User Panel
Anger will continue to build until there is some precipitating event that causes it to be released.
I wonder what that event will be. The Zimmerman verdict perhaps? |
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Being 66, I remember the 1960's really well. The hippies and draft-dodger types were bad, and made me sad for us. Today, the attacks on our individual freedoms has me much more concerned. The country is more divided today than ever, and that is what people like Obama want; they see political advantage in making us more divided. Just look at the way Obama and the Democrat govern, there is absolutely no consideration of what might be best for the country, all their efforts are toward achieving more power for them. At 66 here also, this man is spot on. Tough times are here now (abet the glorious news presented on MSM) and (in my opinion) are due to get much worse. |
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The tactics have changed, but all this is doing is ensuring that whatever violence does occur will be bad.
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When I read my copy of the lefty classic "Steal this Book" by Abbie Hoffman and read about The weather underground and Black panther party I get the impression that violence was more common in the 1960s and hence we are not that far down the road today. "The Great Society" started with FDR right? |
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I'm in my early 30's so obviously I have no first hand experience with the civil unrest during the 1960s. Seems like there were more people in the street in the 60s. Hmmm. |
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If the republicans would drop abortion and the dems would drop gun control, it would be a start. (although I think most of the Bush hate from the left was regarding the wars, obama hasn't changed anything and he gets a pass on that also) The Dems would have to drop more than gun control. Cutting govt. spending would have to be in there too. You're close to thinking Libertarian... |
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I'm in my early 30's so obviously I have no first hand experience with the civil unrest during the 1960s. Seems like there were more people in the street in the 60s. Hmmm. |
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Entitlements and welfare are societal poisons, the illusion that as a society we are helping people and everyone benefits is a lie. People that get onto these programs have a hard time getting off them. Compounding the trouble is that people start feeling 'entitled.' Much like a little kid at a store that wants something, if his parents say no the kid throws a tantrum. There is a huge population of our society that feels rage and wants to blame people for it, naturally the Democrats direct their rage towards the productive members of society. Telling these people that the "rich" can afford to pay more but keep fighting doing their fair share. Instead of teaching people to fish, welfare and the like gives people just enough fish to survive but not enjoy similar lifestyles to those that know how to fish. The welfare class doesn't identify that they could have more through hard work and less reliance on the system, instead they project their anger and we are seeing that in votes. We see it when they riot. The only good thing is riots, not that there is anything good about them unless you want a societal collapse (which I don't), have been largely contained to one geographic area. If our bread lines (food stamps) keep getting bigger and longer (which they are), jobs don't increase and Democrats keep promoting all the various forms of class/race/gender/etc division the outlook isn't good. What we call SHTF, everyone pissed at everyone and once the invisible force that keeps violence at bay is broken it'll be rather ugly. It's like they say in prisons, the inmates can take the prison at any time. Granted those that work there can get the prison back under control through force, but what if the prison is the entire country. The outlook won't be nearly as good and we will all suffer and people that weren't angry before will be when their family, friends, and/or neighbors come under attack.
I'm reminded of a story from the LA Riots (Rodney King) where a bunch of actors said "why are they coming for us, we donate money to help them." What the Democrats fail to realize is if this huge chunk of the population that is pinned down by social programs rises up they won't care much if the "rich" are Republican or Democrat. They are pissed and are going to take every thing they can. I seriously think the Democrats think this will be some grand communist style uprising where they will be hailed as heroes. Nothing will be good or pretty about it, it'll suck for everyone...everyone. People will stop going to work to be able to protect their families, just like after Hurricane Sandy even electrical companies will be targets. The electrical workers were trying to get powered restored yet they were being attacked for there being no power. Once this anger bubbles to the surface zero logic applies. I have kept this condensed, it's entirely possible and some may argue probable. I hope not, I wish that everyone had it in them to earn their own way in life and take pride in what they were able to bring to the table. Unfortunately, in my 40 years on this planet I have instead seen us go from being proud of hard work and our country to the opposite. Not for all, but for more than enough to create a situation where Rome may burn while our dear leader plays a fiddle. Troubling times and I hope I'm wrong. I hope this will never happen and isn't possible, my guts tells me if our economy goes down the drain again soon that'll be the trigger that fires it all off as most countries around the world are in trouble themselves and there will be no one to keep it all afloat. Some days I'm hopeful other days I feel as if we are hanging on by a thread. |
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Much more so. The "Great Society" is a failure the scale of which is unmatched in history. When I read my copy of the lefty classic "Steal this Book" by Abbie Hoffman and read about The weather underground and Black panther party I get the impression that violence was more common in the 1960s and hence we are not that far down the road today. "The Great Society" started with FDR right? Violence was much less common. Murder was a big deal back then. No such thing as drive-bys. Graffiti/scrawl didn't cover everything. No metal detectors at schools. No TSA BS. No checkpoints. Very few "no-go" neighborhoods. Sure, there was crime, always has been. The number and violence of society's animals has skyrocketed. Violence was different. The organized attacks on government included the weathermen and SDS, with incidents like the Chicago riots and bombing attempts at the 1968 Democrat Convention, the townhouse bomb in New York that was intended to kill hundreds of students at Columbia University, and the actions of Sam Melville, who detonated eight bombs in New York City. Add the bank robbers and cop killers to this: Joanne Chesimard and her little bank robber pals in the Black Liberation Army killed numerous cops in planned attacks: Harold Hamilton, Gregory Foster, Rocco Laurie, Joseph Piagentini, Waverly Jones, John Victor Young, and James R. Greene. These are the ones we know about. The BLA made the Black Panthers look like amateurs. Although the Panthers had such luminaries as Eldridge Cleaver, Huey Newton, and H. Rap Brown, they quickly figured out that it was more fun to scam white guilt payoffs than to actually get in gun fights with the police. They also coordinated their actions with the weathermen, as did Melville. The occupy wall street crowd has nothing on these guys. The 99% is a bunch of lazy and spoiled brats. The radicals from the 1960s were interested in killing people and robbing banks. |
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There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear. There's a man with a gun over there. Telling me I got to beware. |
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EVERYBODY STOP!............................. Hey, what's that sound? Everyone look what's going around |
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The dirty little secret of this country is that we've never been at peace with ourselves. There is no such thing as the "Land of the Free." There is only "the place where I am, and I'm lucky nobody is screwing with me too much." So says the "Free State" Marylander guy. Quoted:
Born in 1955 and I agree with your friend. The country is much more divided now than it was then. Much. When I was young and liberal, I thought of all of us as Americans, despite the deep differences of opinion I had with conservatives. I don't think or feel that way now. Same here age wise, even the most "liberal" folks I knew were twice as Conservative than the libtard weenies around now and they still had some pride in their country, warts and all. |
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<snip> And then dropped like a stone. After the drug spike in the 80s and 90s, we're now right back to 1970s levels of crime - and that's COUNTING the inner cities. You take away black-on-black violence, and we're arguably the most peaceful our society has ever been since before the Civil War. If the Left keeps pushing, I'm afraid they're going to crack. The Right is being impressively peaceful about this whole business, but the Left just keeps on making more senator-shooters and cop-killers (I'm not using their names; fuck those people. You know what I'm talking about.). That sort of thing starts happening at large? Maybe the victim targets move more to the grassroots political level? People attacking their neighbors? These people are going to see some shit they are in no way prepared for. The skyrocketing incarceration rate (due in part to the failure that is the WOD) reflects the increase in violence. That's the rate, not the totals. They cannot all be attributed to the WOD. In total numbers, it is staggering: (going back further) That the rates of crime are decreasing does not translate to places being safer, or less divided. A DOJ report with some interesting charts and stats to contemplate: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf Many of the violent criminals today are far younger than 50 years ago. As a consequence, many are in and out of the juvie system multiple times. For violent crimes up to and including murder. We rarely saw the sort of pack animal attacks that are now unremarkable. We did not have flash mobs looting stores. We did not have shootings in theatres (of course, back then, the last show of the evening was at 10PM, drive-ins were for making out, not acting up) I also suspect that the mob did a pretty decent job of keeping their own ranks clean from free-lancers and guys who went off the reservation and did forbidden things. Illegals were nowhere near the problem then. Now they are neither tried nor incarcerated for the most part, catch & release. Stats don't capture the things the government (particularly the DOJ) does poorly. (corollary: when was the last time you saw any company annual report admit "we are doing a really crappy job in a market that we are not prepared to handle"? Lastly, the cities were alive and vibrant shopping and entertainment centers. Now many are vacant once the workday ends. The suburbs are pushed further out as good and awful school systems were merged by court decree. The net effect is the division is nowhere more clear than in the exurbs that appeared as a direct consequence of the decay and degeneration of the cities and suburbs. Even cities like NYC clear out (yes, there are still more pockets of night life there than most other cities, but you get the idea) more in a bit... |
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Stop children what's that sound? It's fucking Communism you stupid fuck!!!
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Stop children what's that sound? It's fucking Communism you stupid fuck!!![ I think you mean socialism |
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<snip> And then dropped like a stone. After the drug spike in the 80s and 90s, we're now right back to 1970s levels of crime - and that's COUNTING the inner cities. You take away black-on-black violence, and we're arguably the most peaceful our society has ever been since before the Civil War. If the Left keeps pushing, I'm afraid they're going to crack. The Right is being impressively peaceful about this whole business, but the Left just keeps on making more senator-shooters and cop-killers (I'm not using their names; fuck those people. You know what I'm talking about.). That sort of thing starts happening at large? Maybe the victim targets move more to the grassroots political level? People attacking their neighbors? These people are going to see some shit they are in no way prepared for. The skyrocketing incarceration rate (due in part to the failure that is the WOD) reflects the increase in violence. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/U.S._incarceration_rates_1925_onwards.png/800px-U.S._incarceration_rates_1925_onwards.png That's the rate, not the totals. They cannot all be attributed to the WOD. In total numbers, it is staggering: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Correctional_Populations_in_the_United_States_1980-2008.png/800px-Correctional_Populations_in_the_United_States_1980-2008.png (going back further) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg/693px-US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg.png That the rates of crime are decreasing does not translate to places being safer, or less divided. A DOJ report with some interesting charts and stats to contemplate: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf Many of the violent criminals today are far younger than 50 years ago. As a consequence, many are in and out of the juvie system multiple times. For violent crimes up to and including murder. We rarely saw the sort of pack animal attacks that are now unremarkable. We did not have flash mobs looting stores. We did not have shootings in theatres (of course, back then, the last show of the evening was at 10PM, drive-ins were for making out, not acting up) I also suspect that the mob did a pretty decent job of keeping their own ranks clean from free-lancers and guys who went off the reservation and did forbidden things. Illegals were nowhere near the problem then. Now they are neither tried nor incarcerated for the most part, catch & release. Stats don't capture the things the government (particularly the DOJ) does poorly. (corollary: when was the last time you saw any company annual report admit "we are doing a really crappy job in a market that we are not prepared to handle"? Lastly, the cities were alive and vibrant shopping and entertainment centers. Now many are vacant once the workday ends. The suburbs are pushed further out as good and awful school systems were merged by court decree. The net effect is the division is nowhere more clear than in the exurbs that appeared as a direct consequence of the decay and degeneration of the cities and suburbs. Even cities like NYC clear out (yes, there are still more pockets of night life there than most other cities, but you get the idea) http://colt-rane.com/wp-content/uploads/8gfwg.jpg more in a bit... I wonder how much that reflects plea bargains to avoid trumped up charges. |
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We just need to kill all those law breaking, baby killing, proud of their lack of morals, butt-fucking racist REPUBLICANS!! They're screwing it up for everyone.
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The manipulation of statistics is (eternal ) but evident in some of the stuff posted as truth:
Chicago is getting safer, right? Well, maybe in some areas, maybe a lot worse in others. That is division. Now let's look at other data from CPD and others http://fotocapsule.com/podcast/generator/themes/chicago-crime-rate-map <<< still think mass transit is a great idea? Linking Criminal Activity to Transit And those rate charts: The real common one is the 1990 to present chart showing decline, things are getting safer, right? Link for last btw, there were 532 murders in Chiacgo in 2012 Link3 Now let's look at the longer term, talk about cherry-picking data to show things are getting better! http://chicagocrimescenes.blogspot.com/2009/07/138-years-of-murder-in-chicago.html Why the hiccup in the curve? Increased incarceration and murderers killing other murderers (gang wars) |
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There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear. There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody's wrong What a field-day for the heat. A thousand people in the street. |
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Umm, the hippies of the 60's are in positions of influence now. Media, education, politics, fortune 100 executives, etc.
They don't have to be out on the streets anymore. They influence and make policy. Their useful idiot goon squad does the dirty work. This is completely different from the 60s. |
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I would go as far as to say this country is divided like never before, including the run up to the War of Northern Aggression. The Foamies have uncapped their game and are running balls out to destroy America. They were patient for the longest time, but it seems they now have buck fever and can't stop the full retard. Maybe it's due to the push back by those with Common Sense, but the Foamies just can't stop from peeling back their skull and looking into the abyss. The run-up to the Civil War had fist fights on the floor of the House and representatives carrying their guns during debates. We are not even close to that. And "Bloody Kansas" |
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When your white, 40 something, 45k-75k gross a year man comes home and his kids say "Daddy I'm hungry" is when you will see real change and people in the streets.
Till then it's meaningless banter.... |
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"The country is more divided now then in the 1960s"
The 1860"s. |
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More divided? ABSOLUTELY.
More volatile? No so sure, so much apathy (which is what the politicians count on) it really is a case of, "Suppose they threw a revolution, and nobody showed up?" |
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We saw more political violence and rioting in the 1960's, but I believe that the divide on how our population thinks about our country is probably wider than ever.
By that I mean, what they believe the responsibility the role of government is in our everyday lives and the demands of the productive to pay for everyone else. |
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No one is burning draft cards or bras, throwing molotov cocktails, burning Watts or Detroit, or holding real marches and demonstrations with clubs, rocks, tear gas, chains, or MRAPS. So, we have a way to go. But we're getting very close. Between the impending emergency manager (or a real Chapter 9 municipal bankruptcy), and the already increasing drumbeats of racially based resistance, it could be a long, hot summer in Detroit. Yesterday, the Detroit News published an interesting article about JoAnn Watson, the city council member who has been the most vocal about racial home rule, and included some quotes from others warning that her style of rhetoric could lead to violence. The black churches are already on board with the hate speech, and the unions won't take what's coming lying down. |
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Being 66, I remember the 1960's really well. The hippies and draft-dodger types were bad, and made me sad for us. Today, the attacks on our individual freedoms has me much more concerned. The country is more divided today than ever, and that is what people like Obama want; they see political advantage in making us more divided. Just look at the way Obama and the Democrat govern, there is absolutely no consideration of what might be best for the country, all their efforts are toward achieving more power for them. At 66 here also, this man is spot on. Tough times are here now (abet the glorious news presented on MSM) and (in my opinion) are due to get much worse. Agreed, and what's happening now is just a continuation of what they were doing in the 1960s. Hell, it's even many of the same people. They didn't manage to overthrow the system from the outside then, so now they're doing it from the inside. The objectives haven't changed, only the methods. |
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I think I've said this before... a hell of a lot more people own guns today than owned slaves in 1860.
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When your white, 40 something, 45k-75k gross a year man comes home and his kids say "Daddy I'm hungry" is when you will see real change and people in the streets. Till then it's meaningless banter.... An industrialized, modern nation that can't feed people? I don't see that in our life time. Nothing wrong with food insurance but OMG I need goats in my backyard for SHTF. |
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Until I see them taking to the streets in angry droves like Europe I say no. And I don't consider the union thuggery shenanigans we've seen lately to be anything close to a proper example. I think what we are witnessing more than anything is the Greater Internet Dickwad Theory in effect than some kind of political brouhaha. Just imagine if we had the internet in the 60s... it would have been a billion times worse. I am not familiar with this theory. Please explain. It was a Penny Arcade comic a few years back. Normal person + Anonymity = Insufferable Douchecanoe You forgot Audience. Normal person + Anonymity + Audience = Absolute Fuckwad. |
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Entitlements and welfare are societal poisons, the illusion that as a society we are helping people and everyone benefits is a lie. People that get onto these programs have a hard time getting off them. Compounding the trouble is that people start feeling 'entitled.' Much like a little kid at a store that wants something, if his parents say no the kid throws a tantrum. There is a huge population of our society that feels rage and wants to blame people for it, naturally the Democrats direct their rage towards the productive members of society. Telling these people that the "rich" can afford to pay more but keep fighting doing their fair share. Instead of teaching people to fish, welfare and the like gives people just enough fish to survive but not enjoy similar lifestyles to those that know how to fish. The welfare class doesn't identify that they could have more through hard work and less reliance on the system, instead they project their anger and we are seeing that in votes. We see it when they riot. The only good thing is riots, not that there is anything good about them unless you want a societal collapse (which I don't), have been largely contained to one geographic area. If our bread lines (food stamps) keep getting bigger and longer (which they are), jobs don't increase and Democrats keep promoting all the various forms of class/race/gender/etc division the outlook isn't good. What we call SHTF, everyone pissed at everyone and once the invisible force that keeps violence at bay is broken it'll be rather ugly. It's like they say in prisons, the inmates can take the prison at any time. Granted those that work there can get the prison back under control through force, but what if the prison is the entire country. The outlook won't be nearly as good and we will all suffer and people that weren't angry before will be when their family, friends, and/or neighbors come under attack. I'm reminded of a story from the LA Riots (Rodney King) where a bunch of actors said "why are they coming for us, we donate money to help them." What the Democrats fail to realize is if this huge chunk of the population that is pinned down by social programs rises up they won't care much if the "rich" are Republican or Democrat. They are pissed and are going to take every thing they can. I seriously think the Democrats think this will be some grand communist style uprising where they will be hailed as heroes. Nothing will be good or pretty about it, it'll suck for everyone...everyone. People will stop going to work to be able to protect their families, just like after Hurricane Sandy even electrical companies will be targets. The electrical workers were trying to get powered restored yet they were being attacked for there being no power. Once this anger bubbles to the surface zero logic applies. I have kept this condensed, it's entirely possible and some may argue probable. I hope not, I wish that everyone had it in them to earn their own way in life and take pride in what they were able to bring to the table. Unfortunately, in my 40 years on this planet I have instead seen us go from being proud of hard work and our country to the opposite. Not for all, but for more than enough to create a situation where Rome may burn while our dear leader plays a fiddle. Troubling times and I hope I'm wrong. I hope this will never happen and isn't possible, my guts tells me if our economy goes down the drain again soon that'll be the trigger that fires it all off as most countries around the world are in trouble themselves and there will be no one to keep it all afloat. Some days I'm hopeful other days I feel as if we are hanging on by a thread. Best damn post I've read on this website in a *LONG* time. Thank you for that. |
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In the 60's I didn't believe that killing domestic enemies was really an option.
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I agree that the country is more divided now. Possibly even more divided than before the Civil War. I have a few thoughts on why we haven't seen any violence yet.
1. It seems to me that all the violent conflicts that arose in the 60s were between protesters and local police/national guard. Today the conflict would more likely be with FBI/ATF/DHS agents in ninja suits, carrying fully auto SMGs, arriving on the scene with tanks and helicopters and drones. I feel like local police and local members of the national guard would put some effort in to resolve things peacefully, but not the feds. 2. Ruby Ridge and Waco set an example that if we so much as owe a $200 tax on a firearm that the ATF/FBI is going to blow our spouse's head off while nursing our newborn baby, or just burn our entire family to death inside our home. Now I'm scared to death to stand up against the feds because they might kill my family. I doubt the protesters in the 60s worried about that. 3. The people that are upset today aren't dirty homeless hippies, they are successful members of society with families and jobs they can't just walk away from to go on some protest. I've been thinking a lot about that 3rd point. It seems to me that the people that exercise the 2nd Amendment, that are "well regulated" members of the militia, are mostly going to be upstanding members of society with families and careers. These people are going to protest much more peacefully than the Black Panthers. We have our peaceful 2nd Amendment rallies, and the news gives us 10 seconds of coverage if at all, and we go back home to our families. I don't think any of us are going to do anything that the media, and nation, will notice until we have nothing left to lose. So then my question is, at what point do we have nothing left to lose? |
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Quoted: Folks that say it's more divided now just need to do research. in 1967 (iirc ) 6 cities were burning at one time in the US. Every damn one of them was a bigger disturbance than the LA riots. Austin and Dallas rioted for four days and had about 20 dead. Austin was a town of about 75K back then. The news media pushed it all as much as they could, just like they do today. Yep. Those who think it's worse today than in the 1960s are suffering from information overload: 24 hour news, talk radio, Internet, etc. Having said that, I do think we are more divided than ever since, say, the 1980s. But the '60s? No way. |
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Ol Scruff was born in 54. I remember the 60s, and the riots. The malice between whites and blacks.
A lot of things really did need to change. But they did not change well. We don`t have the peace and harmony talked about back then. We have Takers and Makers, and the government has an interest in separating the two, and keeping each pissed at the other. Makers earn what they have and try to keep all they can to support their own group or family. They have earned it, they want to use it. Takers have been told so many times they were oppressed and held back, they have institutional anger at whoever has what they want. They feel it is their right to take, if not by law, then by force. I`m a Maker, i have worked since I was 15 or so, even tho I looked at the world with liberal eyes early on. I want what I have earned, nothing more. I resent someone else laying claim to the result of my work. I do not know how these two groups can reconcile this. But I do know that our government is enjoying the differences between these groups, and are using it against us all. The media is onboard. They are bought and paid for. And in my opinion, that malice I talked about is worse than ever. Interesting times...... |
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