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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:02:12 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In all seriousness, I "think" they were dead the first day. I guess in theory they could have arrived on bottom and then a few hours later it happened, but that scenario seems less likely. The mothership knows. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think you’re missing some of the context of the conversation the other poster and I were having. This isn’t about the capsule having imploded. It’s looking that way now with the announcement of a debris field. We were discussing when that implosion could possibly have happened. In all seriousness, I "think" they were dead the first day. I guess in theory they could have arrived on bottom and then a few hours later it happened, but that scenario seems less likely. The mothership knows. It had to. From what I read it had some kind of water soluble ballast. It would have been on the surface in 2x the expedition length onthe first day, regalrdless of human intervention |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:02:52 PM EST
[#2]
I hear that a team of women bridge engineers from Florida designed the sub...
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:03:11 PM EST
[#3]
So, no more dank memes?
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:03:22 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldn't they have found the whole sub ? Sounds to me like the hull itself failed Consider this opinion...not fact. Previous comments here suggest that a breach in the vessel at any point (when really deep) would result in a near instantaneous implosion due to the extreme outside pressure. The carbon fiber shell would shatter. If true, about the only remaining parts would be the landing legs, titanium rings at the front and rear and possibly other metal components like O2 tanks. Hand controllers would survive as would the high tech poop bucket. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:03:26 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The denser the water, is there tritium down there? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Depending on the descent rate they were probably very close to the Titanic. The lower it goes, the slower it goes. 15-20 minutes away from the target could have it less than 1000 yards away from it. The denser the water the slower the sink rate. poor attempt at snark. yes, the water down there is more dense. science anyone? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:04:30 PM EST
[#6]
Quoted: Some  Somewhat off topic, but I have to give that group a A+ on resourcefulness. Not only that but that classic truck is worth a bit if they get to land without the Coast Guard seizing it. It’s crazy to compare taking a risk to give your family a better life vs see a sunken coffin for fun and bragging rights. It’s like comparing a soldiers life, taking defending their homeland versus a gang banger getting shot in a robbery attempt "Classic" trucks just like it with lower miles are parked in the back of most quonset sheds in the Midwest. Usually sell for scrap price at farm auctions, since semis became widespread they're pretty much worthless. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:05:46 PM EST
[#7]
I'm not sure water gets "more dense." I seem to recall from Chemistry that water is fairly incompressible. Ionic bonds, etc etc
Hence, the near uniform above freezing temp of 0-3 C, regardless of depth. But I'm no water scientist. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:06:02 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From one of the videos posted earlier, the CEO was trying to represent the trip as routine, and something that "should be like an elevator." Hop in and say "Alexa, take me to the Titanic." My impression - the current passenger fees were simply to defray costs, but his real goal was likely to get (more) investors, potentially from his pool of wealthy passengers, to scale things up to a profitable commercial level. Unfortunately, "fake it 'till you make it" does not work well at 5600 psi. That's exactly my impression too. Why he was willing to run losing some money too. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:06:14 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From one of the videos posted earlier, the CEO was trying to represent the trip as routine, and something that "should be like an elevator." Hop in and say "Alexa, take me to the Titanic." My impression - the current passenger fees were simply to defray costs, but his real goal was likely to get (more) investors, potentially from his pool of wealthy passengers, to scale things up to a profitable commercial level. Unfortunately, "fake it 'till you make it" does not work well at 5600 psi. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:06:33 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, that's all she wrote. May their families find peace in the time ahead. Just imagine all the fighting over the estates that just started . . . |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:08:19 PM EST
[#11]
Impressive work finding the debris. At least the families know it was swift.
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:08:24 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure water gets "more dense." I seem to recall from Chemistry that water is fairly incompressible. Ionic bonds, etc etc And why we use hydrostatic testing for pressure vessels. Pump something with air pressure to test it and it becomes a bomb. Pump it full of water, and its safe, even if the thing fails. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:09:50 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Might be worthless now, but important to note that there are three oceangate legal entities: OceanGate Expeditions provides submarine trips OceanGate Inc. Produces little submarines OceanGate Foundation is a 501-c-3 non profit All three are owned by “Tits Up Tours” |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:10:51 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't need to have a lot in common with someone not to be gleeful that an accident created by the piss-poor risk management of a dickhead selling rides killed them. Sure. I'll never in my life be in a position to drop a 1/4 million on a ride. That doesn't mean I have to rejoice and revel in their meeting a bad end because all I know about them is they have a lot more money than me. And no, I don't have very much 'in common' with the life of the average Mexican or Appalachian beyond the fact we both have little political power. So will it be funny too when they raise a toast to every one of us or our kids that gets smoked? There’s no reason to be sad or have an emotional response at all to this incident, either. Some people I don’t know got in an experimental, essentially home built, uncertified deep diving submersible to take a tourist trip to visit the graveyard of the Titanic. Unsurprisingly, they’re now dead. It has no effect on my life, other than being a semi interesting story to follow. I’ll chortle a bit at the funny memes; their demise doesn’t make me sad. And a lack of emotional response to this story is reasonable. Should we feel sad for every human that dies doing something risky? Other people with more sense (see Josh Gates) decided it was not safe. It seems it was pretty obvious that this was a slap dash operation. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:10:54 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And why we use hydrostatic testing for pressure vessels. Pump something with air pressure to test it and it becomes a bomb. Pump it full of water, and its safe, even if the thing fails. Example? And y? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:14:28 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: poor attempt at snark. yes, the water down there is more dense. science anyone? Quote HistoryQuoted: poor attempt at snark. yes, the water down there is more dense. science anyone? I recall a rule of thumb of 1% density change in water per mile of depth. That's effectively incompressible - there are solids that compress more than water. The salinity and temperature of the liquid water have a bigger impact on density than pressure does. Quoted: The carbon fiber shell would shatter. If true, about the only remaining parts would be the landing legs, titanium rings at the front and rear and possibly other metal components like O2 tanks. A betting man would bet that it was the window or carbon fiber tube that failed as opposed to the metal end caps. The shock wave of an implosion might be strong enough to damage the metal end caps though, making it difficult to determine a cause unless they get the parts into a lab. It's a safe bet they will raise any debris they find because everybody will want to know what happened. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:14:40 PM EST
[#17]
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:14:51 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't be too worried about liability. Good luck proving it. Attorney fees to the moon though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hope the plexiglass company made him sign a waiver that the window would only be used to 4,500ft depths. If they knew it was going down to the Titanic they could be liable if that was the point of failure. You don't sue who is liable. You sue who has money. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:14:51 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two mile+ long anchor cable.......  Just consult with FJB. Build a train track to the site and then take an elevator down.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If we are gonna do tourism visits to the wreck of the Titanic why do they not anchor a buoy near it? They could then follow the buoy anchor line down and know that they end up near the wreck. Could even put an automated weather station, wave height reporter, and a navigation beacon on it. Two mile+ long anchor cable....... Just consult with FJB. Build a train track to the site and then take an elevator down. An anchor chain for an aircraft carrier is around 1000 feet. This wouldn't need to be nearly as robust. Kevlar rope, perhaps? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:14:57 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, no more dank memes?
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:15:17 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure water gets "more dense." I seem to recall from Chemistry that water is fairly incompressible. Ionic bonds, etc etc Hence, the near uniform above freezing temp of 0-3 C, regardless of depth. But I'm no water scientist. so now its a question of grammar and science? 'more dense' is correct to compare the deep water to the surface water. and yes, it is more dense because of salinity, temp, pressure, etc. this fucking place. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:15:47 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course he said that for tax purposes. He may not have been making a million per trip but he probably wasn’t funding from his own holdings either. Whatever money the family has will be gone after in civil court if needed. Could victims’ attorneys make the case that this was criminal negligence covered up for profit? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The CEO mentioned that the ship and fuel were costing him $1M every time they used it. Was asked if he was turning a profit and he responded with a "no" Of course he said that for tax purposes. He may not have been making a million per trip but he probably wasn’t funding from his own holdings either. Whatever money the family has will be gone after in civil court if needed. Could victims’ attorneys make the case that this was criminal negligence covered up for profit? Sure. Failure to respect the corporate form by treating the entity as an alter ego of the CEO, seems obvious. Along with, it seems, a very likely finding that Rush was himself grossly negligent in his actions operating the company and marketing its services to third parties. From Rush's heirs' perspective, I hope they had decent wealth and estate planning. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:16:06 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hence, the near uniform above freezing temp of 0-3 C, regardless of depth. Ackshually, the ocean floor is around that temperature because water is at it's maximum density of about +4c. ie. if the water gets any colder or any hotter it is less dense and rises. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:17:56 PM EST
[#24]
I do feel better knowing they didn't suffer for days.
Hope they find the front hemisphere. Would be nice to see if the window is still intact. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:18:13 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And so, it all comes together. THey lost comms, just like they always had in the past. "Ohmigod, we've lost comms!!!" "Naawwww, it's normal, don't worry about it..." A few minutes later... KABOOOOMMM And of course, that explains why the automatic ballast release, floating to the surface, etc. didn't happen. It's over, folks. Time to go home. "Fools rush in, where mortals fear to tread." Not over until photos of the Titan debris field are leaked out. See if the window is intact in the front hemisphere- or not See if the CF hull is in shards, or mostly intact. Maybe the glue between the CF tube and the Ti ring failed. They can airbrush out the body parts if they want. But depending how it failed there might not be many body parts in the hull. Could have been “flushed” out more of less and strewn all over |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:18:15 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Example? And y? Stored energy. Compressed gas expands a lot til it reaches equilibrium. Pressurized water doesn't compress or expand when released from container |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:18:17 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: they will never be able to determine that. only hypothesize. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hope the plexiglass company made him sign a waiver that the window would only be used to 4,500ft depths. If they knew it was going down to the Titanic they could be liable if that was the point of failure. they will never be able to determine that. only hypothesize. If they find the window intact in the end cap, they can rule the window out as the failure point. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:18:28 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so now its a question of grammar and science? 'more dense' is correct to compare the deep water to the surface water. and yes, it is more dense because of salinity, temp, pressure, etc. this fucking place. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm not sure water gets "more dense." I seem to recall from Chemistry that water is fairly incompressible. Ionic bonds, etc etc Hence, the near uniform above freezing temp of 0-3 C, regardless of depth. But I'm no water scientist. so now its a question of grammar and science? 'more dense' is correct to compare the deep water to the surface water. and yes, it is more dense because of salinity, temp, pressure, etc. this fucking place. I'm no water scientist! |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:18:56 PM EST
[#29]
When's the next dive? Who's up?
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:18:59 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Example? And y? If you pump something full of a gas, like an air or propane tank, the gas compresses. That stores energy. Say you just made a tank thats supposed to hold 100PSI. You want to test it at 200PSI and make sure it can hold that pressure for a period of time. Go pump up a tank with a compressable gas to 190PSI and it fails, and watch the explosion. If you had pumped up the same tank to the same 190PSI with water and it failed, the most you'd have is a broken tank and a bit of a water mess. The water doesnt compress, so you dont get all that stored energy. Its so safe that hobby folks regularly test their tanks with cheap manual hydrostatic pumps in their own homes. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:19:20 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do feel better knowing they didn't suffer for days. Hope they find the front hemisphere. Would be nice to see if the window is still intact. I hope they can recover one or more of the cameras that were mounted on the sub. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:19:57 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so now its a question of grammar and science? 'more dense' is correct to compare the deep water to the surface water. and yes, it is more dense because of salinity, temp, pressure, etc. this fucking place. It is not "this fucking place." Words have meaning. The water is not apprceiably denser at the Titanic site than a mile above it. The pressure is immensely higher than near the surface. Pressure is not density. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:20:18 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And so, it all comes together. THey lost comms, just like they always had in the past. "Ohmigod, we've lost comms!!!" "Naawwww, it's normal, don't worry about it..." A few minutes later... KABOOOOMMM And of course, that explains why the automatic ballast release, floating to the surface, etc. didn't happen. It's over, folks. Time to go home. "Fools rush in, where mortals fear to tread." |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:21:08 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:21:48 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So who is going to be CEO now? An inspirational hire? I think there might be a Bud Light executive or two looking. And they know how to improve EDI scores. ?? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:21:54 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In all seriousness, I "think" they were dead the first day. I guess in theory they could have arrived on bottom and then a few hours later it happened, but that scenario seems less likely. The mothership knows. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think you’re missing some of the context of the conversation the other poster and I were having. This isn’t about the capsule having imploded. It’s looking that way now with the announcement of a debris field. We were discussing when that implosion could possibly have happened. In all seriousness, I "think" they were dead the first day. I guess in theory they could have arrived on bottom and then a few hours later it happened, but that scenario seems less likely. The mothership knows. I would expect they heard it happen. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:21:57 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hope they can recover one or more of the cameras that were mounted on the sub. Computer chips have small pockets of air inside them and would likely be crushed as effectively as if you hit them with a hammer. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:22:05 PM EST
[#38]
As we approach 300 PM EDT, can someone post the link to the press briefing?
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:22:10 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you pump something full of a gas, like an air or propane tank, the gas compresses. That stores energy. Say you just made a tank thats supposed to hold 100PSI. You want to test it at 200PSI and make sure it can hold that pressure for a period of time. Go pump up a tank with a compressable gas to 190PSI and it fails, and watch the explosion. If you had pumped up the same tank to the same 190PSI with water and it failed, the most you'd have is a broken tank and a bit of a water mess. The water doesnt compress, so you dont get all that stored energy. Its so safe that hobby folks regularly test their tanks with cheap manual hydrostatic pumps in their own homes. Had no idea. Makes sense. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:22:53 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ackshually, the ocean floor is around that temperature because water is at it's maximum density of about +4c. ie. if the water gets any colder or any hotter it is less dense and rises. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hence, the near uniform above freezing temp of 0-3 C, regardless of depth. Ackshually, the ocean floor is around that temperature because water is at it's maximum density of about +4c. ie. if the water gets any colder or any hotter it is less dense and rises. Never realized that, cool bit of info. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:23:25 PM EST
[#41]
Never Never Submarine Adventures: "Never go out with us, cause you'll never come back."
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:23:34 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When's the next dive? Who's up? I kinda want to go now. Reckon they could make that window another inch thicker? |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:25:34 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Computer chips have small pockets of air inside them and would likely be crushed as effectively as if you hit them with a hammer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I hope they can recover one or more of the cameras that were mounted on the sub. Computer chips have small pockets of air inside them and would likely be crushed as effectively as if you hit them with a hammer. There were at least 4 external cameras mounted on the sub's hull in addition to the internal camera looking out window. Not sure how the external cameras would have been crushed. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:26:18 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I kinda want to go now. Reckon they could make that window another inch thicker? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When's the next dive? Who's up? I kinda want to go now. Reckon they could make that window another inch thicker? They might even upgrade the controller to a Microcenter universal remote. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:27:40 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish Communists, Socialists, Marxists, Despots, Fascists, Child Sex Predators, Gun Grabbers, and Authoritarians dead.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:28:11 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I kinda want to go now. Reckon they could make that window another inch thicker? The window seems to be weak point. They should just make it an entirely closed cylinder. Once they get down to the Titanic, they could watch a VHS copy of James Cameron's movie on a TV |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:28:28 PM EST
[#47]
Anybody have a linkdin account that can search for the diversity hires on there?
I'd imagine they are gonna be pretty unhirable in their field. Maybe they can still be motivational speakers and inspire the kids. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:28:31 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They might even upgrade the controller to a Microcenter universal remote. I'm thinking about robbing the joystick out of a Kubota SVL-95 skid steer. You can't pass it around to the passengers, but to be honest, I don't want to do that anyway. A driver and a backup driver is plenty. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:28:37 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the ROV deployed is yielding information about a debris field, I wonder if has an image of at least one shiny titanium hemispherical end cap. Be interesting if they could recover one or both for failure analysis. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:29:00 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I kinda want to go now. Reckon they could make that window another inch thicker? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When's the next dive? Who's up? I kinda want to go now. Reckon they could make that window another inch thicker?  The World According to Garp (4/10) Movie CLIP - Pre-Disastered Home (1982) HD |
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