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Posted: 3/12/2016 6:05:21 PM EDT
[#1]
I got both on page 2
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Posted: 3/12/2016 6:09:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just to add, the ARs I will be building will run about $1400-$1500. So the Tavor is a few hundred more. I have to build two of these or buy two Tavors. i dont know what youre building, but youre overpaying unless that includes glass. the only advantage the bp has is barrel length, which is negated with any of the many bullets available for a AR. salad days for ARs, get two to one on the BPs |
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Posted: 3/12/2016 6:28:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Main question is what are you going to use it for and ranges. Also, for most people which would you enjoy shooting more? You really can't go wrong with either one mainly just personal preference. I have both and prefer shooting the tavor, while others prefer the AR, try both if you can and pick the one you like best.
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Posted: 3/12/2016 8:17:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryI'm sure it's great info, but they don't need to be conducting an interview 10 feet from an active firing line. I couldn't listen to more than a couple of minutes. |
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Posted: 3/12/2016 8:55:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Buy the Tavor. It sounds like that's why you want so get one.
That being said an 11.5" AR-15 is superior in every way beside muzzle velocity. Modularity, parts availability, and customization are all better on the AR. The thing that the AR gives you more than anything else is options. As far as muzzle velocity goes it's not nearly as important with modern bullets as it's made out to be. The further you shoot the more it becomes relevant, but once it does there are much better options than a 5.56 rifle. If you were engaging targets at those distances you should really being using something different to begin with. |
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Posted: 3/12/2016 9:30:08 PM EDT
[#6]
ARP - 16" recon .223 Wylde melonite barrel
$249.00 , but normally there's a sale at $189.00 ARP 9310 superbolt NiB $83.00 ARP JAL shorty linear muzzle device $ 46.00 Side charging upper $250-$350 Side charging carrier $169.00 ( has bolt, but it will be a spare ) rails, depending on choice $175 Lo Pro gas block $50 Upper total $1,000 PSA lower $60.00 LPK $50 ACE M4 SOCOM stock, $200 Sling - Larue padded or VTac $45 QD swivel attachment fpr forearm - $15 Trigger - $150 Lower total - $470 Total without optics - $1470 Add optics and sights Mepro M21 triangle - $450 Back up sights, $125 Total cost - $2045 This is the same setup I had on my ARP 6.8 and my ARP .233 Wylde except for the side charging upper. If I built exactly what I had before and subtract the extra $250 for the side charger, it would still be $1220 without optics, and $1795 with. The Tavor is $1700 without optics, but it has sights. I can go with one of the PA arms micro dots with the AR or the Tavor to start, and then get the Mepro later on. I had the PA on my son's rifle, waiting to get the Mepro for him at some point later. |
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Posted: 3/12/2016 10:34:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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It seems that if your financial position is so precarious that you had to sell property to pay off a few thousand dollars in taxes, you would probably be much better off putting that money into savings, as opposed to new toys. I had to come up with extra money fast, and in order to do it I had to sell my guns. I am going to be getting refunded the money for what I sold them for. I would buy them all back but I can't, so I'm going to buy something else. It will be no different than if I had not sold the guns to start with, except for the fact that there will be different guns there. Well, in that case, M17S: http://www.kmarms.com/images/556-3.jpg  That's how the M17S should have came from the Factory from the git go. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 9:15:40 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's how the M17S should have came from the Factory from the git go. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
It seems that if your financial position is so precarious that you had to sell property to pay off a few thousand dollars in taxes, you would probably be much better off putting that money into savings, as opposed to new toys. I had to come up with extra money fast, and in order to do it I had to sell my guns. I am going to be getting refunded the money for what I sold them for. I would buy them all back but I can't, so I'm going to buy something else. It will be no different than if I had not sold the guns to start with, except for the fact that there will be different guns there. Well, in that case, M17S: http://www.kmarms.com/images/556-3.jpg That's how the M17S should have came from the Factory from the git go. They didn't have picatinny rails when the M17S was first designed. 
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:32:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Tavor doesn't suppress very good, the one I had didn't have trouble with gas coming from port door. The gas would come from the relief port of the piston, right at the rear of the top rail. I would get a nice eye and nose blast, within 10 rds it would be nasty. Plus with a fixed gas regulator, when supressed, u get 2x as much gas (overgassed).
The other thing about the tavor is there is no good way to grab it, except by the grip. Hard to explain, but an AR can be picked up from any direction, by any part of the rifle. The tavor is so bulky and rectangle that the only way to grab it is by grip. This sounds dumb but in real life the tavor is just awkward to grab/acquire, do reloads, operate one handed, trigger is blah and replacement is 300.00, mounting a light is sketchy. I sold mine for a scar light, a very superior rifle to the tavor. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:39:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tavor doesn't suppress very good, the one I had didn't have trouble with gas coming from port door. The gas would come from the relief port of the piston, right at the rear of the top rail. I would get a nice eye and nose blast, within 10 rds it would be nasty. Plus with a fixed gas regulator, when supressed, u get 2x as much gas (overgassed). The other thing about the tavor is there is no good way to grab it, except by the grip. Hard to explain, but an AR can be picked up from any direction, by any part of the rifle. The tavor is so bulky and rectangle that the only way to grab it is by grip. This sounds dumb but in real life the tavor is just awkward to grab/acquire, do reloads, operate one handed, trigger is blah and replacement is 300.00, mounting a light is sketchy. I sold mine for a scar light, a very superior rifle to the tavor. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:40:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Tavor are cool, but ARs are still the best rifle.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:44:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Someone mentioned 9mm/300bo tavor kit...didn't know 300 was released. How's it work with subs and supers? The 9mm kit is 800+, I can build a 9mm AR upper and have the mag well block for that money. The 9mm tavor kit requires tearing rifle down to scratch, AR upper swap takes 30 seconds: ar ftw. And before anyone starts mentioning elite idf uses tavor, they dont, they use ARs. That should be a hint.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:56:12 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You need training, everything that you said negative is training except the gas. As for suppressing it, it's the same gas as an AR and that depends of the can you're using. It's still a better platform to suppress than an AUG Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Tavor doesn't suppress very good, the one I had didn't have trouble with gas coming from port door. The gas would come from the relief port of the piston, right at the rear of the top rail. I would get a nice eye and nose blast, within 10 rds it would be nasty. Plus with a fixed gas regulator, when supressed, u get 2x as much gas (overgassed). The other thing about the tavor is there is no good way to grab it, except by the grip. Hard to explain, but an AR can be picked up from any direction, by any part of the rifle. The tavor is so bulky and rectangle that the only way to grab it is by grip. This sounds dumb but in real life the tavor is just awkward to grab/acquire, do reloads, operate one handed, trigger is blah and replacement is 300.00, mounting a light is sketchy. I sold mine for a scar light, a very superior rifle to the tavor. Exactly how do u train to grab a rifle from any position, possibly in low light, when the rifle is shaped like a 2x8? Yes, firing one handed is easier with tavor, but charging/mag change is trickier one handed then ar, irregardless of training. No, the gas isn't the same gas as an ar, not even sure what that means. I never have any trouble with gas in face with dI or piston ar. The tavor piston cup/regulator is at the rear of the top rail. It dumps gas against piston cup to cycle bolt, when cup moves bolt rearward the cup let's any extra gas dump to atmosphere. When suppressed back pressure pushes more gas to piston cup, extra gas is dumped to atmosphere (which is right where most people find their face) |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 11:03:19 AM EDT
[#14]
My Tavor is setup as my "you can only grab one gun to do an acceptable job for most roles" gun. The main reason for choosing the Tavor is that ability to suppress it w/o either having a ridiculously long rifle, or loosing a ton of velocity due to a short barrel. From my perspective, there are three big downsides to the Tavor.
1) The trigger really isn't acceptable for most people. It can be made into a pretty darn nice trigger but that gets into #2 2) Cost. It's not a cheap rifle to begin with. Add in a trigger pack and bow and you're getting up there in price compared to a comparable AR (or two). 3) Weight. This is the one that has me constantly re-evaluating whether I should build an AR for this role. By the time you add necessary components (suppressor, IR laser, IR/WH light, optic) the rifle is really starting to get heavy and there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do to lighten it w/o loosing functionality. Now, even with those negatives, the Tavor is currently still my choice for a jack-of-all-trades go to rifle. The overall length (with suppressor attached) while still having a 16" barrel is the biggest factor in that decision. For a rifle more specialized for close-quarters, or mid-range, etc, you'd would likely do much better with a purpose build AR. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 11:06:36 AM EDT
[#15]
I sold all my non AR rifle things.
I like having a box of parts that has over 95% commonality, with the only real differences being barrels and BCGs for different calibers (also mags for 6.8). |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 11:06:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1) The trigger 2) Cost. 3) Weight. 4) The world isn't a nascar track. Fixed. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 11:08:32 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly how do u train to grab a rifle from any position, possibly in low light, when the rifle is shaped like a 2x8? Yes, firing one handed is easier with tavor, but charging/mag change is trickier one handed then ar, irregardless of training. No, the gas isn't the same gas as an ar, not even sure what that means. I never have any trouble with gas in face with dI or piston ar. The tavor piston cup/regulator is at the rear of the top rail. It dumps gas against piston cup to cycle bolt, when cup moves bolt rearward the cup let's any extra gas dump to atmosphere. When suppressed back pressure pushes more gas to piston cup, extra gas is dumped to atmosphere (which is right where most people find their face) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Tavor doesn't suppress very good, the one I had didn't have trouble with gas coming from port door. The gas would come from the relief port of the piston, right at the rear of the top rail. I would get a nice eye and nose blast, within 10 rds it would be nasty. Plus with a fixed gas regulator, when supressed, u get 2x as much gas (overgassed). The other thing about the tavor is there is no good way to grab it, except by the grip. Hard to explain, but an AR can be picked up from any direction, by any part of the rifle. The tavor is so bulky and rectangle that the only way to grab it is by grip. This sounds dumb but in real life the tavor is just awkward to grab/acquire, do reloads, operate one handed, trigger is blah and replacement is 300.00, mounting a light is sketchy. I sold mine for a scar light, a very superior rifle to the tavor. Exactly how do u train to grab a rifle from any position, possibly in low light, when the rifle is shaped like a 2x8? Yes, firing one handed is easier with tavor, but charging/mag change is trickier one handed then ar, irregardless of training. No, the gas isn't the same gas as an ar, not even sure what that means. I never have any trouble with gas in face with dI or piston ar. The tavor piston cup/regulator is at the rear of the top rail. It dumps gas against piston cup to cycle bolt, when cup moves bolt rearward the cup let's any extra gas dump to atmosphere. When suppressed back pressure pushes more gas to piston cup, extra gas is dumped to atmosphere (which is right where most people find their face) |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 11:11:43 AM EDT
[#18]
Ar15 first guns, get SBR stamps, then Tavor. Have both, love both.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 11:18:22 AM EDT
[#19]
I have never owned a bullpup but had the pleasure to shoot an Australians Aug while deployed. I purchased a Tavor Sar on a wim awhile ago and have been using it consistanly during range and training. I am pleasantly suprised, easily maneuverable, compact and quick target acquisitions. It has eaten everything I have given it, 77gr razorcore, 62gr greentip, 55gr wolf and everything inbetween, not one ftf or fte. I have the Geissele super sabra trigger pack and lightning bow trigger. This rifle is a champ and the Israeli's got it right I think. I only have roughly 2500 rounds through it and my mindset may change but right now I may be converted over to bullpups and might have to purchase an A3. 
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Posted: 3/13/2016 11:23:34 AM EDT
[#20]
I'm appreciating all of the thoughtful replies here. Thanks.
The only things I will add to this rifle is a weapon light and an optic. That's it, well, sling of course, but as far as accessories, I like it simple. Depending on what my lawyer says, I won't have figures until Monday or Tuesday, I may be able to buy an Aug and a Tavor and optics for both. My son and I can shoot them both, and see which we really like. He may like one better and I may like the other, or, we both might like the same one, at which point I'd need to sell that one and buy another of the ones we both like. The other thing, is that after this mess is over, we're going after the nursing home, the VA, and Medicaid. I had to turn over right at $129,000 in life insurance because the VA didn't approve my dad for over a year and a half, ( records burned up in the Philly fire ), although I had his DD214 in hand with his activation and deactivation dates. That forced us to get Medicaid involved to pay for the nursing home, which cut off services and treatment like solid food and PT and speech therapy where he was improving in all areas. Medicaid messed up three different times, and they got a lawyer to come after me, and he ended up agreeing with me that they fucked up, and all paperwork regarding assets were correct. Plus, he had a pension coming to him, of a considerable amount, that they were supposed to pay back in 2009, but they kept screwing it up and putting it off. Finally a few months after his death in 2012, after nearly four years , they send a letter saying that they don't owe it because he was dead. So, we're going back after all of that, plus pain and suffering. The lawyer is a sitting senator, says we have a concrete case, and is only going to bill me for billable hours, if we win, not a percentage of the settlement. He's a family friend, so I'm hoping he's right. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 11:25:24 AM EDT
[#21]
So I was just reading about the x95 American civilian legal version that is to be released. Said they are making the stock longer and barrel longer. A little dissapointed they are extending the stock. Would rather have an ugly long barrel I can change later when turned SBR. Modifying a bullpup stock could be quite more difficult than modifying the barrel.
Still I would hold out. The better mag release position alone will make the x95 the best available bullpup, X95 sounds like the current king of bullpup designs. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 11:28:57 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have never owned a bullpup but had the pleasure to shoot an Australians Aug while deployed. I purchased a Tavor Sar on a wim awhile ago and have been using it consistanly during range and training. I am pleasantly suprised, easily maneuverable, compact and quick target acquisitions. It has eaten everything I have given it, 77gr razorcore, 62gr greentip, 55gr wolf and everything inbetween, not one ftf or fte. I have the Geissele super sabra trigger pack and lightning bow trigger. This rifle is a champ and the Israeli's got it right I think. I only have roughly 2500 rounds through it and my mindset may change but right now I may be converted over to bullpups and might have to purchase an A3. http://i.imgur.com/kTUNf2m.jpg This is now a picture thread. If you own a Tavor, or an Aug, please post pics. Or, hell, if you just have some cool pics of them. ETA, also, I want to reiterate , these are not my first guns, I've owned a ton of firearms over the years, including 7 AR15s, two M1As, 6 AKs, various bolt rifles, two FALs, One G3 clone, several others , just never a Tavor or Aug. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 12:00:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I sold all my non AR rifle things. I like having a box of parts that has over 95% commonality, with the only real differences being barrels and BCGs for different calibers (also mags for 6.8). I used to have 911's, Corvettes, Bentleys, a McLaren, Aston Martins, BMW's and Mercedes in the garage. Parts commonality was a PITA. I still love driving and own a dozen Honda Accords. It's cool that the parts are common, and if I feel like getting wild & crazy on the weekend, I'll drive the red one instead of the black, grey, tan or white ones. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 12:33:06 PM EDT
[#24]
So how do u fix the overgassed/supressed tavor, since there is no gas buster for it?
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Posted: 3/13/2016 12:36:55 PM EDT
[#25]
My issue with the Tavor is getting a consistent cheek weld that is in line with standard height sights. Otherwise, its a good rifle.
Still, I'd go with the AR for the modularity and plethora of accessories. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 12:50:27 PM EDT
[#26]
The Tavor (or two).
Any extra $$ after that...get a high quality AR lower or two....then build up those over time. Depending on how the election goes.....Black Friday/Cyber Monday may have spectacular deals.....or 50 rd boxes of .22lr for $25 each..... |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 2:10:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So how do u fix the overgassed/supressed tavor, since there is no gas buster for it? MI port door and a cheap tube of sealant. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 2:18:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to have 911's, Corvettes, Bentleys, a McLaren, Aston Martins, BMW's and Mercedes in the garage. Parts commonality was a PITA. I still love driving and own a dozen Honda Accords. It's cool that the parts are common, and if I feel like getting wild & crazy on the weekend, I'll drive the red one instead of the black, grey, tan or white ones. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I sold all my non AR rifle things. I like having a box of parts that has over 95% commonality, with the only real differences being barrels and BCGs for different calibers (also mags for 6.8). I used to have 911's, Corvettes, Bentleys, a McLaren, Aston Martins, BMW's and Mercedes in the garage. Parts commonality was a PITA. I still love driving and own a dozen Honda Accords. It's cool that the parts are common, and if I feel like getting wild & crazy on the weekend, I'll drive the red one instead of the black, grey, tan or white ones. To me caliber is the variety. I have everything AR from 300 WM to 22LR. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 2:22:02 PM EDT
[#29]
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This being GD I'm going to just suggest an AUG and bypass your stipulations and months of research and consideration. This. The AUG is a vastly superior Bullpup. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 2:24:09 PM EDT
[#30]
I've owned one for two years and my interest has progressively waned for it. It was the coolest thing ever for the first few months I owned it, and then it's uniqueness kind of wore off. I briefly flirted with the idea of putting a Geiselle in it, and getting a rail for it to see if it revived my interest, but ended up deciding to not dump any more money into it.
I'll probably sell it at some point, but I might as well wait until I see what happens come November. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 2:26:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This being GD I'm going to just suggest an AUG and bypass your stipulations and months of research and consideration. I endorse this off-topic suggestion myself. The AUG is great. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 2:39:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tavor are cool, but ARs are still the best rifle. Well, yeah. But I have lots of guns that aren't the "best" because I just enjoy shooting. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 2:40:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Had a Tavor and quickly sold it. Not a fan. Feels clunky and egros are fucking clown shoes.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 2:46:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Traded my Tavor for an AUG. haven't looked back.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 3:18:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To me caliber is the variety. I have everything AR from 300 WM to 22LR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I sold all my non AR rifle things. I like having a box of parts that has over 95% commonality, with the only real differences being barrels and BCGs for different calibers (also mags for 6.8). I used to have 911's, Corvettes, Bentleys, a McLaren, Aston Martins, BMW's and Mercedes in the garage. Parts commonality was a PITA. I still love driving and own a dozen Honda Accords. It's cool that the parts are common, and if I feel like getting wild & crazy on the weekend, I'll drive the red one instead of the black, grey, tan or white ones. To me caliber is the variety. I have everything AR from 300 WM to 22LR. To each their own. Personally, I find shooting only 1 platform boring. Variety is a tasty spice. 
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Posted: 3/13/2016 3:21:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To each their own. Personally, I find shooting only 1 platform boring. Variety is a tasty spice. I like my guns boringly reliable and accurate. Therefore AR. I get my variety via optics. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 4:10:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like my guns boringly reliable and accurate. Therefore AR. I get my variety via optics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
To each their own. Personally, I find shooting only 1 platform boring. Variety is a tasty spice. I like my guns boringly reliable and accurate. Therefore AR. I get my variety via optics. Whatever floats your boat. There are lots of boringly reliable & accurate guns outside the world of ARs. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 4:13:18 PM EDT
[#38]
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There are lots of boringly reliable & accurate guns outside the world of ARs. Nope. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 4:18:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Because pics. I bought 2 bull pups because I'm almost certain that they (The fucktard politicians in Oregon) will pass a ban any time now. I won't be able to get a bull pup if that happens. I have plenty of AR lowers that I can build whenever.  I like the AUG better, but will use the Tavor more because it's full on lefty friendly.  |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 4:20:51 PM EDT
[#40]
I have four AR's and a Tavor. The Tavor is just for legal reasons. I like my AR's more. They seem to be more accurate, easier to customize, better triggers, and feel better in my hands. That said the TAR-21 is very neat. In Canada it has a much better legal status than the AR amd people really like the look of it. Very space age.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 4:24:19 PM EDT
[#41]
If I were buying my first .223 semi-auto, I would advise myself as follows:
AR>AUG>Tavor Edit: If you are thinking side charger, I would consider an XCR. The RatWorx 9mm suppressor on a 9mm Tavor is fun, but the whole package seems huge. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 4:30:15 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There are lots of boringly reliable & accurate guns outside the world of ARs. Nope. If it gives you comfort hoarding 50 AR's in your safe room, more power to ya. Rock on. There's a big world out there besides ARs. 
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Posted: 3/13/2016 4:35:59 PM EDT
[#43]
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If I were buying my first .223 semi-auto, I would advise myself as follows: AR>AUG>Tavor As I've said, I've had several ARs all 5.56 other than my 6.8 , and dozens of other semi auto rifles. I'll take the Aug over the Tavor advice. Maybe I'll get lucky and recover enough to buy one of each, like that lucky SOB two posts up.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 5:27:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have both.I tend to shoot AR more,The Tavor has some weight to it.I love the trigger on the Tavor since putting in a Geissele..you should just get one of each. I have both. Get an AR first. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 5:29:02 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 3/13/2016 5:29:50 PM EDT
[#46]
If I was going to go bullpup, I would go with a Styer Aug. I voted AR btw.
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Posted: 3/14/2016 8:53:34 AM EDT
[#47]
Tavor will be $1000 more all things considered after you upgrade the trigger and spend more on the base rifle.
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Posted: 3/14/2016 1:17:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This being GD I'm going to just suggest an AUG and bypass your stipulations and months of research and consideration. This - get a real Steyr. If you MUST go bullpup, accept no substitute. |
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Posted: 3/14/2016 1:18:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tavor will be $1000 more all things considered after you upgrade the trigger and spend more on the base rifle. Thus the X95. |
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Posted: 3/14/2016 1:37:18 PM EDT
[#50]
My brother has a tavor. If feels really "heavy" even though it is not a heavy gun. The ergonomics feel wrong, but I do shoot a lot of AR's so its probably just something to get used to. It is accurate and compact which is a plus.
Suppressed is pretty bad. You do get a lot of gas in the face. When I shoot it with a magnified optic or magnifier on a red dot, during recoil the optic ALWAYS hits my shooting glasses. It I didn't wear them I would get hit in the eye. Not sure why that happens on the Tavor. The eye relief for the optic is the same on either rifle its on but on the tavor it hits me. Fun gun to shoot though and it looks cool as hell. Just my .02. |
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