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Posted: 8/29/2019 9:17:53 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL. All the usual hoopla from Tesla about their "special" product. There were articles in the all the financial publications about Tesla's new insurance division. Tesla is just reselling someone else's automobile insurance. Tesla is an insurance broker for State National Insurance Company, a unit of Markel Corp. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-markel-insurance/tesla-rolls-out-insurance-in-california-idUSKCN1VI2QZ |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 12:32:22 PM EST
[#2]
Tesla is also offering insurance coverage for solar panel fires.
Sell products that catch fire, collect government funding, and then sell insurance coverage for the fires! Elon is a genius! Insurance funding secured. https://www.tesla.com/insurance  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 2:55:48 PM EST
[#3]
Up next, a Tesla credit card?
Tesla needs to get into the overpriced merch game, like Porsche and Ferrari. #notacult |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 3:00:42 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Musk's Tesla electric cars are about 'lifestyle', not climate: Masagos Singapore isn't wrong. Insane 0-60 numbers are inefficient and unenvironmental. Checkm8, m8. |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 6:08:20 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dyson(yes the vacuum company) is going to build electric cars in Singapore. When I first heard about it I was absolutely baffled why they would pick one of the most expensive locations on Earth to setup a factory, it makes sense now, they must have gotten a sweetheart deal from the Singapore government. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Musk's Tesla electric cars are about 'lifestyle', not climate: Masagos Singapore isn't wrong. Insane 0-60 numbers are inefficient and unenvironmental. Checkm8, m8. |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 6:10:36 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dyson(yes the vacuum company) is going to build electric cars in Singapore. When I first heard about it I was absolutely baffled why they would pick one of the most expensive locations on Earth to setup a factory, it makes sense now, they must have gotten a sweetheart deal from the Singapore government. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Musk's Tesla electric cars are about 'lifestyle', not climate: Masagos Singapore isn't wrong. Insane 0-60 numbers are inefficient and unenvironmental. Checkm8, m8. |
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Posted: 8/29/2019 9:32:19 PM EST
[#7]
The comments on the Tesla insurance link are hilarious. Everyone is stating that their quote was double what they're already paying, and that's for less coverage. Another nail in the coffin.
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Posted: 8/31/2019 8:51:31 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The comments on the Tesla insurance link are hilarious. Everyone is stating that their quote was double what they're already paying, and that's for less coverage. Another nail in the coffin. What Tesla gains from this is the headlines that they're rolling out an innovative insurance product, just for Tesla owners, that will magically cost 30% less than current rates due to magic! The best case for Tesla is that no one ever signs up, because the economics of the situation demand that Tesla must lose money on any competitively priced policy. The headlines are where the value is at. Eventual realization of profit isn't a priority. Look at the headlines versus the reality yesterday. Headline: "Tesla given tax exemption on sales in China for all models!" Reality: The Chinese government confirmed that Tesla would get the same sales tax exemption that every EV producer in China already gets, but only for cars built in China, therefore only Model 3s coming out of Shanghai. Very few articles about it actually explained the reality, and the result was that the stock opened up 4%, and even though it gave most of the gain back as people wised up over the day, it still closed up 1.75%. I guess what I'm saying is that the fact that Tesla Insurance is just another in a long line of scam products doesn't mean it's another nail in the coffin. Tesla Insurance already is a success. It generated headlines, and the people who read them will think, "Boy, that Elon did it again. Thirty percent cheaper!? Genius!" They will never see a headline six months from now when the first full quarter of Tesla Insurance in released financial results show that it's a minor money loser. |
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Posted: 9/4/2019 4:21:10 PM EST
[#9]
$150k Taycan 2020 Porsche Taycan - Model S eater
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Posted: 9/4/2019 9:00:10 PM EST
[#10]
Global electric-car sales fell for the first time on record in July after China scaled back purchase subsidies, highlighting the role government assistance is having on the burgeoning market.
Monthly sales worldwide fell 14% to about 128,000 plug-in passenger electric vehicles, Sanford C. Bernstein said in a report Tuesday. Sales declined in China and North America, while rising in Europe. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-03/electric-car-sales-fall-for-first-time-after-china-cuts-subsidy  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 8:56:12 PM EST
[#11]
Apparently the police in Bargersville Indiana are going to buy Tesla's for their fleet. How ridiculous and risky. But hey, who cares? Just put it on the backs of local tax payers.
https://electrek.co/2019/08/30/tesla-model-3-police-cost-performance-dodge-charger/ |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 10:10:13 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Apparently the police in Bargersville Indiana are going to buy Tesla's for their fleet. How ridiculous and risky. But hey, who cares? Just put it on the backs of local tax payers. https://electrek.co/2019/08/30/tesla-model-3-police-cost-performance-dodge-charger/ |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 10:47:51 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Apparently the police in Bargersville Indiana are going to buy Tesla's for their fleet. How ridiculous and risky. But hey, who cares? Just put it on the backs of local tax payers. https://electrek.co/2019/08/30/tesla-model-3-police-cost-performance-dodge-charger/ |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 10:50:19 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$150k Taycan 2020 Porsche Taycan - Model S eater |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 10:33:07 AM EST
[#15]
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Posted: 9/6/2019 11:01:58 AM EST
[#16]
So what happens if Tesla beats the Taycan time around the track?
0-60 Tesla wins 1/4 mile Tesla wins Top speed Tesla wins Fully optioned top of the line Tesla is half the price (If the interior is the deal breaker take the 125,000 you saved on the Tesla and go to a custom shop and do 125k custom job that would be exactly how you designed it) Tesla wins Track time around Porsche home track (if Tesla pulls it off) Tesla wins Range Tesla 50% more 50%! Tesla wins Auto pilot should you choose to use it at your option Tesla wins Over the air updates adding performance/security/safety features Tesla wins Fast charging network Tesla wins VW group has put 6.6 billion $ into its electric car program “When the big boys get in the game Tesla is done” Well, the most prestigious name in the “big boy” club just debuted their offerings It’s twice as expensive, less performance in pretty much every category They have the luxurious interior and the name on the hood For the same $ get a custom interior job and a Porsche badge from a junkyard Or just wait for the roadster 2 to come out and pay less Go 3x as far Go 100mph faster Go 0-60 30% quicker Etc etc |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 11:04:53 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what happens if Tesla beats the Taycan time around the track? 0-60 Tesla wins 1/4 mile Tesla wins Top speed Tesla wins Fully optioned top of the line Tesla is half the price (If the interior is the deal breaker take the 125,000 you saved on the Tesla and go to a custom shop and do 125k custom job that would be exactly how you designed it) Tesla wins Track time around Porsche home track (if Tesla pulls it off) Tesla wins Range Tesla 50% more 50%! Tesla wins Auto pilot should you choose to use it at your option Tesla wins Over the air updates adding performance/security/safety features Tesla wins Fast charging network Tesla wins VW group has put 6.6 billion $ into its electric car program "When the big boys get in the game Tesla is done" Well, the most prestigious name in the "big boy" club just debuted their offerings It's twice as expensive, less performance in pretty much every category They have the luxurious interior and the name on the hood For the same $ get a custom interior job and a Porsche badge from a junkyard Or just wait for the roadster 2 to come out and pay less Go 3x as far Go 100mph faster Go 0-60 30% quicker Etc etc |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 11:30:40 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what happens if Tesla beats the Taycan time around the track? 0-60 Tesla wins 1/4 mile Tesla wins Top speed Tesla wins Fully optioned top of the line Tesla is half the price (If the interior is the deal breaker take the 125,000 you saved on the Tesla and go to a custom shop and do 125k custom job that would be exactly how you designed it) Tesla wins Track time around Porsche home track (if Tesla pulls it off) Tesla wins Range Tesla 50% more 50%! Tesla wins Auto pilot should you choose to use it at your option Tesla wins Over the air updates adding performance/security/safety features Tesla wins Fast charging network Tesla wins VW group has put 6.6 billion $ into its electric car program "When the big boys get in the game Tesla is done" Well, the most prestigious name in the "big boy" club just debuted their offerings It's twice as expensive, less performance in pretty much every category They have the luxurious interior and the name on the hood For the same $ get a custom interior job and a Porsche badge from a junkyard Or just wait for the roadster 2 to come out and pay less Go 3x as far Go 100mph faster Go 0-60 30% quicker Etc etc . Also I can actually get it serviced in my city at a factory dealer whereas a Tesla is at least two hours away so there's that. But keep going. Your passion is entertaining.
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Posted: 9/6/2019 11:56:45 AM EST
[#19]
Ok, I’ll keep going
When someone backed into me in a parking garage a high end body shop fixed the mashed up quarter panel in 5 days 20 minutes from my house It needed a new parking sensor they couldn’t fix A flatbed came and dropped off a Tesla for me to use and picked mine up Brought it back a week later and picked up the loaner Cost me 75$ Routine repairs/maintenance are handled by ranger service that comes to your house or place of work (Only needed them once when my son decided to ride the door handle in. Fixed at my work and didn’t charge me) Well over 100,000 Tesla miles at this point They did call me once and came out complimentary and did a complete inspection of the vehicle. I’m guessing because I’m a very high mile driver. Oddly that happens in March 2 years ago At that time one of my employees who drove a VW that was wrecked in early December was pulling her hair out because they were saying another month before she would have her VW back. The local VW approved body shop couldn’t fix it as sent it to a shop 175 miles away I know it’s all anecdotal and fuck Tesla and all that but the reality is ask yourself these questions It’s gonna hurt a little Is Tesla model s quicker than published Taycan 0-60 Does Tesla model s go faster than Taycan published speed Does Tesla model s go 100 miles more per charge Does Tesla have 16,0000 super chargers compared to 1 Porsche dedicated fast charger The list could go on and an I’ll go ahead and answer the flip side for you Is Tesla a Porsche-no Is Tesla as nice inside-no |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 1:20:12 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, I’ll keep going When someone backed into me in a parking garage a high end body shop fixed the mashed up quarter panel in 5 days 20 minutes from my house It needed a new parking sensor they couldn’t fix A flatbed came and dropped off a Tesla for me to use and picked mine up Brought it back a week later and picked up the loaner Cost me 75$ Routine repairs/maintenance are handled by ranger service that comes to your house or place of work (Only needed them once when my son decided to ride the door handle in. Fixed at my work and didn’t charge me) Well over 100,000 Tesla miles at this point They did call me once and came out complimentary and did a complete inspection of the vehicle. I’m guessing because I’m a very high mile driver. Oddly that happens in March 2 years ago At that time one of my employees who drove a VW that was wrecked in early December was pulling her hair out because they were saying another month before she would have her VW back. The local VW approved body shop couldn’t fix it as sent it to a shop 175 miles away I know it’s all anecdotal and fuck Tesla and all that but the reality is ask yourself these questions It’s gonna hurt a little Is Tesla model s quicker than published Taycan 0-60 Does Tesla model s go faster than Taycan published speed Does Tesla model s go 100 miles more per charge Does Tesla have 16,0000 super chargers compared to 1 Porsche dedicated fast charger The list could go on and an I’ll go ahead and answer the flip side for you Is Tesla a Porsche-no Is Tesla as nice inside-no |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 2:01:49 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is Tesla going to be financially viable in 36 months? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok, I'll keep going When someone backed into me in a parking garage a high end body shop fixed the mashed up quarter panel in 5 days 20 minutes from my house It needed a new parking sensor they couldn't fix A flatbed came and dropped off a Tesla for me to use and picked mine up Brought it back a week later and picked up the loaner Cost me 75$ Routine repairs/maintenance are handled by ranger service that comes to your house or place of work (Only needed them once when my son decided to ride the door handle in. Fixed at my work and didn't charge me) Well over 100,000 Tesla miles at this point They did call me once and came out complimentary and did a complete inspection of the vehicle. I'm guessing because I'm a very high mile driver. Oddly that happens in March 2 years ago At that time one of my employees who drove a VW that was wrecked in early December was pulling her hair out because they were saying another month before she would have her VW back. The local VW approved body shop couldn't fix it as sent it to a shop 175 miles away I know it's all anecdotal and fuck Tesla and all that but the reality is ask yourself these questions It's gonna hurt a little Is Tesla model s quicker than published Taycan 0-60 Does Tesla model s go faster than Taycan published speed Does Tesla model s go 100 miles more per charge Does Tesla have 16,0000 super chargers compared to 1 Porsche dedicated fast charger The list could go on and an I'll go ahead and answer the flip side for you Is Tesla a Porsche-no Is Tesla as nice inside-no 1. Declare bankruptcy, shed the $26B in liabilities. Fire the whole board. 2. Jettison Shanghai and Buffalo. Close the showrooms, dealerships and service centers. Get rid of anything related to Solar City, solar panels, energy storage, solar roof, power pack, power wall, insurance, music, tequila, or anything else that isn't the production of luxury BEVs. 3. Recapitalize the company. Stand up a new board with real auto industry experience, devoid of anyone with more than 1/2048th genetic relatedness to Elon. 4. Throw away all the current car designs. Rework Fremont to build a luxury CUV, a large luxury SUV, and the Roadster. And I mean actual luxury. Not "indistinguishable from a top trim Honda Civic" luxury. 5. Require a credit card on file for supercharger use for Tesla owners. Allow anyone else to also pay to use them, at a much higher rate. 6. Partner with established luxury dealer networks. Sell directly to them and let them find the end customers and handle service. If they started today, and did it right, and actually you know tested the cars and shook out the manufacturing process before starting full rate production, they would be on their way to being financially viable in 36 months. They might be doing low rate production by then. Then they could think about what to do next: 1. Build an ultra-luxury pickup on their SUV body. 2. Build a large luxury sedan on their CUV body. 3. Finish building out the gigafactory and supply battery packs to other car companies. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 2:02:10 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I work for a company that does A LOT of work engineering, building, maintaining, and expanding car plants and I thought from the announcement his promise to be putting out 5,000 cars a week by the end of the year was pie in the sky BS. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 2:07:34 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is Tesla going to be financially viable in 36 months? They currently have more cash than they have ever had The first cars are rolling off of their new factory in China They have 2 new models to be released next year As of most recent 13f filings for institutional investors 83 instititutional investment funds opened new positions in Tesla 379 institutional funds increased their positions in Tesla Number of shares in new positions outpaced closed positions by 20% Total institutional holdings increased by 12% Most of the closed positions were from small institutional funds and the increased positions were from the big guys To sum up, the most financially powerful institutions are betting on Tesla increasing its market value (ie becoming more financially viable than less) I’ll take their word for it, it’s not a one off it is a very broad section of financial institutions that are putting their money on this being the case Secondly, Tesla is too big to go away If they become unsustainable they will be bought (when they were talking about going private, VW wanted to buy a 20% stake) So do I think they will be around in three years? Yes based on the actions of the 100,s and 100,s of institutional investors that are increasing their positions and the 89 that opened new positions I do think they will be around. Institutional investors now hold 55% of the outstanding shares |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 2:08:06 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They could be. 1. Declare bankruptcy, shed the $26B in liabilities. Fire the whole board. 2. Jettison Shanghai and Buffalo. Close the showrooms, dealerships and service centers. Get rid of anything related to Solar City, solar panels, energy storage, solar roof, power pack, power wall, insurance, music, tequila, or anything else that isn't the production of luxury BEVs. 3. Recapitalize the company. Stand up a new board with real auto industry experience, devoid of anyone with more than 1/2048th genetic relatedness to Elon. 4. Throw away all the current car designs. Rework Fremont to build a luxury CUV, a large luxury SUV, and the Roadster. And I mean actual luxury. Not "indistinguishable from a top trim Honda Civic" luxury. 5. Require a credit card on file for supercharger use for Tesla owners. Allow anyone else to also pay to use them, at a much higher rate. 6. Partner with established luxury dealer networks. Sell directly to them and let them find the end customers and handle service. If they started today, and did it right, and actually you know tested the cars and shook out the manufacturing process before starting full rate production, they would be on their way to being financially viable in 36 months. They might be doing low rate production by then. Then they could think about what to do next: 1. Build an ultra-luxury pickup on their SUV body. 2. Build a large luxury sedan on their CUV body. 3. Finish building out the gigafactory and supply battery packs to other car companies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, I'll keep going When someone backed into me in a parking garage a high end body shop fixed the mashed up quarter panel in 5 days 20 minutes from my house It needed a new parking sensor they couldn't fix A flatbed came and dropped off a Tesla for me to use and picked mine up Brought it back a week later and picked up the loaner Cost me 75$ Routine repairs/maintenance are handled by ranger service that comes to your house or place of work (Only needed them once when my son decided to ride the door handle in. Fixed at my work and didn't charge me) Well over 100,000 Tesla miles at this point They did call me once and came out complimentary and did a complete inspection of the vehicle. I'm guessing because I'm a very high mile driver. Oddly that happens in March 2 years ago At that time one of my employees who drove a VW that was wrecked in early December was pulling her hair out because they were saying another month before she would have her VW back. The local VW approved body shop couldn't fix it as sent it to a shop 175 miles away I know it's all anecdotal and fuck Tesla and all that but the reality is ask yourself these questions It's gonna hurt a little Is Tesla model s quicker than published Taycan 0-60 Does Tesla model s go faster than Taycan published speed Does Tesla model s go 100 miles more per charge Does Tesla have 16,0000 super chargers compared to 1 Porsche dedicated fast charger The list could go on and an I'll go ahead and answer the flip side for you Is Tesla a Porsche-no Is Tesla as nice inside-no 1. Declare bankruptcy, shed the $26B in liabilities. Fire the whole board. 2. Jettison Shanghai and Buffalo. Close the showrooms, dealerships and service centers. Get rid of anything related to Solar City, solar panels, energy storage, solar roof, power pack, power wall, insurance, music, tequila, or anything else that isn't the production of luxury BEVs. 3. Recapitalize the company. Stand up a new board with real auto industry experience, devoid of anyone with more than 1/2048th genetic relatedness to Elon. 4. Throw away all the current car designs. Rework Fremont to build a luxury CUV, a large luxury SUV, and the Roadster. And I mean actual luxury. Not "indistinguishable from a top trim Honda Civic" luxury. 5. Require a credit card on file for supercharger use for Tesla owners. Allow anyone else to also pay to use them, at a much higher rate. 6. Partner with established luxury dealer networks. Sell directly to them and let them find the end customers and handle service. If they started today, and did it right, and actually you know tested the cars and shook out the manufacturing process before starting full rate production, they would be on their way to being financially viable in 36 months. They might be doing low rate production by then. Then they could think about what to do next: 1. Build an ultra-luxury pickup on their SUV body. 2. Build a large luxury sedan on their CUV body. 3. Finish building out the gigafactory and supply battery packs to other car companies. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 2:25:19 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is Tesla going to be financially viable in 36 months? How long have the Tesla haters on this board been saying Tesla is about finished? 5 years? 4 years? I think this is driven more by the desire, the downright need for Tesla to fail by lots of folks here and they will cherrypick stats to validate the position I can google “service nightmare” or “poor quality” or “fire” followed by just about any manufacturer and gets tons of hits and stories Do it for Tesla and “look at that, they suck and are going to fail....” The big difference in Tesla and others When their back has been against the wall they raised money themselves where the likes of GM had to get uncle sugar taxpayer to get them out of the hole. How many people here said there would never be a model 3 or model 3 wouldn’t be selling like it is? The fact is there are a lot here (as evidenced by this thread title) that desperately want Tesla to fail. Many have predicted it to be long before now Tesla’s today is stronger than it was when those predictions were made |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 2:47:17 PM EST
[#26]
When Fremont factory was run by “real” auto makers Toyota and GM the highest volume that rolled out of that factory was 428,633 cars in a year
Tesla will approach or slightly exceed 400,000 this year Not too far off the big boys for a tech company that doesn’t know shit about building cars I mean really A nobody like Tesla goes up against 160 years of combined auto manufacturing experience and this nobody Musk fella and his “pie in the sky” ideas about match them in basically 2 years (2 years since model 3 mass production started) |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 2:53:37 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They could be. 1. Declare bankruptcy, shed the $26B in liabilities. Fire the whole board. 2. Jettison Shanghai and Buffalo. Close the showrooms, dealerships and service centers. Get rid of anything related to Solar City, solar panels, energy storage, solar roof, power pack, power wall, insurance, music, tequila, or anything else that isn't the production of luxury BEVs. 3. Recapitalize the company. Stand up a new board with real auto industry experience, devoid of anyone with more than 1/2048th genetic relatedness to Elon. 4. Throw away all the current car designs. Rework Fremont to build a luxury CUV, a large luxury SUV, and the Roadster. And I mean actual luxury. Not "indistinguishable from a top trim Honda Civic" luxury. 5. Require a credit card on file for supercharger use for Tesla owners. Allow anyone else to also pay to use them, at a much higher rate. 6. Partner with established luxury dealer networks. Sell directly to them and let them find the end customers and handle service. If they started today, and did it right, and actually you know tested the cars and shook out the manufacturing process before starting full rate production, they would be on their way to being financially viable in 36 months. They might be doing low rate production by then. Then they could think about what to do next: 1. Build an ultra-luxury pickup on their SUV body. 2. Build a large luxury sedan on their CUV body. 3. Finish building out the gigafactory and supply battery packs to other car companies. That’s a lot of words just to say “no” |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 3:02:19 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When Fremont factory was run by “real” auto makers Toyota and GM the highest volume that rolled out of that factory was 428,633 cars in a year Tesla will approach or slightly exceed 400,000 this year Not too far off the big boys for a tech company that doesn’t know shit about building cars I mean really A nobody like Tesla goes up against 160 years of combined auto manufacturing experience and this nobody Musk fella and his “pie in the sky” ideas about match them in basically 2 years (2 years since model 3 mass production started) People are critical of Tesla not from hatred but rather shady business deals/decisions and the lack of any genuine profit. The company makes money not from selling vehicles but carbon credits to other auto manufacturers. Musk hasn't matched anything, he has just proven that zealots will gobble up shit quality vehicles and proclaim them to be the greatest thing ever. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 3:16:36 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GM/Toyota were building those vehicles properly in a controlled facility and focused on having as few issues as possible per 100 vehicles. If they wanted to make vehicles in a tent, as fast as they could throw them together, their numbers could be a lot higher than their peak. People are critical of Tesla not from hatred but rather shady business deals/decisions and the lack of any genuine profit. The company makes money not from selling vehicles but carbon credits to other auto manufacturers. Musk hasn't matched anything, he has just proven that zealots will gobble up shit quality vehicles and proclaim them to be the greatest thing ever. He is one of the leading experts in auto quality production https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleantechnica.com/2019/04/06/auto-industry-expert-in-lean-design-sandy-munro-gushes-over-tesla-in-new-video/amp/ |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 3:37:45 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sandy Munro disagrees with you He is one of the leading experts in auto quality production https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleantechnica.com/2019/04/06/auto-industry-expert-in-lean-design-sandy-munro-gushes-over-tesla-in-new-video/amp/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: GM/Toyota were building those vehicles properly in a controlled facility and focused on having as few issues as possible per 100 vehicles. If they wanted to make vehicles in a tent, as fast as they could throw them together, their numbers could be a lot higher than their peak. People are critical of Tesla not from hatred but rather shady business deals/decisions and the lack of any genuine profit. The company makes money not from selling vehicles but carbon credits to other auto manufacturers. Musk hasn't matched anything, he has just proven that zealots will gobble up shit quality vehicles and proclaim them to be the greatest thing ever. He is one of the leading experts in auto quality production https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleantechnica.com/2019/04/06/auto-industry-expert-in-lean-design-sandy-munro-gushes-over-tesla-in-new-video/amp/ Tesla fails in reliability |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 3:43:00 PM EST
[#31]
I’ll make my usual statement, Elon should be banned from materially managing or being involved in a public company and the previous SEC settlements are pure horse shit. He committed blatant violations on repeated occasions that would have had anyone else put in time out.
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Posted: 9/6/2019 3:51:47 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sandy Munro disagrees with you He is one of the leading experts in auto quality production https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleantechnica.com/2019/04/06/auto-industry-expert-in-lean-design-sandy-munro-gushes-over-tesla-in-new-video/amp/ |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 3:58:32 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A question I have is, well a few questions How long have the Tesla haters on this board been saying Tesla is about finished? 5 years? 4 years? I think this is driven more by the desire, the downright need for Tesla to fail by lots of folks here and they will cherrypick stats to validate the position I can google "service nightmare" or "poor quality" or "fire" followed by just about any manufacturer and gets tons of hits and stories Do it for Tesla and "look at that, they suck and are going to fail...." The big difference in Tesla and others When their back has been against the wall they raised money themselves where the likes of GM had to get uncle sugar taxpayer to get them out of the hole. How many people here said there would never be a model 3 or model 3 wouldn't be selling like it is? The fact is there are a lot here (as evidenced by this thread title) that desperately want Tesla to fail. Many have predicted it to be long before now Tesla's today is stronger than it was when those predictions were made Tesla is borrowing cash, and using that cash to pay their employees and keep the lights on. How long can Tesla continue to borrow money? Honestly, I don't have a clue. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 4:02:13 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryAhhhh the Forbes article copying the consumer reports
Ha ha ha Consumer reports has long ago stopped being a reliable review magazine In particular their auto section Here is a link to the flaws in their methodology https://www.allpar.com/cr.html This is the same consumer reports that got slammed really hard when they reviewed the model S and claimed it was the best car of any kind they had ever tested They have flip flopped their Tesla reviews several times Watch the sandy Munro videos They are enlightening especially the parts he talks about tesl critics and analysts that spout blantentky false info and he has pictures and data that prove them false |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 4:02:16 PM EST
[#35]
https://mashable.com/article/elon-musk-electric-vehicle-porsche-burn/
Remember when PCs had turbo buttons? Remember when K.I.T.T. had a rocket assisted "Turbo Boost"? 
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Posted: 9/6/2019 4:03:02 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ll make my usual statement, Elon should be banned from materially managing or being involved in a public company and the previous SEC settlements are pure horse shit. He committed blatant violations on repeated occasions that would have had anyone else put in time out. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 4:07:18 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ahhhh the Forbes article copying the consumer reports Ha ha ha Consumer reports has long ago stopped being a reliable review magazine In particular their auto section Here is a link to the flaws in their methodology https://www.allpar.com/cr.html This is the same consumer reports that got slammed really hard when they reviewed the model S and claimed it was the best car of any kind they had ever tested They have flip flopped their Tesla reviews several times Watch the sandy Munro videos They are enlightening especially the parts he talks about tesl critics and analysts that spout blantentky false info and he has pictures and data that prove them false Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ha ha ha Consumer reports has long ago stopped being a reliable review magazine In particular their auto section Here is a link to the flaws in their methodology https://www.allpar.com/cr.html This is the same consumer reports that got slammed really hard when they reviewed the model S and claimed it was the best car of any kind they had ever tested They have flip flopped their Tesla reviews several times Watch the sandy Munro videos They are enlightening especially the parts he talks about tesl critics and analysts that spout blantentky false info and he has pictures and data that prove them false They may have been well "Designed" but the crew throwing them together in the parking lot, via inside of a tent, are not doing the job. They are slapping parts together and don't have a care in the world on if it matches or will work, in the long run. And a company/reviewer is free to change their opinions on things, based on more data. I don't personally care much for CR but they have some good data here and there. Their critique of Tesla, which pissed Musk and his fans off, were valid. Especially considering updates had to be pushed out, after the testing data was published to fix the very issue that CR displayed. There is nothing enlightening about Munro's videos, especially when the real world data is running completely contrary to his findings. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 4:09:03 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He is erratic and unprofessional and, in my non-business educated opinion, unethical. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I’ll make my usual statement, Elon should be banned from materially managing or being involved in a public company and the previous SEC settlements are pure horse shit. He committed blatant violations on repeated occasions that would have had anyone else put in time out. Musk is morally and ethically bankrupt. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 4:36:16 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except it isn't false info when you don't even have to take their vehicles apart to see them fall apart. From bumpers falling off in the rain to their interior being not installed properly, their vehicles are NOT well made. They may have been well "Designed" but the crew throwing them together in the parking lot, via inside of a tent, are not doing the job. They are slapping parts together and don't have a care in the world on if it matches or will work, in the long run. And a company/reviewer is free to change their opinions on things, based on more data. I don't personally care much for CR but they have some good data here and there. Their critique of Tesla, which pissed Musk and his fans off, were valid. Especially considering updates had to be pushed out, after the testing data was published to fix the very issue that CR displayed. There is nothing enlightening about Munro's videos, especially when the real world data is running completely contrary to his findings. Is only because fanboys are fine spending that kind of cash on a steaming pile of shit haphazardly thrown together in a parking lot With absolutely no interest in quality control that fall apart in the rain at high rates is only because of fanboy attitude? That the sales keep going up and up and up with that experience on a regular basis As more and more people ride in them and that converts to more and more orders when they are falling apart in the rain at high rates? Bullshit Yea, I am a fanboy As such I’m in a local Tesla club There are about 150 of us We meet once a month Talk about everything Tesla I have had 2 First one was so extraordinary I upgraded the the new model with ludicrous Most in the club are model 3 owners No joke Literally NONE of them experience what you claim Literally NONE They are all fanboys hence the club membership It’s a small sample But it is true They are increasing sales at a higher rate than anyone else I guess the world is really whacky in that the fastest growing car company is cranking out steaming piles of shit That fall apart in the rain at high rates It’s really like the Tesla battery fire thing There have been very few in reality There has only been one in a model 3 that I know of and that’s after a wreck But there is still a narrative that Tesla’s catch on fire a lot |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 4:47:44 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what your telling me is that the brand with the highest customer satisfaction rating from that publication Is only because fanboys are fine spending that kind of cash on a steaming pile of shit haphazardly thrown together in a parking lot With absolutely no interest in quality control that fall apart in the rain at high rates is only because of fanboy attitude? That the sales keep going up and up and up with that experience on a regular basis As more and more people ride in them and that converts to more and more orders when they are falling apart in the rain at high rates? Bullshit Yea, I am a fanboy As such I’m in a local Tesla club There are about 150 of us We meet once a month Talk about everything Tesla I have had 2 First one was so extraordinary I upgraded the the new model with ludicrous Most in the club are model 3 owners No joke Literally NONE of them experience what you claim Literally NONE They are all fanboys hence the club membership It’s a small sample But it is true They are increasing sales at a higher rate than anyone else I guess the world is really whacky in that the fastest growing car company is cranking out steaming piles of shit That fall apart in the rain at high rates It’s really like the Tesla battery fire thing There have been very few in reality There has only been one in a model 3 that I know of and that’s after a wreck But there is still a narrative that Tesla’s catch on fire a lot Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Except it isn't false info when you don't even have to take their vehicles apart to see them fall apart. From bumpers falling off in the rain to their interior being not installed properly, their vehicles are NOT well made. They may have been well "Designed" but the crew throwing them together in the parking lot, via inside of a tent, are not doing the job. They are slapping parts together and don't have a care in the world on if it matches or will work, in the long run. And a company/reviewer is free to change their opinions on things, based on more data. I don't personally care much for CR but they have some good data here and there. Their critique of Tesla, which pissed Musk and his fans off, were valid. Especially considering updates had to be pushed out, after the testing data was published to fix the very issue that CR displayed. There is nothing enlightening about Munro's videos, especially when the real world data is running completely contrary to his findings. Is only because fanboys are fine spending that kind of cash on a steaming pile of shit haphazardly thrown together in a parking lot With absolutely no interest in quality control that fall apart in the rain at high rates is only because of fanboy attitude? That the sales keep going up and up and up with that experience on a regular basis As more and more people ride in them and that converts to more and more orders when they are falling apart in the rain at high rates? Bullshit Yea, I am a fanboy As such I’m in a local Tesla club There are about 150 of us We meet once a month Talk about everything Tesla I have had 2 First one was so extraordinary I upgraded the the new model with ludicrous Most in the club are model 3 owners No joke Literally NONE of them experience what you claim Literally NONE They are all fanboys hence the club membership It’s a small sample But it is true They are increasing sales at a higher rate than anyone else I guess the world is really whacky in that the fastest growing car company is cranking out steaming piles of shit That fall apart in the rain at high rates It’s really like the Tesla battery fire thing There have been very few in reality There has only been one in a model 3 that I know of and that’s after a wreck But there is still a narrative that Tesla’s catch on fire a lot You're not the only one with experiences and the fact is that you keep pulling shit out of your ass because you love the brand/vehicle. Facts remain, they are not put together properly, they are a rush job that is thrown together in a damned tent. Sales only seem to grow when incentives are thrown at it. We've seen sales plummet and demand die down, even when it comes to your vaunted Tesla. Keep on drinking that koolaide and forgiving every damned mistake, shortcut and issue that Tesla/Musk make. As to the fire thing, welcome to being the Ford Pinto. The vehicle statistically didn't catch fire more often than any other vehicle on the road but the perception was that you were dead in it. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 4:56:06 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sandy Munro disagrees with you He is one of the leading experts in auto quality production https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleantechnica.com/2019/04/06/auto-industry-expert-in-lean-design-sandy-munro-gushes-over-tesla-in-new-video/amp/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: GM/Toyota were building those vehicles properly in a controlled facility and focused on having as few issues as possible per 100 vehicles. If they wanted to make vehicles in a tent, as fast as they could throw them together, their numbers could be a lot higher than their peak. People are critical of Tesla not from hatred but rather shady business deals/decisions and the lack of any genuine profit. The company makes money not from selling vehicles but carbon credits to other auto manufacturers. Musk hasn't matched anything, he has just proven that zealots will gobble up shit quality vehicles and proclaim them to be the greatest thing ever. He is one of the leading experts in auto quality production https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleantechnica.com/2019/04/06/auto-industry-expert-in-lean-design-sandy-munro-gushes-over-tesla-in-new-video/amp/ |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 5:05:39 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL. No he doesn't. You're just cherry picking things Sandy has said about Tesla. Weren't you one of the people here who was calling Sandy a dinosaur and a shill for the big 3 when he was talking about Tesla's poor build quality? I’m not a car guy really I didn’t know who he was until he started getting a lot of press in Tesla forums And yes, he does disagree or at least that’s the impression I get from the 6-8 videos I’ve watched or the radio show clips I’ve listened too |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 5:27:26 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet every single Tesla I've ever personally seen has water leaking into the tail lights, I've personally witnessed interior ripping up in a Model X back up in WA and have witnessed hellish wait times to get their vehicles fixed/back on the road. You're not the only one with experiences and the fact is that you keep pulling shit out of your ass because you love the brand/vehicle. Facts remain, they are not put together properly, they are a rush job that is thrown together in a damned tent. Sales only seem to grow when incentives are thrown at it. We've seen sales plummet and demand die down, even when it comes to your vaunted Tesla. Keep on drinking that koolaide and forgiving every damned mistake, shortcut and issue that Tesla/Musk make. As to the fire thing, welcome to being the Ford Pinto. The vehicle statistically didn't catch fire more often than any other vehicle on the road but the perception was that you were dead in it. You do know it was only for people responding to the 2017 model year right The year of the very first few model 3s and the year of the all dual motor air suspension on the S right? This thread started on oct 2, 2017 It was ripping Tesla for not producing 5000 model 3s a week It was designed to suggest Tesla was going down because they hadn’t hit that target complete with “experts” stating they knew 5k a week Was pie in the sky bs Institutional investors that study these things as a matter of survival for their businesses are dramatically increasing their stakes in Tesla I think if they believed them to be piles of steaming shit they wouldn’t be increasing their positions So far Tesla is selling more and more cars and their sales growth is higher than any other carmaker If what you say is really true to the degree you suggest I doubt the institutional investors would be buying in at the rate they are and the sales would not be increasing at the rate they are Until institutional investors start dumping at a higher rate than buying and sales start declining I just don’t believe you |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 5:46:01 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know that consumer reports got 400,000 responses total right? How many were Tesla owners? I’d say the responses from Tesla were a very small subset You do know it was only for people responding to the 2017 model year right The year of the very first few model 3s and the year of the all dual motor air suspension on the S right? This thread started on oct 2, 2017 It was ripping Tesla for not producing 5000 model 3s a week It was designed to suggest Tesla was going down because they hadn’t hit that target complete with “experts” stating they knew 5k a week Was pie in the sky bs Institutional investors that study these things as a matter of survival for their businesses are dramatically increasing their stakes in Tesla I think if they believed them to be piles of steaming shit they wouldn’t be increasing their positions So far Tesla is selling more and more cars and their sales growth is higher than any other carmaker If what you say is really true to the degree you suggest I doubt the institutional investors would be buying in at the rate they are and the sales would not be increasing at the rate they are Until institutional investors start dumping at a higher rate than buying and sales start declining I just don’t believe you Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: And yet every single Tesla I've ever personally seen has water leaking into the tail lights, I've personally witnessed interior ripping up in a Model X back up in WA and have witnessed hellish wait times to get their vehicles fixed/back on the road. You're not the only one with experiences and the fact is that you keep pulling shit out of your ass because you love the brand/vehicle. Facts remain, they are not put together properly, they are a rush job that is thrown together in a damned tent. Sales only seem to grow when incentives are thrown at it. We've seen sales plummet and demand die down, even when it comes to your vaunted Tesla. Keep on drinking that koolaide and forgiving every damned mistake, shortcut and issue that Tesla/Musk make. As to the fire thing, welcome to being the Ford Pinto. The vehicle statistically didn't catch fire more often than any other vehicle on the road but the perception was that you were dead in it. You do know it was only for people responding to the 2017 model year right The year of the very first few model 3s and the year of the all dual motor air suspension on the S right? This thread started on oct 2, 2017 It was ripping Tesla for not producing 5000 model 3s a week It was designed to suggest Tesla was going down because they hadn’t hit that target complete with “experts” stating they knew 5k a week Was pie in the sky bs Institutional investors that study these things as a matter of survival for their businesses are dramatically increasing their stakes in Tesla I think if they believed them to be piles of steaming shit they wouldn’t be increasing their positions So far Tesla is selling more and more cars and their sales growth is higher than any other carmaker If what you say is really true to the degree you suggest I doubt the institutional investors would be buying in at the rate they are and the sales would not be increasing at the rate they are Until institutional investors start dumping at a higher rate than buying and sales start declining I just don’t believe you You're "not a car guy" and yet you belong to an auto club. Or are we to proclaim that a Tesla club isn't an auto club because Tesla themselves touts that they are a technology company? Also, of course they are having further "growth" than other car brands. Ford, Toyota, GM, etc have all been selling cars for ages. They are stealing customers from each other and gaining very few "new" customers, the same issue is happening in the smartphone world. Apple/Android fight over market share from each other, both have saturated the market. Tesla JUST STARTED to sell, they are going to go up until the point that they don't. Demand has started to die for the "high end" vehicles and top of the line Model 3. Tesla has doublebacked on the "entry" Model 3, yet another of Musk's lies. Let me put things into perspective for you. Toyota last year (2018) in USA alone sold a total of 343,439 Camry models. One singular model in the good ol US of A. Tesla on the other hand, has sold a total of 244,920 (2018) worldwide, in terms of total deliveries. Toyota with ONE model and ONE country absolutely destroyed and humiliated the entirety of the Tesla fleet AND made money while doing it. Each vehicle sold by Toyota generated actual tangible usable revenue. This is a large area that Tesla cannot lay any claim to, with their debts being as massive as they are. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 6:47:36 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, keep on being a zealot and drinking that koolaide. Keep backing the cooked books, ignoring problems as they come up by places that give actual feedback and run back to the "investors are still buying" mentality. You're "not a car guy" and yet you belong to an auto club. Or are we to proclaim that a Tesla club isn't an auto club because Tesla themselves touts that they are a technology company? Also, of course they are having further "growth" than other car brands. Ford, Toyota, GM, etc have all been selling cars for ages. They are stealing customers from each other and gaining very few "new" customers, the same issue is happening in the smartphone world. Apple/Android fight over market share from each other, both have saturated the market. Tesla JUST STARTED to sell, they are going to go up until the point that they don't. Demand has started to die for the "high end" vehicles and top of the line Model 3. Tesla has doublebacked on the "entry" Model 3, yet another of Musk's lies. Let me put things into perspective for you. Toyota last year (2018) in USA alone sold a total of 343,439 Camry models. One singular model in the good ol US of A. Tesla on the other hand, has sold a total of 244,920 (2018) worldwide, in terms of total deliveries. Toyota with ONE model and ONE country absolutely destroyed and humiliated the entirety of the Tesla fleet AND made money while doing it. Each vehicle sold by Toyota generated actual tangible usable revenue. This is a large area that Tesla cannot lay any claim to, with their debts being as massive as they are. Your never going to buy a Tesla You obviously don’t like them Why do you care? Why do you take the time to post how crappy Tesla is? Why is there a 93 page thread here about how bad Tesla is? You can dog on Tesla fans for being zealots But Jesus, there’s a 93 page anti Tesla thread here Why? Tesla must be doing something right to trigger you guys so hard |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 6:52:13 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So why do you care Your never going to buy a Tesla You obviously don't like them Why do you care? Why do you take the time to post how crappy Tesla is? Why is there a 93 page thread here about how bad Tesla is? You can dog on Tesla fans for being zealots But Jesus, there's a 93 page anti Tesla thread here Why? Tesla must be doing something right to trigger you guys so hard |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 6:57:28 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No I wasn’t I’m not a car guy really I didn’t know who he was until he started getting a lot of press in Tesla forums And yes, he does disagree or at least that’s the impression I get from the 6-8 videos I’ve watched or the radio show clips I’ve listened too https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-by-engineering-firm-reveals-qual-1822678045 “These are the things we’d see on a Kia in the 90’s” was his most quoted line. He only gets attention in the Tesla forums when he says something they like. I know Sandy and he’s an honest guy. He is neither pro Tesla or anti Tesla. Anything that you read into it either way is your own bias coming through. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 7:11:19 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what happens if Tesla beats the Taycan time around the track? 0-60 Tesla wins 1/4 mile Tesla wins Top speed Tesla wins Fully optioned top of the line Tesla is half the price (If the interior is the deal breaker take the 125,000 you saved on the Tesla and go to a custom shop and do 125k custom job that would be exactly how you designed it) Tesla wins Track time around Porsche home track (if Tesla pulls it off) Tesla wins Range Tesla 50% more 50%! Tesla wins Auto pilot should you choose to use it at your option Tesla wins Over the air updates adding performance/security/safety features Tesla wins Fast charging network Tesla wins VW group has put 6.6 billion $ into its electric car program “When the big boys get in the game Tesla is done” Well, the most prestigious name in the “big boy” club just debuted their offerings It’s twice as expensive, less performance in pretty much every category They have the luxurious interior and the name on the hood For the same $ get a custom interior job and a Porsche badge from a junkyard Or just wait for the roadster 2 to come out and pay less Go 3x as far Go 100mph faster Go 0-60 30% quicker Etc etc |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 7:24:48 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tesla might be profitable if they doubled the price of their cars. Maybe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So what happens if Tesla beats the Taycan time around the track? 0-60 Tesla wins 1/4 mile Tesla wins Top speed Tesla wins Fully optioned top of the line Tesla is half the price (If the interior is the deal breaker take the 125,000 you saved on the Tesla and go to a custom shop and do 125k custom job that would be exactly how you designed it) Tesla wins Track time around Porsche home track (if Tesla pulls it off) Tesla wins Range Tesla 50% more 50%! Tesla wins Auto pilot should you choose to use it at your option Tesla wins Over the air updates adding performance/security/safety features Tesla wins Fast charging network Tesla wins VW group has put 6.6 billion $ into its electric car program “When the big boys get in the game Tesla is done” Well, the most prestigious name in the “big boy” club just debuted their offerings It’s twice as expensive, less performance in pretty much every category They have the luxurious interior and the name on the hood For the same $ get a custom interior job and a Porsche badge from a junkyard Or just wait for the roadster 2 to come out and pay less Go 3x as far Go 100mph faster Go 0-60 30% quicker Etc etc |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 7:31:46 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The first cars are rolling off of their new factory in China 
Nice wording. Bolting together knock down kits from Fremont is not a functioning production facility. https://techcrunch.com/2019/07/24/tesla-on-track-to-begin-model-3-production-at-china-factory-by-end-of-year/ |
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