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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:09:39 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:10:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’d sooner have a light or light laser as being more useful. A proper large front sight with tritium and either fiber optic or luminescent paint, combined with good practice. Is just as fast assuming you even bother with the sights in a CCW defense scenario. One issue with a CCW red dot is how are y’all dealing with ever changing brightness as you go about your day. If you leave it bright enough to see in daylight it’ll be too bright at dusk. You guys really regularly adjusting your brightness ? The same way I deal with changing ambient light conditions when carrying a rifle with an RDS. This isn't that difficult. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:10:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of flabbergasted folks clutching their pearls while gnashing their teeth at folks that don't want red dots on their personally owned guns. What gives? It's a stupid argument worrying about some other gun owners likes and dislikes. I mean, unless you're footing the bill for the red dot along with paying for modifications and or mounts to go with, then there should be no reason to fight people over such pettiness. Plus I don't think that I have seen one person against dots on their guns say anything bad or trying to stop folks from dong , while the other side has been vicious and antagonizing those that they want to convert or be burned at the stakes. What's wrong with letting things be and live and let live? Sheesh. ETA: I bought recently a DPP and FCD Glock mount. Don't eat me  If people don’t like them or don’t want to spend the money on them, that’s fine. Parroting nonsensical myth which is easily disproven as the reason they don’t want one warrants discussion, on the other hand. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:13:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol I carried everyday in a gas plant facility with strict no weapons allowed policy with tucked in FRs. Nice try though... Get a real gun and real holster.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol I gOt dReSseD uP oNcE aNd cArrIeD mY g19 ThE wHoLe tImE... Lol I carried everyday in a gas plant facility with strict no weapons allowed policy with tucked in FRs. Nice try though... Get a real gun and real holster. Wait a minute... First, you said you once carried a g19 with a rmr while wearing a 3 piece suit to a wedding. Now, you're saying you carried daily while wearing a tucked in shirt at a facility with a strict no weapons policy. Correct? Did you carry the g19 with rmr while wearing a tucked in shirt daily at the place with a strict policy? If so, that seems like it would be much more relevant than the one-time wedding example while wearing a 3 piece suit. If you didn't carry the g19 with the rmr and a tucked in shirt daily, what did you carry? Was it a different "real" gun and "real" holster? Sorry, but your stories are beginning to smell a lot like bullshit to me. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:26:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of flabbergasted folks clutching their pearls while gnashing their teeth at folks that don't want red dots on their personally owned guns. What gives? It's a stupid argument worrying about some other gun owners likes and dislikes. I mean, unless you're footing the bill for the red dot along with paying for modifications and or mounts to go with, then there should be no reason to fight people over such pettiness. Plus I don't think that I have seen one person against dots on their guns say anything bad or trying to stop folks from dong , while the other side has been vicious and antagonizing those that they want to convert or be burned at the stakes. What's wrong with letting things be and live and let live? Sheesh. ETA: I bought recently a DPP and FCD Glock mount. Don't eat me This is a discussion forum. Incorrect BS posted by clueless people may give someone who is uninformed the wrong impression about the topic, leading them down the wrong path. Do whatever you want, but expect to be called out on your derp if you decide to post it. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:29:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait a minute... First, you said you once carried a g19 with a rmr while wearing a 3 piece suit to a wedding. Now, you're saying you carried daily while wearing a tucked in shirt at a facility with a strict no weapons policy. Correct? Did you carry the g19 with rmr while wearing a tucked in shirt daily at the place with a strict policy? If so, that seems like it would be much more relevant than the one-time wedding example while wearing a 3 piece suit. If you didn't carry the g19 with the rmr and a tucked in shirt daily, what did you carry? Was it a different "real" gun and "real" holster? Sorry, but your stories are beginning to smell a lot like bullshit to me. Unless the gas plant was also a wedding venue, I think these are separate examples. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:29:15 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait a minute... First, you said you once carried a g19 with a rmr while wearing a 3 piece suit to a wedding. Now, you're saying you carried daily while wearing a tucked in shirt at a facility with a strict no weapons policy. Correct? Did you carry the g19 with rmr while wearing a tucked in shirt daily at the place with a strict policy? If so, that seems like it would be much more relevant than the one-time wedding example while wearing a 3 piece suit. If you didn't carry the g19 with the rmr and a tucked in shirt daily, what did you carry? Was it a different "real" gun and "real" holster? Sorry, but your stories are beginning to smell a lot like bullshit to me. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lol I gOt dReSseD uP oNcE aNd cArrIeD mY g19 ThE wHoLe tImE... Lol I carried everyday in a gas plant facility with strict no weapons allowed policy with tucked in FRs. Nice try though... Get a real gun and real holster. Wait a minute... First, you said you once carried a g19 with a rmr while wearing a 3 piece suit to a wedding. Now, you're saying you carried daily while wearing a tucked in shirt at a facility with a strict no weapons policy. Correct? Did you carry the g19 with rmr while wearing a tucked in shirt daily at the place with a strict policy? If so, that seems like it would be much more relevant than the one-time wedding example while wearing a 3 piece suit. If you didn't carry the g19 with the rmr and a tucked in shirt daily, what did you carry? Was it a different "real" gun and "real" holster? Sorry, but your stories are beginning to smell a lot like bullshit to me. That dude's original post made no declaration as to how frequently he carried that combination. Not sure where you're getting the whole "once" thing. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:29:39 AM EDT
[#8]
Double tap.
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:46:21 AM EDT
[#9]
People who have 'em seem to really like 'em. It definitely expands the toolbox.
I'll pass though. I've spent the last 20+ years being taught and teaching others that most gunfights are within instinctive shooting distances and training accordingly. An older but IMO still relevant blog on the subject: https://redbackone.com/blogs/news/pistol-mounted-rds-for-duty-service-use-is-this-the-future |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:47:31 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That dude's original post made no declaration as to how frequently he carried that combination. Not sure where you're getting the whole "once" thing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lol I gOt dReSseD uP oNcE aNd cArrIeD mY g19 ThE wHoLe tImE... Lol I carried everyday in a gas plant facility with strict no weapons allowed policy with tucked in FRs. Nice try though... Get a real gun and real holster. Wait a minute... First, you said you once carried a g19 with a rmr while wearing a 3 piece suit to a wedding. Now, you're saying you carried daily while wearing a tucked in shirt at a facility with a strict no weapons policy. Correct? Did you carry the g19 with rmr while wearing a tucked in shirt daily at the place with a strict policy? If so, that seems like it would be much more relevant than the one-time wedding example while wearing a 3 piece suit. If you didn't carry the g19 with the rmr and a tucked in shirt daily, what did you carry? Was it a different "real" gun and "real" holster? Sorry, but your stories are beginning to smell a lot like bullshit to me. That dude's original post made no declaration as to how frequently he carried that combination. Not sure where you're getting the whole "once" thing. Top of page 3. That's what happens when people hit "quote single" instead of "quote all." The context of the conversation is often lost. He said he carried a g19 with rmr and "extendo" while wearing a 3 piece suit in a wedding. He also gave me shit for pocket carrying, and told me to get a real gun and a real holster. I carry every day, and I carry what I can get away with, without losing my job. If that's not tacticool enough for some of these guys, I really don't give a shit.  |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:48:22 AM EDT
[#11]
You guys really believe that anyone new and reading this, will get any wrong impressions? I've read the for and against arguments. I still want to try and see for myself. I even plan on getting a course for it. I don't see how anyone with a mind of their own will be stopped.
To be honest here, the added weight excuse is not even a good excuse as it's negligible. But the astigmatism, not being able to afford, don't want to spend the money and then lose to a legal good shoot or have the ammo to train for, are all valid. Maybe they don't want to buy another holster or a bunch of holsters? Each of those reasons I would respect and not think or post anything less of them. I dunno, but it seems you folks don't like people that show any dissent. I get the discussion part, but some of you want to suppress in a one way conversation without any willingness to meet in the middle and say fair enough. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:55:04 AM EDT
[#12]
No red dots on any of my handguns.
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:56:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Top of page 3. That's what happens when people hit "quote single" instead of "quote all." The context of the conversation is often lost. He said he carried a g19 with rmr and "extendo" while wearing a 3 piece suit in a wedding. He also gave me shit for pocket carrying, and told me to get a real gun and a real holster. I carry every day, and I carry what I can get away with, without losing my job. If that's not tacticool enough for some of these guys, I really don't give a shit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lol I gOt dReSseD uP oNcE aNd cArrIeD mY g19 ThE wHoLe tImE... Lol I carried everyday in a gas plant facility with strict no weapons allowed policy with tucked in FRs. Nice try though... Get a real gun and real holster. Wait a minute... First, you said you once carried a g19 with a rmr while wearing a 3 piece suit to a wedding. Now, you're saying you carried daily while wearing a tucked in shirt at a facility with a strict no weapons policy. Correct? Did you carry the g19 with rmr while wearing a tucked in shirt daily at the place with a strict policy? If so, that seems like it would be much more relevant than the one-time wedding example while wearing a 3 piece suit. If you didn't carry the g19 with the rmr and a tucked in shirt daily, what did you carry? Was it a different "real" gun and "real" holster? Sorry, but your stories are beginning to smell a lot like bullshit to me. That dude's original post made no declaration as to how frequently he carried that combination. Not sure where you're getting the whole "once" thing. Top of page 3. That's what happens when people hit "quote single" instead of "quote all." The context of the conversation is often lost. He said he carried a g19 with rmr and "extendo" while wearing a 3 piece suit in a wedding. He also gave me shit for pocket carrying, and told me to get a real gun and a real holster. I carry every day, and I carry what I can get away with, without losing my job. If that's not tacticool enough for some of these guys, I really don't give a shit. It also referenced a "tucked in shirt and dress pants" as well. He could have written the post more clearly, but it certainly reads as having happened more than just "once." |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 2:00:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys really believe that anyone new and reading this, will get any wrong impressions? I've read the for and against arguments. I still want to try and see for myself. I even plan on getting a course for it. I don't see how anyone with a mind of their own will be stopped. To be honest here, the added weight excuse is not even a good excuse as it's negligible. But the astigmatism, not being able to afford, don't want to spend the money and then lose to a legal good shoot or have the ammo to train for, are all valid. Maybe they don't want to buy another holster or a bunch of holsters? Each of those reasons I would respect and not think or post anything less of them. I dunno, but it seems you folks don't like people that show any dissent. I get the discussion part, but some of you want to suppress in a one way conversation without any willingness to meet in the middle and say fair enough. There have been plenty of posts making poor excuses for not wanting to use an RMR (like not using sights at all, which is an excuse used to cover up a lack of practice/proficiency). So yes, a new shooter reading something like that may get the wrong impression and come away with the thought that some ass backwards shit is normal. You're free to leave the thread if you don't like derp being called out for what it is. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 2:07:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Top of page 3. That's what happens when people hit "quote single" instead of "quote all." The context of the conversation is often lost. He said he carried a g19 with rmr and "extendo" while wearing a 3 piece suit in a wedding. He also gave me shit for pocket carrying, and told me to get a real gun and a real holster. I carry every day, and I carry what I can get away with, without losing my job. If that's not tacticool enough for some of these guys, I really don't give a shit. He’s right in every respect. Including pocket carry being horrible practice. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 2:08:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People who have 'em seem to really like 'em. It definitely expands the toolbox. I'll pass though. I've spent the last 20+ years being taught and teaching others that most gunfights are within instinctive shooting distances and training accordingly. An older but IMO still relevant blog on the subject: https://redbackone.com/blogs/news/pistol-mounted-rds-for-duty-service-use-is-this-the-future Where do you train people so that I can steer people away from this nonsensical BS? |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 2:14:49 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You sure seemed impressed by the hand-cranked generator powering the flashlight on my CCW Colt Walker, sport. 
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Posted: 2/8/2021 2:19:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It also referenced a "tucked in shirt and dress pants" as well. He could have written the post more clearly, but it certainly reads as having happened more than just "once." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lol I gOt dReSseD uP oNcE aNd cArrIeD mY g19 ThE wHoLe tImE... Lol I carried everyday in a gas plant facility with strict no weapons allowed policy with tucked in FRs. Nice try though... Get a real gun and real holster. Wait a minute... First, you said you once carried a g19 with a rmr while wearing a 3 piece suit to a wedding. Now, you're saying you carried daily while wearing a tucked in shirt at a facility with a strict no weapons policy. Correct? Did you carry the g19 with rmr while wearing a tucked in shirt daily at the place with a strict policy? If so, that seems like it would be much more relevant than the one-time wedding example while wearing a 3 piece suit. If you didn't carry the g19 with the rmr and a tucked in shirt daily, what did you carry? Was it a different "real" gun and "real" holster? Sorry, but your stories are beginning to smell a lot like bullshit to me. That dude's original post made no declaration as to how frequently he carried that combination. Not sure where you're getting the whole "once" thing. Top of page 3. That's what happens when people hit "quote single" instead of "quote all." The context of the conversation is often lost. He said he carried a g19 with rmr and "extendo" while wearing a 3 piece suit in a wedding. He also gave me shit for pocket carrying, and told me to get a real gun and a real holster. I carry every day, and I carry what I can get away with, without losing my job. If that's not tacticool enough for some of these guys, I really don't give a shit. It also referenced a "tucked in shirt and dress pants" as well. He could have written the post more clearly, but it certainly reads as having happened more than just "once." Snip: I have worn a Glock 19 with an rmr and an extendo wearing a tucked in shirt and dress pants, and a three piece suit in a wedding It reads as a one-time deal to me. He also made no mention of ever taking his jacket off at the wedding, while telling me I'm doing it wrong. There is no way I'm wearing a full fucking monkey suit all day everyday so I can carry a mid-size gun instead of a compact gun. I'd be sweating my balls off. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 2:21:07 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do you train people so that I can steer people away from this nonsensical BS? Pretty sure Redback One is Jason Falla. Seems like he's as good a trainer as any of the other former special forces guys running training gigs. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 2:30:12 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No red dots on any of my handguns. Han Solo was an early adopter of pistol-mounted optics. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 2:32:05 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He’s right in every respect. Including pocket carry being horrible practice. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Top of page 3. That's what happens when people hit "quote single" instead of "quote all." The context of the conversation is often lost. He said he carried a g19 with rmr and "extendo" while wearing a 3 piece suit in a wedding. He also gave me shit for pocket carrying, and told me to get a real gun and a real holster. I carry every day, and I carry what I can get away with, without losing my job. If that's not tacticool enough for some of these guys, I really don't give a shit. He’s right in every respect. Including pocket carry being horrible practice. Okay, John Wick. You convinced me.
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Posted: 2/8/2021 2:32:31 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Han Solo was an early adopter of pistol-mounted optics. I take it you have never seen Star Wars. Solo most of the time was a hip shooter like in the old westerns. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 6:18:29 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Battlewerkx will mill your slide for about 100 bucks including shipping. I got suppressor height sights from amazon for about 65 bucks. Black rear, and tritium front. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How? Battlewerkx will mill your slide for about 100 bucks including shipping. I got suppressor height sights from amazon for about 65 bucks. Black rear, and tritium front. They only do Glock according to their site, it isn’t a Glock. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 8:02:45 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't have one on my current CCW, only because I haven't upgraded it. The arguments against red dots on pistols are based on ignorance, stubbornness or incompetence. This is the same for me; I will get some of my CCW's upgraded soon. I've been slowly working them into my training pistols and while there is a minor learning curve, the differences are substantial. This is especially true when you start timing yourself, doing multiple target engagements and really stretch your engagement distances out. Once I get to 25 meters with multiple plates, the time difference is significant over iron sights. The only thing stopping me from getting them on a couple CCW's is just complacency. There is a slight investment in the optics and most have to get a new holster...it is what it is, but to deny the benefits of a red dot is simply ignorant. I'm not quite an old geezer, but I can understand why some are just reluctant to change and try something that's not really that new, but does change how they've done things in the past. I think someone mentioned it about red dots on duty/combat rifles 20+years ago. There are still many that just advocate using iron sights "because they won't get damaged or run have batteries that run dry". That my has been debunked over a decade plus (and yes, I've seen damaged iron sights). Modern, reputable optics will withstand a tremendous amount abuse, They have extremely long running times with much more efficient electronics. They are far more intuitive for novice shooters*, and with practice, they really speed up your time on target, multiple targets, and much better at longer distances. If one wants to continually improve their defensive fighting skills, adding an optic is just common sense evolution. If you're happy with just irons, that's fine, but don't ignore the improvements of technology when applied to more diverse scenario training. I think those who stick with irons are really just focusing mostly on those rapid drills at short range where you don't even use your iron sights; you really don't need any sights for that type of training...but that's just my opinion. ROCK6 |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 8:46:32 AM EDT
[#25]
I love an RDS on my plinking or gaming guns. If the batterys 's dead when I get to the range I just dig a new one out of my range bag.
I don't want to deal with it on my edc. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 8:53:01 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I screwed around way too long on that  I should have made it. The class already happen? And if so was it worth it? I'm sure it woukd have been good for me. And yes I actually bet I can hit that hostage target now haha. I was embarrassed after that class and I've been shooting a ton of pistol since then. I'm not winning competitions or anything, but now at least I won't bring dishonor to my family Me and John go at the end of March. I will definitely let you know! I am the opposite of you. I have been working seven days a week forever and a day now. I am dry firing though... |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 8:53:51 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Part in bold...that seems like it was a terrible idea. Why? My right to life and self defense doesn't stop at the chain link. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 8:57:37 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait a minute... First, you said you once carried a g19 with a rmr while wearing a 3 piece suit to a wedding. Now, you're saying you carried daily while wearing a tucked in shirt at a facility with a strict no weapons policy. Correct? Did you carry the g19 with rmr while wearing a tucked in shirt daily at the place with a strict policy? If so, that seems like it would be much more relevant than the one-time wedding example while wearing a 3 piece suit. If you didn't carry the g19 with the rmr and a tucked in shirt daily, what did you carry? Was it a different "real" gun and "real" holster? Sorry, but your stories are beginning to smell a lot like bullshit to me. I think you are missing my point. The point I was making is with the correct holster and gun you can carry anywhere. I carried at a wedding wearing it and I carried daily in a gas plant with tucked in FRs. No one knew or suspected anything. Got it now or is crayon more applicable here? |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 9:05:41 AM EDT
[#29]
Red dot on my hunting and field gun, Glock 40 mos. No dot on anything else. Dot seems faster for aquiring deer.
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Posted: 2/8/2021 9:10:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP carries a 1911 Nope and no |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 9:21:02 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have to relearn your presentation. They present different. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "I tried it and it wasn't for me" translation: "I have a poor presentation and spent a lot of time fishing for the dot." You have to relearn your presentation. They present different. You don’t have to relearn your presentation, but you may learn your presentation sucks. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 9:41:32 AM EDT
[#32]
"Red dots are gay because they emphasize how bad i flinch when I pull the trigger, I'm sticking with irons becUse at least I have something to blame my low left shooting on"
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Posted: 2/8/2021 9:52:39 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure Redback One is Jason Falla. Seems like he's as good a trainer as any of the other former special forces guys running training gigs. Telling people that point shooting is acceptable isn’t the mark of a “good trainer”. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 9:55:21 AM EDT
[#34]
@ChickenWilly FYI the mods are VERY harsh on that sort of joke. Might wanna change it before you get an account warning over silliness.
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Posted: 2/8/2021 9:56:40 AM EDT
[#35]
Can't see the front sight without my glasses. Who can guarantee they can keep their glasses in a fight?
I can see a blurry dot without my glasses. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:02:20 AM EDT
[#36]
I carry an ATEi M&P with an RM01 RMR and suppressor height irons that I've been carrying for close to 9 years now.
I stopped counting at over 20K rounds through that combo and I cannot say enough about the advantages of a rds over irons. Speed, accuracy, and consistency markedly improve with RDS sights once you get the hang of things. The fact that your target and sight are on the same focal plane makes all the difference to me. If you really wanna get your red-dot learn on, check out MDFI or the modern samurai project. They offer classes specifically for RDS shooters. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:05:46 AM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:22:42 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have to relearn your presentation. They present different. Quote HistoryQuoted: You have to relearn your presentation. They present different. They actually don't present differently. The orientation of your eye relative to the gun is exactly the same when aligning your sights with a red dot and with irons, assuming you were actually aligning your irons to begin with. Now that may be ok, if you were trained with the "at close range, just get hits somewhere on him before he gets hits on you, because that determines who wins" school of thought. But once you've made the decision, based on your training and whatever variables are part of the situation, to actually get a sight picture rather than point shoot, the red dot is superior to the irons. Red dots only require relearning anything if you were never actually aligning your irons to begin with. In which case what you're actually relearning is how to use sights, not how to use a red dot. Quoted: Must be why there is no need to relearn them. Just pick it up and go and you'll be instantly faster than irons...oh yeah, that's not how it usually goes. Actually, that is how it usually goes. If a red dot makes you slower, that's because you weren't actually aligning your irons before firing to begin with (which may or may not be a valid tactic under certain circumstances). So you're actually doing an apples to oranges comparison. What you're actually comparing is your speed while aligning a red dot vs speed while point shooting, not speed while aligning a red dot vs speed while aligning irons. Anyone who shoots irons (as in actually shoots irons in the sense that they actually align their irons and get a proper sight picture before firing) absolutely will be instantly faster when trying a red dot than they were with irons. No matter what your level of training and experience is, you'll always be faster with a sighting system that involves focusing on the target and a parallax-free dot than you are with a sighting system that involves aligning three different points in space and focusing on the front sight post. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:30:11 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Telling people that point shooting is acceptable isn’t the mark of a “good trainer”. Point shooting is exactly what you’ll be doing when your externally-holstered duty gun’s RDS gets occluded by rain or ditch dirt. Debate it all you like, but instinctive shooting is a critical competency for advanced shooters. It doesn’t mean fundamentals go out the window. It just means you get much faster with ‘em at CQB distances. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:34:49 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Snip: It reads as a one-time deal to me. He also made no mention of ever taking his jacket off at the wedding, while telling me I'm doing it wrong. There is no way I'm wearing a full fucking monkey suit all day everyday so I can carry a mid-size gun instead of a compact gun. I'd be sweating my balls off. Do I need to give you a play by play of the evening? Who goes to a wedding and leaves a jacket on the entire night? I was a groomsman and once the ceremony was over it was down to slip on Redwing boots, pants, and just the shirt. I wore my g19 to a semi formal event in slacks and a button up shirt, tucked in. I wore the same setup at a gas plant with tucked in FRs? Only time I ever took it off was when I was down in a hole fixing shit and bending down and crawling around in the mud. Again, the proper equipment and support gear makes a world of difference. They even have the phlster enigma which allows you to carry a full size gun, minus a light I believe, in joggers/sweatpants. It's all about the gear and how it's set up which can only be learned by actually getting out and doing the work. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:35:26 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Your gun, your business. But it seems everyone is adding more attachments to their ccw. Admittedly, I did add night sights but that did not affect the bulk. I also understand the red dots on AR's. I'm not getting the red dots on CCW's. Did I miss the memo? It seems like optics on a CCW adds bulk like a light. It adds bulk. It adds a fair bit of complexity, too. It allows most people to shoot more accurately at distance. It requires a presentation that is highly refined...which can be learned, but it takes some work. It's most definitely not for everybody. But I think it will become more common than not in the next 5-10 years. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:35:54 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Point shooting is exactly what you’ll be doing when your externally-holstered duty gun’s RDS gets occluded by rain or ditch dirt. Debate it all you like, but instinctive shooting is a critical competency for advanced shooters. It doesn’t mean fundamentals go out the window. It just means you get much faster with ‘em at CQB distances. Instinctive shooting is an oxymoron. “Instinctive” shooting uses trained muscle memory from a foundation of unconscious competence. If you want instinctive, smack them with a fist. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:36:53 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: most gunfights are within instinctive shooting distances "instinctive shooting" isn't an effective, repeatable methodology for winning gunfights. Not even at "instinctive shooting distances". |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:37:49 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure Redback One is Jason Falla. Seems like he's as good a trainer as any of the other former special forces guys running training gigs. Jason Falla is a good trainer but does alot of mil only courses. Some of the worst shooters I have ever seen has the .Mil or .Gov in their email address. I'm not saying he's a bad shooter but every instructor can't know everything. This is why you seek out multiple instructors and piece it all together. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:41:16 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Red dot on my hunting and field gun, Glock 40 mos. No dot on anything else. Dot seems faster for aquiring deer. Dots are solid for accurately engaging animals in the woods. The ability to maintain a target focus AND be precise enough with your aim to hit vitals at extended distance is night and day vs. iron sights. Especially in conditions of low/lower light. With a dot you have a presentation of visual information that works better with how your brain likes to process it. I haven't been in any gunfights with a dot, but hunting with my carry gun has shown some advantages that I believe will be applicable in a fighting context. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:50:26 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Telling people that point shooting is acceptable isn’t the mark of a “good trainer”. But someone being an experienced SF guy might be the mark of someone who understands things we don't. Perhaps because his training habits are designed around the assumption that his targets are shooting back at him, in a way that competition shooters sometimes aren't. Let's break this down. Putting aside the importance of precise shot placement vs being the first to get hits somewhere on him before he hits you, and putting aside whether or not this balance changes depending on various conditions (we can debate those two points later), would you grant the premise that point shooting is faster than aiming down any sighting system? I'm not asking about accuracy, I'm not asking about aiming down irons vs aiming down a red dot. I'm asking about just the speed of point shooting vs getting a proper sight picture before shooting. Before we debate whether or not there are any circumstances where any reduction in accuracy is a worthwhile tradeoff in exchange for getting rounds off faster, we have to be on the same page regarding whether getting a sight picture actually does take more time than not getting a sight picture. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 10:56:06 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Point shooting is exactly what you’ll be doing when your externally-holstered duty gun’s RDS gets occluded by rain or ditch dirt. Debate it all you like, but instinctive shooting is a critical competency for advanced shooters. It doesn’t mean fundamentals go out the window. It just means you get much faster with ‘em at CQB distances. I see people repeat this mantra often with all of the same rational. I see it from people who think of themselves as advanced shooters who justify it by saying that it’s faster and accurate enough. Guess what happens when I’ve put these people on a clock and start actually recording performance? It’s not faster and accuracy is horrible. I’ve yet to see anyone who can actually perform at the level they think they can using point shooting. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 11:01:00 AM EDT
[#48]
I'm still failing to see how adding a red dot is "complex"
It literally makes it way easier to shoot accurately and faster...the opposite of complex. People put red dots on rifles and are like "holy shit thats awesome and easy." But when it comes to handguns its "noooo thats too hard for no benefit wtf I want to be stuck in the 1940s wtf nooooo" Same dudes thinking red dots are complex are probably beating their canes against 5g towers because of the government brain control. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 11:02:49 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see people repeat this mantra often with all of the same rational. I see it from people who think of themselves as advanced shooters who justify it by saying that it’s faster and accurate enough. Guess what happens when I’ve put these people on a clock and start actually recording performance? It’s not faster and accuracy is horrible. I’ve yet to see anyone who can actually perform at the level they think they can using point shooting. I've seen you post in so many threads and I hate to invite myself to shoot with people but I'd like to get with you sometime and shoot. I love learning and failing at something is how I learn. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 11:03:11 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dots are solid for accurately engaging animals in the woods. The ability to maintain a target focus AND be precise enough with your aim to hit vitals at extended distance is night and day vs. iron sights. Especially in conditions of low/lower light. With a dot you have a presentation of visual information that works better with how your brain likes to process it. I haven't been in any gunfights with a dot, but hunting with my carry gun has shown some advantages that I believe will be applicable in a fighting context. This is why I started here. In short, I started from zero when I bought the pistol. On my fighting guns, it would take a complete rework of everything, new or modified guns, plus duty and off duty holsters. This would lead to considerable expense that will not be re compensated by my employer. I will need to see a clear unarguable and distinct advantage before I would consider it. Plus, if the battery dies on my hunting gun, I missed a deer. If it fails on my work gun, I probably died. |
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