I'm learning.

But your post implicitly recognizes that it wasn’t the Sherman in and of itself that made a difference, it was the attrition being suffered by the Germans.

I suppose that you could credit the Sherman design to some extent because we were able to manufacture so many. But if the designs were traded, would we have fielded more panzers, tigers etc. than Germany had been able to and been able to keep supply lines open so as to keep them rolling while Germany would have struggled fielding Shermans in the numbers we did and not bee able to keep them as well maintained and supplied as we did?

That’s my belief. Our manufacturing capacity is what won the war, not the superiority of product that we put out there.

You could have said absolutely nothing at all on at least two occasions in the last three pages, to include warning us against disparaging M_M when nobody had done so that I could see (was that an 'emergency' that you referred to earlier?  Lol...), and telling a poster defending his academic credentials to contact a moderator if he felt like he was being attacked just because he answered another posters question), and this thread would have been no worse off for it.

This is the last post I'll make on the subject tonight.

And I reject your rejection.  How well did maneuver warfare work for the United States, who helicoptered, marched, and tanked all over South Vietnam and Eastern Cambodia.  Who prevailed?

Or the other golden child of the maneuverists - Israel.  How did the IDF do in Lebanon?

To quote you, "throughout history", manueverists will claim that whatever worked was maneuver warfare.

Never mind that unpleasantness the Germans had in Russia.  How is it that the inventors of blitzkrieg, in the vastness of Russia, where unable to find an "indirect approach", but rather got their asses kicked?

I refer you to the words of Daniel P. Bolger in his article "Maneuver Warfare Reconsidered", as collected and published in Maneuver Warfare, edited by Richard D. Hooker, Jr.:

"Maneuver warfare is bunk.  No competent soldier, much less the entire U. S. military establishment, should embrace it.  Subjected to serious scrutiny, maneuver warfare's theoretical assumptions turn out to be laughably flimsy.  Not surprisingly, so are the battlefield prescriptions that flow form such flawed premises."

Maneuver warfare is an ingredient in the soup - not the whole stew.  Much like the OODA Loop concept from which it sprang.

Many, MANY more Sherman crews outlived their shot-up tank, than German crews.  That has much to do with decreasing levels of crew competence for the Germans.

If you are dead, you are no longer crewing a tank or training green replacements.

This, and American Lend-Lease shipments of food, armored vehicles, railway equipment, gasoline, gunpowder, and aircraft, were essential to the Russian offensive.

Quantity has a quality of its own.

That is exactly why we won. Rommel stated in his diaries that the amount of material thrown at him is why he lost in North Africa. The sheer amount of shells, tanks and bombs dropped on him was overwhelming and he did not have the fuel, ammo or tanks to fight back.

We built around 50,000 Shermans in WW2, The Germans built around 24,000 tanks of varying models. We just overwhelmed them, plain and simple.

Did anybody read the article about the battle of Arracourt?

I'll give you the cliff notes:

While a standard panzer division had four battalions of infantry, the panzer brigade had half that number. The panzer brigades also lacked an artillery regiment. Hence, they had to rely on corps assets for indirect fire support. Even worse, each brigade had only one reconnaissance troop with just two platoons, while a panzer division typically had an entire squadron of reconnaissance vehicles with five scout troops. Bereft of reconnaissance units, the panzer brigades would likely be bumbling around the battlefield blind. This lack of resources would come back to haunt them.  They also were deficient in headquarters staff.
The most glaring issue facing the Germans was the lack of trained soldiers and leaders. Most of the noncommissioned officers were from replacement and training units, while the majority of the junior officers were infantry officers. According to Stumpff, these junior officers “had no idea of the commitment of motorized formations.” Even worse, the panzer brigades “were organized just at their points of assembly immediately behind the front line, and had, therefore, never been able to hold combined exercises and give the commanders experience.”

Conclusion: "The chief reason for the German defeat was their lack of reconnaissance, which prevented them from discovering the American battle positions before it was too late. As a consequence, the panzer companies rolled through the French countryside like blind men. Though the American tankers were outgunned in their Sherman tanks, they knew the ground and were far better trained. The result was a tactical American victory."

If you put infantry officers in the Panther, you make the Sherman the best tank of the war!

Ok I know some of you have heard me tell this information.. but hear goes anyway.
Was the M4 better?  hear it both way by those whom were in them during and after WWII
Dad loader mechanic went in at end of war was in Germany no battles but still had many stories to tell such as track blown off and sliding down a big hill in to a german apple orchard.  He said they could swap out a engine in a few hours in the Sherman.  Sorry I got pictures but cant get them to post of him and his brothers. dad in the 8th
Dad still living .. 93 in nursing home will see his in morning.

my uncle dads brother tank driver 749th landed D-day +1 Utah beach by end of war had 3 tanks destroyed he was in and he and the gunner made it out of all of them wounded but made it and was in bigger gun Sherman in one of the units farthest in Germany at end of the war.  the 749 under Patton lost 222 men wounded and 73 killed and a lot more slightly wounded. Uncle Jess receipient of Purple heart.  the 749th and Uncle Jess traveled over 2000 milesby the end of the war.  Uncle Jess was in the tank group under patton the night they ran out of gas and it all went to hand to hand by that morning, its where he was wounded.  he was out of action only 2 weeks and back to the tank.  His tank was the first to run out of gas. (he signed release for his name used in the Patton movie) Bailey's tanks out of gas.

in an interview by a local college about 20 yrs ago Quote " we use to try to work in groups of 3 tanks against a tiger or panther shoot and scoot trying for one tank to maneuver behing and get a shot from behind. It was a dangous business said Jess". He erned 5 battle stars for action in Normandy, Northern France, the Ardennes, Rhineland and central Europe.  was one of the tanks that was moved from fighting a battle to join Pattons unit that move in to the battle of the buldge and bastone.  Little did he  know but my other uncle (dads brother) was infantry in that battle he helped save. found out monthes later.

after the war he came home to southern Indiana and worked as a dozer and dragline operator in the coal mines.. He died 2014.

Spent the day with dad and uncle and son n law several years ago at the Patton tank museum was very interesting letting them show us the tanks and hear them and other old tankers tell there stories...wish I could have recored that.

Dad living 93 tanker WWII at end of war and occupation after the war
father n law living 96 master sargent infantry Italy and France
Dads brother passed 749th tanker WWII Normandy through Germany
Dads brother passed infantry WWII france and Germany
Dads brother passed infantry WWII Italy and France
Unclle (moms side) passed infantry WWII north Afracia and Italy
My wifes 3 uncles passed WWII infantry and 1 south pacific

They all made it home after the war. so many did not.

Sorry to ramble but proud of my family and of all that have and are serving. THANK YOU.

I only regret not recording there stories I listened to for so long. I still have the ammo belt Uncle wore in Africa.  Not only are the big battle stories you hear but the little battles that history doesn't remember and how they lived there daily lives for 2 years some good stories of kindness and the horrors of war seeing there best friends getting killed and wounded.  One thing uncle said he never forgot even if he wanted to was the smell of battle and the noise and seeing what there actions could do to folks.

IF you get the chance listen to those who served and are serving because they will fade fast.
Thank You.