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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:31:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fine, if someone wants to "push boundaries", they can do it on their own dime with the full understanding that if anything should go wrong there is no obligation by anyone, any agency, any government to put together a search and rescue mission paid for by taxpayers. Something goes wrong, you have a mishap, get into a jam? TFB... you knew the risks, you're on your own. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: RIP The number of comments here making light of, or downright celebrating this loss of life is disgusting. Those people had the balls to follow their dreams, and push boundaries not many other people do. I wouldn’t call them heroes, but they damn sure had the qualities that we need in men today. Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. Fine, if someone wants to "push boundaries", they can do it on their own dime with the full understanding that if anything should go wrong there is no obligation by anyone, any agency, any government to put together a search and rescue mission paid for by taxpayers. Something goes wrong, you have a mishap, get into a jam? TFB... you knew the risks, you're on your own. Dude, coc~justsayin. It’s pretty amazing that the Coast Guard is prohibited from charging people for their services. We’ve all paid a shit ton of taxes here and the one of thing I’m happy paying for is badass SAR teams ready to save people in dire situations. You’re talking about a drop in the bucket in the overall federal budget. How about we stop financing the toxic reproduction strategy of single moms instead. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:32:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It proved it could do it a few times......I give you that but it wasn't tested by ANY regulatory agency on the planet on how much it could handle long term. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The sub was proven. They also had access to all of the controversial information. It was risky for sure, but I wouldn’t call it stupid. It proved it could do it a few times......I give you that but it wasn't tested by ANY regulatory agency on the planet on how much it could handle long term. Yes, that’s what “experimental” means. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:32:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryI rest my case, Your Honor. $250,000 per person to take a chance on somebody's substandard idea of a diving bell. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:35:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It proved it could do it a few times......I give you that but it wasn't tested by ANY regulatory agency on the planet on how much it could handle long term. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The sub was proven. They also had access to all of the controversial information. It was risky for sure, but I wouldn’t call it stupid. It proved it could do it a few times......I give you that but it wasn't tested by ANY regulatory agency on the planet on how much it could handle long term. It was proven in the same way that I can load a single round into a 6-shot revolver, spin the cylinder, point it at my head, and pull the trigger. "See, Russian Roulette is proven safe!" |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:36:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fine, if someone wants to "push boundaries", they can do it on their own dime with the full understanding that if anything should go wrong there is no obligation by anyone, any agency, any government to put together a search and rescue mission paid for by taxpayers. Something goes wrong, you have a mishap, get into a jam? TFB... you knew the risks, you're on your own. So we don’t look for missing hikers anymore? And we don’t want to test our response to downed vessels? What if a military or commercial sub goes down tomorrow, we don’t want to have interagency/international/commercial people trained and new processes and best practices in place for next time? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:36:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I got my info from here but it is the internet: https://nypost.com/2023/06/19/inside-the-missing-submarine-that-explores-the-titanic/ From the article: "It took about two hours for the team to make the 2.3-mile descent to the sea floor. The team then spent an hour exploring the bottom before making their ascent. Dives can last up to 10 hours each, and passengers get a bit more space inside than in typical vessels." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I believe they're supposed to have around 4 hours at the wreck. There's a story from last year where they encountered some loss of battery power and had to abort after only 1 hour. I got my info from here but it is the internet: https://nypost.com/2023/06/19/inside-the-missing-submarine-that-explores-the-titanic/ From the article: "It took about two hours for the team to make the 2.3-mile descent to the sea floor. The team then spent an hour exploring the bottom before making their ascent. Dives can last up to 10 hours each, and passengers get a bit more space inside than in typical vessels." They’re supposed to have 4 hours of exploration max. But that includes time searching for the site, any delays in descent, and is actually based on the energy level of the batteries which apparently is likely to be less than 4 hours. Source: Spanish YouTuber who paid 250k to go in the sub. Can’t find the video right now but it’s a good watch. They had comms problems during the descent and almost had to abort. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:43:41 PM EDT
[#7]
IMHO the Titan imploded when they lost comms. End of story. It happened so fast that they had no way to put out a mayday.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:44:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Big Geek folded!
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:47:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IMHO the Titan imploded when they lost comms. End of story. It happened so fast that they had no way to put out a mayday. Comm loss was routine on their dives, that's why it took so long for them to report the Titan overdue. Could have happened at the same time a a bit later. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:48:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn't it around 350 bar at that depth? So approx 5000 PSI? 5568 at the ocean floor there. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:49:14 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:52:33 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:52:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistorySo she was a sub, eh |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:56:09 PM EDT
[#14]
What are the odds the memory cards in whatever cameras were recording survived?
 Submarine Implosion + Sinking Simulation of the ARA San Juan | Similar: KRI Nanggala 402, Titan |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:57:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Think of the piston of a Diesel engine. Then think of the same thing, but with pressures many times higher. That's what would happen in a sub at that depth. Instant crushing and incineration. I remember reading somewhere that due to Sudden increases in pressure at great depth a ruptured vessel can actually ignite the air. In this case going from 1 atmosphere to doing math here ... 1 Atmosphere of pressure is 14 PSI but each 33 feet adds another atmosphere so 300 atmospheres of pressure at 10k feet), the air in their lung would be 1/300th of initial size. basically the entire volume of their lungs would be converted to teh size of a PEA, the air on their cells would also be converted(slightly slower though at that pressure it would be DANM quick). There is something like 300x14 PSI of pressure on them 4600 PSI INSTANTLY. That will easily kill. multiply the initial pressure, volume, and temperature, then divide by the product of the final pressure and volume im not doing math right somehow... im guessing 3 meters cubic area inside their craft,, 1 atmosphere inside, (14.5 PSI) , temp 50 degrees(being optimistic), to a change to 4400 PSI when rupture happened reducing that 3 cubic meter area to .05 cubic meter means the temp shot up to 2100 degrees, that isnt compatiable with life.... |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 3:57:45 PM EDT
[#16]
So the back fell off?
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:05:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Come on, man! Near, far, wherever you are. I believe that the heart does go on.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:16:30 PM EDT
[#18]
One ping only.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:32:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Think of the piston of a Diesel engine. Then think of the same thing, but with pressures many times higher. That's what would happen in a sub at that depth. Instant crushing and incineration. I'm not convinced of the incineration part - has anybody actually done any experiments to confirm this? Seems to me that a good deal of the heat of compression would be absorbed by the water, along with the air going into solution at the same time, might mitigate the human torch scenario. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:33:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From the video of the lady that got her arm caught in a press, it was flat like a pancake. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Probably answered but... I think they said at that dept...around 5000 Lbs of pressure per square inch. I guess the best comparison that anyone can relate to would be...for every square inch of your body a sedan sitting on top of it, some people like me that is at least 87 sedans....   . Our normal atmosphere (sea level and dry land) = 14-15 Pounds per square inchI would say a hydraulic press that works in 3d+ might be the best to describe what would be left. Can also depend on how the craft imploded as well, this example is basically the outer hull just vanished. In this scenario, pressure is being applied everywhere equally. A regular press, whatever is being crushed has space and room to expand outward as pressure is applied. It’s why those styrofoam cups taken to extreme depths in water are more or less proportionally shrunk, not smashed flat. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:36:49 PM EDT
[#21]
As has been already mentioned....
The “Titanic” was an unsinkable ship And so was the Titan. Its carbon fiber tube was good for at least a few dive cycles. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:45:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So for all intents and purposes they were instantly converted into plankton.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's roughly 5586psi of pressure (12,500 feet / 33 feet per ATA = 379 ATA + surface [1 ATA] = 380 ATA x 14.7psi = 5,586psi) on their bodies at that depth, regardless of any pressure or damage caused by the implosion itself of the vessel. Fuck  So for all intents and purposes they were instantly converted into plankton.... More like compressivley tenderized and Louisiana blackened devilled long pork. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:48:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Well it has a definite lifespan now. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:51:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are the odds the memory cards in whatever cameras were recording survived?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLf_yD-lpF0Pretty decent, but it's a race against time for corrosion. Memory cards are tiny and scaling laws are in their favor, as are the materials used. Even if the card were damaged, the silicon die probably wouldn't be and information could get recovered. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:52:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not convinced of the incineration part - has anybody actually done any experiments to confirm this? Seems to me that a good deal of the heat of compression would be absorbed by the water, along with the air going into solution at the same time, might mitigate the human torch scenario. Believe it. Gas Law says so. PV=nRT |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:54:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not convinced of the incineration part - has anybody actually done any experiments to confirm this? Seems to me that a good deal of the heat of compression would be absorbed by the water, along with the air going into solution at the same time, might mitigate the human torch scenario. Debris recovered from explosively compressed submarines are charred. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 4:55:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RIP The number of comments here making light of, or downright celebrating this loss of life is disgusting. Those people had the balls to follow their dreams, and push boundaries not many other people do. I wouldn’t call them heroes, but they damn sure had the qualities that we need in men today. Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. No one is making light of their deaths, they’re making light of the methodology, or lack thereof, employed by Oceangate. Purposely hiring inexperienced people in order to get them “excited about oceanography” leads to…well, this. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:03:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not convinced of the incineration part - has anybody actually done any experiments to confirm this? Seems to me that a good deal of the heat of compression would be absorbed by the water, along with the air going into solution at the same time, might mitigate the human torch scenario. When you compress air you generate heat~  Fire Syringe |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:04:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the back fell off? More likely blown off during the 8000 fps inrush of seawater and 5600 psi of pressure, from some sort of front hatch failure. It Vitamixed everything non-metallic. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:07:14 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Essentially vaporized. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What does the human body look like after it suffers that much pressure? Is it flat LOL or does it explode? Essentially vaporized. I recall a movie a long time a go that said at those depths it will crush you to the size of an egg. It had a foreign guy, or at least he spoke with an accent , a deusenberg, a bridge and I think dirk benedict in it. I could be wrong though. It was a long time a go. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:08:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe they should have had at least a couple of 50-year old white men with 30 years of military submariner experience on the program. No one is making light of their deaths, they're making light of the methodology, or lack thereof, employed by Oceangate. Purposely hiring inexperienced people in order to get them "excited about oceanography" leads to well, this. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:08:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do we need to start a new thread every time there's any news? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:10:43 PM EDT
[#33]
This business will get out of control.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:17:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RIP The number of comments here making light of, or downright celebrating this loss of life is disgusting. Those people had the balls to follow their dreams, and push boundaries not many other people do. I wouldn’t call them heroes, but they damn sure had the qualities that we need in men today. Hopefully some will learn from this, and push forward on the project. Qualities of being filthy rich? I mean, I don’t wish this on anyone, but I find it difficult to view it tragically. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:19:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably answered but... I think they said at that dept...around 5000 Lbs of pressure per square inch. I guess the best comparison that anyone can relate to would be...for every square inch of your body a sedan sitting on top of it, some people like me that is at least 870 sedans.... . Our normal atmosphere (sea level and dry land) = 14-15 Pounds per square inchI would say a hydraulic press that works in 3d+ might be the best to describe what would be left. Can also depend on how the craft imploded as well, this example is basically the outer hull just vanished. Or the use of explosive blocks to compress the physics package of a nuke. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:19:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Smashing success; when was the last time people were this excited about deep sea submarines?  Yea, OceanGate crushed it. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:20:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryI went back and watched part of this, they don't start talking until the 14 minute mark but that is more introductions, I stopped around the 22 minute mark as I figured I got as much info as I was going to get (maybe someone asked a better question later)? Take-a-ways though information will probably change as they keep examining the remains: 1. The wreckage is consistent with an implosion and both the "end bells" of the pressure tube were found in the search (the odds of anyone making it out is lower than the number representing absolute zero in degrees F.) 2. Most of the wreckage is roughly 1600 feet from the bow of the Titanic and appeared to imploded in the water column which suggest they did not run into anything, there is a second debris field and I am not sure the distance it was. 3. The lost of contact and the catastrophic event were probably very closely related if not on the identical time stamp based on the debris field. 4. They had sonar buoys in the water for a few days above the search area and never heard any signs of an implosion from this point on (mostly likely this happened on day 0 of the event). |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:21:44 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do we need to start a new thread every time there's any news? Because I didn't want to search the 70-page thread like the Canadian Coast Guard hunting for a small update in a vast thread. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:22:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I feel bad for the kid. Yep. Privileged to death. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:25:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do we need to start a new thread every time there's any news? It is a rather curious thing. I guess getting responses after reposting ubiquitous news is GD's version of getting "likes". |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:26:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Well, next time I'm trapped on a mountain, or a cave, or anywhere, I expect the full force of American government response.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:27:50 PM EDT
[#42]
delete
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:31:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I feel bad for the kid. The kid took his 15 minutes of fame to shout out his own personal social media accounts/channels and gain some likes and subscribers. My field of fucks are empty for him in particular. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:31:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Ocean Gate...
Heavens Gate... they both met at the Pearly Gates. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:47:41 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Think of the piston of a Diesel engine. Then think of the same thing, but with pressures many times higher. That's what would happen in a sub at that depth. Instant crushing and incineration. Is that what would happen to a CF hull, that probably didnt use expoxy resin for high pressures and cold temperatures? Or would it be shards like a broken pot? Waiting for photos to be leaked. The wreckage. Doubt much will be seen of bodies now. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:49:20 PM EDT
[#46]
So they can call off the government involvement, right?
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Posted: 6/22/2023 5:51:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And how is that? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wokeness claims some more! And how is that? Probably answered somewhere in the next four pages, but the oceangate ceo wouldn't hire experienced 50 year old white guys because the "lack inspiration " So he presumably hires kids straight out of college that know the pronouns, but weak on statics, can tell you what color they feel today, but never heard of a corrosion table... |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 6:20:43 PM EDT
[#48]
I wonder what kind of pressure cycle testing that hull design went through, if any.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 6:26:16 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fine, if someone wants to "push boundaries", they can do it on their own dime with the full understanding that if anything should go wrong there is no obligation by anyone, any agency, any government to put together a search and rescue mission paid for by taxpayers. Something goes wrong, you have a mishap, get into a jam? TFB... you knew the risks, you're on your own. I'm OK with what you are describing not being how things work. I think it's awesome that civilized humans move mountains to save someone that might be saveable. No different with the Thailand cave rescue. It's humanity at it's absolute best. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 6:28:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went back and watched part of this, they don't start talking until the 14 minute mark but that is more introductions, I stopped around the 22 minute mark as I figured I got as much info as I was going to get (maybe someone asked a better question later)? Take-a-ways though information will probably change as they keep examining the remains: 1. The wreckage is consistent with an implosion and both the "end bells" of the pressure tube were found in the search (the odds of anyone making it out is lower than the number representing absolute zero in degrees F.) 2. Most of the wreckage is roughly 1600 feet from the bow of the Titanic and appeared to imploded in the water column which suggest they did not run into anything, there is a second debris field and I am not sure the distance it was. 3. The lost of contact and the catastrophic event were probably very closely related if not on the identical time stamp based on the debris field. 4. They had sonar buoys in the water for a few days above the search area and never heard any signs of an implosion from this point on (mostly likely this happened on day 0 of the event). Are people on social media complaining yet that the government took to long to start the rescue? |
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