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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:47:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well perhaps they used the science to form their business model? And Toyota being the pioneer in EV I think they would have the best science from wich to form a business model... But maybe you are right and we should go all electric because Jo Xiden's science says so. I wonder who pays for his science? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So the scientists who is paid by the company says the company's business model is the best one? Okay then Well perhaps they used the science to form their business model? And Toyota being the pioneer in EV I think they would have the best science from wich to form a business model... But maybe you are right and we should go all electric because Jo Xiden's science says so. I wonder who pays for his science? Who is paying for Toyota's science? |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:49:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryNo ponds, no strip mining. Tons of $$$. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:50:36 AM EDT
[#3]
EVs are great for certain applications. Especially short drives with frequent stops like city driving, usps mail cars, 2nd car for wife where she only drives to work and kids to soccer.
Trying to replace all Cars with EV is beyond stupid, so naturally thats exactly what politics are pushing for. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:51:05 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: live simply so that others may simply live. But then you have fewer jobs and more poverty. Old Soviet peasant saying: "They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work." |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:52:50 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kind of like government paid for climate research at the University except the Toyota paid business analyst and sciences losses their job if they are wrong. The government scientists simply get more research grants to figure how to make freaks out of little boys. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So the scientists who is paid by the company says the company's business model is the best one? Okay then Kind of like government paid for climate research at the University except the Toyota paid business analyst and sciences losses their job if they are wrong. The government scientists simply get more research grants to figure how to make freaks out of little boys. Except they get fired if they tell Toyota what Toyota doesn't want to hear. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:54:11 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is paying for Toyota's science? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So the scientists who is paid by the company says the company's business model is the best one? Okay then Well perhaps they used the science to form their business model? And Toyota being the pioneer in EV I think they would have the best science from wich to form a business model... But maybe you are right and we should go all electric because Jo Xiden's science says so. I wonder who pays for his science? Who is paying for Toyota's science? Probably Toyota? IIRC, per my post on the last page, Toyota's Chief Engineer has the position stated in the OP article. Do you think he was handed that position by some WEF/COP/IPCC scientist or something? If so, why isn't his position "full BEV right now!!!" ? |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:55:40 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EVs are great for certain applications. Especially short drives with frequent stops like city driving, usps mail cars, 2nd car for wife where she only drives to work and kids to soccer. Trying to replace all Cars with EV is beyond stupid, so naturally thats exactly what politics are pushing for. Let me clue you into something... physics is physics is physics. EVs are better at short trips with lots of stops, but it is not what they are best at. Stop-and-go is probably the least efficient mode of travel for any vehicle. EVs are more efficient at it than ICE vehicles, yes, but it is not where EVs will be the most efficient. Reality is reality. EVs don't get around that. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:58:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great Euronews article on lithium mining. Cliff notes: the process is incredibly toxic to the environment and endangers water sources. Article link I'm Chemist in the mining industry (Consultant) and have worked for SQM. What this article paints as being specific to lithium extraction is true for a number of minerals that are produced from subsurface brines and solution mining. Fuck EVs being forced on us, but we have to be honest with our critique of lithium extraction. Wait until you find out how they leach gold. 
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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:58:38 AM EDT
[#9]
Toyota is 100% correct. You can't just instantly change to EV. Plug in hybrids to me are the solution for the transition to full EV.
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Posted: 2/3/2023 9:59:53 AM EDT
[#10]
"One way or the other, there will be a diversity of powertrains used throughout the world." It makes good strategic sense to build a diversity range of powertrains. The more energy resources a country can exploit, the higher a standard of living they can generate for their citizens. If we were smart we'd take advantage of EVERYTHING including oil, gas, solar, wind, hydro, and nuclear where and only where each of those makes economic sense. Having a transportation fleet that can take advantage of a diverse range of energy sources is a component of energy security. It doesn't have to be all or nothing on any particular energy type. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:01:23 AM EDT
[#11]
This is not so much as Toyota believing in science as it is Toyota belatedly realizing that the government subsidy gravy train is probably coming to an end soon and they don't want to be stuck with lots full of expensive cars that no one wants or can afford or even use.
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:02:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck ev’s Every time I see one of you mouth-breathers parrot this trope, I feel bad and assume you’re a semi-functional retard. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:03:19 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm Chemist in the mining industry (Consultant) and have worked for SQM. What this article paints as being specific to lithium extraction is true for a number of minerals that are produced from subsurface brines and solution mining. Fuck EVs being forced on us, but we have to be honest with our critique of lithium extraction. Wait until you find out how they leach gold.
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:04:10 AM EDT
[#14]
It's absolutely the right track.
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:04:24 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: YOU WANT BABY POLAR BEARS TO DIE!!! MURDERER Go hug that baby polar bear ... 
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:07:20 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every time I see one of you mouth-breathers parrot this trope, I feel bad and assume you’re a semi-functional retard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Fuck ev’s Every time I see one of you mouth-breathers parrot this trope, I feel bad and assume you’re a semi-functional retard. To be fair, it's not an EV thread until mauserfan makes his signature post. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:10:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Toyota is correct and I'm shocked they took this direction. They spent a fortune investing in hydrogen and hybrid tech only to watch major governments penalize it and subsidize their predetermined "solution." We are barely a decade away from legislative mandates prohibiting anything but EVs being sold. This is what happens when both the Left and the Right demonize free markets. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:13:39 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd rather go back to horses than EV tractors. EV Tractors will be so cost prohibitive I doubt most farmers could stay in business. I have no doubt this is the goal of many eco-nuts. The goal seems to be more about reducing food production at a time we should be finding ways to produce more food. I can see EVs in the cities but the further you get away from them the less they have a purpose. No, I don't advocate their use, period. The cities will become gigantic sink wells of Ozone pollution, a more dangerous eco problem. We are pushing a product but not even trying to build the grid network to support it. It is the typical approach of wackos. It is nothing but a patchwork of millions of bandaids. When it fails it will be stone age catastrophic. i dont think that EV tractors COULD work at all. will run 16-24 hours a day on big farms, you cant charge a battery for 1.5 horus every 3 and keep that up. plus they would be HUGE batteries, (tractors use TONS of torque constantly) and dont brake so no regen cycle, and constant acceleration. basically it would be like doing quarter mile drags constantly) tesla's doing drag races get 50 out of a full charge, so in miles that is 12.5 MILES from a 300 mile battery. in tractor time that is more like hour plowing hour charging. or tow a giant trailer battery(weighs a TON, see what towing does for EV trucks). Some sort of hybrid tractor MAYBE but the nature of the work doesnt lend itself to usefulness in that application. Hybrids work great for incity due to teh regen braking , they store braking energy as acceleration energy so they get 60-70 city miles while only gettign 55 highway. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:13:53 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every time I see one of you mouth-breathers parrot this trope, I feel bad and assume you’re a semi-functional retard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Fuck ev’s Every time I see one of you mouth-breathers parrot this trope, I feel bad and assume you’re a semi-functional retard. You should never feel bad when your instincts tend to lead you to correct assumptions. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:14:28 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Almonds? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm Chemist in the mining industry (Consultant) and have worked for SQM. What this article paints as being specific to lithium extraction is true for a number of minerals that are produced from subsurface brines and solution mining. Fuck EVs being forced on us, but we have to be honest with our critique of lithium extraction. Wait until you find out how they leach gold. I see you're in Utah- home to another of my former clients. A pretty large magnesium metal producer that utilizes massive evaporation ponds near the great salt lake. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:14:35 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: PHEV make the most sense. I don't understand the push to dramatically change technology instead of doing the crawl, walk, run approach. Hybrids in commercial vehicles could dramatically reduce emissions when doing local deliveries and such, but when distance needs to be travelled or heavy loads moved you have the ICE engine to carry the load when the batteries wane. With large numbers of hybrids it would provide tons of data to properly engineer and design EVs if/when it is decided that is the best way to go. For a lot of people these systems make sense, and are proven technology with a solid backing of reliability. They can be scaled up. There is no reason why I can buy an EV work van, but can't buy a hybrid one. Same with pickups. Its an asinine overstep to go straight to EV when we don't have the battery technology to make it scalable for what we want to do, and we don't have the infrastructure to support mass conversion to EVs. Hybrids buy time to build out power plants and upgrade transmission and distribution infrastructure while slowly ramping up load on the grid. The 2030 or 2035 deadlines are stupid, as there isn't enough money in this country to do the necessary infrastructure upgrades to change all those vehicles, nevermind the fact we don't have the raw materials to build that many batteries. Crawl, walk, run. Plug In HyBrids are the correct answer for the USA. Plain and simple, it just makes sense. Can you imagine how awesome a truck you would have that would be ICE to the rear wheels and EV to the front? |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:24:11 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see you're in Utah- home to another of my former clients. A pretty large magnesium metal producer that utilizes massive evaporation ponds near the great salt lake. https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/1/26/23572960/wasatch-front-inversions-caused-by-magnesium-plant They're the only domestic producer of magnesium, which is kinda important for defense-related applications. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:27:33 AM EDT
[#23]
The WEF wants the unwashed masses living in their hunger game 15 minute communities.
Toyota needs to get on board or their ESG score will plummet. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:34:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm Chemist in the mining industry (Consultant) and have worked for SQM. What this article paints as being specific to lithium extraction is true for a number of minerals that are produced from subsurface brines and solution mining. Fuck EVs being forced on us, but we have to be honest with our critique of lithium extraction. Wait until you find out how they leach gold. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Great Euronews article on lithium mining. Cliff notes: the process is incredibly toxic to the environment and endangers water sources. Article link I'm Chemist in the mining industry (Consultant) and have worked for SQM. What this article paints as being specific to lithium extraction is true for a number of minerals that are produced from subsurface brines and solution mining. Fuck EVs being forced on us, but we have to be honest with our critique of lithium extraction. Wait until you find out how they leach gold. SQM bought me a house. So I like them. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:36:10 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Yoda is correct. I do believe that with battery tech improving that the majority of cars used the way that a typical American uses them can be EV, but not all. The part that I am struggling with is with any kind of recreational vehicles, over the road, construction and farm vehicles. It is just not practical to be an EV. There is no solution for me to pull my 7000 pound race trailer 4 hours, set up camp in a remote field for the weekend and drive back 4 hours. Even with the best battery tech available I could only go a hundred or so miles before having to recharge, then how do I recharge once I get there? You think you'll be allowed to own a race car or RV if certain people get their way? |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:38:21 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The eco-nazis don't care about actual science. All that matters to them is "science" that confirms their beliefs, even if some of those beliefs are contradictory. They are a cult who want to reduce the population. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:40:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would the largest car manufacturer in the world know about this? We should ask le mars man Elon instead. To be fair Tesla is working on hydrogen powered cars too so they’ll be outside the EV niche as well. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:41:39 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Don't mention the war!!" From the British comedy thread I didn't start it! Yes you did, you invaded Poland. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:42:14 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, and the environmentalists have targeted them for shutdown, too. https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/1/26/23572960/wasatch-front-inversions-caused-by-magnesium-plant They're the only domestic producer of magnesium, which is kinda important for defense-related applications. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I see you're in Utah- home to another of my former clients. A pretty large magnesium metal producer that utilizes massive evaporation ponds near the great salt lake. https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/1/26/23572960/wasatch-front-inversions-caused-by-magnesium-plant They're the only domestic producer of magnesium, which is kinda important for defense-related applications. And that's the only reason they exist- they're a strategic metal producer. On a cost basis they can't compete with the other global producers, but tariffs handle that. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:42:32 AM EDT
[#30]
They will try to ban race cars , boats, ATV anything that uses excessive fuel
So put the catalytic converter back on your race car and probably thousands of deleated diesel vehicles |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:45:43 AM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:46:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Toyota thread!
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:52:14 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plug In HyBrids are the correct answer for the USA. Plain and simple, it just makes sense. Can you imagine how awesome a truck you would have that would be ICE to the rear wheels and EV to the front?  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:56:27 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Toyota is correct and I'm shocked they took this direction. I am not, they see the reality of the issue. EVs won't work for a large part of our population. Getting trapped with a product that only part of the population will buy is going to sink some manufactures. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 10:59:57 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryNot to mention the strip mining for cobalt and other resources |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:02:34 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is going to really fuck with the heads of the people on here who hate both science and EVs. The sarcastic “trust the science” people. Rated long-time "science" cultist. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:04:01 AM EDT
[#37]
Global warming has never been about science or the environment. It's always been about crony capitalism.
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:06:53 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to mention the strip mining for cobalt and other resources Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to mention the strip mining for cobalt and other resources You're anti "strip mining"? Where the fuck do you think iron, coal, copper, etc comes from? You know, the elements/minerals that make a modern society possible..... |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:07:45 AM EDT
[#39]
They also have the UN Land Cruiser bare bones models. They make cars for different markets that want and need different things. It only makes sense. I’m sorry but there is not infrastructure for EVs everywhere, additionally, they cannot provide every role. Internal combustion engines will have their place for many decades to come.
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:10:36 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're anti "strip mining"? Where the fuck do you think iron, coal, copper, etc comes from? You know, the elements/minerals that make a modern society possible..... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not to mention the strip mining for cobalt and other resources You're anti "strip mining"? Where the fuck do you think iron, coal, copper, etc comes from? You know, the elements/minerals that make a modern society possible..... It's been fascinating to watch people's rabid hate of the Left, combined with their 100% association of EVs with a "Leftist agenda," lead to talking points straight out of the... Left. I get the feeling a lot of today's "super concerned about the hazards of mining lithium" crowd were posting about burning tires on Earth day just a decade ago. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:11:46 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i dont think that EV tractors COULD work at all. will run 16-24 hours a day on big farms, you cant charge a battery for 1.5 horus every 3 and keep that up. plus they would be HUGE batteries, (tractors use TONS of torque constantly) and dont brake so no regen cycle, and constant acceleration. basically it would be like doing quarter mile drags constantly) tesla's doing drag races get 50 out of a full charge, so in miles that is 12.5 MILES from a 300 mile battery. in tractor time that is more like hour plowing hour charging. or tow a giant trailer battery(weighs a TON, see what towing does for EV trucks). Some sort of hybrid tractor MAYBE but the nature of the work doesnt lend itself to usefulness in that application. Hybrids work great for incity due to teh regen braking , they store braking energy as acceleration energy so they get 60-70 city miles while only gettign 55 highway. The only way to move to BEV tractors is to go from a model of one BIG tractor to lots of small ones. See Monarch Tractor. Even there, you'll notice the distinct absence of sustained super high torque activities like plowing. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:12:39 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They also have the UN Land Cruiser bare bones models. They make cars for different markets that want and need different things. It only makes sense. I’m sorry but there is not infrastructure for EVs everywhere, additionally, they cannot provide every role. Internal combustion engines will have their place for many decades to come. I want a diesel Hilux. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:15:04 AM EDT
[#43]
Science is about conviction sometimes.
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:15:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The eco-nazis don't care about actual science. All that matters to them is "science" that confirms their beliefs, even if some of those beliefs are contradictory. They don't want you to own your own car. They want you to live in a pod, eat ze bugs, own nothing and preferably just die. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:17:31 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The eco-nazis don't care about actual science. All about the feels |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:20:02 AM EDT
[#46]
Toyota cant use science and diversity to justify going agains the narrative
Science and diversity can ONLY be used to promote the narrative…it’s science!!!! Diversity in energy sources=BAD Diversity in vehicle choice=BAD Science proving narrative wrong=NOT SCIENCE YOU BIGOT |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:20:59 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The eco-nazis don't care about actual science. All that matters to them is "science" that confirms their beliefs, even if some of those beliefs are contradictory. You nailed it. To those idiots Feels outweigh Facts |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:21:15 AM EDT
[#48]
I don't see my state ever compiling with an "electric only" mandate, but I'm sure the feds will effectively dictate such a mandate by shutting down the supply of gasoline & diesel.
If that happens, there will probably be some interesting times. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:25:26 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only way to move to BEV tractors is to go from a model of one BIG tractor to lots of small ones. See Monarch Tractor. Even there, you'll notice the distinct absence of sustained super high torque activities like plowing. You can always just plow your field with a mule or an ox! Problem solved! Let's return to the year 1500, when 90% of the world's population busted their ass to farm enough crops to (maybe) feed their family every winter. |
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Posted: 2/3/2023 11:26:23 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd rather go back to horses than EV tractors. EV Tractors will be so cost prohibitive I doubt most farmers could stay in business. I have no doubt this is the goal of many eco-nuts. The goal seems to be more about reducing food production at a time we should be finding ways to produce more food. I can see EVs in the cities but the further you get away from them the less they have a purpose. No, I don't advocate their use, period. The cities will become gigantic sink wells of Ozone pollution, a more dangerous eco problem. We are pushing a product but not even trying to build the grid network to support it. It is the typical approach of wackos. It is nothing but a patchwork of millions of bandaids. When it fails it will be stone age catastrophic. I grew up on a farm, with current tech, there is zero use case for an EV tractor in agriculture. Maybe some super small hobby farm stuff but nothing at any scale. In the construction industry, I've seen some of the big names coming out with EV mini excavators, skid steers...etc. Which probably has some market outside of the "green" push....like working inside structures where exhaust fumes could be an issue. I'm not in that industry, so I'm not sure how big that market actually is though. Like most things, there likely isn't a single answer to the problem. ICE certainly has advantages in areas (towing, long distance...etc), EV's work in other areas (short to medium commutes), Hybrids fall somewhere in the middle. |
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