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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:02:02 AM EDT
[#1]
FATF
Only thing I can say. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:04:41 AM EDT
[#2]
The political weaponization of law enforcement and regulatory agencies is going to be what destroys this country.
"We can't make change in Congress so we'll just sick the FBI/ATF/IRS/EPA on them." |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:04:53 AM EDT
[#3]
Coming to every FFL near you. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:06:15 AM EDT
[#4]
How ofter (if ever) are FFL’s normally audited?
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:06:29 AM EDT
[#5]
13,000 transactions....we just can't be having that now, can we?
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:07:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Sounds like a regular ATF audit to me.
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:08:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How ofter (if ever) are FFL’s normally audited? We got them twice a year when I managed a gun store. Our "time to crime ratio" was too high, they said, so they came every 6 mos. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:13:56 AM EDT
[#8]
... They dare to question the alphabetic identification of Austin!!??!?!?! TRIGGERED!!!!
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:15:52 AM EDT
[#9]
It must take them a long time to photograph all those log books and documents.
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:17:01 AM EDT
[#10]
FTF FTW
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:18:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Machine guns should be in vending machines.
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:18:49 AM EDT
[#12]
Know what's seriously fucked up? They might pull his license for allowing those two incorrect spellings past.
The ATF have been real darlings lately. Orders from the top I gather. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:20:43 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How ofter (if ever) are FFL’s normally audited? Anywhere from annually to never. It depends on a lot of factors and ATF voodoo. If the IOI likes you and you don't have any crime guns pop up - probably just the initial interview. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:23:45 AM EDT
[#14]
The ATF is a crime against The Constitution. And that’s the least offensive thing I want to say about them.
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:27:00 AM EDT
[#15]
The ATF went after me and scolded me because they misspelled my 1st name wrong and I shouldn't have let it slide. I told them the name was wrong when I got my FFL and they said not to worry to about it. Then on an inspection, they scolded me.
Josef....JOSEPH.... József  They are creating criminals... |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:36:12 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The political weaponization of law enforcement and regulatory agencies is going to be what destroys this country. "We can't make change in Congress so we'll just sick the FBI/ATF/IRS/EPA on them." "And we will make you spend your life savings on lawyers." |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:36:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Show me the man, I'll find you the crime.
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:39:46 AM EDT
[#18]
I’m sure their body cams will show they’re acting in good faith.
Oh wait. Only local cops wear body cams. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:44:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The political weaponization of law enforcement and regulatory agencies is going to be what destroys this country. "We can't make change in Congress so we'll just sick the FBI/ATF/IRS/EPA on them." Yup, but it’s the “easy button” for politicians, so they’ll keep smashing it. It’s entirely possible we haven’t been hearing about it, but I’m a little shocked they haven’t been weaponized more heavily. Seems we’ve now heard of a few instances of them going off the rails and taking licenses over trivial BS, but with the amount of leeway they have with warrantless inspections and how many opportunities there are for minor errors on 4473s, I’m shocked we haven’t been there for years. If they really wanted to, I’m sure they could eliminate 90%+ of licensees in fairly short order. Talk about banning guns, shit. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:52:39 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like a regular ATF audit to me. Except now they use this as a pretext to shut down a gun store and investigate and or threaten charges for fraud and lying on 4473 against anyone they can go after, all because of a simple spelling error and administrative issue on two, out of thousands of forms. It's the new normal. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:56:02 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Know what's seriously fucked up? They might pull his license for allowing those two incorrect spellings past. The ATF have been real darlings lately. Orders from the top I gather. If they would only match signatures properly on mail-in ballots like this. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:56:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The political weaponization of law enforcement and regulatory agencies is going to be what destroys this country. "We can't make change in Congress so we'll just sick the FBI/ATF/IRS/EPA on them." The IRS is going to be the fun one to deal with. Guarantee they’re making a list. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:57:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Machine guns should be in vending machines. 
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Posted: 6/30/2023 8:59:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Know what's seriously fucked up? They might pull his license for allowing those two incorrect spellings past. The ATF have been real darlings lately. Orders from the top I gather. Correct! Under Bidens new ATF law it's called "zero tolerance" 1 mistake and they can pull your FFL. There goal is to cut down on the number of FFL businesses and they have already closed a lot in the last few years. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:05:33 AM EDT
[#25]
That's just a compliance inspection. Far from going after them. My store is tiny and I've had inspections take 3 days with multiple agents.
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:07:42 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We got them twice a year when I managed a gun store. Our "time to crime ratio" was too high, they said, so they came every 6 mos. I get audited every 5 years. My average gun trace "time to crime ratio" is 6 years. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:09:08 AM EDT
[#27]
Are they shutting down FFLs in your area? I haven't seen any get closed where I'm at. I've heard of a couple different FFLs getting this Austin treatment though none were around me. Are these mainly in large population areas where the police recover alot of cri e scene guns or is there some other criteria the FATF has came up with to decide who's getting the administrative colonoscopy?
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:09:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Know what's seriously fucked up? They might pull his license for allowing those two incorrect spellings past. No one is getting their license pulled because of typos. If that FFL gets a trace request every week because they make a living selling SCCYs and High points, that's another story. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:13:08 AM EDT
[#29]
I wonder what would happen, in the purely academic sense, if the next time the ATF raided an FFL if 1500 angry and armed citizens showed up and surrounded them?
Edit: I know the difference between a raid and a compliance inspection. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:13:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's just a compliance inspection. Far from going after them. My store is tiny and I've had inspections take 3 days with multiple agents. GD sees a vast conspiracy behind every FFL compliance inspection. What's left out of all of these discussions is that the license holder ASKED to be licensed and agreed to the terms of the license (which includes regular inspections and strict adherence to the rules). To be an FFL is to be a cog in the machinery of the ATF. They are part of the system. That's what they signed up for. If you don't want to be the ATF's bitch, then don't send in the application. It's quite simple. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:17:27 AM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:19:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It must take them a long time to photograph all those log books and documents. You realize all those 4473s and log books are the ATFs property. They can do whatever they want with them. The FFL does not own any of those documents/forms. The FFL is just acting as a licensed agent responsible for the storage and safekeeping as required by law in compliance with their license. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:22:27 AM EDT
[#33]
I don't do twitter so I can't read the link in the op.
No one has mentioned it yet, but I'm assuming that this is the same Michael Cargill from the case of Cargill v. Garland. https://www.ammoland.com/2023/01/groundbreaking-ruling-5th-circuit-strikes-down-atf-bump-stock-ban/#axzz867dnFEqx The opinion continues to show why the plaintiff, Cargill, is correct and why the Constitution does not allow administrative agencies to make their own criminal law: Cargill is correct. A plain reading of the statutory language, paired with close consideration of the mechanics of a semi-automatic firearm, re-veals that a bump stock is excluded from the technical definition of “machinegun” set forth in the Gun Control Act and National Firearms Act. The definition of “machinegun” as set forth in the National Firearms Act and Gun Control Act does not apply to bump stocks. And if there were any doubt as to this conclusion, we conclude that the statutory definition is ambiguous, at the very least. The rule of lenity therefore compels us to construe the statute in Cargill’s favor. Either way, we must REVERSE.  Same guy? |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:27:13 AM EDT
[#34]
The law allows ATF to conduct one inspection every 12 months without a warrant to ensure compliance with the GCA and its regulations. 18 USC 923(g)(1)(B).
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:29:47 AM EDT
[#35]
Are they really that anal about no abbreviations or they ramp it up under biden?
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:34:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same guy? Yes it is. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:35:55 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except now they use this as a pretext to shut down a gun store and investigate and or threaten charges for fraud and lying on 4473 against anyone they can go after, all because of a simple spelling error and administrative issue on two, out of thousands of forms. It's the new normal. They did that in 2008. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:37:18 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are they really that anal about no abbreviations or they ramp it up under biden? I have never been told I can't have abbreviations on the 4473. But they are insanely anal about mistakes/typos. It's amazing the stuff they find. If they take 1000 forms, they will find the one I dated it logged out the day after the customer dated it. They will find the one the customer dated it with his birthday instead of the actual date. They will find the one time the customer didn't check the us citizen box. They will find the one time I wrote down their birth date instead of the EXP date of the ID. As anal as they are, from what I know even if ATF said, no big deal - every one of those little mistakes is an instant win for the plaintiff in a potential civil suit. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:38:31 AM EDT
[#39]
Audit doesn’t equal “went after”
They are common and this dealer does a ton of transfers With that being said, FATF. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:39:49 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't do twitter so I can't read the link in the op. No one has mentioned it yet, but I'm assuming that this is the same Michael Cargill from the case of Cargill v. Garland. https://www.ammoland.com/2023/01/groundbreaking-ruling-5th-circuit-strikes-down-atf-bump-stock-ban/#axzz867dnFEqx Same guy? Same guy. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:41:29 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How ofter (if ever) are FFL’s normally audited? My local guy has seen them twice, maybe three times in twenty years. Small operation. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:42:24 AM EDT
[#42]
The customers spelled Austin wrong?
There goes their license. PERFECTION is the only standard that the government applies to FFLs. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:42:31 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD sees a vast conspiracy behind every FFL compliance inspection. What's left out of all of these discussions is that the license holder ASKED to be licensed and agreed to the terms of the license (which includes regular inspections and strict adherence to the rules). To be an FFL is to be a cog in the machinery of the ATF. They are part of the system. That's what they signed up for. If you don't want to be the ATF's bitch, then don't send in the application. It's quite simple. That's a garbage viewpoint. Why do you need Daddy. Gov's permission to sell a legal product? They shouldn't have to sign up for anything. Do you believe in freedom? I should be able to sell suppressors in vending machines. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:44:47 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:If they really wanted to, I’m sure they could eliminate 90%+ of licensees in fairly short order. Talk about banning guns, shit. Grab every customer database from the dope dispensaries and start running it against gun owners, politicians, and police officers. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:45:59 AM EDT
[#45]
Licensing requirements to be in the business of selling arms aren't any better than licensing requirements to own and carry them, and we have been seeing plenty of examples why lately.
None are consistent with the Constitution. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:46:29 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You realize all those 4473s and log books are the ATFs property. They can do whatever they want with them. The FFL does not own any of those documents/forms. The FFL is just acting as a licensed agent responsible for the storage and safekeeping as required by law in compliance with their license. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It must take them a long time to photograph all those log books and documents. You realize all those 4473s and log books are the ATFs property. They can do whatever they want with them. The FFL does not own any of those documents/forms. The FFL is just acting as a licensed agent responsible for the storage and safekeeping as required by law in compliance with their license. I'm not sure what you are defending here. By law they are not supposed to have a registry. But there have been videos showing them taking pictures of every page in the book. So is that being used to craft a registry? They shouldn't be doing it. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:46:48 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have never been told I can't have abbreviations on the 4473. But they are insanely anal about mistakes/typos. It's amazing the stuff they find. If they take 1000 forms, they will find the one I dated it logged out the day after the customer dated it. They will find the one the customer dated it with his birthday instead of the actual date. They will find the one time the customer didn't check the us citizen box. They will find the one time I wrote down their birth date instead of the EXP date of the ID. As anal as they are, from what I know even if ATF said, no big deal - every one of those little mistakes is an instant win for the plaintiff in a potential civil suit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are they really that anal about no abbreviations or they ramp it up under biden? I have never been told I can't have abbreviations on the 4473. But they are insanely anal about mistakes/typos. It's amazing the stuff they find. If they take 1000 forms, they will find the one I dated it logged out the day after the customer dated it. They will find the one the customer dated it with his birthday instead of the actual date. They will find the one time the customer didn't check the us citizen box. They will find the one time I wrote down their birth date instead of the EXP date of the ID. As anal as they are, from what I know even if ATF said, no big deal - every one of those little mistakes is an instant win for the plaintiff in a potential civil suit. It really depends on the relationship you have with the IOIs in your area. Guys have had licenses revoked for that kind of unavoidable minor error in the last year or two. It's messed up. 
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:47:13 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:No one is getting their license pulled because of typos. If that FFL gets a trace request every week because they make a living selling SCCYs and High points, that's another story.  Good to hear that because the stories told here seem to indicate otherwise, that simple admin mistakes were resulting in fines and loss of license. Reality is often only a brief visitor to the GD.  |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:49:42 AM EDT
[#49]
I think some of you are missing this comment on Twitter... definitely adds context
Yes, I have gone through a total of 4 inspections with my 07 license. The difference this time is we are in litigation against the DOJ & ATF with a case that is in front of the US Supreme Court. Because of said litigation, they are supposed to notify my attorney beforehand. |
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Posted: 6/30/2023 9:50:44 AM EDT
[#50]
Mike is good people leading the fight against these fucks, no wonder they are going after him. Btw he is a gay black dude, so let’s see how this works out for the FATF.
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