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Posted: 12/14/2022 11:41:19 PM EDT
[#1]
(Duped edit)
ETA: for those who may not know, a Company-sized operation occupies A LOT of battle space. At minimum dispersion, a company column is almost a kilometer long. If this is open-ish terrain, with good illumination, we are talking probably a square kilometer of space. The element of surprise is likely lost even if the team doesn’t engage. |
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Posted: 12/14/2022 11:52:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you're going to compromise the mission by opening fire? I've literally had someone who was wearing NVGs step over me as I lay in the prone after a patrol rolled up on my OP. Is it possible that you could simply go to ground and hide? Fair points. I was thinking of this as a 'wargame'; miniature and board wargames generally don't have scenarios where 'do nothing' is an optimal strategy. As to the part in red, damned if I know. As mentioned, I'm a civilian. My 'field' experience is limited to the occasional hike and paintball years and years ago. I don't have enough experience to make reasonable assessments about 'our' ability to hide from opposition troops. With my level of knowledge and experience as of right this minute, I think I'd rather gamble on an ambush being successful and dealing with the fallout than depending on my nil judgement on whether or not we can manage to keep out of sight of these (and possibly trailing) troops. I am aware that my utter lack of experience is also true for determining if 'is launching the ambush a good idea' too, so really I'm probably still being biased towards action. Though, to be completely honest, if I Quantum Leaped into this poor soldiers body, I'd probably just sit and hope nothing happened. This is a lot of typing to say "I dunno".  |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 12:07:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i'm out of my lane here, but wouldn't letting them pass be the direct opposite of the main purpose of your team which is guarding the left flank? Probably. I'm just a tech consultant who likes puzzles. On the other hand, we can't confuse our squad's assignment with our whole group's mission, and this is a perfect scenario to put the two at odds. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 12:17:12 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @MidniteRide @Ak4784 @KC-ROUGHNECK I’d order my SAW gunners to full send it. Everyone else would sit back and yeet grenades like Patrick Mahomes. Once the smoke clears we would get that loot and move on the the primary objective  That’s my 2 min command decision lol |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 12:17:44 AM EDT
[#5]
Since i only had two minutes,
Signal hasty ambush and concentrate fire on their RTO and Machine gunner. With that terrain and the likelihood you’ll be spotted by moving, its best to hammer them before they see you and do the exact same. If the radio itself survives maybe try to pass it off as suppressing an enemy patrol and plant false intel. That crossing is its own chokepoint and you might as well use it. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 12:20:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you're going to compromise the mission by opening fire? I've literally had someone who was wearing NVGs step over me as I lay in the prone after a patrol rolled up on my OP. Is it possible that you could simply go to ground and hide? MY mission is to protect the left flank of this advancing column from attack/infiltration. How would letting this enemy element pass through my position and make its way between me and the main force be fulfilling my mission? Especially when my radioless ass has no way of communicating their presence to the main column? UNLESS We let them pass, the kill them from behind using our knives and suppressed Mk 23's like in that Tears of the Sun movie. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 12:26:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Since the SAW gunner already ID'd them as enemy the whole talk about missing or lost squad is meaningless.
As my group is to provide flank security I have to either send a message/runner to the main group or open up to protect the main group. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 12:33:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The mission isn't "stay concealed in an OP" MY mission is to protect the left flank of this advancing column from attack/infiltration. How would letting this enemy element pass through my position and make its way between me and the main force be fulfilling my mission? Especially when my radioless ass has no way of communicating their presence to the main column? UNLESS We let them pass, the kill them from behind using our knives and suppressed Mk 23's like in that Tears of the Sun movie. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you're going to compromise the mission by opening fire? I've literally had someone who was wearing NVGs step over me as I lay in the prone after a patrol rolled up on my OP. Is it possible that you could simply go to ground and hide? MY mission is to protect the left flank of this advancing column from attack/infiltration. How would letting this enemy element pass through my position and make its way between me and the main force be fulfilling my mission? Especially when my radioless ass has no way of communicating their presence to the main column? UNLESS We let them pass, the kill them from behind using our knives and suppressed Mk 23's like in that Tears of the Sun movie. Ok, good. So we are looking at 2nd and 3rd order effects of what happens if you don't engage and no one knows they are there, right? |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 1:07:04 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, good. So we are looking at 2nd and 3rd order effects of what happens if you don't engage and no one knows they are there, right? More likely; they bump into another of our elements. Unlike us, this other element DOES expect friendlies to its left, so there could be some real confusion in terms of IFF. It's also important to consider that this enemy team doesn't have to fire a shot to fuck our attack. They only have to live long enough to send out a radio call. If they detect our main element first, then they can go to ground and make the call. If there's mutual surprise between elements, the aforementioned IFF confusion gives the enemy an advantage, and the gunfire fucks our surprise. Even if our main element is notified about the infiltrators, the gunfire fucks us. There are very few, highly unlikely scenarios that end with surprise being maintained. The enemy got lucky; their patrol was in the right place at the right time, and did it's job. Sucks for their dudes, though. Light 'em up. FWIW, I'm no longer thinking of the seconds before the contact. My scenario is now defending my decision during the ass chewing/court martial session following RTB.
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Posted: 12/15/2022 1:32:55 AM EDT
[#10]
Attempt a hasty ambush drill, if detected engage. If not, once in position engage. Once the kill zone has ceased all movement and fire, cease fire and contact squad leader/platoon leader. request further instruction.
I should add only engage if engaged as the team moves into a hasty ambush position, and if in position only after after a PID. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 1:47:16 AM EDT
[#11]
These are fun.
Noise discipline and surprise are kind of out the window, we can't let the enemy in behind the rest of our group, with the good night time visibility they may spot my fireteam at any moment. Order the SAW gunner to take a position at the base of the tree(s?)/slight rise he's near and get ready to light them up. The rifleman and I will engage them from the east and try to bottle them in the creekbed while the SAW gunner and assistant engage from the south. Rifleman and I will target the radio operator first, everyone opens up after I shoot - or if it looks like someone on opfor notices us and is about to react. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 2:20:39 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Best case scenario, they don't detect our column and stumble back away from us; none the wiser. More likely; they bump into another of our elements. Unlike us, this other element DOES expect friendlies to its left, so there could be some real confusion in terms of IFF. It's also important to consider that this enemy team doesn't have to fire a shot to fuck our attack. They only have to live long enough to send out a radio call. If they detect our main element first, then they can go to ground and make the call. If there's mutual surprise between elements, the aforementioned IFF confusion gives the enemy an advantage, and the gunfire fucks our surprise. Even if our main element is notified about the infiltrators, the gunfire fucks us. There are very few, highly unlikely scenarios that end with surprise being maintained. The enemy got lucky; their patrol was in the right place at the right time, and did it's job. Sucks for their dudes, though. Light 'em up. FWIW, I'm no longer thinking of the seconds before the contact. My scenario is now defending my decision during the ass chewing/court martial session following RTB. That after the fact ass chewing is something that really should be considered- not the chewing itself, but rather at least in as far as "what are the ultimate consequences of x". |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 2:20:49 AM EDT
[#13]
Rifleman have an M203?
if so, he hits the radioman with a quickness. if not, the guy who does, does. the explosion is the go code for Big Steve with the SAW. FT leader takes a step backwards to assess, contact support, move . . . leader shit. *I'm assuming as you've got clear visibility and your making out the radioman, you can tell they're hostile. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 2:41:53 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is where I'm landing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sounds like the mission just turned into a Movement to Contact. At 30m, you're in contact. Execute Battle Drill 1A(-). Your task as left flank security has paid off for the main element. Hopefully the commander planned accordingly. Yep. At 30m & closing you’re already in contact. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 7:04:27 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you're just going to destroy the element of surprise in your follow on assault? Quote HistoryQuoted: So you're just going to destroy the element of surprise in your follow on assault? Quoted: So you're going to compromise the mission by opening fire? I've literally had someone who was wearing NVGs step over me as I lay in the prone after a patrol rolled up on my OP. Is it possible that you could simply go to ground and hide? Yes. Absolutely yes. We do not want an enemy element running around in our rear to either attack us on the objective or on our way back. The pl will have to decide if we move to the obj or call ot a night. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 8:01:08 AM EDT
[#16]
If there are seven pax 30 meters away, and there is enough illume to ID a radio on an RTO...there are no FRAGOs.
Move silently to nearest cover, like a tree, throw a frag if you can reach. If not, open fire. This is a chance contact. Team leader: follow me and do as I do. It will be squad on enemy team shortly. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 8:12:28 AM EDT
[#17]
For those who want to try and avoid a fight- what happens if they are the lead trace of a larger element? And you just let them past? People have suggested the danger of their radio, but what if this is an enemy company?
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Posted: 12/15/2022 8:46:50 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rifleman have an M203? if so, he hits the radioman with a quickness. if not, the guy who does, does. the explosion is the go code for Big Steve with the SAW. FT leader takes a step backwards to assess, contact support, move . . . leader shit. *I'm assuming as you've got clear visibility and your making out the radioman, you can tell they're hostile. I feel like too many people are placing a lot of faith in 40mm and hand grenades. Personally, I'm shooting the radioman in the fucking face at that distance before any explosives are used to OODA loop the rest of the team. There are too many variables involved with weaker boom booms and I want to make damn sure no cry for help is going out. A head shot at <50 meters is cake. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 8:50:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those who want to try and avoid a fight- what happens if they are the lead trace of a larger element? And you just let them past? People have suggested the danger of their radio, but what if this is an enemy company? That's a shit sandwich whether you avoid the fight or not. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 9:38:20 AM EDT
[#20]
1) Maintain position, attempt to ID.
2) If they are enemy troops, light them up. If they find the main force and can radio the information, the larger group is screwed. 3) The larger group may need it withdraw but they live to fight another day. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 9:42:57 AM EDT
[#21]
Can we assume the AG will find the SAW once he starts firing?
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Posted: 12/15/2022 9:50:59 AM EDT
[#22]
One more thing. Actions on contact should have been briefed during the op order.
The whole point of battle drills and briefing is to have plans in place that are second nature to execute when seconds count. Where's the OPORD we would have received before this operation Ben
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Posted: 12/15/2022 9:55:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One more thing. Actions on contact should have been briefed during the op order. The whole point of battle drills and briefing is to have plans in place that are second nature to execute when seconds count. Where's the OPORD we would have received before this operation Ben You think a unit that doesn't have working comms practiced a cohesive battle drill?
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Posted: 12/15/2022 9:59:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those who want to try and avoid a fight- what happens if they are the lead trace of a larger element? And you just let them past? People have suggested the danger of their radio, but what if this is an enemy company? well, then you're screwed Apply maximum violence and die loudly with luck, your friends hear and can act with knowledgeable *or run or surrender should the situation permit or dictate that |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 10:06:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Given where they are coming from they aren't likely friendly. Would think if I could ID one as having a radio, I could also ID them as friendly or not.
With good visibility and the enemy at 30 meters, the element of surprise isn't going to last. They are coming right at us and I would assume ANY movement would blow our position. Someone on our side needs to start shooting. As TL, probably get the party started with a 40mm. Can hopefully drop one with the 40mm and shoot another before the enemy can really react. If my rifleman and SAW gunner can also each drop one on initiation, I like our odds. Not sure how far from the rest of the company we are, I'd assume fairly close. If more enemy show up, hopefully our friends are coming too. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 10:11:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those who want to try and avoid a fight- what happens if they are the lead trace of a larger element? And you just let them past? People have suggested the danger of their radio, but what if this is an enemy company? Shit sandwich is right. Are we large enough to fight that successfully if true? I suppose the glass half full perspective there is that we're into their shit as much as they're into ours, but they don't know it just yet. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 10:17:36 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I feel like too many people are placing a lot of faith in 40mm and hand grenades. Personally, I'm shooting the radioman in the fucking face at that distance before any explosives are used to OODA loop the rest of the team. There are too many variables involved with weaker boom booms and I want to make damn sure no cry for help is going out. A head shot at <50 meters is cake. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Rifleman have an M203? if so, he hits the radioman with a quickness. if not, the guy who does, does. the explosion is the go code for Big Steve with the SAW. FT leader takes a step backwards to assess, contact support, move . . . leader shit. *I'm assuming as you've got clear visibility and your making out the radioman, you can tell they're hostile. I feel like too many people are placing a lot of faith in 40mm and hand grenades. Personally, I'm shooting the radioman in the fucking face at that distance before any explosives are used to OODA loop the rest of the team. There are too many variables involved with weaker boom booms and I want to make damn sure no cry for help is going out. A head shot at <50 meters is cake. My reasoning for opening with 40mm is it will draw the other fire teams attention to the impact, rather than the gunshots coming from my fire team. Otherwise, I agree. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 10:29:09 AM EDT
[#28]
Also, what exactly are we supposed to be attacking? Opposing troops? Supply depot? Airstrip? Something guarded or unguarded?
And, is the enemy a nation's military or something else? Terrorists? Militia? Some billionaire's private mercenaries? |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 10:38:38 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shit sandwich is right. Are we large enough to fight that successfully if true? I suppose the glass half full perspective there is that we're into their shit as much as they're into ours, but they don't know it just yet. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For those who want to try and avoid a fight- what happens if they are the lead trace of a larger element? And you just let them past? People have suggested the danger of their radio, but what if this is an enemy company? Shit sandwich is right. Are we large enough to fight that successfully if true? I suppose the glass half full perspective there is that we're into their shit as much as they're into ours, but they don't know it just yet. Is the right flank of my operation going through the exact same thing right now because the enemy knows we're here and this is what being surrounded looks like in the dark? That would suck. Edit: But, we're here to do an assault, so I guess it's time for shooting |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 10:50:23 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the right flank of my operation going through the exact same thing right now because the enemy knows we're here and this is what being surrounded looks like in the dark? That would suck. Edit: But, we're here to do an assault, so I guess it's time for shooting In any case, there's no (okay, maybe there's one or two incredibly far-fetched) situations that won't involve capping these fools in the immediate future. If this is the lead element of a larger force that's got you surrounded, let them begin their attack sans a half-dozen guys and a RTO. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 10:56:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also, what exactly are we supposed to be attacking? Opposing troops? Supply depot? Airstrip? Something guarded or unguarded? And, is the enemy a nation's military or something else? Terrorists? Militia? Some billionaire's private mercenaries? Whatever it is, they are sending out patrols with radios. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 10:57:17 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the right flank of my operation going through the exact same thing right now because the enemy knows we're here and this is what being surrounded looks like in the dark? That would suck. Edit: But, we're here to do an assault, so I guess it's time for shooting Oooh, interesting—so you're saying that our right flank may have been found and the enemy could be attempting to surround them before pouncing? Definitely plausible. Our lost contact with 2d and the commander also fuels this possibility. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 10:57:45 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I feel like too many people are placing a lot of faith in 40mm and hand grenades. Personally, I'm shooting the radioman in the fucking face at that distance before any explosives are used to OODA loop the rest of the team. There are too many variables involved with weaker boom booms and I want to make damn sure no cry for help is going out. A head shot at <50 meters is cake. Clustered enemy formation with comms in a choke point call for HE engagement. Additionally, the 40mm serves as a defacto ADDRAC for your team and a contact report for team 2, out of sight but probably not out of ear shot. The radio is the biggest threat to the mission and must be neutralized. Not just the radioman, but the radio. If it's the lead element of a larger formation, congrats on your assignment as the base of fire for your squads future maneuver. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 11:03:25 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oooh, interesting so you're saying that our right flank may have been found and the enemy could be attempting to surround them before pouncing? Definitely plausible. Our lost contact with 2d and the commander also fuels this possibility. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 11:08:54 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Clustered enemy formation with comms in a choke point call for HE engagement. Additionally, the 40mm serves as a defacto ADDRAC for your team and a contact report for team 2, out of sight but probably not out of ear shot. The radio is the biggest threat to the mission and must be neutralized. Not just the radioman, but the radio. If it's the lead element of a larger formation, congrats on your assignment as the base of fire for your squads future maneuver. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I feel like too many people are placing a lot of faith in 40mm and hand grenades. Personally, I'm shooting the radioman in the fucking face at that distance before any explosives are used to OODA loop the rest of the team. There are too many variables involved with weaker boom booms and I want to make damn sure no cry for help is going out. A head shot at <50 meters is cake. Clustered enemy formation with comms in a choke point call for HE engagement. Additionally, the 40mm serves as a defacto ADDRAC for your team and a contact report for team 2, out of sight but probably not out of ear shot. The radio is the biggest threat to the mission and must be neutralized. Not just the radioman, but the radio. If it's the lead element of a larger formation, congrats on your assignment as the base of fire for your squads future maneuver. I get that and in an ideal world, a 40mm and a couple frags are landing just as the radioman takes my load to his face. In the given scenario with no way to plan that with the rest of the team, that's going to be tricky but if I happen to have a 203, that makes it a little easier. My main point was that if the 203 lands a little off or the dude just gets lucky, he could still get on the radio immediately to call for help. It's already disturbingly close to being too close for a 40mm to arm. I just don't put a lot of faith in smaller explosives doing their job in a scenario where bad guys need to die RFN. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 11:13:52 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get that and in an ideal world, a 40mm and a couple frags are landing just as the radioman takes my load to his face. In the given scenario with no way to plan that with the rest of the team, that's going to be tricky but if I happen to have a 203, that makes it a little easier. My main point was that if the 203 lands a little off or the dude just gets lucky, he could still get on the radio immediately to call for help. It's already disturbingly close to being too close for a 40mm to arm. I just don't put a lot of faith in smaller explosives doing their job in a scenario where bad guys need to die RFN. I think a lot of people here didn't play football. 30 meters in excellent visibility conditions is close enough to hit someone with a thrown football without too much trouble for even an average person. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 11:18:20 AM EDT
[#37]
What does the SL/PL/CO CDR need?
time for linkup with us a good setup us to prevent enemy element from locating our larger friendly us to prevent enemy radioing to higher location of our element (reduce IDF) We have one-two minutes to organize a hasty in-line ambush, attempt to set up our line so that friendly fire reduced and the rest of the sqd can make contact with us to complete the action from a 90 degree angle, pushing ENY to river. Our goal is suppression enough that the remaining two teams can clear through, once contact has been regained. I send one (would want to send two, but don't have the manpower) to make linkup with SL. Figure the enemy is at a minimum a team sized element, so we need to full squad to destroy. I initiate the ambush vs the radio, ideally from northernmost position so I can spot my returning RFL and avoid FF. SL had better be with him. If not, we gain fire superiority, 1-2 min and then break contact, deliberate bounding back. If we let the eny pass, they could contact the larger moving body. They surely know we have an element in the area, just not where. They still don't know exactly where. If we don't initiate fires, they could know exactly where, utilize IDF, move their elements around to deliberately attack us, etc. Our mission is security, not secrecy. This is the point of a flank security element, not observation. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 11:20:58 AM EDT
[#38]
Have FT get on line. Initiate a near ambush with grenades. Have SAW gunner lay down base of fire. Push forward and destroy enemy. Commence with SSE. Regroup for potential counter ambush.
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Posted: 12/15/2022 11:27:33 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you're going to compromise the mission by opening fire? I've literally had someone who was wearing NVGs step over me as I lay in the prone after a patrol rolled up on my OP. Is it possible that you could simply go to ground and hide? Orders are to protect the left flank. Letting the enemy through to disrupt the attack is not accomplishing that order. No info on the enemy TO&E, but with a backpack radioman I assume at least a platoon is moving in our direction. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 11:29:23 AM EDT
[#40]
They have water, that is low ground, you probably have high ground. Open up and hope they think they are surrounded if your other guys figure it out and open up on them too, from higher ground might have some cover? No one has air superiority or thermals, so getting it on is probably the normal mindset at this point.
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Posted: 12/15/2022 11:37:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My reasoning for opening with 40mm is it will draw the other fire teams attention to the impact, rather than the gunshots coming from my fire team. Otherwise, I agree. Anyone recall the arming distance for 40mm? 30m is cutting is close. The main reason for initiating with frag is for violence of action. Frags are not as destructive as most people think, but they will sure as hell put you off balance.. like a flashbang grenade on steroids . |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 11:42:15 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oooh, interesting—so you're saying that our right flank may have been found and the enemy could be attempting to surround them before pouncing? Definitely plausible. Our lost contact with 2d and the commander also fuels this possibility. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is the right flank of my operation going through the exact same thing right now because the enemy knows we're here and this is what being surrounded looks like in the dark? That would suck. Edit: But, we're here to do an assault, so I guess it's time for shooting Oooh, interesting—so you're saying that our right flank may have been found and the enemy could be attempting to surround them before pouncing? Definitely plausible. Our lost contact with 2d and the commander also fuels this possibility. I don't think we've really "Lost contact" with 2d and commander, they're just somewhere else and I can't see them. My rifleman might be able to see them. I don't think any shots have been fired, and I doubt any other enemies have ninja-bayoneted a lot of the rest of the company. I think everybody on my side is alive and well right now, but they might be in someone's sights and everything is going to change in 5 seconds. I've changed my mind about targeting the radio guy first. If I raise my rifle, the point enemy 30 meters away is going to see me and if I spend the next .125 seconds doing anything other than shooting him, he kills me. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 11:54:28 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think a lot of people here didn't play football. 30 meters in excellent visibility conditions is close enough to hit someone with a thrown football without too much trouble for even an average person. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I get that and in an ideal world, a 40mm and a couple frags are landing just as the radioman takes my load to his face. In the given scenario with no way to plan that with the rest of the team, that's going to be tricky but if I happen to have a 203, that makes it a little easier. My main point was that if the 203 lands a little off or the dude just gets lucky, he could still get on the radio immediately to call for help. It's already disturbingly close to being too close for a 40mm to arm. I just don't put a lot of faith in smaller explosives doing their job in a scenario where bad guys need to die RFN. I think a lot of people here didn't play football. 30 meters in excellent visibility conditions is close enough to hit someone with a thrown football without too much trouble for even an average person. 30m is nothing but we aren't throwing footballs at the enemy. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 12:04:10 PM EDT
[#44]
Seems like if you're supposed to get to an attack position further north, this enemy element might be a scout patrol detachment.
Freeze behind pines and bushes, get a bead on them, try to let them pass (eastward)between the fire teams, (edit: hoping they continue eastward) then try to link up or communicate with your other fire teams to pass on the info. Whilst being ready to initiate hasty ambush. If successful at letting them through continue to attack position. Be sure of rear security though. Seems like their detection of your element would be likely. Would the initial attack be worthless? Is it part of a larger attack? How critical is it? What's the commanders intent or expectation? |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 12:09:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Jrh Enterprises didn't offer APC a big enough discount for our group buy, so we are stuck with eyeballs only...  Never heard from anyone with that organizations name. If your not joking feel free to send me any emails that were sent in case we missed them. Most here know I reply to emails within minutes unless I'm at combatives a few hours a week. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 12:20:42 PM EDT
[#46]
I listened to a podcast with Mac v sog Vietnam commandos who stumbled upon a north Vietnamese division or something. That was a crazy situation. They basically just tried to evade them and get out of there. If I recall correctly
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Posted: 12/15/2022 1:15:27 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First thing I would do is have my fireteam hold fire and maintain position/cover until it can be verified that the suspected enemy movement isn't actually the 2nd fire team. If, and only if, enemy element is actually confirmed, open up from current positions. This. My concern from how the scenario is described is initiating friendly fire. I would also take into account how experienced my point man is. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 1:33:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You think a unit that doesn't have working comms practiced a cohesive battle drill? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: One more thing. Actions on contact should have been briefed during the op order. The whole point of battle drills and briefing is to have plans in place that are second nature to execute when seconds count. Where's the OPORD we would have received before this operation Ben You think a unit that doesn't have working comms practiced a cohesive battle drill? To be fair, in the early to mid 90’s we had very little comms within the squad. The main radio was with the LT so we did most everything by hand and arm signals. |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 1:33:59 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Absolutely yes. We do not want an enemy element running around in our rear to either attack us on the objective or on our way back. The pl will have to decide if we move to the obj or call ot a night. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you're just going to destroy the element of surprise in your follow on assault? Quoted: So you're going to compromise the mission by opening fire? I've literally had someone who was wearing NVGs step over me as I lay in the prone after a patrol rolled up on my OP. Is it possible that you could simply go to ground and hide? Yes. Absolutely yes. We do not want an enemy element running around in our rear to either attack us on the objective or on our way back. The pl will have to decide if we move to the obj or call ot a night. +1 |
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Posted: 12/15/2022 1:44:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a shit sandwich whether you avoid the fight or not. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For those who want to try and avoid a fight- what happens if they are the lead trace of a larger element? And you just let them past? People have suggested the danger of their radio, but what if this is an enemy company? That's a shit sandwich whether you avoid the fight or not. They will realize that an early and liberal application of violence was probably a better course of action? But on the bright side they are minutes away from finding themselves in a target rich environment
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