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Posted: 10/10/2018 1:03:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's Wall Street chasing the lowest possible operating ratio at the expense of everything else. CEO's adopt "precision BS railroading" or are forced out by "activist investors / hedge funds" who install Hunter Harrison clones. The railroads get gutted, customers get driven off and safety goes out the window, but the stock price goes up. At that point the "activist investors" cut and run, leaving the carcass to rot. I now work for a privately-owned regional mining company. The culture difference is enormous. |
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Posted: 10/10/2018 2:07:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
RR's are arrogant beasts... There is a natural spring encroaching on the mainline near the Salton Sea, UP evidently decided a giant steel plate would divert the water from the tracks....they got a giant sinkhole the other day instead.... RR's are so used to thumbing their nose at everyone that they tried it with Mother Nature......but in the end she has the ultimate eminent domain trump card... Stopped all traffic for about 12-16 hours until the could get a shoefly in place.... Also, I was in Cheyenne 2 weeks ago. Met some crews when I went to discuss bid'ness with the bosses at the Steam Shop. I did notice that downgrade while I was on I80 coming from SLC. Just about every Mixed freight I saw had DPUs, wonder why this one didnt. I wonder if DPUs would have made a difference. |
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Posted: 10/10/2018 6:33:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was out there about 3 weeks ago. Didnt get to spend much time around the Salton Sea, but I gotta go back. I did notice an autorack train I chased had all highballs until just north of Niland. Then it got restrictive speed through the next two blocks, then highballs after that. Was that Wister? Also, I was in Cheyenne 2 weeks ago. Met some crews when I went to discuss bid'ness with the bosses at the Steam Shop. I did notice that downgrade while I was on I80 coming from SLC. Just about every Mixed freight I saw had DPUs, wonder why this one didnt. I wonder if DPUs would have made a difference. If there turns out to be something like a brake valve on one of the pickup cars being turned this will be like one of the Cajon Pass accidents back in the late 1980s/early 1990s. IIRC there were criminal investigations and as result Santa Fe turned the Cajon summit area into a fenced-in compound with guards to prevent people from getting near trains that had stopped there. Riders were jumping on board trains there and brake valves got turned on several trains by vandals or people looking to cause emergency stops in locations down the pass where they could get better access to cars for break-ins. So sad that the ones who got caught learned the hard way that it was considered "robbing a mail train" and was a federal offence, since almost all the trains had trailers full of second and third class mail on board. |
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Posted: 10/10/2018 7:17:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If there was a brake line obstruction or closed brake valve which prevented the train's brakes from fully setting, having a DPU would have helped control the train via the dynamics as well as the ability to "relay" brake control inputs to the rear of the train via the DPU locomotives. If there turns out to be something like a brake valve on one of the pickup cars being turned this will be like one of the Cajon Pass accidents back in the late 1980s/early 1990s. IIRC there were criminal investigations and as result Santa Fe turned the Cajon summit area into a fenced-in compound with guards to prevent people from getting near trains that had stopped there. Riders were jumping on board trains there and brake valves got turned on several trains by vandals or people looking to cause emergency stops in locations down the pass where they could get better access to cars for break-ins. So sad that the ones who got caught learned the hard way that it was considered "robbing a mail train" and was a federal offence, since almost all the trains had trailers full of second and third class mail on board. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was out there about 3 weeks ago. Didnt get to spend much time around the Salton Sea, but I gotta go back. I did notice an autorack train I chased had all highballs until just north of Niland. Then it got restrictive speed through the next two blocks, then highballs after that. Was that Wister? Also, I was in Cheyenne 2 weeks ago. Met some crews when I went to discuss bid'ness with the bosses at the Steam Shop. I did notice that downgrade while I was on I80 coming from SLC. Just about every Mixed freight I saw had DPUs, wonder why this one didnt. I wonder if DPUs would have made a difference. If there turns out to be something like a brake valve on one of the pickup cars being turned this will be like one of the Cajon Pass accidents back in the late 1980s/early 1990s. IIRC there were criminal investigations and as result Santa Fe turned the Cajon summit area into a fenced-in compound with guards to prevent people from getting near trains that had stopped there. Riders were jumping on board trains there and brake valves got turned on several trains by vandals or people looking to cause emergency stops in locations down the pass where they could get better access to cars for break-ins. So sad that the ones who got caught learned the hard way that it was considered "robbing a mail train" and was a federal offence, since almost all the trains had trailers full of second and third class mail on board. 
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Posted: 10/10/2018 8:19:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was out there about 3 weeks ago. Didnt get to spend much time around the Salton Sea, but I gotta go back. I did notice an autorack train I chased had all highballs until just north of Niland. Then it got restrictive speed through the next two blocks, then highballs after that. Was that Wister? Also, I was in Cheyenne 2 weeks ago. Met some crews when I went to discuss bid'ness with the bosses at the Steam Shop. I did notice that downgrade while I was on I80 coming from SLC. Just about every Mixed freight I saw had DPUs, wonder why this one didnt. I wonder if DPUs would have made a difference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
RR's are arrogant beasts... There is a natural spring encroaching on the mainline near the Salton Sea, UP evidently decided a giant steel plate would divert the water from the tracks....they got a giant sinkhole the other day instead.... RR's are so used to thumbing their nose at everyone that they tried it with Mother Nature......but in the end she has the ultimate eminent domain trump card... Stopped all traffic for about 12-16 hours until the could get a shoefly in place.... Also, I was in Cheyenne 2 weeks ago. Met some crews when I went to discuss bid'ness with the bosses at the Steam Shop. I did notice that downgrade while I was on I80 coming from SLC. Just about every Mixed freight I saw had DPUs, wonder why this one didnt. I wonder if DPUs would have made a difference. |
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Posted: 10/10/2018 8:30:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All EOTs nowadays have emergency capabilities. Just flip a switch and it dumps the air from the rear. Even if there's an obstruction in the air line, the engineer can still put it into emergency by flipping the switch. Maybe during the panic the engineer in this incident forgot to flip it. I'm not sure. http://www.vnerrforums.com/forums/files/DSC05420s.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: All EOTs nowadays have emergency capabilities. Just flip a switch and it dumps the air from the rear. Even if there's an obstruction in the air line, the engineer can still put it into emergency by flipping the switch. Maybe during the panic the engineer in this incident forgot to flip it. I'm not sure. http://www.vnerrforums.com/forums/files/DSC05420s.jpg a quick search turned this up....any thoughts on the below statement from the hoggers here? Freight train air brakes require a minimum brake pipe pressure of 45 psi in order to get an emergency brake response from the emergency portion of the freight car control valve. The emergency spool valve in this portion must have 45 psi in its' cavity in order to force the emergency spool valve open against normal valve friction and the return spring force. If the pressure is below 45 psi you will not get an emergency response. If you go on the WABTEC web site you will find a safety advisory from the manufacturer about this issue in their techdocs section. There have also been several train accidents investigated by the NTSB and Canada's TSB where emergency brake response with low brake pipe pressure or low state of charge conditions has been a factor. That's how it works in real life at any rate. You can piss your air away to the point where the emergency brakes don't work despite having air in the brake pipe. It's not what you have at the brake pipe gauge on the locomotive that counts, it is the state of charge or brake pipe pressure at the car. I have actually seen conditions where the emergency worked on the front portion of the train but did not apply at the rear because of the severe difference in brake pipe pressure from front to rear in transient high demand situations in cycle braking descending heavy grades. The heavier the brake application, the greater the loss in the margin of control. Cycle braking on grades accentuates this tendency. |
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Posted: 10/10/2018 8:43:18 PM EDT
[#7]
If there was an obstruction in the train line, the DPU unit would've sensed it and wouldn't have passed an air test. Doesn't matter now as we know all the power was on the head end.
As for FRED, if the engineer wasn't paying attention to the head end device to see that the air went to the rear, that would've just added to the mess. Time will tell what happened at the yard when they did the pick up of the cars. If they did a proper air test on the cars and a set & release of the entire train when they got it all together. Fuck the managers, they can bitch and moan about their departure times all they want. I'm not leaving a yard if the train has issues, especially if those issues are with the air! Working out of L.A. and having to deal with Cajon Pass or Beaumont, I know what's going to happen if things go wrong on either hill. I know people that have died on both and the number one reason is losing their air. When those heavy trains have issues, it's better to stop and fix it then die because a manager wants his bonus. |
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Posted: 10/10/2018 8:48:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Juan,
Yeah, you need 45 psi minimum on the rear to initiate an emergency. Just like you need 75 minimum to do an air test on the train. Just imagine how long it would take to recover from an emergency application and then start charging the train line up to 45 psi. Think how far your train would travel and how much speed it would pick up while you were trying to do all of this... |
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Posted: 10/10/2018 8:51:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Juan, Yeah, you need 45 psi minimum on the rear to initiate an emergency. Just like you need 75 minimum to do an air test on the train. Just imagine how long it would take to recover from an emergency application and then start charging the train line up to 45 psi. Think how far your train would travel and how much speed it would pick up while you were trying to do all of this... |
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Posted: 10/10/2018 9:43:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm pretty sure there needs to be a certain PSI in the break pipe to initiate the cars emergency valve and plug the train.... a quick search turned this up....any thoughts on the below statement from the hoggers here? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: All EOTs nowadays have emergency capabilities. Just flip a switch and it dumps the air from the rear. Even if there's an obstruction in the air line, the engineer can still put it into emergency by flipping the switch. Maybe during the panic the engineer in this incident forgot to flip it. I'm not sure. http://www.vnerrforums.com/forums/files/DSC05420s.jpg a quick search turned this up....any thoughts on the below statement from the hoggers here? Freight train air brakes require a minimum brake pipe pressure of 45 psi in order to get an emergency brake response from the emergency portion of the freight car control valve. The emergency spool valve in this portion must have 45 psi in its' cavity in order to force the emergency spool valve open against normal valve friction and the return spring force. If the pressure is below 45 psi you will not get an emergency response. If you go on the WABTEC web site you will find a safety advisory from the manufacturer about this issue in their techdocs section. There have also been several train accidents investigated by the NTSB and Canada's TSB where emergency brake response with low brake pipe pressure or low state of charge conditions has been a factor. That's how it works in real life at any rate. You can piss your air away to the point where the emergency brakes don't work despite having air in the brake pipe. It's not what you have at the brake pipe gauge on the locomotive that counts, it is the state of charge or brake pipe pressure at the car. I have actually seen conditions where the emergency worked on the front portion of the train but did not apply at the rear because of the severe difference in brake pipe pressure from front to rear in transient high demand situations in cycle braking descending heavy grades. The heavier the brake application, the greater the loss in the margin of control. Cycle braking on grades accentuates this tendency. |
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