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Posted: 12/14/2015 7:36:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm onto you... You're trying to get two views out of me.  Ballistics gel can't melt steel beams. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Also... Barrel length? Muzzle velocity? You know you embedded the video, right?  I'm onto you... You're trying to get two views out of me. Ballistics gel can't melt steel beams. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 7:38:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So where do we get M855A1? |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 7:40:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Amazing ... now I want one of those cameras.
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Posted: 12/14/2015 7:44:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF? Is there a secondary explosion as the gel contracts after the projectile has exited? I was wondering about that myself. I'm guessing atomized gel dust/particles and air being compressed as the cavity shrinks and reaches a pressure/temperature at which point the mixture ignites. Sort of like an internal combustion engine. Isn't science awesome? ETA: Nevermind, already answered a bunch of times on page 1...
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Posted: 12/14/2015 7:46:34 PM EDT
[#5]
link to m855a1 for sale?
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Posted: 12/14/2015 7:48:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Well done. As usual.
How does the M855A1 compare against the TSX ? |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 7:50:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well done. As usual. How does the M855A1 compare against the TSX ? |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 7:50:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Wasn't there something about The Pentagon asking the last gelatin test of this ammo removed from ARF.
ETA Freaking awesome vid. Thanks |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 7:55:10 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree that it is likely dieseling of vapor gel material. At the apex of cavitation pressure in the bubble must drop really low. Some gel material turns to vapor. Bubble collapses, pressure rises and eventually the now-compressed and heated vapor ignites. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
WTF? Is there a secondary explosion as the gel contracts after the projectile has exited? Yes. Observed often in Clear Ballistics, and sometimes even in organic gel. I think that's the air in the temporary cavity igniting as the cavity collapses and the pressure increases. I agree that it is likely dieseling of vapor gel material. At the apex of cavitation pressure in the bubble must drop really low. Some gel material turns to vapor. Bubble collapses, pressure rises and eventually the now-compressed and heated vapor ignites. I think this explains it. The vacuum that is created by the sudden expansion causes the gel to boil and fill the space. Then the contraction acts like a fire piston and ignites the vapor as it compresses. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 7:58:52 PM EDT
[#10]
Great Video OP, keep up the great work!
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:02:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn't there something about The Pentagon asking the last gelatin test of this ammo removed from ARF. ETA Freaking awesome vid. Thanks Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:05:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Any Mk 318 Mod 0 rounds to compare?
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:07:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Awesome video! Tag for the TSX.
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:09:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think this explains it. The vacuum that is created by the sudden expansion causes the gel to boil and fill the space. Then the contraction acts like a fire piston and ignites the vapor as it compresses. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: WTF? Is there a secondary explosion as the gel contracts after the projectile has exited? Yes. Observed often in Clear Ballistics, and sometimes even in organic gel. I think that's the air in the temporary cavity igniting as the cavity collapses and the pressure increases. I agree that it is likely dieseling of vapor gel material. At the apex of cavitation pressure in the bubble must drop really low. Some gel material turns to vapor. Bubble collapses, pressure rises and eventually the now-compressed and heated vapor ignites. I think this explains it. The vacuum that is created by the sudden expansion causes the gel to boil and fill the space. Then the contraction acts like a fire piston and ignites the vapor as it compresses. ETA: The geek term is adiabatic compressed ignition. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:09:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that was a story that snowballed out of control. AFAIK the only person who asked for the test to be removed was the one that procured the ammo. Not a .gov entity. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that. Thanks! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wasn't there something about The Pentagon asking the last gelatin test of this ammo removed from ARF. ETA Freaking awesome vid. Thanks Thanks! I think it was InfiniteGrim who received the take down notice |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:15:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So where do we get M855A1? Right now? Be a DoD contractor or know a guy who knows a guy. ATK would have to address the issue of M855A1's legal status as NOT AP ammo in order to sell it. The BATFE is likely to fight that and it will take some legal wrangling to get the BATFE to admit that M855A1 does not meet the definition of AP under Federal law. The BATFE will have an aneurysm dealing with the implications of this bullet construction not being AP, so they will fight, kick, scream, drag their feet and ignore attempts to address this issue. Add to this the fact ATK isn't even willing to sell regular M855 to the public anymore, and I think they are way too chicken to push the matter of M855A1. Plus they are busy filling the DoD needs for this ammo anyway. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:15:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Chemist here. It is definitely "dieseling." From my research I am reasonably confident that those blocks are composed of a mineral oil gel. Mineral oil is a petroleum derivative that is to diesel what diesel is to gasoline. It's not flammable under normal conditions but would be under these extreme conditions. ETA: The geek term is adiabatic compressed ignition. Yep. I bet if you put it in a vacuum chamber, you would get it to outgas. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:24:12 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. I bet if you put it in a vacuum chamber, you would get it to outgas. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Chemist here. It is definitely "dieseling." From my research I am reasonably confident that those blocks are composed of a mineral oil gel. Mineral oil is a petroleum derivative that is to diesel what diesel is to gasoline. It's not flammable under normal conditions but would be under these extreme conditions. ETA: The geek term is adiabatic compressed ignition. Yep. I bet if you put it in a vacuum chamber, you would get it to outgas. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:35:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Someone did an underwater high speed video of an AKM.
Same phenomenon happened to the water. Well, without the gas farting out the ends. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:46:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The flashes are also observed, though much more rarely, in organic gel shot with high velocity rifles. I suppose pig fat can also be dieseled. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
WTF? Is there a secondary explosion as the gel contracts after the projectile has exited? Hydrocarbons in the gel igniting from during compression of the TC. Similar to engine knock. The flashes are also observed, though much more rarely, in organic gel shot with high velocity rifles. I suppose pig fat can also be dieseled. Really? I wouldn't have thought that anything that was 90% water could burn. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:49:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any chance of seeing that test in standard ballistic gel? I know that Dr. Roberts has not been impressed with the Clear Ballistics version's ability to accurately show tsc from rifle rounds. Nowhere near as awesome as 10mm_'s high asked video, but here is M855A1 fired into natural gelatin from a 14.5" barrel: 
https://youtu.be/9_epymWduYs |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:52:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
bluefalcon will be along shortly to whore out his own videos and tell you how much better pig goo is than clear gel lol. But for real I've done another clear gel test with more info, and he did two in pig goo one from an SBR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Any chance of seeing that test in standard ballistic gel? I know that Dr. Roberts has not been impressed with the Clear Ballistics version's ability to accurately show tsc from rifle rounds. But for real I've done another clear gel test with more info, and he did two in pig goo one from an SBR. Lol, hey, there's probably some beef goo in my pig goo.
Whoring aside, I think that clear gel is a hat better choice for this application as it allows us to see very clearly what is happening. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:55:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wasn't there something about The Pentagon asking the last gelatin test of this ammo removed from ARF. ETA Freaking awesome vid. Thanks There were rumors of that but no one could provide any references. Pretty sure it was bullshit. No men on black have come to my house and 10mm_ is still posting. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:00:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone did an underwater high speed video of an AKM. Same phenomenon happened to the water. Well, without the gas farting out the ends. That was Smarter Every Day and it was sonoluminesce in that case. Entirely different mechanism. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:39:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Really? I wouldn't have thought that anything that was 90% water could burn. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
WTF? Is there a secondary explosion as the gel contracts after the projectile has exited? Hydrocarbons in the gel igniting from during compression of the TC. Similar to engine knock. The flashes are also observed, though much more rarely, in organic gel shot with high velocity rifles. I suppose pig fat can also be dieseled. Really? I wouldn't have thought that anything that was 90% water could burn. Water vapor doesn't always keep things from burning. Diesel and gas combustion engines can run in high humidity, after all. It's all a question of fuel/air/water vapor ratio. The flashes aren't as common in organic gel though, as mentioned. Only showing up rarely with high velocity rifles. By contrast the flashes show up with whimpy little .380s in ClearBallistics. To explain the difference, either pig fat doesn't like to burn as easily, or the water vapor is suppressing ignition by messing up the fuel/air ratio, or both. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:47:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hnnnnnnng!! I really want to see the 50 TSX. When will that one be up? Ditto, I use the 62gr for hunting deer close in. I would like to see the 50gr. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:54:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ditto, I use the 62gr for hunting deer close in. I would like to see the 50gr. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hnnnnnnng!! I really want to see the 50 TSX. When will that one be up? Ditto, I use the 62gr for hunting deer close in. I would like to see the 50gr. TSXs are nasty, wicked bullets. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 11:12:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that's the air in the temporary cavity igniting as the cavity collapses and the pressure increases. ETA: Sonoluminescence. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: WTF? Is there a secondary explosion as the gel contracts after the projectile has exited? Yes. Observed often in Clear Ballistics, and sometimes even in organic gel. I think that's the air in the temporary cavity igniting as the cavity collapses and the pressure increases. ETA: Sonoluminescence. That is not sonoluminescence, that is combustion.C an you not see the gases venting back out and the yellow flame? |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 12:14:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There were rumors of that but no one could provide any references. Pretty sure it was bullshit. No men on black have come to my house and 10mm_ is still posting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wasn't there something about The Pentagon asking the last gelatin test of this ammo removed from ARF. ETA Freaking awesome vid. Thanks There were rumors of that but no one could provide any references. Pretty sure it was bullshit. No men on black have come to my house and 10mm_ is still posting. Infinite Grim said DoD contacted him after his tests. This was fairly early on in the stages of A1. Years later, the data has been distributed enough they aren't worried about performance of the round put into public knowledge. IG was a solid guy, and I never doubted what he said about people contacting him. I will say it again. Chances are you will never see this on the open market. .gov doesn't want this out there. What is, probably not found in a good way. |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 12:21:48 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any Mk 318 Mod 0 rounds to compare? |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 12:22:45 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Chemist here. It is definitely "dieseling." From my research I am reasonably confident that those blocks are composed of a mineral oil gel. Mineral oil is a petroleum derivative that is to diesel what diesel is to gasoline. It's not flammable under normal conditions but would be under these extreme conditions. ETA: The geek term is adiabatic compressed ignition. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes. Observed often in Clear Ballistics, and sometimes even in organic gel. I think that's the air in the temporary cavity igniting as the cavity collapses and the pressure increases. I agree that it is likely dieseling of vapor gel material. At the apex of cavitation pressure in the bubble must drop really low. Some gel material turns to vapor. Bubble collapses, pressure rises and eventually the now-compressed and heated vapor ignites. I think this explains it. The vacuum that is created by the sudden expansion causes the gel to boil and fill the space. Then the contraction acts like a fire piston and ignites the vapor as it compresses. ETA: The geek term is adiabatic compressed ignition. |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 12:23:48 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Negative Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Any Mk 318 Mod 0 rounds to compare? If you reload, I can send some. |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 12:24:40 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: TSXs are nasty, wicked bullets. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hnnnnnnng!! I really want to see the 50 TSX. When will that one be up? Ditto, I use the 62gr for hunting deer close in. I would like to see the 50gr. TSXs are nasty, wicked bullets. |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 12:26:25 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm onto you... You're trying to get two views out of me.
Ballistics gel can't melt steel beams. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Also... Barrel length? Muzzle velocity? You know you embedded the video, right? I'm onto you... You're trying to get two views out of me.
Ballistics gel can't melt steel beams. HAH! Cool video. Never knew about the little explosion afterwards. |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 12:26:52 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you reload, I can send some. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Any Mk 318 Mod 0 rounds to compare? If you reload, I can send some. |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 12:40:13 AM EDT
[#36]
One of the best slow-mo ballistics vids ever. Awesome.
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Posted: 12/15/2015 12:46:21 AM EDT
[#37]
These are mini-nucluear weapon bullets and they must be banned. For the children.
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Posted: 12/15/2015 12:47:17 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't use hand loads for gel tests or I would take you up on it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any Mk 318 Mod 0 rounds to compare? If you reload, I can send some. I can send you some... It's the older Mk318, not Mk318 Mod 1. I'd frankly like to see both. |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 1:00:10 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The steel tip came out of the side of the block, the copper slug penetrated straight through and out the back. This round is fucking rowdy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
How thick was the block? Heavy penetration. Was there a little piece of bullet left near the front? I noticed the tip separated from the back towards the back of the gel. This round is fucking rowdy. That round is awesome. This ammo is a perfect example of why you shouldn't believe the bullshit you read on the web or see on the news. This round was regarded as hippie, save the environment, obama pushing it to help our troops get killed, absolute garbage in the name of saving everything except the person that fired the round. But actually testing it, it is something to be amazed by. |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 1:04:42 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That round is awesome. This ammo is a perfect example of why you shouldn't believe the bullshit you read on the web or see on the news. This round was regarded as hippie, save the environment, obama pushing it to help our troops get killed, absolute garbage in the name of saving everything except the person that fired the round. But actually testing it, it is something to be amazed by. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How thick was the block? Heavy penetration. Was there a little piece of bullet left near the front? I noticed the tip separated from the back towards the back of the gel. This round is fucking rowdy. That round is awesome. This ammo is a perfect example of why you shouldn't believe the bullshit you read on the web or see on the news. This round was regarded as hippie, save the environment, obama pushing it to help our troops get killed, absolute garbage in the name of saving everything except the person that fired the round. But actually testing it, it is something to be amazed by. |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 1:05:46 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Holy crap the gel looks like it is farting at the end. Unfortunately this is the first thing i thought |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 1:05:48 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is not sonoluminescence, that is combustion.C an you not see the gases venting back out and the yellow flame? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
WTF? Is there a secondary explosion as the gel contracts after the projectile has exited? Yes. Observed often in Clear Ballistics, and sometimes even in organic gel. I think that's the air in the temporary cavity igniting as the cavity collapses and the pressure increases. ETA: Sonoluminescence. That is not sonoluminescence, that is combustion.C an you not see the gases venting back out and the yellow flame? 7000 degrees F can do that. Not making this stuff up |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 1:06:26 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can send you some... It's the older Mk318, not Mk318 Mod 1. I'd frankly like to see both. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Any Mk 318 Mod 0 rounds to compare? If you reload, I can send some. I can send you some... It's the older Mk318, not Mk318 Mod 1. I'd frankly like to see both. |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 1:07:57 AM EDT
[#44]
Coolest video yet!
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Posted: 12/15/2015 1:17:27 AM EDT
[#45]
Work with him to set up some video of the common polymer tipped bullets at 100, 200 and 300 yards (or further if accuracy allows) to test the "melting tip" claims Hornady came up with. If you can get a clear shot of a previously sharp tip drooping or deforming in flight due to heat and drag Hornady ought to be willing to pay some cash for the ad copy!
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Posted: 12/15/2015 1:31:24 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Work with him to set up some video of the common polymer tipped bullets at 100, 200 and 300 yards (or further if accuracy allows) to test the "melting tip" claims Hornady came up with. If you can get a clear shot of a previously sharp tip drooping or deforming due to heat and drag Hornady ought to be willing to pay some cash for the ad copy! The tip isn't going to droop at 240,000 revolutions per minute. At best, you might be able to get a vague mushroom shape, but out starting around 600 yards. |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 1:37:20 AM EDT
[#47]
This was awesome! Thanks for sharing
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Posted: 12/15/2015 1:52:20 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The tip isn't going to droop at 240,000 revolutions per minute. At best, you might be able to get a vague mushroom shape, but out starting around 600 yards. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Work with him to set up some video of the common polymer tipped bullets at 100, 200 and 300 yards (or further if accuracy allows) to test the "melting tip" claims Hornady came up with. If you can get a clear shot of a previously sharp tip drooping or deforming due to heat and drag Hornady ought to be willing to pay some cash for the ad copy! The tip isn't going to droop at 240,000 revolutions per minute. At best, you might be able to get a vague mushroom shape, but out starting around 600 yards. So get a good shooter with a LaRue or some other 1/2 MOA rifle and hit the target at 600 yards! How hard can it be? 
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Posted: 12/15/2015 1:59:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
WTF? Is there a secondary explosion as the gel contracts after the projectile has exited? Yes. Observed often in Clear Ballistics, and sometimes even in organic gel. I think that's the air in the temporary cavity igniting as the cavity collapses and the pressure increases. ETA: Sonoluminescence. That is not sonoluminescence, that is combustion.C an you not see the gases venting back out and the yellow flame? 7000 degrees F can do that. Not making this stuff up Sonoluminescence (which is air emitting light from being heated without combustion occuring) is real. However, it is not what we are seeing in this test. This is combustion. You can tell from the products of the combustion. I bet the color of the flashes supports combustion as well. |
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Posted: 12/15/2015 2:08:41 AM EDT
[#50]
Great video!!!
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