The one WWII Kraut veteran I talked to told us about how after the war he joined the FFL and fought in VN and Algeria.

This was in late '85 while we were drivers for the umpires for the upcoming '86 Reforger. I don't remember exactly where
we were but it was in 1AD's AO, somewhere around Regensburg.

We didn't ask him any 'political' questions and he didn't volunteer any. Our new "Fritz" helmets were the ice-breaker; the
Germans got a big kick out of the shape of them. The theatrical double-takes folks did over them in '85 were priceless.

"Wait a minute......What the HELL???"

Those Krauts being interviewed didn't "tell a different side of the story." They were telling folks what they themselves desperately
wanted to believe. The whole nation was/is guilty as hell. To different degrees, sure, but still guilty.

On the other side of maybe the same coin, HOW many babies have been aborted in the US since Roe vs. Wade?? Sure it is the "law" but does that
make it right? I hope I am long gone when the Butcher's Bill for THAT bullshit comes due.

What kind of animal would do that!  Makes my blood boil and my heart ache for those children.

Shady old man is shady. O they were partisans so thats why we deported 500 men and killed off 450 thats justifiable. Quite an arrogant attitude for dudes that lost the war.

That's a valid point. But since the wars started the media has been foaming at the mouth to portray the military in a negative light, so even a whiff of a civilian massacre (or what happened at Abu Garhib) gets massive coverage whether it's substantiated or not. The fact that the media was embedded with military units, mostly has a left wing belief system, and still wasn't able to come up with a litany of reports on it is established fact. Even 40 years from now they wouldn't find evidence of massive violations of the laws of war and the like, and since the "watchdogs" were on their side they'd have to either concede it didn't happen or the the media was incompetent. It's not a winner for them either way.



But that's assuming there even will be such a thing as a leftist academic 40 years from now, if their multicultural inclusive paradise comes to pass they'll be near the top of the list to go up against a wall when their buddies the Islamists (and/or Socialists) are enabled (by them) to get away with doing it.



 

They are toothless monsters now.

Some people need to read up on WWI occupations of Eastern Europe and France. The actions taken against partisan forces in WWII were in keeping with prior standards, and while still completely fucking insane, were more or less similar to the same atrocities that no one batted an eye over in WWI. That's a big reason for stories such as this one. These guys are likely still assholes though, but there was a such thing as good Germans in WWII that still fought against the allies.


Anyone who doesn't appreciate the sacrifices that were made, by all combatants and non-combatants, in that war are using the same broad brush that they accuse their enemies of labeling all of humanity with. Many Germans, Russians, Americans, Japanese, British, etc soldiers fought hard and struggled to maintain their own humanity despite being surrounded by so much inhumanity. The real victory isn't in marching down some other country's streets, but in remaining a decent human being despite the strains placed upon you by a chain of command that just cares about getting what it wants, regardless of right and wrong. And that's the story of every war ever. Good guys versus assholes, regardless of whatever 'side' they're on.

Germans.

And the Russians killed just as many German POWs. Not to mention their own people. There's a way to justify anything in a person's mind, they key is to keep enough of your soul to just know when shit is wrong, regardless of what the reasoning behind it is.

The US government brought thousands of ex-nazi soldiers and scientists to work for them and as citizens. They smuggled thousands more to South America where many still live. Look up Odessa, you will be quite surprised how OK our govt was with them.

I have a hard time believing they knew nothing.

You guys are amazing. You question nothing. Your whole lives and world view based on a narrative. A 70 year old narrative, driven by the greatest propaganda machines of all time that have had their hands in shaping your mind since birth.  A narrative which is completely one sided. A narrative which if challenged by Germans would land them behind bars. Half the story erased. A people silenced by those who won the war.  A narrative you must believe to honor your fathers and grandfathers. What a thorough job has been done on your minds.





If you read any memoirs, you find that the young men were in fact in it to fight Bolshevism, the real evil. They were in it to defend their country, people and culture from the destruction it has since witnessed.





We won the war, welcomed the communists into our country and into Europe, and the cultural and moral decay we have today is a direct result of that. This disaster is much of what the Germans struggled to prevent.



 

Toothless since my Uncle was wounded pulling the Dragons Teeth on the Siegfried Line

The same thing is happening now in this technology/information revolution.



The results may be similar.



We live in a historic time of change.





 

What about what our government did to the pacific islanders with the nuke tests? Not quite as bad as the holocaust but certainly far from noble.
http://nuclearclaimstribunal.com/

Want to watch an 88's head explode who says they are a "pure" German?  Remind them that Germany has been invaded by multiple ethnic groups for thousands of years, Slavs, Asians, etc... DNA testing will show most Germanic people are mutts.

Interesting how this excuse never gets out of fashion, eh?

A family friend helped liberate Buchenwald. He told stories about bodies stacked up so high . . .

I don't know how anyone can pin something that grievous on us today. That takes a special kind of evil.

Someone else I knew was a POW guard stateside during the war. He said many of the German prisoners were forced into it, didn't want anything to do with it, and were actually not unhappy to be in POW camps in the USA. Others, he said, were true believers for the Nazi cause . . .

So much butt hurt happened in Europe after Germany surrendered. 100K German troops marched west to surrender to the Americans only to
be turned over to Russian soldiers and marched back east. Less than 3K repartitioned later.

Sudetenland Germans executed in Czechoslovakia. Lists goes on and on.

Not making excuses, just showing the fall of Eastern Europe and how so many people got swallowed up behind the Iron Curtain.

What do you think happened with most Obama voters? They sit in denial and rationalize.... and blame Bush.

Problem is they knew what they had and voted for the fucker a second time. At least the Germans have the excuse that once in Hitler gave them no second chance.

  What in the hell?  So how did running death camps help prevent communism?  What did the invasion of France have to do with that?  If I were to think your view had any merit I would be one very confused individual.

All I can say is, my uncle Chuck wasted a lot of those fuckers during his time in the ETO.

One major reason Hitler lost the war was because so much of his railroad rolling stock was tied up in transporting the Jews (and others) to the camps. Brand-new war materiel lay rusting on the loading docks because of this.

Needs more white phosphorus and depleted uranium.

That, and killing off the Jews and other undesirables.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

LMAO.

yep everyone else is a dumbass. but you know the truth.

They just found a 96 year old man living in Minnesota that was an SS commander during WWII. His unit participated in the round up and massacre of an entire village. He lied on his immigration papers and they've let him live here for almost 70 years. By the time they get around to having him deported he'll be dead.

LOL... wow talk about the power of delusion.  The German soldier did not commit war crimes?  
 

They claimed they were fighting to "free the slaves".

That is one old man I would love to beat to a bloody pulp, and smash his dentures with my boot.

They claimed they were "protecting" Europe and Germany from the Russians and Americans.

This. The truth is hard for some to accept. I'm no fan of Nazi Germany , but I hate the Communists more.
My family immigrated from Poland, and had close relatives still there during and after the war.

I guess I should have added, "if the USA ever is defeated and is no longer writing the history books.."    I am not asserting that I or my fellow servicemen are equal to the Nazis.  We follow ROE and LOAC to avoid unnecessary suffering (and bad press).  However, an Iraqi or Afghan could say, "You invaded my country and killed my people, many of them innocent civilians."   I would not have a very good response other than, "We were at war... 9/11... Following lawful orders..."

This, I take pride in the fact that my grandfather pulled the lever to rain down hell on them as a bombardier in a B-17, I've seen the targets listed in his log book.

They fought for an expansionist regime that brutalized every nation within its power to do so.





Fuck every single one of them and every single person that supported them. There's a reason we went over there and rocked their world with bombs and bullets...including my German grandfather, who fought the Axis as an American citizen rather than support a country whose direction was clearly and undeniably out for conquest.





We could not have bombed that nation enough, or killed enough of its people, to satisfy the wrong it committed against the human race...dissidents, homosexuals, the disabled, the mentally ill, gypsies, trade-unionists, Jews, and ethnic minorities...not to mention the innocent soldiers who died resisting their advance.



There were no innocent Germans born before 1934, not one.



 

Of course they're not.





However that did not stop the Wehrmacht from actively assisting and carrying out Hitler's vision, particularly in the East.  





 

From what my uncle told, Dachau was liberated in the morning and his artillery unit got there in the afternoon. He told that there were windrows of bodies 6' high and over a hundred yards long. He said that it was remarkable that they had taken the time to stack the bodies in perfectly vertical and straight rows. He also said that the prisoners were scared of them and were refusing to come out of their barracks. They'd open the door a crack, peek out, and slam it shut. They could not believe that they had been liberated.

Amazing thread.

 I wonder if most of you blame every single inhabitant of the US (at the time) for what was done to the Indians?

 Do you know that some Indians were slaughtered during the "civil" war?  Were the soldiers fighting in VA responsible for that?

 Were the German army privates that were in Africa responsible for the massacre of the Jews also?

As I said, I'm no fan of Nazi Germany, but I can be fair. Even to our former enemies.

ETA: Who the hell are YOU to edit MY post?  If I'm not allowed to express my opinions on ARFCOM let me know now!

 




















 

+1

And it's not like the U.S. was willing to take in Jews with open arms.  Uncomfortable facts are uncomfortable.

Ever read Stuka Pilot?  Rudel said when they crossed the border that first morning (the new border, in Poland, between what the Germans had captured and what the Russians had captured) the Russian tanks and trucks and soldiers were backed up for miles.  He believed the Russians were about to attack Germany and Germany just beat them to the punch.

I do not agree with what was done or condone it.  However, think about these days in the US.  How many of us will sit around some day and say we didn't see which direction things were going.  We were just following the orders of the officers.  We were just trying to get by in a bad situation.  Look at the way the governments (federal, state, local) are pressuring people with conservative and Christian beliefs.  Look at the way some people can get away with committing crimes, even violent crimes and the government, police and courts look the other way.  Where will it end?  What will you say, if you're still here to be asked.

Yes, my folks came over here from a part of Europe that is now in Germany in 1741.  My grandpa fought in WW1 (3rd US Inf. Div.), my dad spent 23 years in the USAF and I volunteered for 4 years in the US Army.  I don't have any hard feelings towards those old men.   I can't say the same thing about the folks today that claim to be Americans and yet work everyday to tear America down.

The battle of Stalingrad, and the lead up to it was the greatest service to this world. Nazis and Communists were killing each other in great numbers.

It's too bad they couldn't both lose and leave the rest of the world out of it.

The rank and file German soldiers were not the problem, many of them didn't know about the multiple atrocities committed by the SS buuuuuuut, many rank and file Germans were all to happy to gun down Allied POW's and surrendering soldiers so F 'em.

Hitler wasn't the only person on Planet Earth who hated Jews.  'The Jews' were part of the whole political plan--the Final Solution.  Another important part of the FS was the coincidental destruction of Bolshevism and acquisition of new land for the expansion of Germany's [State-sponsored] anti-materialistic population.   Acting to get rid of the Jews--to clean their own house first--was part of the politics to get neighbors to stay off Germany's back until the Russian thing was over.  The idea of removal of the Jews--though planned from the get-go--was part of occupational appeasement plan as it turned out.  When Russia was defeated the idea was to take advantage of everyone's sigh of relief and talk about some sort of peace.  No, that's not non-narrative crazy talk.  War between the West and Germany was not nearly as desired as war between Bolshevism and the West.  Many rightfully saw war between Bolshevism and the West as inevitable.  Among nations, friends are the enemy of ones enemies.  Hatred of Germans--the process toward hatred of an enemy--happened like it usually does: when a nation wants to kill a nation back for being killed.  What drove the Germans to kill wantonly wasn't so much a thirst for blood as the necessity when one is so outnumbered but within reach of long-coveted and somewhat globally supported goals.  Killings are forgiven when the dead were universally hated end state is so pleasing to everyone.  Killings on this scale aren't done for bloodlust.  They are killed for a purpose and/or with an end state in mind.  

Were the American Indians going to willfully merge with whitey when we didn't want them to?  No?  Well, would the Indians have been able to stop other nations who coveted their resources, perhaps an enemy, from taking it and growing more powerful because of it, even if we had decided to do the "the right thing" and let them keep it because they had it first?  No?  Could we have ignored them and expected two wildly disparate people to live amongst each other in peace when one of those People didn't even have a notion of government?  Then what do we do?  What can we do?  In what direction does our need for preservation point?  Sadly, but surely and inevitably, we, [u]or any other nation[/u:] run them off or kill them, that's what.  

Sometimes objectivity forces us to look where we don't want to look.  

This

Fighting Bolsheviks...by invading Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, Belgium, Northern Africa, the Baltic countries, the Balkans, and countless more....bombing the shit out of England, and waging war on the US pre-emptively.
Fightin them Bolsheviks by rounding up Jews, dissidents, gypsies and ethnic monorities to be gassed or shipped off to their deaths.
Keeping the evil communists at bay by crafting (by election then by force) a nation of genocidal war-mongers as bad as any enemy they could ever face.

Guess my "narrative" is just all wrong. What a load of fanciful diahrea, what 88 drivel.
 

From the way they are spinning history to portray themselves as heroic, I am certain they knew everything.

Fuck them, it's too bad they lived to see old age.

Churchill was a horrible painter!

Hitler could paint an entire apartment in one afternoon!  TWO COATS!