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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:29:25 PM EDT
 It's hard to imagine being on the receiving end of that amount of fire. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:31:09 PM EDT
[#1]
dupe
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:31:09 PM EDT
[#2]
Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won.
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:31:48 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm pretty sure anyone with real training and a rifle could stop these guys quickly and effectively.
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:32:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. And yet the gun store that supplied the cops got the royal fuck over later.  |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:32:32 PM EDT
[#5]
And fast forward a few years and every cop in the US needs an AR. 4073 |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:32:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: I'm pretty sure anyone with real training and a rifle could stop these guys quickly and effectively. It still amazes me no one tried a head shot. It seems like standard SOP is chest area but when it's pretty obvious they have body armor?  |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:33:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. And yet the gun store that supplied the cops got the royal fuck over later.
This is a Cop bashing thread? Clever disguise. You fooled me. I'll see my way out. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:34:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. And yet the gun store that supplied the cops got the royal fuck over later. This is a Cop bashing thread? Clever disguise. You fooled me. I'll see my way out. No it isn't. From my understanding it wasn't the police that did it was California's leadership that did? Or am I wrong? |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:34:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Quoted: Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. And yet the gun store that supplied the cops got the royal fuck over later. What happened with that? |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:36:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Quoted: I'm pretty sure anyone with real training and a rifle could stop these guys quickly and effectively. It still amazes me no one tried a head shot. It seems like standard SOP is chest area but when it's pretty obvious they have body armor? They probably "tried", but really, how many cops trained with anything close to IDPA standards in the 90s? |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:37:51 PM EDT
[#11]
That was the shootout from the movie Heat, right?
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:38:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. And yet the gun store that supplied the cops got the royal fuck over later.
What happened with that? Backstory? |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:44:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
That was the shootout from the movie Heat, right? what guns did they use? |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:45:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/NOHO+SHOOTOUT+GUN+SHOP+GOES+BANKRUPT.-a083012785Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. And yet the gun store that supplied the cops got the royal fuck over later. What happened with that? Backstory? |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:47:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: That was the shootout from the movie Heat, right? It was inspired by the movie HEAT. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:49:56 PM EDT
[#16]
A. It's very difficult to score a head shot on a moving target with your 9mm pistol when it is firing back at you with a full automatic assault rifle.
B. The gun store didn't go out of business because of individual officers, but I agree that the constant push by the CA CLEOs like the LA Chief of Police for tighter gun restrictions certain contributed to it going into chapter 11 and closing. C. I do actually feel that had such a thing taken place in Texas things would have been VERY different. The police were so sloppy in how they handled that incident it's truely amazing more people weren't harmed and more property wasn't damaged. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:53:25 PM EDT
[#17]
The family of the shooter sued the LAPD.
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:54:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/NOHO+SHOOTOUT+GUN+SHOP+GOES+BANKRUPT.-a083012785Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. And yet the gun store that supplied the cops got the royal fuck over later. What happened with that? Backstory? That's a little misleading to blame it on the shootout. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:55:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
The family of the shooter sued the LAPD. For claiming that they let him bleed out, but later dropped the suit. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 4:59:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/NOHO+SHOOTOUT+GUN+SHOP+GOES+BANKRUPT.-a083012785Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. And yet the gun store that supplied the cops got the royal fuck over later. What happened with that? Backstory? That's a little misleading to blame it on the shootout. Yes and no. It's been one of the things anti gun nuts used afterwords as part of the argument. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 5:03:46 PM EDT
[#21]
I'm going to leave this thread without making any comment, leaving you to speculate, second guess and play internet forum cop. Those of you who criticize have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. If you were there then you'd have an entirely different perspective on the situation.
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Posted: 9/10/2011 5:06:11 PM EDT
[#22]
At least the shooters didn't go full tard on a passel of civilians. America might have really seen change earlier.
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Posted: 9/10/2011 5:08:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. And yet the gun store that supplied the cops got the royal fuck over later. This is a Cop bashing thread? Clever disguise. You fooled me. I'll see my way out. No it isn't. From my understanding it wasn't the police that did it was California's leadership that did? Or am I wrong? With very strong support from the LEO unions and organizations. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 5:15:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
I'm pretty sure anyone with real training and a rifle could stop these guys quickly and effectively. Anyone from this website could have stopped it. !!!!! |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 5:26:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm pretty sure anyone with real training and a rifle could stop these guys quickly and effectively. It still amazes me no one tried a head shot. It seems like standard SOP is chest area but when it's pretty obvious they have body armor?
They never aimed for the head? Or maybe none of them have the ability to shoot a 100+yd. headshot under stress. On a side note, the head is smaller than the pelvic girdle or legs. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 5:32:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm pretty sure anyone with real training and a rifle could stop these guys quickly and effectively. It still amazes me no one tried a head shot. It seems like standard SOP is chest area but when it's pretty obvious they have body armor?
They never aimed for the head? Or maybe none of them have the ability to shoot a 100+yd. headshot under stress. On a side note, the head is smaller than the pelvic girdle or legs. yea, that would be an almost impossible shot. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 7:14:40 PM EDT
[#27]
I was in B+B Guns some years before the shootout while working in the LA area, so when I read that LAPD had got a couple of rifles from them I could picture the cops in the store. I still have a S+W M64 .38 police trade-in that I bought there. As an FFL I had done some business with their wholesale dept.; Bumblebee Wholesale. Back in the day it was a very busy store. One had to take a number and wait in turn for a salesperson.
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Posted: 9/10/2011 7:20:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: I'm going to leave this thread without making any comment, leaving you to speculate, second guess and play internet forum cop. Those of you who criticize have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. If you were there then you'd have an entirely different perspective on the situation.  |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 7:21:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Yeah you do have a point. I don't admire those assholes but I gotta admit they knew what they were doing........At least up until the stovepipe jam. Quoted: Quoted: I'm pretty sure anyone with real training and a rifle could stop these guys quickly and effectively. It still amazes me no one tried a head shot. It seems like standard SOP is chest area but when it's pretty obvious they have body armor? They never aimed for the head? Or maybe none of them have the ability to shoot a 100+yd. headshot under stress. On a side note, the head is smaller than the pelvic girdle or legs. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 7:26:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Out of curiosity, how many hits were scored on the body armor vs. shots fired on the bad guys?
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Posted: 9/10/2011 7:26:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm pretty sure anyone with real training and a rifle could stop these guys quickly and effectively. Anyone from this website could have stopped it. !!!!! This! Because as we've all witnessed a large portion of this site are SAS, SF, SOF, CIA, NASA door gunner qualified. My resume sucks compared to most here 
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Posted: 9/10/2011 7:29:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
The family of the shooter sued the LAPD. As they should have. The cops let the second guy lie in the street and bleed to death with an ambulance feet away ready to go. Yeah, the guy was a POS but the cops don't gets to decide who get medical treatment and who doesn't. If the perp would have been black those cops would have done jail time and the law suit would have been worth millions after the city was burnt to the ground of course. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 7:31:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
I'm pretty sure anyone with real training and a rifle could stop these guys quickly and effectively. Yeah pretty much. These guys fired something like 1400 rounds IIRC and killed nobody. Imagine for a second if these guys were actually taking careful aim and coordinating movement, they could have decimated a large chunk of LAPD assets in the area with little trouble. Patrol rifles pretty well insure this will not happen again. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 7:32:49 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: I'm going to leave this thread without making any comment, leaving you to speculate, second guess and play internet forum cop. Those of you who criticize have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. If you were there then you'd have an entirely different perspective on the situation. U mad?? |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 7:34:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Out of curiosity, how many hits were scored on the body armor vs. shots fired on the bad guys? Wiki said both got hit at least 10 times in their armor and Matasareanu was hit a total of 29 times. Interesting note: They took phenobarbital so that they wouldn't freak out during the robberies. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 7:34:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The family of the shooter sued the LAPD. For claiming that they let him bleed out, but later dropped the suit. The suit could've had legs, LAPD said they had reports of another shooter so they did not let in medics. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 7:39:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The family of the shooter sued the LAPD. For claiming that they let him bleed out, but later dropped the suit. The suit could've had legs, LAPD said they had reports of another shooter so they did not let in medics. I remember seeing a pic of a cop standing feet away from this handcuffed guy with an ambulance in the back ground yards away. They stood there and watched the guy bleed to death. The guy was a POS but if they will do it to him they will do it to you. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 7:45:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The family of the shooter sued the LAPD. For claiming that they let him bleed out, but later dropped the suit. The suit could've had legs, LAPD said they had reports of another shooter so they did not let in medics. I remember seeing a pic of a cop standing feet away from this handcuffed guy with an ambulance in the back ground yards away. They stood there and watched the guy bleed to death. The guy was a POS but if they will do it to him they will do it to you. You have to treat the shitbag too, lest you become them. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 8:05:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. Wait, what? Didn't one of the shooters kill himself because he was out of ammo for his long gun? Cops got the other guy so 1 out of 2 is 50% which by school standards is a failing grade. The cops did not "win". They were lucky those two guys did not have training on using their weapons as fighting tools. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 8:06:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. Wait, what? Didn't one of the shooters kill himself because he was out of ammo for his long gun? Cops got the other guy so 1 out of 2 is 50% which by school standards is a failing grade. The cops did not "win". They were lucky those two guys did not have training on using their weapons as fighting tools. He dropped his gun because he didn't know how to fix a stovepipe. His hand got hit and I guess he didn't feel like swiping the shell off. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 8:10:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. Wait, what? Didn't one of the shooters kill himself because he was out of ammo for his long gun? Cops got the other guy so 1 out of 2 is 50% which by school standards is a failing grade. The cops did not "win". They were lucky those two guys did not have training on using their weapons as fighting tools. He dropped his gun because he didn't know how to fix a stovepipe. His hand got hit and I guess he didn't feel like swiping the shell off. Thought the rifle stovepiped and then he tapped himself in the head with his Beretta? |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 8:10:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. And yet the gun store that supplied the cops got the royal fuck over later.
-and is anyone surprised? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b23AjeRBXSU&feature=relmfu |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 8:12:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. Wait, what? Didn't one of the shooters kill himself because he was out of ammo for his long gun? Cops got the other guy so 1 out of 2 is 50% which by school standards is a failing grade. The cops did not "win". They were lucky those two guys did not have training on using their weapons as fighting tools. He dropped his gun because he didn't know how to fix a stovepipe. His hand got hit and I guess he didn't feel like swiping the shell off. Thought the rifle stovepiped and then he tapped himself in the head with his Beretta? Yup, stove piped and he dropped it. Got his Inox out, fired a few rounds and got shot in the hand. He dropped it, picked it back up and shot himself. An officer shot him at the top of his spine at about the same time he killed himself. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 8:12:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. Wait, what? Didn't one of the shooters kill himself because he was out of ammo for his long gun? Cops got the other guy so 1 out of 2 is 50% which by school standards is a failing grade. The cops did not "win". They were lucky those two guys did not have training on using their weapons as fighting tools. He dropped his gun because he didn't know how to fix a stovepipe. His hand got hit and I guess he didn't feel like swiping the shell off. Thought the rifle stovepiped and then he tapped himself in the head with his Beretta? Yes, his rifle jammed and he couldn't clear it. Though he tried. So he dumped it and kept walking down the street, firing his Beretta at the Officers. He was hit in the hand, dropped his gun, picked it back up and then shot himself at the same time as another Officer shot him. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 8:33:39 PM EDT
[#45]
Rumor was that they has already stolen over a million dollars in cash that was never recovered.
Don't know hat happened to the wives. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 8:41:14 PM EDT
[#46]
The human head is a difficult target. It's all wobbly and just sort of bounces around especially when the person is walking. Anything beyond 10 yards it's going to be a tough hit and chances are you're not going to get within 10 yards of two guys with automatic weapons with your 9mm pistol.
I've never seen a range target that actually simulated the way the human head moves very well. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 8:52:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/NOHO+SHOOTOUT+GUN+SHOP+GOES+BANKRUPT.-a083012785Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Undergunned, poorly led and disorganized, the Cops still stood their ground, and won. And yet the gun store that supplied the cops got the royal fuck over later. What happened with that? Backstory? They filed for bankruptcy because of the owners... I think this is the primary cause of the business failure. The legal restrictions could have been overcome IMO. "In 1993, relations between its founders, brothers Bob and Barry Kahn, soured. This led to litigation between the two over control of the company in 1994, eventually leading to a settlement in 1997 that left the business in the hands of Bob Kahn and his wife, Kathleen. It also racked up $1.75 million in legal and accounting fees, the first cited cause of the bankruptcy. According to the filing, at this time, Barry Kahn engaged in illegal activities that would have endangered B&B's licenses and which later got him locked up in federal prison. The filing further alleges that he bought substantial inventory against Bob Kahn's wishes, which then had to be liquidated at a loss for $425,000. Bad investments followed, and all the while the company found itself with increasing legal headaches" |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 8:54:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Under certain circumstances they do. Quoted: The family of the shooter sued the LAPD. As they should have. The cops let the second guy lie in the street and bleed to death with an ambulance feet away ready to go. Yeah, the guy was a POS but the cops don't gets to decide who get medical treatment and who doesn't. If the perp would have been black those cops would have done jail time and the law suit would have been worth millions after the city was burnt to the ground of course. |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 8:55:17 PM EDT
[#49]
What's amazing is these guys were caught way before, spent 6 months in jail, got out and petitioned the court and got there weapons back.
My question is did the police just go into the gun store and request the weapons and it was that simple? LE or not shouldn't it be same procedure as a civilian? |
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Posted: 9/10/2011 8:59:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: What's amazing is these guys were caught way before, spent 6 months in jail, got out and petitioned the court and got there weapons back. My question is did the police just go into the gun store and request the weapons and it was that simple? LE or not shouldn't it be same procedure as a civilian? I'm sure the owners of the store exercised common sense considering the shooting that was going on. LE are civilians. |
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