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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:10:27 AM EST
Russia's best tanks are getting rekt hard, tank warfare is already changed forever just from the past 72 hours.  
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:19:07 AM EST
[#1]
I keep wondering why we are not seeing the same loitering munitions and suicide drone videos we saw during the Azeri/Armenian conflict.
Thought Turkey was all about selling Ukraine those sweet sweet Israeli weapons systems 
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:21:44 AM EST
[#2]
How well do modern AT weapons fare against the newest version of the M-1?
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:22:08 AM EST
[#3]
Is that some sort of reactive armor- those big white pillows?
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:25:39 AM EST
[#4]
Is that some kind of photo-shop, or are they really flying the Soviet flag?
As to reactive armor, that defensive armor system made its main battle field debut in 1990. That was 32 years ago. That's essentially the span of time between WW1 and WW2. Weapon systems have improved. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:26:25 AM EST
[#5]
Thats the second photo I've seen of Russian tanks flying the hammer and sickle.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:27:05 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that some kind of photo-shop, or are they really flying the Soviet flag? Seems to be real, bunch of videos showing it too
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:27:54 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems to be real, bunch of videos showing it too
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is that some kind of photo-shop, or are they really flying the Soviet flag? Seems to be real, bunch of videos showing it too
That's more than a little troubling - not that this has been a pleasant experience to begin with. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:29:09 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How well do modern AT weapons fare against the newest version of the M-1? I have no inside or specialized knowledge, but without an active kill countermeasure system, I have to assume pretty well. You can't put the good armor everywhere, and the new missiles go for the top. Maybe we'll be sporting roof racks soon, too. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:36:59 AM EST
[#9]
All the blocks on the outside of the armor were to defend against 80's anti-tank missiles, so we evolved and created the Javelin (which Ukraine is getting lots of) which does a top down attack, in response the Russians added a metal pagoda above the turret, this is (I think) the first test of the pagoda and so far it seems to be useless.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:37:05 AM EST
[#10]
CNN is showing live, a large Russian tank column driving by them.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:37:11 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have no inside or specialized knowledge, but without an active kill countermeasure system, I have to assume pretty well. You can't put the good armor everywhere, and the new missiles go for the top. Maybe we'll be sporting roof racks soon, too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How well do modern AT weapons fare against the newest version of the M-1? I have no inside or specialized knowledge, but without an active kill countermeasure system, I have to assume pretty well. You can't put the good armor everywhere, and the new missiles go for the top. Maybe we'll be sporting roof racks soon, too. I’ve seen a few photos of Russian tanks with “roof racks” that looked like welded angle iron slats about 2-3 feet above the turret, they were using them as cargo racks for rucks and such. If there is enough space between the explosively formed penetrator that a javelin (or other modern anti tank ) the penetrator could be dissipated and thus ineffective (slats on Strykers in Iraq had this) but javilins are pretty big compared to rpg7 and their charge would make much larger penetrator and more required stand-off. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:38:01 AM EST
[#12]
I thought the Egyptian front of the Yom Kippur War did that.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:39:24 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that some kind of photo-shop, or are they really flying the Soviet flag? As to reactive armor, that defensive armor system made its main battle field debut in 1990. That was 32 years ago. That's essentially the span of time between WW1 and WW2. Weapon systems have improved. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:40:50 AM EST
[#14]
https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-tactical/why-are-houthis-rebelling/
The M1A2 Abrams is arguably one of the best (if not the best) tank systems in the world today. It’s the main battle tank of the United States, along with several of its allies — including Saudi Arabia. The Kingdom deployed a number of the tanks in its intervention against Houthi rebels in Yemen. Saudi Arabia is not having the success they expected to have. It’s been three long years for the Saudi military and the coalition it’s leading to take on Iranian-backed Houthis in Yemen. Almost as soon as the Saudi “intervention” (aka “invasion”) of Yemen began, the Kingdom started asking U.S.-based contractor General Dynamics for upgrades to the tank. They also ordered replacements. A quick YouTube search will show you why. Houthi rebels posted a lot of these videos showing the M1A2 getting wrecked by simple anti-tank weapons. In the videos above, that weapon is Tosun anti-tank guided missiles, an Iranian-built variant of a the Soviet 9M113 Konkurs ATGM, which uses a trailing wire system to guide the projectile. At just 32 pounds, this Iranian ATGM can hit a Saudi M1A2 from two miles away. The current M1A2 defense system can’t really defend against this simple kind of attack. Reactive armor can help and there are M1 upgrades that could possibly further help, but complete, reliable 360-degree protection doesn’t exist in this family of tanks. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:42:32 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's more than a little troubling - not that this has been a pleasant experience to begin with. its probably some 20 year old kids that dont even know what it means but think its cool. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:42:56 AM EST
[#16]
I wonder if we are entering an era of warfare where tanks are completely useless and outgunned by man portable weapons.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:48:24 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-tactical/why-are-houthis-rebelling/ The M1A2 Abrams is arguably one of the best (if not the best) tank systems in the world today. It’s the main battle tank of the United States, along with several of its allies — including Saudi Arabia. The Kingdom deployed a number of the tanks in its intervention against Houthi rebels in Yemen. Saudi Arabia is not having the success they expected to have. It’s been three long years for the Saudi military and the coalition it’s leading to take on Iranian-backed Houthis in Yemen. Almost as soon as the Saudi “intervention” (aka “invasion”) of Yemen began, the Kingdom started asking U.S.-based contractor General Dynamics for upgrades to the tank. They also ordered replacements. A quick YouTube search will show you why. Houthi rebels posted a lot of these videos showing the M1A2 getting wrecked by simple anti-tank weapons. In the videos above, that weapon is Tosun anti-tank guided missiles, an Iranian-built variant of a the Soviet 9M113 Konkurs ATGM, which uses a trailing wire system to guide the projectile. At just 32 pounds, this Iranian ATGM can hit a Saudi M1A2 from two miles away. The current M1A2 defense system can’t really defend against this simple kind of attack. Reactive armor can help and there are M1 upgrades that could possibly further help, but complete, reliable 360-degree protection doesn’t exist in this family of tanks. I thought the Saudis were sold the monkey version that is is without the same armor protection the US tanks have. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:52:11 AM EST
[#18]
360 defense has never existed for any tank. Wire guided missiles have been around forever. Russian Sagers are still abundant. Tanks real armor is on the front. Any tanker knows "keep your front to the enemy" and you will survive hits. If Saudi tanks are being taken out by wire-guided missiles the tanks are getting hit from the side or rear engine compartment, not a head on hit. i hate to say it, but all tanks are more vulnerable today. Tanks can still excel when on the move in open space when they can engage from a distance. In urban areas, they are very vulnerable.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:56:03 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that some kind of photo-shop, or are they really flying the Soviet flag? As to reactive armor, that defensive armor system made its main battle field debut in 1990. That was 32 years ago. That's essentially the span of time between WW1 and WW2. Weapon systems have improved. Putin ran a very successful Soviet nostalgia campaign in Ukraine to recruit commie antifa types away from the Maidan movement. Lots of old style soviet imagery to say “we’re the original commies”. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:56:13 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I keep wondering why we are not seeing the same loitering munitions and suicide drone videos we saw during the Azeri/Armenian conflict. Thought Turkey was all about selling Ukraine those sweet sweet Israeli weapons systems That's a good point. The Russians had supposedly done a great job of integrating UAS with their fire support assets for targeting. However in this conflict I haven't heard much about their use by either side, which is surprising. It could be that the Russian fire support assets the UAS would target for aren't in range, but it doesn't account for the lack of Ukrainian usage. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:56:36 AM EST
[#21]
That Russian tank flying that USSR flag is like the Confederate flags on US vehicles you used to see. Just the crews fucking around, don’t mean neither fuck nor all.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 12:57:59 AM EST
[#22]
The drone wars have begun they have.
Any military asset not in the air or underground will see a shorter and shorter lifespan as we progress. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:41:04 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the Egyptian front of the Yom Kippur War did that. 
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:41:36 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder if we are entering an era of warfare where tanks are completely useless and outgunned by man portable weapons. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:46:31 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wonder if we are entering an era of warfare where tanks are completely useless and outgunned by man portable weapons. At one time Chobham armor was all the rage but with time, weapons were developed to thwart it. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:49:20 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How well do modern AT weapons fare against the newest version of the M-1? Not well on the ones with APS |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:52:10 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats the second photo I've seen of Russian tanks flying the hammer and sickle. Pretty sure you can find those flags in DC. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:55:15 AM EST
[#28]
I imagine it will shift policy.
We have seen that a huge impact can be made with javelins and stingers. No reason to get ourselves involved in disputes, just keep a few c 17s full of em ready to go. The next gen of antitank and anti air must be user friendly, and by “user” I mean an uneducated person in a foreign country. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:56:29 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's more than a little troubling - not that this has been a pleasant experience to begin with. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is that some kind of photo-shop, or are they really flying the Soviet flag? Seems to be real, bunch of videos showing it too
That's more than a little troubling - not that this has been a pleasant experience to begin with. Could just be that crew. We absolutely had guys flying rebel flags, the Jolly Roger and the Betsy Ross flag going into Iraq. Those kids might just be hyped up on “red army” koolaid. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:56:58 AM EST
[#30]
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Posted: 2/27/2022 7:57:23 AM EST
[#31]
This shows Russia is an overrated shit military, they just have a lot of people they're willing to lose.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:02:43 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This shows Russia is an overrated shit military, they just have a lot of people they're willing to lose. Wrong. Putin so far has exercised some control. He's making the same mistakes that the US has since Vietnam. Either go all out or don't go at all. Kid glove diplomacy approaches don't work. When they've had enough of that shit, Putin is going to allow his forces to steamroll them. Especially as Ukraine won't bargain with them. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:04:11 AM EST
[#33]
Lebanon 2006.
Technology seems to have swung in favor of the defense. Anthony Shadid reported that Hezbullah fighters claimed to have hit and damaged up to a dozen Israeli tanks outside al-Khiyam. The 366th Division does not seem to have resumed offensive action for the duration of the war and never completed the missions assigned to it.[25] Uri Bar-Yosef described the two-day stand-off as "one of the most humiliating operations in the history of the Israel Defense Forces." A two-day stand-off between an Israeli armored division and an “handful of Hezbollah fighters”.[26] A few months after the war Brig.-Gen. Erez Zuckerman told the IDF Chief of Staff "I have failed, and I resign." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Change_of_Direction_11 |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:06:26 AM EST
[#34]
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:12:45 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems to be real, bunch of videos showing it too
For fucks sake. If anything a fired up tank crew, who likes decorating their own thing. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:13:08 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. Putin so far has exercised some control. He's making the same mistakes that the US has since Vietnam. Either go all out or don't go at all. Kid glove diplomacy approaches don't work. When they've had enough of that shit, Putin is going to allow his forces to steamroll them. Especially as Ukraine won't bargain with them. I agree. My instinct is that his messaging was supposed to be one of a small, regional domestic dispute on his border. The initial plans were to maintain infrastructure with minimal civilian and Ukrainian military deaths . Their resilience is now causing the Russian planners to examine the other COAs that were worked up and adjust tactical actions. The only thing, right now, that's going to stop Russia from steam rolling Ukraine is decisive action from the West and I just don't see that as happenings. Candidly the West is to blame for what's happening there anyways. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:22:22 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree. My instinct is that his messaging was supposed to be one of a small, regional domestic dispute on his border. The initial plans were to maintain infrastructure with minimal civilian and Ukrainian military deaths . Their resilience is now causing the Russian planners to examine the other COAs that were worked up and adjust tactical actions. The only thing, right now, that's going to stop Russia from steam rolling Ukraine is decisive action from the West and I just don't see that as happenings. Candidly the West is to blame for what's happening there anyways. Yes. Putin wants the Ukrainians to overthrow the government themselves. Now that it won't happen, hes going to go through the motion of negotiations. And when they lead to nothing, then will go all out. As far as the west is concerned, the first pilot shot down gets put in a cage and lit if Putin plays it right. Their meddling and globalists bullshit is not leading to freedom anywhere they are. Only cultural decay and rot and economic strife. I consider the west the new evil empire. Full of cult like members who think sacrificing themselves at the alter of cultural Marxism is a virtue. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:46:02 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. Putin so far has exercised some control. He's making the same mistakes that the US has since Vietnam. Either go all out or don't go at all. Kid glove diplomacy approaches don't work. When they've had enough of that shit, Putin is going to allow his forces to steamroll them. Especially as Ukraine won't bargain with them. Putin is making the same mistake for a different reason. Russia's GDP is about the same size as Florida's. He can't afford to go all in the way the US could because he doesn't have the money. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:50:31 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putin is making the same mistake for a different reason. Russia's GDP is about the same size as Florida's. He can't afford to go all in the way the US could because he doesn't have the money. He has the stand off weapons to do it with. Right now he's gauging the reaction of the west. And since the west is funneling in weapons to Ukraine, he'll conclude he has no reasons to not use them. Don't think that he won't be financed and armed by China if need be. China is going to do what it takes to make sure any western interference is rebutted. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:52:00 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putin ran a very successful Soviet nostalgia campaign in Ukraine to recruit commie antifa types away from the Maidan movement. Lots of old style soviet imagery to say “we’re the original commies”. Kind of like kerfuffle over "New Coke" Vs. "Old Coke"... Everyone just loves the Nostalgia for the "Original" ... Putin knows this so he's going with the marketing slogan... "Commie Classic" ®  Because Russians know, there ain't no Party, like a Commie Party... Disagree?? Go straight to Lubyanka basement for execution or if Putin is feeling generous, perhaps 10 years in Siberian Gulag!!  BIGGER_HAMMER 
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:55:07 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That Russian tank flying that USSR flag is like the Confederate flags on US vehicles you used to see. Just the crews fucking around, don’t mean neither fuck nor all. This. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:55:20 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems to be real, bunch of videos showing it too
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is that some kind of photo-shop, or are they really flying the Soviet flag? Seems to be real, bunch of videos showing it too
While Putin's ambitions have been transparent for years, that tank with the flag is just the crew fucking around. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:55:23 AM EST
[#43]
Im not pro russian
But if they are saying thats the same tank....its not...barrel camo vs non barrel camo Also...these arent their...best..tanks From the looks of it...putin sent in his 3rd teamers knowing they would have higher losses but accomplish the goal |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 8:57:50 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That Russian tank flying that USSR flag is like the Confederate flags on US vehicles you used to see. Just the crews fucking around, don’t mean neither fuck nor all. This. Ain't it funny how it triggers them like the Stars and Bars triggers the communists here? |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:00:04 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure you can find those flags in DC. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thats the second photo I've seen of Russian tanks flying the hammer and sickle. Pretty sure you can find those flags in DC. Both Biden’s and Obama’s spokesperson displayed Soviet imagery. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:08:53 AM EST
[#46]
That’s not the same tank.
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:12:01 AM EST
[#47]
It’s showing how inferior Russian armor and tactics are. Maybe.
Declaring the MBT dead over this is a little hysteric. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:12:39 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the Saudis were sold the monkey version that is is without the same armor protection the US tanks have. I wish people would stop repeating that bullshit monkey model line… After Desert Storm, we turned our tanks over to the Saudis. They were M1A1 and M1A1 Heavies. |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:15:19 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That Russian tank flying that USSR flag is like the Confederate flags on US vehicles you used to see. Just the crews fucking around, don’t mean neither fuck nor all. This |
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Posted: 2/27/2022 9:20:07 AM EST
[#50]
Tanks have been obsolete overpriced logistical nightmares for a while now. It's the strategic equivalent of a fat redneck who uses a monster truck for beer runs. Maybe our own leadership will take notes,... but I doubt it.
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