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Posted: 10/9/2016 6:30:40 AM EDT
[#1]
We could do with some whiskey
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Posted: 10/9/2016 6:32:27 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, down to the safe to grab my FAL and watch this movie! Don't blow a hole in your picture tube |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 8:51:07 AM EDT
[#3]
Watched it last night, and thought it was alright. Being an American of direct Irish descent, I had some love for the lads. But fuck the UN.
I then came back to this thread, and read Bigstick's history lesson. Very interesting. I do not have a fraction of his knowledge on the subject, and read it with fresh eyes. Makes me hate the UN even more. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 8:59:00 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Watched it last night, and thought it was alright. Being an American of direct Irish descent, I had some love for the lads. But fuck the UN. I then came back to this thread, and read Bigstick's history lesson. Very interesting. I do not have a fraction of his knowledge on the subject, and read it with fresh eyes. Makes me hate the UN even more. Katanga: The Untold Story of UN Betrayal |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 9:07:57 AM EDT
[#5]
This thread deserves a solid read later.
Lots of information about stuff I had no idea about |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 9:19:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Looks good, but I've no love for UriNation.
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Posted: 10/9/2016 9:29:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Definitely going to catch it
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Posted: 10/9/2016 9:34:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're racist. Please board the train for re-education. I'm torn about the movie given I love a good war movie but the historical skew is off. I got a sobering education from our newest bible study family from South Africa, it's hell with European walled cites. What they dealt with was scary. Compounds, armed security, transport, bodyguards for the kids going to the schools. We have no point of reference. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Best thing to happen to Africa was colonization. Worst to to happen to Africa was de-colonzation. I'm torn about the movie given I love a good war movie but the historical skew is off. I got a sobering education from our newest bible study family from South Africa, it's hell with European walled cites. What they dealt with was scary. Compounds, armed security, transport, bodyguards for the kids going to the schools. We have no point of reference. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 9:40:46 AM EDT
[#9]
What type of BAR is this? Colt monitor? Heavy Barrel different "piston cap" different sights
 This might be a bren gun or other cz gun? |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 9:41:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They were the UN, essentially. If you serve evil you are complicit in it; they still put up a good fight, but it was important that they lose the battle. It helped put Katanga in a better position for a time. It helped give the UN a good shock. Unfortunately, the UN would end up doubling down. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just finished watching it.....Excellent. Vintage mil-surps galore. 
Fuck the UN....Root for the lads that were hung out to dry. 
They were the UN, essentially. If you serve evil you are complicit in it; they still put up a good fight, but it was important that they lose the battle. It helped put Katanga in a better position for a time. It helped give the UN a good shock. Unfortunately, the UN would end up doubling down. No shit Slick.....I pay for my Netflix so I'll root for the side I damn well please....Peddle your blame papers elsewhere. 
As a aside the movie is pretty accurate as to the primary FFL merc's equipment. He was carrying both a cut-down M1917 bayonet for a fighting knife as well as Gray Ghost P-38, both of which the FFL were using at the time. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 9:53:34 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Best thing to happen to Africa was colonization. Worst to to happen to Africa was de-colonzation. Indeed. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 9:53:48 AM EDT
[#12]
I used to work at the John Birch Society's bookstore, and must have watched their documentary on the UN intervention in Katanga a dozen times.
They've used it as an example of UN evilness for decades. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 9:57:48 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just finished watching it.....Excellent. Vintage mil-surps galore.
Fuck the UN....Root for the lads that were hung out to dry.
That is the point. They were hung out by the UN. The UN is evil even to their own. 
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Posted: 10/9/2016 10:01:06 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who do we root for? I am rooting for the Irish. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 10:12:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am rooting for the Irish. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who do we root for? I am rooting for the Irish. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 10:44:05 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What type of BAR is this? Colt monitor? Heavy Barrel different "piston cap" different sights http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/bigstick61/LON125031-1.jpg This might be a bren gun or other cz gun? FN Model DA1. Improved BAR with a quick change barrel and other features that would also appear on the MAG, chambered for 7.62X51 and using FAL mags. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 10:50:29 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 10/9/2016 11:21:17 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryPaco has such a sweet collection. Everything but the para FAL in the bottom pic was used by Katanga. The Belgians that jumped into Stanleyville during the 2nd Congo Crisis used the M3 Para FAL shown, a special variant made for Belgium. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 11:31:38 AM EDT
[#19]
So when black guys are the bad guys it is really white guys behind them making them be the bad guys.
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Posted: 10/9/2016 11:36:05 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So when black guys are the bad guys it is really white guys behind them making them be the bad guys. The Black Guys fighting the Irish were good guys. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 11:38:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One thing bothering me, was the UH-1 even in service in 1961? We adopted it in 59 or 60 but how would the UN have them in 61, with the Irish, in Africa? Quote HistoryQuoted: One thing bothering me, was the UH-1 even in service in 1961? We adopted it in 59 or 60 but how would the UN have them in 61, with the Irish, in Africa? ETA: I see our resident Irish tanker chimed in and answered the question. No Hueys. Quoted: The real helicopter was a Chickasaw/Whirlwind |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 11:52:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except the Black Guys weren't bad. The Irish guys were. Only the Black Communists were the puppets of bad White Guys just lime the Irish were. The Black Guys fighting the Irish were good guys. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So when black guys are the bad guys it is really white guys behind them making them be the bad guys. The Black Guys fighting the Irish were good guys. Hmm , I was thinking about something that happened a few years later. It looks like there were no good guys in this one. Although this company really had no choice in the bad decision to send them there. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:08:30 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm 10 minutes in. Forman is giving a speech to the company.
I can only see the mag floor plate in the holster. Hi Power? |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:09:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Wife made me stop it until we can watch it together.
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:14:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Threads like these are one of the saving graces of putting up with GD.
Lots of good info here, many thanks to the contributors. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:16:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
arfcom is not gonna rot for the UN.. is it ? BUT IT HAS PEEPLE SHOOTIN AND EXPLOSHAWNS!! |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:24:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except the Black Guys weren't bad. The Irish guys were. Only the Black Communists were the puppets of bad White Guys just lime the Irish were. The Black Guys fighting the Irish were good guys. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So when black guys are the bad guys it is really white guys behind them making them be the bad guys. The Black Guys fighting the Irish were good guys. Picking the good guys is pretty hard. IMO Katanga had every right to succeed (but then I also root for the South in TWNA and Rhodesia.) Recognize that the world is not black and white. The guys that the Mercs ended up fighting, the Simbas, were much worse, classically bad raping and killing animists backed directly by the USSR. But its hard to view the Irish as bad guys, just soldiers doing the bidding of their country (who were doing the bidding of the UN) that were left hanging out to dry. I view the people the sent them there as bad guys. In a movie about Custer's last stand who do you root for? I never knew this story, and I consider my knowledge of the post colonial wars as pretty extensive. How many Americans could tell you about Angola, Namibia, Rhodesia, Mozambique, Biafra and Katanga? Hell, how many could even point to them on a map? I guess my particular interests began immediately after the UN pulled out. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:29:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Picking the good guys is pretty hard. IMO Katanga had every right to succeed (but then I also root for the South in TWNA and Rhodesia.) Recognize that the world is not black and white. The guys that the Mercs ended up fighting, the Simbas, were much worse, classically bad raping and killing animists backed directly by the USSR. But its hard to view the Irish as bad guys, just soldiers doing the bidding of their country (who were doing the bidding of the UN) that were left hanging out to dry. I view the people the sent them there as bad guys. In a movie about Custer's last stand who do you root for? I never knew this story, and I consider my knowledge of the post colonial wars as pretty extensive. How many Americans could tell you about Angola, Namibia, Rhodesia, Mozambique, Biafra and Katanga? Hell, how many could even point to them on a map? I guess my particular interests began immediately after the UN pulled out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So when black guys are the bad guys it is really white guys behind them making them be the bad guys. The Black Guys fighting the Irish were good guys. Picking the good guys is pretty hard. IMO Katanga had every right to succeed (but then I also root for the South in TWNA and Rhodesia.) Recognize that the world is not black and white. The guys that the Mercs ended up fighting, the Simbas, were much worse, classically bad raping and killing animists backed directly by the USSR. But its hard to view the Irish as bad guys, just soldiers doing the bidding of their country (who were doing the bidding of the UN) that were left hanging out to dry. I view the people the sent them there as bad guys. In a movie about Custer's last stand who do you root for? I never knew this story, and I consider my knowledge of the post colonial wars as pretty extensive. How many Americans could tell you about Angola, Namibia, Rhodesia, Mozambique, Biafra and Katanga? Hell, how many could even point to them on a map? I guess my particular interests began immediately after the UN pulled out. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:31:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Fuck the UN.
Will you all watch the movie of their gallant fight to disarm American citizens on our own soil too? |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:44:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Picking the good guys is pretty hard. IMO Katanga had every right to succeed (but then I also root for the South in TWNA and Rhodesia.) Recognize that the world is not black and white. The guys that the Mercs ended up fighting, the Simbas, were much worse, classically bad raping and killing animists backed directly by the USSR. But its hard to view the Irish as bad guys, just soldiers doing the bidding of their country (who were doing the bidding of the UN) that were left hanging out to dry. I view the people the sent them there as bad guys. In a movie about Custer's last stand who do you root for? I never knew this story, and I consider my knowledge of the post colonial wars as pretty extensive. How many Americans could tell you about Angola, Namibia, Rhodesia, Mozambique, Biafra and Katanga? Hell, how many could even point to them on a map? I guess my particular interests began immediately after the UN pulled out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So when black guys are the bad guys it is really white guys behind them making them be the bad guys. The Black Guys fighting the Irish were good guys. Picking the good guys is pretty hard. IMO Katanga had every right to succeed (but then I also root for the South in TWNA and Rhodesia.) Recognize that the world is not black and white. The guys that the Mercs ended up fighting, the Simbas, were much worse, classically bad raping and killing animists backed directly by the USSR. But its hard to view the Irish as bad guys, just soldiers doing the bidding of their country (who were doing the bidding of the UN) that were left hanging out to dry. I view the people the sent them there as bad guys. In a movie about Custer's last stand who do you root for? I never knew this story, and I consider my knowledge of the post colonial wars as pretty extensive. How many Americans could tell you about Angola, Namibia, Rhodesia, Mozambique, Biafra and Katanga? Hell, how many could even point to them on a map? I guess my particular interests began immediately after the UN pulled out. I agree with Rhodesian reasons and even South Africa and South West Africa. The majority of blacks were going to ruin the economic and social stability in those locations. At the height of Apartheid, blacks from across Africa swarmed into the RSA. Hell, Haitians, Jamaican, Zimbabweans, and South Africans all agree that they had better lives under white rule. Katanga was a similar case. They knew they without the whites, they would.collapse since the whites were the ones running the place. Belgium originally planned to slowly transition and educate the Congo to become self sufficient. They estimated it wouldn't be until the 1980s that they would be able to stand on their own. And guess what..... they were right. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:48:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I view the CSA in an odd light. I support their want for secession and that it was primarily economically driven. I don't support slavery. But I do believe that if the CSA did achieve independence, slavery would have eventually went the way of the dodo bird. Brazil didn't outlaw it until the late 1880s and the same with Cuba. I agree with Rhodesian reasons and even South Africa and South West Africa. The majority of blacks were going to ruin the economic and social stability in those locations. At the height of Apartheid, blacks from across Africa swarmed into the RSA. Hell, Haitians, Jamaican, Zimbabweans, and South Africans all agree that they had better lives under white rule. Katanga was a similar case. They knew they without the whites, they would.collapse since the whites were the ones running the place. Belgium originally planned to slowly transition and educate the Congo to become self sufficient. They estimated it wouldn't be until the 1980s that they would be able to stand on their own. And guess what..... they were right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So when black guys are the bad guys it is really white guys behind them making them be the bad guys. The Black Guys fighting the Irish were good guys. Picking the good guys is pretty hard. IMO Katanga had every right to succeed (but then I also root for the South in TWNA and Rhodesia.) Recognize that the world is not black and white. The guys that the Mercs ended up fighting, the Simbas, were much worse, classically bad raping and killing animists backed directly by the USSR. But its hard to view the Irish as bad guys, just soldiers doing the bidding of their country (who were doing the bidding of the UN) that were left hanging out to dry. I view the people the sent them there as bad guys. In a movie about Custer's last stand who do you root for? I never knew this story, and I consider my knowledge of the post colonial wars as pretty extensive. How many Americans could tell you about Angola, Namibia, Rhodesia, Mozambique, Biafra and Katanga? Hell, how many could even point to them on a map? I guess my particular interests began immediately after the UN pulled out. I agree with Rhodesian reasons and even South Africa and South West Africa. The majority of blacks were going to ruin the economic and social stability in those locations. At the height of Apartheid, blacks from across Africa swarmed into the RSA. Hell, Haitians, Jamaican, Zimbabweans, and South Africans all agree that they had better lives under white rule. Katanga was a similar case. They knew they without the whites, they would.collapse since the whites were the ones running the place. Belgium originally planned to slowly transition and educate the Congo to become self sufficient. They estimated it wouldn't be until the 1980s that they would be able to stand on their own. And guess what..... they were right. This is why I love ARFCOM, there are darn few people I could have this conversation with. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:53:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is why I love ARFCOM, there are darn few people I could have this conversation with. Culture is the issue.... not skin color. It just so happens that thise that have fucked up cultures are dark skinned for the most part. But plenty of white folk have fucked up culture too. Look at the failure that is Greece right now. Look at Russia and other places. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:53:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think I'll ever get over Macho Grande Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looks like those guys had it easy compared to the Battle of Macho Grande. I don't think I'll ever get over Macho Grande Maybe that will finally send the demons away. And earn me an Oscar  Ed |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:55:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I could never dare have this conversation in public with co-workers. Culture is the issue.... not skin color. It just so happens that thise that have fucked up cultures are dark skinned for the most part. But plenty of white folk have fucked up culture too. Look at the failure that is Greece right now. Look at Russia and other places. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is why I love ARFCOM, there are darn few people I could have this conversation with. Culture is the issue.... not skin color. It just so happens that thise that have fucked up cultures are dark skinned for the most part. But plenty of white folk have fucked up culture too. Look at the failure that is Greece right now. Look at Russia and other places. I mentioned Barbados in another thread. It was weird in that skin color just didn't matter. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 3:36:06 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. I mentioned Barbados in another thread. It was weird in that skin color just didn't matter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is why I love ARFCOM, there are darn few people I could have this conversation with. Culture is the issue.... not skin color. It just so happens that thise that have fucked up cultures are dark skinned for the most part. But plenty of white folk have fucked up culture too. Look at the failure that is Greece right now. Look at Russia and other places. I mentioned Barbados in another thread. It was weird in that skin color just didn't matter. Never had a problem with skin colour |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 3:54:51 PM EDT
[#36]
As a movie, it was pretty good.
I think they showed the UN in a pretty negative light. They also tried to put the whole thing on the backs of the mining company's. It was a decent movie made by Hollywood types with typical Hollywood bias. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 3:58:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Threads like these are one of the saving graces of putting up with GD. Lots of good info here, many thanks to the contributors.  |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 4:00:26 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 10/9/2016 4:51:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a movie, it was pretty good. I think they showed the UN in a pretty negative light. They also tried to put the whole thing on the backs of the mining company's. It was a decent movie made by Hollywood types with typical Hollywood bias. I don't know that Hollywood made this... seemed to have a bunch of help from the Irish Defense forces Fuck, if Hollywood had done this on the budget they were obviously running everyone would have been armed with AKs and G26s left over from some other movie. I have no idea, just curious. It seems if the Irish Army had been very heavily involved they would have taught them to salute and gotten rid of the dude's 5 o'clock shadow. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 5:23:59 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never had a problem with skin colour Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is why I love ARFCOM, there are darn few people I could have this conversation with. Culture is the issue.... not skin color. It just so happens that thise that have fucked up cultures are dark skinned for the most part. But plenty of white folk have fucked up culture too. Look at the failure that is Greece right now. Look at Russia and other places. I mentioned Barbados in another thread. It was weird in that skin color just didn't matter. Never had a problem with skin colour |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 5:24:58 PM EDT
[#41]
just started
good so far. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 6:05:24 PM EDT
[#42]
Long watched but seems worth it
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Posted: 10/9/2016 6:16:42 PM EDT
[#43]
I don't have Netflix. So, I was forced and luckily I found it elsewhere for FREE.
Good flick. I sent my friends a link. Good viewing for a lazy Sunday afternoon. Aloha, Mark |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 6:42:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Anyway to see it without netflix?
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Posted: 10/9/2016 6:45:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyway to see it without netflix? If you're near an iPic cinema, I believe they are showing it. But they only have 15 locations in the whole country. My nearest is 500 miles away, in Los Angeles. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 6:51:27 PM EDT
[#46]
Haven't finished it yet. It's good so far.
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Posted: 10/9/2016 7:19:31 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really think that's the problem with the Irish. They're mean as hell, but they're always losing. Why? Too stubborn. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Who do we root for? The Irish? Never root for the Irish. Yeah it irritates us, just leave us alone to die of our stubborn ways.  I really think that's the problem with the Irish. They're mean as hell, but they're always losing. Why? Too stubborn. " The Gaels are the men That God made mad All their wars are happy All their songs are sad" GK Chesterton |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 8:39:29 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The real helicopter was a Chickasaw/Whirlwind, with a Swedish and Norwegian pilot and co-pilot, it was forced down and stayed down, but was not shot hp as per the movie. I guess it was easier to find a UH1. They, together with a Swedish officer permanently assigned to A Coy as an interpreter, were detained for the month with the Irish. The water was not poisoned by the Irish, it was brought in by the helicopter in containers which had previously been used for fuel and not properly cleaned. It also brought the wrong size mortar ammo. (81mm, instead of the 60 the Irish actually had). Quinlan was basically told to leave the heavy equipment such as the 81s behind. A photo of him after capture clearly shows the brassard to be a lighter color than the uniform. (My own brassards faded, as I was only issued the one set). The Fouga was certainly used at Jadotville, interviewed later, the pilot said that the fire was so brisk that he had to stay at higher altitude. The idea that Dag Hammerskjold was shot down has been gaining more traction in recent years. Some unofficial investigations about five years ago hit the news in the UK. Irish documentary indicates the use of C124 and C130 to transport troops to/from Baldonnel. (322nd Air Division, from the video footage recorded by the Irish Air Corps cameraman) I looked it up and you're right about the water. I remembered that someone had screwed up and contaminated it, but it was someone from the UN and not the Katangese. In the movie they say, "They poisoned the water," implying that the Katangese did it. As for the Fouga, I know that they attacked Irish troops, but I looked over the works I have on the subject and they don't specify the troops at Jadotville per se, although there are references to attacking Irish troops elsewhere. They are, however, general works on Morthor or Katanga, and not specifically on Jadotville, so I accept the omission. I do have stuff that indicates that indeed there was no damage to any Katangese aircraft during Morthor. Even if it wasn't used, it would be relatively minor compared to the much more serious inaccuracies (and it does make for good action). Which book has the pilot's interview? Major Joseph Delin, yes (or was it with the South African Fouga pilot)? I try to gather as many decent sources as I can on the subject; most are necessarily in French or Dutch, unfortunately, although I do what I can to translate. As for Hammarskjold, the evidence did not point to hostile action. There was no damage to the plane consistent with it being shot down. No other aircraft were spotted on radar. The aircraft behaved consistently with one having trouble landing. Tshombe also had no real motive to kill Hammarskjold; if anyone could have resolved things peacefully in a manner acceptable to Tshombe and the Katangese it was Hammarskjold. Also, IIRC (and I'd have to go back through sources to be sure), the Katangese aircraft and pilots all had alibis. Hammarskjold's death was very convenient, though, for those in the UN intent on crushing Katangese independence. The Left, naturally, had a vested interest in promoting the narrative that he was murdered by the Katangese and even after the results of the Rhodesian investigation continued to maintain that that is what happened (and typically still do). |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 8:40:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just watched the movie and it really reinforced that I really wish I could get a Swedish K.  The used the "peacekeeping" version which is neat in that it has a bayonet lug. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 8:45:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm , I was thinking about something that happened a few years later. It looks like there were no good guys in this one. Although this company really had no choice in the bad decision to send them there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So when black guys are the bad guys it is really white guys behind them making them be the bad guys. The Black Guys fighting the Irish were good guys. Hmm , I was thinking about something that happened a few years later. It looks like there were no good guys in this one. Although this company really had no choice in the bad decision to send them there. I suppose "bad guys" is not the best term. More of a reference to an early poster referring to "good" and "bad" guys, on my part. There is no questioning that the soldiers of this unit fought honourably for their country, which sent them there. They had their orders. It was their country and the organization it was serving that was doing bad, so by extension their mission was a bad thing, but they certainly acquitted themselves very well during the battle. They were fortunate that the majority of the attacking force was irregular/non-military. While I have no doubt they would have fought heroically otherwise, I'm not sure they would have fared as well if they were facing a force that size entirely composed of regulars, properly armed and equipped. |
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