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Link Posted: 4/28/2019 12:03:39 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:
If I ever got a terminal diagnosis, the temptation to seek out a local branch of this underground trade network, infiltrate it, and then take it out in a blaze of glory and then just stand there and wait for the cops to arrive might be pretty high.

Having sex with children should be a "shoot on sight" crime.
View Quote
I question the usage of the word infiltrate. Not questioning your morals mind, just the word in this context. Having said that I'm right there with you, odds are high.
Link Posted: 4/28/2019 12:08:27 PM EDT
[#2]
I wonder what comes after pedo?

Gay, tranny, animals, surgical alterations, little kids.....  What is the next thing Democrats will get off on?  Just not sure where else there is for them to go after little kids.
Link Posted: 4/28/2019 12:10:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Something else the democrats are responsible for.
Link Posted: 4/28/2019 12:15:34 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Something else the democrats are responsible for.
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True.

The systematic dismantling of western Judeo-Christian values.

To be replaced by the worship of Moloch in everything but name.

If you think the current state of affairs is bad, wait a few years, Satan is coming.
Link Posted: 4/28/2019 12:26:44 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
I question the usage of the word infiltrate. Not questioning your morals mind, just the word in this context. Having said that I'm right there with you, odds are high.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
If I ever got a terminal diagnosis, the temptation to seek out a local branch of this underground trade network, infiltrate it, and then take it out in a blaze of glory and then just stand there and wait for the cops to arrive might be pretty high.

Having sex with children should be a "shoot on sight" crime.
I question the usage of the word infiltrate. Not questioning your morals mind, just the word in this context. Having said that I'm right there with you, odds are high.
Holy shit, started to read the article. Not done yet. Apparently I know fuck all about this. Average age for a girl being sold for sex is 13? WTF? I guess you would have to infiltrate this sort of group. Fucking sick, I don't even know how you'd go about that? Find girls who look young but are 18 and then use them as bait. This is an eye opener.


Debbie, a straight-A student who belonged to a close-knit Air Force family living in Phoenix, Ariz., is an example of this trading of flesh. Debbie was 15 when she was snatched from her driveway by an acquaintance-friend. Forced into a car, Debbie was bound and taken to an unknown location, held at gunpoint and raped by multiple men. She was then crammed into a small dog kennel and forced to eat dog biscuits. Debbie’s captors advertised her services on Craigslist. Those who responded were often married with children, and the money that Debbie “earned” for sex was given to her kidnappers. The gang raping continued. After searching the apartment where Debbie was held captive, police finally found Debbie stuffed in a drawer under a bed. Her harrowing ordeal lasted for 40 days.

While Debbie was fortunate enough to be rescued, others are not so lucky. According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, nearly 800,000 children go missing every year (roughly 2,185 children a day).

With a growing demand for sexual slavery and an endless supply of girls and women who can be targeted for abduction, this is not a problem that’s going away anytime soon.

For those trafficked, it’s a nightmare from beginning to end.
Damn.
Link Posted: 4/28/2019 12:39:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Here's part of the problem:"Holly Austin Smith was abducted when she was 14 years old, raped, and then forced to prostitute herself. Her pimp, when brought to trial, was only made to serve a year in prison."

The pimp should be given a choice if the judge insists on early release.  Give them a choice.  Get out early and lose your balls or keep your balls and serve life. Eunichs have been around for thousands of years.
Link Posted: 4/28/2019 1:06:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:

Debbie, a straight-A student who belonged to a close-knit Air Force family living in Phoenix, Ariz., is an example of this trading of flesh. Debbie was 15 when she was snatched from her driveway by an acquaintance-friend. Forced into a car, Debbie was bound and taken to an unknown location, held at gunpoint and raped by multiple men. She was then crammed into a small dog kennel and forced to eat dog biscuits. Debbie’s captors advertised her services on Craigslist. Those who responded were often married with children, and the money that Debbie “earned” for sex was given to her kidnappers. The gang raping continued. After searching the apartment where Debbie was held captive, police finally found Debbie stuffed in a drawer under a bed. Her harrowing ordeal lasted for 40 days.
View Quote
Damn.
View Quote
I heard the same story, only the girl was missing a foot.
Link Posted: 4/28/2019 1:09:39 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
I wonder what comes after pedo?

Gay, tranny, animals, surgical alterations, little kids.....  What is the next thing Democrats will get off on?  Just not sure where else there is for them to go after little kids.
View Quote
Snuff.  They'll pass it off as respecting other religions, but in reality we'll have undone all social progress since the Romans.
Link Posted: 4/28/2019 1:10:20 PM EDT
[#9]
WTF is wrong with people. Some people are broken and either need rope or left on an prison island
Link Posted: 4/28/2019 1:11:09 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Average age for a girl being sold for sex is 13? WTF? I guess you would have to infiltrate this sort of group.
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I suspect the Latin American gangs behind all of this.  They start young in that part of the world.
Link Posted: 4/28/2019 1:16:37 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
I can't believe there are enough undercover operators looking for these scum.  The gov. should be recruiting thousands of  citizens for this.  I've thought about it several times but I just couldn't stomach what I would be exposed to.
There was a news piece about a lady who learned the language and sought out terrorists on the net. We need more people like her too.
View Quote
Elijah Rising

This group offers the escape path for the victims of human trafficking.
Link Posted: 4/28/2019 2:34:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I wonder what comes after pedo?

Gay, tranny, animals, surgical alterations, little kids.....  What is the next thing Democrats will get off on? Just not sure where else there is for them to go after little kids.
View Quote
Ritualistically murdering people that disagree with them.  
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 1:24:23 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
I question the usage of the word infiltrate. Not questioning your morals mind, just the word in this context. Having said that I'm right there with you, odds are high.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
If I ever got a terminal diagnosis, the temptation to seek out a local branch of this underground trade network, infiltrate it, and then take it out in a blaze of glory and then just stand there and wait for the cops to arrive might be pretty high.

Having sex with children should be a "shoot on sight" crime.
I question the usage of the word infiltrate. Not questioning your morals mind, just the word in this context. Having said that I'm right there with you, odds are high.
Alright, I can see your point...  Not as in "do what they do" because, well... that would defeat the purpose.

In this context, more like "get the inside scoop on major players, best customers, stash houses, trade routes, where the transactions and interactions occur, and so on, so as to best be able to dismantle it and know when and where to strike."  Is that better?
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 1:37:54 AM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Since this is a public website and i am of course a law abiding citizen I would never ever condone brutal vigilante cleansing of every single sexual predator and pedophile on the face of the earth
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Mighty charitable of you

I would offer a counter

But what if we did? Hypothetically. I mean, just something to pontificate on

-I have no mercy for few things, this is right at the top of the list.  If I had to choose between murder or child-rape as the crime punishable by death, chomo's are getting the chair.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 1:54:10 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
Alright, I can see your point...  Not as in "do what they do" because, well... that would defeat the purpose.

In this context, more like "get the inside scoop on major players, best customers, stash houses, trade routes, where the transactions and interactions occur, and so on, so as to best be able to dismantle it and know when and where to strike."  Is that better?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If I ever got a terminal diagnosis, the temptation to seek out a local branch of this underground trade network, infiltrate it, and then take it out in a blaze of glory and then just stand there and wait for the cops to arrive might be pretty high.

Having sex with children should be a "shoot on sight" crime.
I question the usage of the word infiltrate. Not questioning your morals mind, just the word in this context. Having said that I'm right there with you, odds are high.
Alright, I can see your point...  Not as in "do what they do" because, well... that would defeat the purpose.

In this context, more like "get the inside scoop on major players, best customers, stash houses, trade routes, where the transactions and interactions occur, and so on, so as to best be able to dismantle it and know when and where to strike."  Is that better?
Nah man, you had it right from the get go. I hadn't read the article yet, but after doing so I changed my tune. The whole concept of the need to infiltrate just shocked me I guess.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 1:56:15 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Absolutely fucking sick.

I'd be fine with govt kill teams given the sole purpose and intent of making these people disappear.
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But then the .gov would be taking out their own people. (Dems)
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 2:40:53 AM EDT
[#17]
So that's why the 9th District Judge orders "asylum" applicant children to be released.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 3:05:38 AM EDT
[#18]
should be a capital offense
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 4:02:57 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:

@1811guy

Good to hear that.  I thought it was a bit of hyperbole.

There was a medical student a year ahead of me who was arrested for child porn but got the charges reversed many years later.  Kind of a bizarre case where the law at the time was you needed at least 3 child porn images to be prosecuted.  Is that still the case??

This link has the appeal.  Interestingly, Alan Dershowitz was involved.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1177134.html

Not surprising since the medical student came from a very wealthy St-Louis family.  He’s the one on the top right.

https://source.wustl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/160121_naunheim_washu_engineering_bobick_025-1024x819.jpeg

https://source.wustl.edu/2016/10/new-engineering-building-named-schools-former-dean/
View Quote
Is this the guy now? Age matches up

https://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Robert_Mckelvey_14211189/

@C-4
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 4:10:46 AM EDT
[#20]
I thought it was always a problem. Did the USA not have some kind of weird CP newsletter or magazines in the 80?

Fuck, look at Europe in the 60s.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 4:56:11 AM EDT
[#21]
As awful as the kidnappers are and should be brought to justice, there is a market for this. There apparently are a lot of "buyers." They also need to be brought to justice. And according to the article, it could be anyone from any walk of life.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 5:00:23 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
Govt kill teams that have the ability to disappear anyone that is a child sex predator. Great idea. Right up to the point that you find yourself getting set up as a child sex predator, and being disappeared. That sure would be a handy tool, just disappear anyone who is a child sex predator. Im sure there wouldn't suddenly be a rash of govt identified child sex predators being disappeared. Nevermind the fact that once you open that door, it's just one administration away from "outlaw terrorist gun owners hording terrorist assault weapons" who will be targeted for disappearance by Govt kill teams. All for the greater good of course. No one wants pedos or terrorist gun owners threatening the public at large. It is of course for the children. If it just saves one.......... Be careful what you wish for, you may actually get it.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely fucking sick.

I'd be fine with govt kill teams given the sole purpose and intent of making these people disappear.
Govt kill teams that have the ability to disappear anyone that is a child sex predator. Great idea. Right up to the point that you find yourself getting set up as a child sex predator, and being disappeared. That sure would be a handy tool, just disappear anyone who is a child sex predator. Im sure there wouldn't suddenly be a rash of govt identified child sex predators being disappeared. Nevermind the fact that once you open that door, it's just one administration away from "outlaw terrorist gun owners hording terrorist assault weapons" who will be targeted for disappearance by Govt kill teams. All for the greater good of course. No one wants pedos or terrorist gun owners threatening the public at large. It is of course for the children. If it just saves one.......... Be careful what you wish for, you may actually get it.
If pedophilia gets normalized, what will the FBI use to smear people they're about to murder?
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 5:02:49 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
Become? I think it’s been...
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Link Posted: 4/29/2019 6:44:32 AM EDT
[#24]
Big Business in America. Second only to the entire rest of the world.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 6:54:41 AM EDT
[#25]
Those that do that to children should be tortured in the worst way imaginable.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:01:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Another one of life’s problems a .22 long rifle will solve
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:12:00 AM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:
Another one of life’s problems a .22 long rifle will solve
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Some problems cry out for a suppressed .22 solution, others for a thousand yard, precision rifle.  The well prepared problem-solver will have access to both.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:15:37 AM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:
Absolutely fucking sick.

I'd be fine with govt kill teams given the sole purpose and intent of making these people disappear.
View Quote
Why does it have to be government?

It's the government that's enabling it.

Pizza gate anyone?
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:18:09 AM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:
ANY adult who has sex with a child or promotes child sex slavery is pure evil period.  They need to be dealt with swiftly and end up in a maximum security prison for life with it being known they are a child rapist.
View Quote
That's a very, very expensive solution to assuage your fear of doing the right thing.

Would you house and feed a rabid dog for years?
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:23:53 AM EDT
[#30]
I work with sex offenders once they are in prison, specifically online offenders.  Many know they are fucked up and they don't want to be that way.  The ones that get help and work hard seem to be able to turn their life around and are unlikely to reoffend.  Then we have many who are unwilling to acknowledge their issue, will not accept help, and there isn't anything we are able to do about it other than flag them, document ongoing behavioral issues and hope their PO has better luck post-incarceration.  Some its not a matter of if they reoffended, its when and how many will be hurt.  Its sad and disheartening at times.

The stuff 1811guy sees I cannot imagine.  Its bad enough when Im reading through presentence reports and actually have them tell me what all they were doing.

@1811guy, keep up the good work.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:45:04 AM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:
Is this the guy now? Age matches up

https://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Robert_Mckelvey_14211189/

@C-4
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Quoted:
Quoted:

@1811guy

Good to hear that.  I thought it was a bit of hyperbole.

There was a medical student a year ahead of me who was arrested for child porn but got the charges reversed many years later.  Kind of a bizarre case where the law at the time was you needed at least 3 child porn images to be prosecuted.  Is that still the case??

This link has the appeal.  Interestingly, Alan Dershowitz was involved.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1177134.html

Not surprising since the medical student came from a very wealthy St-Louis family.  He’s the one on the top right.

https://source.wustl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/160121_naunheim_washu_engineering_bobick_025-1024x819.jpeg

https://source.wustl.edu/2016/10/new-engineering-building-named-schools-former-dean/
Is this the guy now? Age matches up

https://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Robert_Mckelvey_14211189/

@C-4
@Merrell

No.  The picture I posted of him in the paper is only from 2 years ago and he didn’t look much different in medical school.

He wanted to be a pediatrician.

He was a drug rep for several years but seemed to bounce from job to job every couple of years.

He had to have spent time in federal prison and I wonder if there is a way to look it up?
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:48:37 AM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:
As awful as the kidnappers are and should be brought to justice, there is a market for this. There apparently are a lot of "buyers." They also need to be brought to justice. And according to the article, it could be anyone from any walk of life.
View Quote
It’s puzzling how these people develop this sexual orientation, or any orientation for that matter.  My understanding is being sexually abused as a child may lead to it.  But in most cases, it seems people are born with an attraction to pre-pubescent children.

Then there are the Jeffrey Dahmers.  How does that happen?
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:50:08 AM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
If pedophilia gets normalized, what will the FBI use to smear people they're about to murder?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely fucking sick.

I'd be fine with govt kill teams given the sole purpose and intent of making these people disappear.
Govt kill teams that have the ability to disappear anyone that is a child sex predator. Great idea. Right up to the point that you find yourself getting set up as a child sex predator, and being disappeared. That sure would be a handy tool, just disappear anyone who is a child sex predator. Im sure there wouldn't suddenly be a rash of govt identified child sex predators being disappeared. Nevermind the fact that once you open that door, it's just one administration away from "outlaw terrorist gun owners hording terrorist assault weapons" who will be targeted for disappearance by Govt kill teams. All for the greater good of course. No one wants pedos or terrorist gun owners threatening the public at large. It is of course for the children. If it just saves one.......... Be careful what you wish for, you may actually get it.
If pedophilia gets normalized, what will the FBI use to smear people they're about to murder?
By that point, heterosexuality will be declared abnormal.  They’ll catch men looking at pictures of women > 18 and it will be a criminal offense.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:50:19 AM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:
Those that do that to children should be tortured in the worst way imaginable.
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The Boats will have to do until we get matrix style VR Technology where they could be killing over and over again until their brains liquefy.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:52:34 AM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:

It’s puzzling how these people develop this sexual orientation, or any orientation for that matter.  My understanding is being sexually abused as a child may lead to it.  But in most cases, it seems people are born with an attraction to pre-pubescent children.

Then there are the Jeffrey Dahmers.  How does that happen?  
View Quote
born with it or just developed it early due to neglect, abuse, unhappy childhood?  I'd argue the later.  But I don't know.  I would say by the time they are an adult, they probably aren't going to change their attraction.  All they can do is change their behavior.

if the death penalty was common for raping pre-pubescient children, you would find pedophiles suddenly developing more discipline.

Post-pubescient is really a construct of the past 100 years in the west.  It certainly doesn't exist in more primative cultures.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:53:19 AM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:
That's a very, very expensive solution to assuage your fear of doing the right thing.

Would you house and feed a rabid dog for years?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
ANY adult who has sex with a child or promotes child sex slavery is pure evil period.  They need to be dealt with swiftly and end up in a maximum security prison for life with it being known they are a child rapist.
That's a very, very expensive solution to assuage your fear of doing the right thing.

Would you house and feed a rabid dog for years?
Cruel and unusual.  While we would like to kill them, it won’t fly with the Supreme Court.

Maybe an island somewhere where anyone is convicted of a sex crime involving children is banished to?  They can never leave and are housed in a kibbutz-style work camps, away from society for the rest of their lives.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:56:25 AM EDT
[#37]
This will become normalized.

Built your forts gentleman and keep a low profile.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 7:58:14 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
born with it or just developed it early due to neglect, abuse, unhappy childhood?  I'd argue the later.  But I don't know.  I would say by the time they are an adult, they probably aren't going to change their attraction.  All they can do is change their behavior.

if the death penalty was common for raping pre-pubescient children, you would find pedophiles suddenly developing more discipline.

Post-pubescient is really a construct of the past 100 years in the west.  It certainly doesn't exist in more primative cultures.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

It’s puzzling how these people develop this sexual orientation, or any orientation for that matter.  My understanding is being sexually abused as a child may lead to it.  But in most cases, it seems people are born with an attraction to pre-pubescent children.

Then there are the Jeffrey Dahmers.  How does that happen?  
born with it or just developed it early due to neglect, abuse, unhappy childhood?  I'd argue the later.  But I don't know.  I would say by the time they are an adult, they probably aren't going to change their attraction.  All they can do is change their behavior.

if the death penalty was common for raping pre-pubescient children, you would find pedophiles suddenly developing more discipline.

Post-pubescient is really a construct of the past 100 years in the west.  It certainly doesn't exist in more primative cultures.
When you hear a pedophile had “hundreds of victims”, it’s easy to see how the problem perpetuates itself even if only a small fraction become offenders themselves.

For most criminals you can at least explain their behavior as innate poor impulse control.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 8:01:02 AM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:
Govt kill teams that have the ability to disappear anyone that is a child sex predator. Great idea. Right up to the point that you find yourself getting set up as a child sex predator, and being disappeared. That sure would be a handy tool, just disappear anyone who is a child sex predator. Im sure there wouldn't suddenly be a rash of govt identified child sex predators being disappeared. Nevermind the fact that once you open that door, it's just one administration away from "outlaw terrorist gun owners hording terrorist assault weapons" who will be targeted for disappearance by Govt kill teams. All for the greater good of course. No one wants pedos or terrorist gun owners threatening the public at large. It is of course for the children. If it just saves one.......... Be careful what you wish for, you may actually get it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely fucking sick.

I'd be fine with govt kill teams given the sole purpose and intent of making these people disappear.
Govt kill teams that have the ability to disappear anyone that is a child sex predator. Great idea. Right up to the point that you find yourself getting set up as a child sex predator, and being disappeared. That sure would be a handy tool, just disappear anyone who is a child sex predator. Im sure there wouldn't suddenly be a rash of govt identified child sex predators being disappeared. Nevermind the fact that once you open that door, it's just one administration away from "outlaw terrorist gun owners hording terrorist assault weapons" who will be targeted for disappearance by Govt kill teams. All for the greater good of course. No one wants pedos or terrorist gun owners threatening the public at large. It is of course for the children. If it just saves one.......... Be careful what you wish for, you may actually get it.
This guy gets it.  No matter the topic, resist the urge for a government solution until you've really thought it through.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 8:49:59 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Children, young girls - some as young as 9 years old - are being bought and sold for sex in America. The average age for a young woman being sold for sex is now 13 years old.

This is America’s dirty little secret...

After Abortion Is There A Greater Abomination Than Child Sexual Abuse
View Quote
46 years old and I have never been propositioned to have sex with a minor..

Is this something primarily happening in the hood? Probably.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 8:51:27 AM EDT
[#41]
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She was a former judge i think. She caught an arfcommer who was in fact a traitor.
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RebelGray.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 8:54:56 AM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:
The money trail leads back to the DNC.
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This...
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 9:00:03 AM EDT
[#43]
We badly need a purge.....Each one of these fucks need to the CoC treatment
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 9:16:04 AM EDT
[#44]
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Quoted:

Rang your fucking bell damn quick

I never mentioned any one here.

Duck quacks.
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Link Posted: 4/29/2019 9:16:14 AM EDT
[#45]
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Quoted:

My position with supporting evidence
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"evidence"
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 9:19:02 AM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:

yeah.

and Epstein's island is a fictional place.
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Now logically and rationally tie that into the rest of the bullshit conspiracy.

Epstein's a shitbag, no question.  He's been convicted for it.  I'm quite sure he's done shitbag things on his island too.

Like any good conspiracy, there are ties to some reality mixed in with a lot of complete batshit nonsense.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 9:22:05 AM EDT
[#47]
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Quoted:

46 years old and I have never been propositioned to have sex with a minor..

Is this something primarily happening in the hood? Probably.
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Yes. It is. The slave trade is still alive and well in America, but the buyer are no longer cotton farmers.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 9:52:39 AM EDT
[#48]
Article says children are found on MySpace. That hasn't been a thing in 10 years. Invalidates the whole thing for me.
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 9:55:38 AM EDT
[#49]
You do realize that stories like this are conjecture, right?  Seriously, how did this reporter gather this info?  Just go ask everyone, and everyone told the truth?  No one has asked me.   And there was the same study in the past so we know that is has gotten bigger?
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 9:57:54 AM EDT
[#50]
I didn't realize how epidemic it is
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