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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:07:46 PM EDT
  https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/02/the-epa-and-white-house-take-fire-at-inefficient-new-mail-trucks/?amp=1 The United States Post Office's plan to replace its aging delivery vehicles has been heavily criticized by the Environmental Protection Agency and the White House Council on Environmental Quality. The letters, first published by The Washington Post on Tuesday, excoriate the decision to award a $482 million contract to Oshkosh Defense without properly examining the environmental impact, as required by law. Specifically, the EPA says that the USPS's required environmental impact report "does not disclose essential information underlying the key analysis of Total Cost of Ownership (TCO), underestimates greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, fails to consider more environmentally protective feasible alternatives, and inadequately considers impacts on communities with environmental justice concerns." Or, as the Chair of the CEQ wrote in a letter to Postmaster Louis DeJoy, his "agency committed to walk down a path before looking to see where the path was leading," in contravention of longstanding practices and laws. When the USPS first announced the contract with Oshkosh in February 2021, it said the plan was to purchase between 50,000 and 160,000 Next Generation Delivery Vehicles. These, we were told, would be a mixed fleet. Some battery-electric vehicles, others using "fuel-efficient internal combustion engines" with an ability to be converted at a later date, "to keep pace with advances in electric vehicle technology," it said. Within a few hours, expectations were significantly downgraded with the clarification that only 10 percent of the planned NGDVs would be electric, but the EPA says things are even worse than that. Oshkosh's proposed vehicle will only average 8.6 mpg (27.35 L/100 km) according to the EPA, a barely noticeable improvement on the current Grumman-made LLV trucks, which average 8.2 mpg (28.68 L/100 km). And there is no plan to convert any internal combustion-engined NGDVs to battery electric.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:12:14 PM EDT
[#1]
That is the ugliest deliverly vehicle ever.
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:12:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Do you want your mail or do you want your delivery vehicle sitting on a charger? That MPG number is low due to stops every 100 yards. That is a nice improvement and reduction in fuel cost
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:14:20 PM EDT
[#3]
I think it looks pretty good. More space for packages and a much better work area for the driver. It's not meant to be a show car, it is a purpose built work vehicle.
Kind of surprised the mileage is so low. Hopefully the tradeoff will be a reliable drivetrain. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:14:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Nothing moar ph*cked up that dawt.gub.
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:14:41 PM EDT
[#5]
My 71 Blazer on 44s got 8mpg.
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:15:27 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:16:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you want your mail or do you want your delivery vehicle sitting on a charger? That MPG number is low due to stops every 100 yards. That is a nice improvement and reduction in fuel cost Isn't that what hybrids are designed for? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:16:23 PM EDT
[#8]
From 10 whole minutes spent educating myself:
The current trucks get The new trucks carry more packages, have room to stand up and work in the back, have AC, etc. All that at 8.6 mpg, which is an improvement over the current vehicle. I bet if you figured out the 'fuel efficiency per delivered package', it'd look even better given that they carry more / less trips. Seems like a no brainer really. Libs mad because they're not EVs |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:16:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Why are defense companies the ones with the contracts?
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:17:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it looks pretty good. More space for packages and a much better work area for the driver. It's not meant to be a show car, it is a purpose built work vehicle. Kind of surprised the mileage is so low. Hopefully the tradeoff will be a reliable drivetrain. Consider the use. They are cinstant stop and go. I’d bet most gas engine vehicles driven like. A postal vehicle would be as bad. They also leave quickly… meaning ‘gas pedal to the floor’ when leaving some stops based on the road they are in and being able to get up to needed traffic speed. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:18:34 PM EDT
[#11]
That truck took quite a beating from the ugly stick
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:19:37 PM EDT
[#12]
My USPS driver literally floors it to get to the next house 100 feet away. Last week the damn thing burned up. That's probably where the bad MPG is coming from.
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:20:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Environmental justice
Fuck outta here |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:21:03 PM EDT
[#14]
then CAFE standards for the rest of us should be 8.6 MPG
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:21:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are defense companies the ones with the contracts? Better than government motors, right? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:21:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't that what hybrids are designed for? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do you want your mail or do you want your delivery vehicle sitting on a charger? That MPG number is low due to stops every 100 yards. That is a nice improvement and reduction in fuel cost Isn't that what hybrids are designed for? Yep, a hybrid would have been perfect for this application. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:21:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryA buddy in HS had one back in 1988-90. We'd drive around in it all the time. The slide door latch was broken on my side. For shits and giggles, I'd undo the safety wire holding it shut in stop-and-go traffic. Funny the shit that teens get a kick out of, but it was fun. 
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:21:39 PM EDT
[#18]
All they do is stop and start... but that's ugly AF
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:23:38 PM EDT
[#19]
I would think a mail truck would be a nearly ideal application for hybrid/electric/regen brakes.
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:24:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, a hybrid would have been perfect for this application. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Do you want your mail or do you want your delivery vehicle sitting on a charger? That MPG number is low due to stops every 100 yards. That is a nice improvement and reduction in fuel cost Isn't that what hybrids are designed for? Yep, a hybrid would have been perfect for this application. Correct. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:25:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Consider the use. They are cinstant stop and go. I’d bet most gas engine vehicles driven like. A postal vehicle would be as bad. They also leave quickly… meaning ‘gas pedal to the floor’ when leaving some stops based on the road they are in and being able to get up to needed traffic speed. This. I drove LLVs 5-6 days a week for almost a decade. Rarely did I ever leave neighborhood streets. Start-stop-start-start.... and yes, we drove 'em like we stole them. Fuel efficiency was never a consideration. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:27:25 PM EDT
[#22]
I'm cancelling my Ferrari SF90 order and picking one of these new USPS trucks up.
#pantydropperfosure |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:27:28 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it looks pretty good. More space for packages and a much better work area for the driver. It's not meant to be a show car, it is a purpose built work vehicle. Kind of surprised the mileage is so low. Hopefully the tradeoff will be a reliable drivetrain. Your typical mail truck of that size does a TON of stop and go driving, and a BUNCH of idling thrown in. Under those driving conditions, I would NOT expect fuel economy to be very good. Here in my area, the average mail truck drives about 1/4 mile, then stops for 15 minutes to offload mail into a mailbox cluster, and then repeats the same cycle in another 1/4 mile. In the more rural areas, the distance between mailbox stops may actually be SHORTER, with single boxes being spaced out 200 yards, and stops being only 2 minutes or so. Under those kind of driving cycles, what would a reasonable person expect? You want electric? Keep in mind that DOZENS of these machines would need to be recharged EVERY DAY to meet the drive cycles they would see. That's a pretty big investment in infrastructure at each Post Office, and it has to be there BEFORE the new trucks arrive. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:28:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From 10 whole minutes spent educating myself: The current trucks get The new trucks carry more packages, have room to stand up and work in the back, have AC, etc. All that at 8.6 mpg, which is an improvement over the current vehicle. I bet if you figured out the 'fuel efficiency per delivered package', it'd look even better given that they carry more / less trips. Seems like a no brainer really. Libs mad because they're not EVs I hope they go electric, can you imagine the sheer cost of that stupidity?! |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:30:27 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:30:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Do you want your mail or do you want your delivery vehicle sitting on a charger? That MPG number is low due to stops every 100 yards. That is a nice improvement and reduction in fuel cost Isn't that what hybrids are designed for? Yep, a hybrid would have been perfect for this application. Correct. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:32:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Last ones had a chevy s10 drive train in them. 2.2 4cyl and a stock transmission. Engines were fine but transmissions fried daily.
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:34:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 71 Blazer on 44s got 8mpg. While stopping and accelerating every 25 yards? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:34:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Do you want less mail delivery per day? Because that's how you get less mail delivery per day. Quoted: Isn't that what hybrids are designed for? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:36:53 PM EDT
[#30]
I get the constant stop-go-idle will lead to poor fuel economy, so whatever.
What can this do better than say an upfitted Ford Transit or Ram Cargomaster for the same role? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:40:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Perfect application for an electric vehicle. Known daily range....charge at night.
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:40:41 PM EDT
[#32]
If Daffy Duck's head had wheels.
Weird. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:43:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are defense companies the ones with the contracts? If you told a Ford VP your bid for a USPS mail vehicle would never make more than 6% profit and you'd have to open the business unit's books to a fiscal audit, you'd be fired for wasting his time. Defense contractors know how the game is played. Kharn |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:46:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Fuck, Take a US built Toyota Camry or Tacoma and put that box body on it. Fucking done!
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:48:22 PM EDT
[#35]
 Holy shit |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:48:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Bet your vehicle wouldn’t get that if you drove a standard mail delivery route.
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:49:18 PM EDT
[#37]
The fuck is that thing?
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:50:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you want less mail delivery per day? Because that's how you get less mail delivery per day. Didn't see hybrids listed; in other articles on the topic, the USPS has replied that it has a legal mandate to be self sufficient for funding, and cannot afford EV infrastructure on a wide scale basis. Though I would imagine the 10% EV will be utilized well in super dense urban areas with the charging infrastructure, leaving the better mail truck to make more deliveries per sortie, resulting in economic quantities of scale worth of efficiency. It's like the government tries to be as incompetent as possible though. So that tarded looking truck certainly fits. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:54:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Think of the savings - they won’t even need to hold a naming contest for the vehicle, because it names itself:
“Ugly McUglyFace” |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:55:25 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you want your mail or do you want your delivery vehicle sitting on a charger? That MPG number is low due to stops every 100 yards. That is a nice improvement and reduction in fuel cost Honestly, mail trucks are one of those things where an electric is going to be useful. Solar panel the top. Start/stop doesn't matter to Electric engines. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:57:16 PM EDT
[#41]
That has to be an expensive windshield.
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:58:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 71 Blazer on 44s got 8mpg. Did it have to stop and go every 20 feet also? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 4:59:40 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Perfect application for an electric vehicle. Known daily range....charge at night. Massive increase in infrastructure cost. And it has to be done before the trucks arrive |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:02:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My USPS driver literally floors it to get to the next house 100 feet away. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:06:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's why hybrids would have actually made sense. Let the torque of the electric motor do most of the work under hard acceleration and regenerative braking then a gas engine for long distance travel or when even more power is needed. No charging infrastructure needed. It's like the government tries to be as incompetent as possible though. So that tarded looking truck certainly fits. Yeah, hybrid seems ideal. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:07:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Knock the wheels off the damn thing and you have yourself a greenhouse
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:08:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there a hybrid drivetrain in commercial use? Not sure about that, but if there were an ideal application for one, this would be it. Joint venture with Amazon, et al? I mean, they’re all about environmental-social equity, right? |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:08:32 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistorySubcontractors in RH drive Wranglers around here. "Real" USPS trucks can't even drive down some of the roads, let alone get to mailboxes. |
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:09:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Designed by Homer Simpson.
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Posted: 2/6/2022 5:10:01 PM EDT
[#50]
That's quite an ugly looking piece of shit.
I can see an EV being more useful in that application though. |
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