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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:15:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The timing might suck but Lee was a traitor and a loser. Good riddance. Oh, and FUCK THE CONFEDERACY Your trollery is both weak and late. We have already had far better attempts in this thread. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:16:48 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:17:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was inevitable. They already got rid of Lee-Jackson day this year. Maybe they can put up a statue of Black Panther and Hillary Clinton making out or something. be real everybody knows Hillary only likes women. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:18:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The timing might suck but Lee was a traitor and a loser. Good riddance. Oh, and FUCK THE CONFEDERACY Your attitude dooms us to historical repetition...but hey, you live your truth.  |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:19:35 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:20:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure why we have monuments to traitors anyway. Put them in a museum. Since you are ignorant of history, I'll set you straight. People then didn't ally themselves to the notion of a country in the sense that many do today. Perhaps you've heard it described as these united states and not the United States. They considered themselves Virginians, Georgians, etc. first. Lee was a patriot of the highest caliber. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:23:11 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:23:38 PM EDT
[#8]
King Northup has spoken.
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:26:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since you are ignorant of history, I'll set you straight. People then didn't ally themselves to the notion of a country in the sense that many do today. Perhaps you've heard it described as these united states and not the United States. They considered themselves Virginians, Georgians, etc. first. Lee was a patriot of the highest caliber. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not sure why we have monuments to traitors anyway. Put them in a museum. Since you are ignorant of history, I'll set you straight. People then didn't ally themselves to the notion of a country in the sense that many do today. Perhaps you've heard it described as these united states and not the United States. They considered themselves Virginians, Georgians, etc. first. Lee was a patriot of the highest caliber. Key word being "united." Articles of Confederation: The Stile of this Confederacy shall be "The United States of America". Lee's Commissioning Oath: ...that I will bear true allegiance to the United States of America, and that I will serve them honestly and faithfully against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:29:46 PM EDT
[#10]
A statue of this moment in history should take it’s place.
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:30:36 PM EDT
[#11]
I assume that we not only have Confederate States haters but gun haters also on this forum. Because if you support the Imperial Wizard Northam's removal of the statue you must also support his anti-gun efforts.
You can't have it both ways, because he's a communist who wants to destroy the country, but does not have the balls to propose secession. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:34:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since you are ignorant of history, I'll set you straight. People then didn't ally themselves to the notion of a country in the sense that many do today. Perhaps you've heard it described as these united states and not the United States. They considered themselves Virginians, Georgians, etc. first. Lee was a patriot of the highest caliber. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not sure why we have monuments to traitors anyway. Put them in a museum. Since you are ignorant of history, I'll set you straight. People then didn't ally themselves to the notion of a country in the sense that many do today. Perhaps you've heard it described as these united states and not the United States. They considered themselves Virginians, Georgians, etc. first. Lee was a patriot of the highest caliber. Pure bullshit. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:36:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He went to VMI Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Didn't that picture of .gov blackface come from his days at W&L? Tell me how an alumnus of Washington and Lee University can do this? This man has a black heart. To remove a statue of one of the greatest American soldiers and son of Virginia who ever lived is disgusting. He went to VMI ETA - What a runny cunt that creature is. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:38:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The timing might suck but Lee was a traitor and a loser. Good riddance. Oh, and FUCK THE CONFEDERACY Fuck leftist trolls. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:38:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered,... they'll burn those books |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:40:44 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:42:44 PM EDT
[#17]
I wonder what it would be like to live in some place like Nebraska, with comparatively little baggage and history, a town that didn't even exist in 1890, let alone 1860. I like to think it is kind of a clean feeling to be not so burdened by the past, but I don't really know. Never lived anywhere except central Virginia.
This city with the monuments has been wounded and gut-shot since its inception in 1737. The racial hatred on both sides stains the ground fifty feet deep and there are thousands of graves all around us of men who chose up sides and died young because of it. Bad feelings, bad blood, bad deeds and bad memories. Richmond, Virginia is all fucked up, and I, for one, am tired of it. I want out. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:44:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I assume that we not only have Confederate States haters but gun haters also on this forum. Because if you support the Imperial Wizard Northam's removal of the statue you must also support his anti-gun efforts. You can't have it both ways, because he's a communist who wants to destroy the country, but does not have the balls to propose secession. He could be a genuine Extraterrestrial with a public plan to ship all humans off-planet for a food source, and it wouldn't change the hilariously emotional connection some make here to their Lost Cause heroes and the understandable issue others have with it. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 9:52:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Key word being "united." Articles of Confederation: Lee's Commissioning Oath: I dare say your opinion of Lee is worth much, much less than Eisenhower's. https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2011/julyaugust/feature/how-did-robert-e-lee-become-american-icon After President Dwight D. Eisenhower revealed on national television that one of the four “great Americans” whose pictures hung in his office was none other than Robert E. Lee, a thoroughly perplexed New York dentist reminded him that Lee had devoted “his best efforts to the destruction of the United States government” and confessed that since he could not see “how any American can include Robert E. Lee as a person to be emulated, why the President of the United States of America should do so is certainly beyond me.” Eisenhower replied personally and without hesitation, explaining that Lee was, “in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. . . . selfless almost to a fault . . . noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history. From deep conviction I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s caliber would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities . . . we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained.” |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:01:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dare say your opinion of Lee is worth much, much less than Eisenhower's. https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2011/julyaugust/feature/how-did-robert-e-lee-become-american-icon After President Dwight D. Eisenhower revealed on national television that one of the four “great Americans” whose pictures hung in his office was none other than Robert E. Lee, a thoroughly perplexed New York dentist reminded him that Lee had devoted “his best efforts to the destruction of the United States government” and confessed that since he could not see “how any American can include Robert E. Lee as a person to be emulated, why the President of the United States of America should do so is certainly beyond me.” Eisenhower replied personally and without hesitation, explaining that Lee was, “in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. . . . selfless almost to a fault . . . noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history. From deep conviction I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s caliber would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities . . . we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained.” Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Key word being "united." Articles of Confederation: Lee's Commissioning Oath: I dare say your opinion of Lee is worth much, much less than Eisenhower's. https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2011/julyaugust/feature/how-did-robert-e-lee-become-american-icon After President Dwight D. Eisenhower revealed on national television that one of the four “great Americans” whose pictures hung in his office was none other than Robert E. Lee, a thoroughly perplexed New York dentist reminded him that Lee had devoted “his best efforts to the destruction of the United States government” and confessed that since he could not see “how any American can include Robert E. Lee as a person to be emulated, why the President of the United States of America should do so is certainly beyond me.” Eisenhower replied personally and without hesitation, explaining that Lee was, “in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. . . . selfless almost to a fault . . . noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history. From deep conviction I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s caliber would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities . . . we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained.” When did I express a negative opinion of Lee? I have a far higher opinion of Lee than I do most of those who use him as a proper for their particular world view in this modern era. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:01:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Send them to me. I've the land to display them.
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:02:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: be real everybody knows Hillary only likes women. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It was inevitable. They already got rid of Lee-Jackson day this year. Maybe they can put up a statue of Black Panther and Hillary Clinton making out or something. be real everybody knows Hillary only likes women. Hillary has also shown a willingness to get with any many who she thinks will advance her one political ambitions. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:05:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Key word being "united." Articles of Confederation: Lee's Commissioning Oath: https://imgur.com/a/cFSttqE This is an article I found from a Utica, NY newspaper in the 1830s regarding the Cherokee crisis in Georgia. The Articles are not the law of the land. Had the ratifying states believed they were locked into this forever without recourse there is no way in hell they would have ratified the Constitution. Jefferson expressed doubt in the viability of the project in the 1790s and pondered that it may be better to leave. Lee resigned his commission. Would you wage war against your home on behalf of Washington DC? |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:11:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Articles are not the law of the land. And Lee resigned his commission. Would you wage war against your home on behalf of Washington DC? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Key word being "united." Articles of Confederation: Lee's Commissioning Oath: The Articles are not the law of the land. And Lee resigned his commission. Would you wage war against your home on behalf of Washington DC? The word "the" in those two quoted documents was the point. The use of the article "the" as the official name for the country started with the Articles of Confederation, was simply maintained by the later Constitution, and was clearly used afterward in official documents, such as that oath. Claims to the contrary are just one of hundreds of elements of the incessant bullshit infesting the Lost Cause narrative, popular use in region to region notwithstanding. The legal name of the country Is and was "The" United States of America. I would not personally join a movement whose leaders had publicly stated it was all about rejecting the principles of the Declaration of Independence and maintaining a perpetual slave society. But, as I said in my first post, Lee went with the choice Richmond went with, and because Richmond went with it. He made a soldier's decision, not a politician's. For some reason, lots of people who are more committed to Richmond's choice than Lee's, have used Lee's decision as almost some sort of justification for that of the politicians in Richmond. I guess whatever it takes to actually admit what that choice meant. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:16:37 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryBump |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:19:49 PM EDT
[#26]
I may have underestimated Governor blackface.
If this thread is any indication, he's going to cause a lot of people to show their true colors on many issues. The Civil War and defense of the Confederate cause is not the hill for the modern conservative cause to die on. But some of you can't help yourselves. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:23:12 PM EDT
[#27]
This is horseshit.
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:32:17 PM EDT
[#28]
The Constitution doesnt mention secession so as per the 10th amendment it's up to the states do decide. They left in 1860-1861 and we readmitted between 1866-1870.
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:34:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I may have underestimated Governor blackface. If this thread is any indication, he's going to cause a lot of people to show their true colors on many issues. The Civil War and defense of the Confederate cause is not the hill for the modern conservative cause to die on. But some of you can't help yourselves. We do not have conservatives in this country despite people calling themselves such. There is nothing in the Republican Party that bears any sort of resemblence to the writings of Edmund Burke, Russell Kirk, GK Chesterton, Roger Scruton. Its just some weird twisted economic nationalism. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:34:51 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:35:10 PM EDT
[#31]
The Frank Rizzo statue in Phillie will be no more.
Here we have a Democrat, Yankee mayor. Can we at least agree this is a good thing? https://www.npr.org/2020/06/03/868848550/frank-rizzo-statue-is-removed-in-philadelphia-it-is-finally-gone-mayor-says |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:35:13 PM EDT
[#32]
we should relocate it in his fucking front yard
again why ca I not personally file charges of sedeition & treason against these fuck offs . |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:55:41 PM EDT
[#33]
A whole lot of virtue signalling Karens in this thread! Sheep that are pieces of shit that try make themselves special by association. Many blindly follow the whims of the day, forcing their rules on others and lacking the intelligence and intestinal fortitude to allow others to live their lives by their convictions and beliefs. They know nothing but what they have been force fed all their lives and can't imagine anyone thinking or believing any way but like them. They seek to destroy anything that differs from their narrow view. Most, if not all democrats are like this.
I could care less what you believe. This is America. You can believe anything you wish. Just don't break the law or interfere with my belief system. The end does not justify the means. Removing statues monuments and is against the law, Just because you feel you are above the law doesn't make it right. This will surely inflame more division in our country. Edited to add: I'm sure I will be flamed for not going along with the "consensus." That's okay. I have my "big boy pants on." Thugs have perverted the BLM movement to one of divisiveness and violence. Often they are as bad or worse than the "klan." Incidentally in all my 65 years on this earth I have ever to meet one of these mythical creatures. I'm not saying they don't exist. I just don't think we have the terrible race problem the left says we do. Most people here in Johnson City seem to get along. It's the outsiders that stir crap up here. (Strangely, most of them come down 81 from the north.  )
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Posted: 6/3/2020 10:59:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Guess we need to mount statues on quick-disconnect mounts from now on so they can be removed, easier.
We can remove statues but we can't erase history. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:03:54 PM EDT
[#35]
The democrats really are Hitler.
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:10:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Sure, lets erase a little more America history. The reality is if they stay up the American hating leftist scum will either tear them down or deface them.
Perhaps we should remove the entire section about the Civil War is school history books just in case it triggers anyone. Everyday America dies a little more at the hand of these leftists. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:13:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if we erase all the history of slavery and the civil war, does that mean we can deny they ever happened? You might be onto something. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:13:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Frank Rizzo statue in Phillie will be no more. Here we have a Democrat, Yankee mayor. Can we at least agree this is a good thing? https://www.npr.org/2020/06/03/868848550/frank-rizzo-statue-is-removed-in-philadelphia-it-is-finally-gone-mayor-says That guy sounds like he was a real piece of shit. Good riddance? |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:16:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: good, seditionists and traitors shouldn't have monuments. Never go full retard |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:17:22 PM EDT
[#40]
What will they remove next time when the statues are gone?
I am a proud descendent of a Confederate soldier and I wish the South would have won. I would have gladly served the CSA had I been alive then. Everything, and I mean everything that I believe in is under attack by someone from the Left. Virginia, how did you allow yourselves to be overrun with progressive Yankees? I weep for you and I fear North Carolina is next. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:18:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That guy sounds like he was a real piece of shit. Good riddance? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Frank Rizzo statue in Phillie will be no more. Here we have a Democrat, Yankee mayor. Can we at least agree this is a good thing? https://www.npr.org/2020/06/03/868848550/frank-rizzo-statue-is-removed-in-philadelphia-it-is-finally-gone-mayor-says  That guy sounds like he was a real piece of shit. Good riddance? I sure think so. But, maybe that makes me ISIS or something? |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:20:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, lets erase a little more America history. The reality is if they stay up the American hating leftist scum will either tear them down or deface them. Perhaps we should remove the entire section about the Civil War is school history books just in case it triggers anyone. Everyday America dies a little more at the hand of these leftists. The Civil War triggers a lot of people. Oddly, by some of the same ones in here complaining about statues triggering people. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:21:19 PM EDT
[#43]
The interstate system carries more than good things to and from the states.
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:23:48 PM EDT
[#44]
As a Southerner I'm incredibly disappointed that people in power and the left wings mobs are trying to erase our history and label my ancestors as evil.
As an American I'm incredibly concerned that people in power and the left wing mobs are getting away with erasing our history and changing our landscape without any due process. Isn't it illegal to remove monuments in Virginia by General Assembly law? That may have been repealed by them or something, but I know it's illegal in North Carolina and several municipalities have done it anyway without legal repercussions. What will stop people in power from taking away our guns, shutting down communications networks, or doing any number of things illegally if they can get the media and mob on their sides? |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:26:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there a statue to any of them in London? And, FWIW, and of them can point to the Declaration of Independence as the cause for which they were fighting. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: good, seditionists and traitors shouldn't have monuments. Kinda like the seditionists and traitors to the British back in the American Revolution?  Is there a statue to any of them in London? And, FWIW, and of them can point to the Declaration of Independence as the cause for which they were fighting. Part of reconstruction. You know, reuniting the country. I'm not a confederate flag guy, nor a southerner by birth. But I've lived in Virginia long enough to be educated on the matter. Lee was educated at West Point, the history they taught at the time was the Constitution was a revocable contract, as it was sold to Virginia during the Ratification Conventions. He was torn on what side to take, and he was a honorable guy. I have no delusions the South would have won. I have no delusions industrialisation wasn't the way. I have no delusions slavery was dying. It's an interesting time in our history that deserved to be preserved. Lots of Americans died, no matter what side you fancy. That's pretty historically important. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:29:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dare say your opinion of Lee is worth much, much less than Eisenhower's. https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2011/julyaugust/feature/how-did-robert-e-lee-become-american-icon After President Dwight D. Eisenhower revealed on national television that one of the four “great Americans” whose pictures hung in his office was none other than Robert E. Lee, a thoroughly perplexed New York dentist reminded him that Lee had devoted “his best efforts to the destruction of the United States government” and confessed that since he could not see “how any American can include Robert E. Lee as a person to be emulated, why the President of the United States of America should do so is certainly beyond me.” Eisenhower replied personally and without hesitation, explaining that Lee was, “in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. . . . selfless almost to a fault . . . noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history. From deep conviction I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee’s caliber would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities . . . we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained.” Lee’s father fought a rebellion too, at a time when slavery was also at issue and Jefferson even included an indictment of the crown for saddling the colonies with the despicable act of slavery (while being a slave owner himself) in the first draft of the Declaration of Independence. It was shelved in favor of a tamer version to appease the southern colonies who’s support for the revolution was desperately needed...so basically we would have not had a country or a future constitutional republic to even arrive at the crisis the Civil War presented. History is odd but it is what it is and presents lessons. Do we stifle speech because it offends a minority or do we embrace it as a means of discourse that needs to happen? My mother used to say that free speech is extraordinarily valuable just on the base notion that it “allows the idiots to identify themselves and you aren’t left associating with them in ignorance” lol...reminders of real history should surround us, even the negative ones, lest we forget. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:34:12 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Part of reconstruction. You know, reuniting the country. I'm not a confederate flag guy, nor a southerner by birth. But I've lived in Virginia long enough to be educated on the matter. Lee was educated at West Point, the history they taught at the time was the Constitution was a revocable contract, as it was sold to Virginia during the Ratification Conventions. He was torn on what side to take, and he was a honorable guy. I have no delusions the South would have won. I have no delusions industrialisation wasn't the way. I have no delusions slavery was dying. It's an interesting time in our history that deserved to be preserved. Lots of Americans died, no matter what side you fancy. That's pretty historically important. You may not be a Southerner by birth, but you’ve proven time and time again that you are one of our brothers and a Son of Virginia by how proudly you continue to stand with us, time and time again.......Fact is, you understand what those who denounce us don’t, and there are many here who are thankful for it. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:34:58 PM EDT
[#48]
We can discuss the Whiskey Rebellion if people want to get triggered by the Civil War.
Yep, the cause had some merit. Yep, the cause was defeated. Yep, the union was kept in tact. The racism nonsense erases the tough trials of our country as it grew, and furthermore shows the difficult decisions we've had to make. Jefferson had a heart attack of conscious over the Barbary Wars. But we don't focus on that. We don't focus on the conflicting opinions of an idealist (who was an abolitionist way before it was cool) we focus on divisive politics. Why? To divide and control us. Americans educated in our history honestly have winners and losers. TJ lost a LOT of ideological battles, yet we still excavate archeological sites based on his notes. |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:43:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We do not have conservatives in this country despite people calling themselves such. There is nothing in the Republican Party that bears any sort of resemblence to the writings of Edmund Burke, Russell Kirk, GK Chesterton, Roger Scruton. Its just some weird twisted economic nationalism. Meh separate economies is a good thing so are separate nations. It keeps them all from collapsing when the globalist “eggs in one basket” theory fails. Nevermind that most of the post-nationalists want a combined economy because it takes down the barriers to looting it. Ever notice that one of the biggest funders of the post-nationalist movement is also a hedge fund pirate that has collapsed the economies of several nations in the past and is still wanted for market tampering in several others? |
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Posted: 6/3/2020 11:48:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Civil War triggers a lot of people. Oddly, by some of the same ones in here complaining about statues triggering people. The “winners” seem to bitch the loudest. I say that as a born Yankee and ancestor of Union soldiers. |
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