end of class shooting competition because he has a LPVO and a break on his gun", and in my head I was like, "I almost LOST that fucking shoot because I knew I was going to go from standing to prone as soon as the buzzer went off and I didn't have my sling loose enough and had to fuck with it to get into position and I tried to take some 15 yard carbine shots with my LPVO still on 4 power." I beat the other guys because I had trained more than them, NOT because I had a fancy optic. Arguably, I probably would have shot a couple of seconds faster and still with acceptable accuracy if I was running just a regular dot. Moral of the story, the optic that every one of you already own is good enough, what we generally all lack is regular, physically strenuous training with all of our equipment under realistic scenarios. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 3:51:39 AM EDT
[#25]
I'll take a ffp lpvo personally. I LOVE my atacr
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Posted: 11/24/2022 7:11:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish someone would make a lightweight, Fixed Power 6X Scope, designed to work in conjunction with a RMR. It would be lighter and cheaper than a LPVO, and could probably be better optimized for eye relief then a 1-6. AUG with 3X fixed power scope + dot; think this but with a 6X in the form factor of a Razor or March F, for an AR. https://i.ibb.co/c8SgPCk/4950969.jpg  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 9:38:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did a felony warrant service tonight on a guy that got into an argument with his girlfriend and threatened to kill any cops that showed up. I’ve shot in my plates a bunch of times. I’ve shot my carbine a bunch. I occasionally shoot in plates with a carbine. I wear my NODS a few times a month. I hunt or shoot a carbine under NODS a handful of times a year. But I realized tonight that it’s VERY rare that I put on my medical fanny pack, plate carrier, ballistic helmet, NVG’s, and use a carbine for exterior security and then go into a structure with a bunch of guys and gals waving around white light. I’m sure I looked cool, and I know I had the coolest toys on scene, but making all that shit work fluidly together… (by carbine sling kept trying to knock my body cam off the magnet mount), was a complete cluster fuck. What I’m saying is that every optical sighting system has strengths and weaknesses. 90% of the time, unless you’re a cola wars competitor or an active duty armed forces member with a shooter MOS, chances are, YOU are the weakest link in your performance, not the equipment you carry. I took a carbine class a few weeks ago and beat a group of about a dozen non-shooter type cops. At the end, they were like, “HKUSP9 won the end of class shooting competition because he has a LPVO and a break on his gun”, and in my head I was like, “I almost LOST that fucking shoot because I knew I was going to go from standing to prone as soon as the buzzer went off and I didn’t have my sling loose enough and had to fuck with it to get into position and I tried to take some 15 yard carbine shots with my LPVO still on 4 power.” I beat the other guys because I had trained more than them, NOT because I had a fancy optic. Arguably, I probably would have shot a couple of seconds faster and still with acceptable accuracy if I was running just a regular dot. Moral of the story, the optic that every one of you already own is good enough, what we generally all lack is regular, physically strenuous training with all of our equipment under realistic scenarios. The tek lock BWC mounts are the best option for keeping the camera in place |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 9:46:50 AM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 11/24/2022 9:49:21 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Talk about jumping on the bandwagon. ACOG eye relief sucks, rmr is open emitter, yet that is one of the lightest and rugged general setups you can get... Everything has ups and downs. The main point in modern times is to get something better than irons. TA-11 master race says no. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 10:37:29 AM EDT
[#30]
TA11 and TA33 are best.
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Posted: 11/24/2022 11:12:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't watch the video so maybe this has been answered there .. When you do an ACOG + RMR combo what are your zeroes I'm guessing Acog : 50 yard zero RMR : 25 yard zero ? Its been a bit since I looked at my RMR under NODs. Is that a setup that you are going to hit things with beyond across the room ranges? I’m not HSLD whatsoever. I zeroed my ACOG for about 100 yds and the RMR for about 25 yds. Having the red dot more parallel to the bore was my goal. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 11:15:34 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish someone would make a lightweight, Fixed Power 6X Scope, designed to work in conjunction with a RMR. It would be lighter and cheaper than a LPVO, and could probably be better optimized for eye relief then a 1-6. AUG with 3X fixed power scope + dot; think this but with a 6X in the form factor of a Razor or March F, for an AR. https://i.ibb.co/c8SgPCk/4950969.jpg This. Really wanting to try a fixed power ~6x with a top mounted RDS for a general purpose rifle that can also do work passively at night. Just put together a TA02 with a T2 for this purpose, haven't shook it out yet but am looking forward to it. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 12:02:09 PM EDT
[#33]
So I know we're all experts here but has everyone actually looked through a 31? You can have your eye like a foot back and still see the full reticle. Viewed at the eye relief of a 33 the 31 has a very similar fov.
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Posted: 11/24/2022 12:20:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not HSLD whatsoever. I zeroed my ACOG for about 100 yds and the RMR for about 25 yds. Having the red dot more parallel to the bore was my goal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Didn't watch the video so maybe this has been answered there .. When you do an ACOG + RMR combo what are your zeroes I'm guessing Acog : 50 yard zero RMR : 25 yard zero ? Its been a bit since I looked at my RMR under NODs. Is that a setup that you are going to hit things with beyond across the room ranges? I’m not HSLD whatsoever. I zeroed my ACOG for about 100 yds and the RMR for about 25 yds. Having the red dot more parallel to the bore was my goal. This varies with barrel length, but for me the RMR is best with a 75yd zero. Below is my reasoning for my SBR with 62gr BTHP at 2760fps. While the RMR for me is primarily for snap shooting and moving, it is still more than adequate for 200yds and in. But the 25yd zero is off by enough to cause a miss even inside 100. The important part is the height over bore at 4.25” throws all the normal thumb rules off by a lot. 25yds  50yds  75yds  100yds  For the ACOG. You need to know your bullet and velocity. For my rifle a 50yd zero with the horseshoe is great, as is the 100yd zero with the m193 chevron. The right answer depends on your information. Not to beat a dead horse but please don’t buy a BDC reticle unless you know your velocity or use a standardized setup (16” barrel/XM193 for example). If I have my labradar at the range I would be happy to give someone a chance to get their velocity and most would do the same. Find an opportunity to chronograph your rifle with your most accurate ammo THEN go pick a reticle.   -Mike |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 12:59:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These fads are so cyclic, one second its super high speed low drag LPVOs, now its red dots with tall mounts that are the same height as the 90's carry handle red dots, and now we are back to acogs with rmr's? Who else remembers all the guys saving up their money buying the top tier aimpoints and eotech's? Who else remembers matech sights? Damn. The gun industry just about perfected 1-10x LPVO's and now that's "not cool." was a bunch of threads and videos saying acog is dead, or is it still relevant. having all the options is better than one or two as they do not work for everyone. I never got to look through a real acog. they work great in video games. but nobody has one on the shelf around me. so never tried one. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 1:10:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Never liked the acog. The whole fixed magnification thing and cqb. Never liked it.
Like my dots for that. General purpose at realistic range, I like my lpvo with rds mounted for NV. I mean, I don't know shit about magnified optics ( learning) but, with my vision it's titts. The rds addition for NV covers what I need optic wise. Lpvo for my shitty vision, I'm old, and dot for NV. It's a work in progress. I'm too busy training with my gear to worry about what some range rat is saying. Ymmv. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 2:11:12 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guess my 10 year old accupoint 1-4 is really behind the curve. It’s 90% as good as a red dot at 1x hosing (plus dots are hazy starbursts to be). The triangle is either a giant red dot or a precise aim point. And you get a much better usable image at 4x than any magnifier. The only spot it gives up ground to a red dot is dark room to lighted room (you’ll get a black bar only which works fine but isn’t a red dot) or the occasional really awkard shot will sometimes result in you just seeing the triangle and not the image. But otherwise the eyebox at 1x is huge and in any real light the triangle is too bright and needs to be dialed down. Plus it’s lightweight. And No batteries (eotech and lvpo battery lives SUCK) it’s always on. I don’t do NV stuff or shoot past 300. If I did another optic would be in order. You can get by engaging to 300 yards. Zero 2” high at 200 and you’ll hit +/-4” or so from 0-300 (using full speed (5.56 out of a 16” barrel). You can dial the thing for longer shots in a pinch but it’s not ideal. But the turrets do track very well so you can do multiple zeros. Yea you can shoot a target 300 yards away with no magnification but you need to be able to see and ID it. Any gun intended for outside use needs magnification as an option IMO. Dot plus magnifier works for many but not for my astigmatism no way no how. I don’t find BDC recticles that compelling. They are always a compromise. If I shot long range on the regular I’d probably use an actual precision scope with mil/mil dials and a red dot of some variety on top. The scope mounted at 1.35” for proper cheek weld and allowing the dot to not be too high up Or you can make use of return to zero mounts or hump an extra CQB 10.5” red dot upper for hosing. The Accupoint was something I picked up in a trade about 10 years ago also, and it was what started my conversion to LPVO. Still a usable scope, with obvious limitations due to reticle, but I ain’t getting rid of it either. I then carried an Accupower 1-4 BDC as a work gun for a couple of years, and training with it from 0-500, with unknown distances in between quickly highlighted the shortcomings of the BDC and SFP, especially for any precise work. I have since stepped up to a Credo 1-8 MRAD FFP, and while it’s a chunky boy, it is very capable from point blank to 500. Probably beyond that, but I haven’t trained past that distance with it. It does require knowing your muzzle velocities, your environmental conditions, and your reticle to be usable, so it is a steeper curve compared to a fixed power BDC that’s kind of plug and play. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 2:17:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Accupoint was something I picked up in a trade about 10 years ago also, and it was what started my conversion to LPVO. Still a usable scope, with obvious limitations due to reticle, but I ain't getting rid of it either. I then carried an Accupower 1-4 BDC as a work gun for a couple of years, and training with it from 0-500, with unknown distances in between quickly highlighted the shortcomings of the BDC and SFP, especially for any precise work. I have since stepped up to a Credo 1-8 MRAD FFP, and while it's a chunky boy, it is very capable from point blank to 500. Probably beyond that, but I haven't trained past that distance with it. It does require knowing your muzzle velocities, your environmental conditions, and your reticle to be usable, so it is a steeper curve compared to a fixed power BDC that's kind of plug and play. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Guess my 10 year old accupoint 1-4 is really behind the curve. It's 90% as good as a red dot at 1x hosing (plus dots are hazy starbursts to be). The triangle is either a giant red dot or a precise aim point. And you get a much better usable image at 4x than any magnifier. The only spot it gives up ground to a red dot is dark room to lighted room (you'll get a black bar only which works fine but isn't a red dot) or the occasional really awkard shot will sometimes result in you just seeing the triangle and not the image. But otherwise the eyebox at 1x is huge and in any real light the triangle is too bright and needs to be dialed down. Plus it's lightweight. And No batteries (eotech and lvpo battery lives SUCK) it's always on. I don't do NV stuff or shoot past 300. If I did another optic would be in order. You can get by engaging to 300 yards. Zero 2" high at 200 and you'll hit +/-4" or so from 0-300 (using full speed (5.56 out of a 16" barrel). You can dial the thing for longer shots in a pinch but it's not ideal. But the turrets do track very well so you can do multiple zeros. Yea you can shoot a target 300 yards away with no magnification but you need to be able to see and ID it. Any gun intended for outside use needs magnification as an option IMO. Dot plus magnifier works for many but not for my astigmatism no way no how. I don't find BDC recticles that compelling. They are always a compromise. If I shot long range on the regular I'd probably use an actual precision scope with mil/mil dials and a red dot of some variety on top. The scope mounted at 1.35" for proper cheek weld and allowing the dot to not be too high up Or you can make use of return to zero mounts or hump an extra CQB 10.5" red dot upper for hosing. The Accupoint was something I picked up in a trade about 10 years ago also, and it was what started my conversion to LPVO. Still a usable scope, with obvious limitations due to reticle, but I ain't getting rid of it either. I then carried an Accupower 1-4 BDC as a work gun for a couple of years, and training with it from 0-500, with unknown distances in between quickly highlighted the shortcomings of the BDC and SFP, especially for any precise work. I have since stepped up to a Credo 1-8 MRAD FFP, and while it's a chunky boy, it is very capable from point blank to 500. Probably beyond that, but I haven't trained past that distance with it. It does require knowing your muzzle velocities, your environmental conditions, and your reticle to be usable, so it is a steeper curve compared to a fixed power BDC that's kind of plug and play.
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Posted: 11/24/2022 2:27:57 PM EDT
[#39]
I was way ahead of the curve back in 2006...
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Posted: 11/24/2022 2:32:18 PM EDT
[#40]
soooo acogs are cool again? thought they were dead last year... this dude will change his mind with a new vid in a few months.
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Posted: 11/24/2022 2:44:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was way ahead of the curve back in 2006... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/68413/middy_8-10-2006_0002-2612154.jpg Just parallel lines with some perpendicular ones crossing back and forth between them |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 2:56:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @knightzone which LPVO is perfected? serious question. I have a 14.5" rifle coming in 2 weeks that I want to put a damn good optic on. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: These fads are so cyclic, one second its super high speed low drag LPVOs, now its red dots with tall mounts that are the same height as the 90's carry handle red dots, and now we are back to acogs with rmr's? Who else remembers all the guys saving up their money buying the top tier aimpoints and eotech's? Who else remembers matech sights? Damn. The gun industry just about perfected 1-10x LPVO's and now that's "not cool." @knightzone which LPVO is perfected? serious question. I have a 14.5" rifle coming in 2 weeks that I want to put a damn good optic on. Vortex gen3 1x10. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 3:05:14 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 11/24/2022 3:15:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryIn my opinion, the reticle needs to be fast on 1x without relying on illumination. I don't like relying on batteries to make something usable. PA's 1-8 compact does it better than the Razor 1-10. Really draws the eyes to the center. Stole pics from google Razor  Attached FilePA  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 3:46:16 PM EDT
[#45]
I’ll stick with my 1-8x thanks.
Low percentage shots, spotting and target ID are a thing when you’re fighting real humans in a blown out city and not cardboard cut outs on a manicured range. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 3:48:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Vortex gen3 1x10. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: These fads are so cyclic, one second its super high speed low drag LPVOs, now its red dots with tall mounts that are the same height as the 90's carry handle red dots, and now we are back to acogs with rmr's? Who else remembers all the guys saving up their money buying the top tier aimpoints and eotech's? Who else remembers matech sights? Damn. The gun industry just about perfected 1-10x LPVO's and now that's "not cool." @knightzone which LPVO is perfected? serious question. I have a 14.5" rifle coming in 2 weeks that I want to put a damn good optic on. Vortex gen3 1x10. I don't think we can ever really say the LPVO has been 'perfected' until battery life is boosted to that of whats available in RDS and Prism based optics. RDS = 20,000-50,000hrs Prism = 3,000-20,000hrs LPVO = 150-500hrs To me thats the final frontier for LPVO development. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 3:55:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll stick with my 1-8x thanks. Low percentage shots, spotting and target ID are a thing when you’re fighting real humans in a blown out city and not cardboard cut outs on a manicured range. So is field of view… there are always trade offs. You just have to pick what you are willing to sacrifice for what gain. There are advantages to all and none of them are “wrong”… except maybe the guys with an LPVO that exclusively use an RMR for 1x. I can’t get onboard with that one, just get a regular mpvo and a piggybacked dot. -Mike |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 4:02:51 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll stick with my 1-8x thanks. Low percentage shots, spotting and target ID are a thing when you’re fighting real humans in a blown out city and not cardboard cut outs on a manicured range. Thats absolutely what I would have expected. Whats funny is most of the actual rifle fights I've seen in video from Ukraine though have been at almost handgun distances - clearing buildings, trenches, outhouses. Even ambushes seem to be conducted within 100yd - one I saw where the guy was running a RDS + 3X magnifier, the magnifier was not used. When gunfighting (ie shots being exchanged between parties) videos show guy popping out for 1-3 seconds and firing hurried rounds then ducking behind cover. This of course could simply be 'camera bias' - only close range gunfights being able to be effectively recorded by something like a Go-Pro. But it has made me think that perhaps most 'real' gunfighting outside of Afghanistan is up close and hasty. Thats also in-line with the ACR rifle trials results - hit probability against moving/pop up targets with the M16 w/ ACOG / ELCAN were only marginally better than hits probabilities with Irons. |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 5:09:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is one premium 1-10x LPVO and it is garbage at anything over 6x. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: These fads are so cyclic, one second its super high speed low drag LPVOs, now its red dots with tall mounts that are the same height as the 90's carry handle red dots, and now we are back to acogs with rmr's? Who else remembers all the guys saving up their money buying the top tier aimpoints and eotech's? Who else remembers matech sights? Damn. The gun industry just about perfected 1-10x LPVO's and now that's "not cool." There is one premium 1-10x LPVO and it is garbage at anything over 6x. Which one? |
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Posted: 11/24/2022 5:19:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: I wish someone would make a lightweight, Fixed Power 6X Scope, designed to work in conjunction with a RMR. It would be lighter and cheaper than a LPVO, and could probably be better optimized for eye relief then a 1-6. AUG with 3X fixed power scope + dot; think this but with a 6X in the form factor of a Razor or March F, for an AR. https://i.ibb.co/c8SgPCk/4950969.jpg You might be able to find a used Leupold 6x, or even 4x, to try it out. Didn't Leupold used to have a custom shop that could change reticles? |
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