User Panel
Ulitmately, we the consumer are responsible for ourselves.
No amount of legislation/enforcement is going to solve this “problem”. |
|
|
I find this whole epidemic to be so annoying. Yeah, Dr's obviously caused it with over prescribing pain meds. But it's not like they forced people to take the pills. Is it really that incredibly difficult to recognize you don't need to continue to take the prescribed pain meds and can switch to Tylenol or whatever. When I broke some bones in my hand 3 years ago they gave me 30 Vicodin after my surgery. I took 1 the day after and that was it. Maybe some Tylenol here or there. People want their pain completely taken away. They completely ignore the management part of pain management. They want pain obliteration. None at all.
Btw none of what I said was meant toward someone with legitimate issues in need of pain meds. |
|
|
Quoted:
Abuse of prescription medications are a bigger problem then heroin and fentanyl. Exactly. For the most part, people don't just wake up and decide to go take a hit of crack, meth or heroin. Typically there are two categories. People are prescribed a pain med, get addicted, and then their script runs out and/or they can no longer afford them so they turn to street drugs. Or, people just like to party. They use prescription drugs (whether its theirs or not) and eventually evolve to harder drugs. I don't necessarily care if someone chooses to destroy their own life through drugs. Or if then continue to fuck up the lives of their family because of their drug addiction. But I do understand that the 'war on drugs' is about a lot more then just stopping people from getting high. For the most part drug's have a huge impact in murder rates, violent crime rates, as well as even property crimes like theft, burglary, and robbery. I know where I live when the murder/violent crime rates go up. City officials put a lot more pressure on the police department to 'hit the streets' hard. Which usually means 'high crime' areas and arresting a bunch of people for drug related offenses. In general the more drug users/dealers you lock up. The lower the crime stats are. You get to lax on those areas/people and things start to get out of control. Its about a lot more then just the big bad politicians trying to make money or 'enslave' the population. Its about the illusion of a safer/more prosperous city. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Our neighbors too the south are bringing in heroin and fentanyl by the semi truck load. Afghanistan is the worlds largest producer of opioids and our opponents sell them to finance their side of the war. Prescription narcotics are all unit dosed and tracked by the DEA, but they are the problem.Dirty white people. A wall would be a big help but,you know racist. Quoted:
Doctors have been handing opioids out like trick or treat candy. Most Teens Who Abuse Opioids First Got Them From a Doctor. I'm thinking its most addicts, not just teens. I don't necessarily care if someone chooses to destroy their own life through drugs. Or if then continue to fuck up the lives of their family because of their drug addiction. But I do understand that the 'war on drugs' is about a lot more then just stopping people from getting high. For the most part drug's have a huge impact in murder rates, violent crime rates, as well as even property crimes like theft, burglary, and robbery. I know where I live when the murder/violent crime rates go up. City officials put a lot more pressure on the police department to 'hit the streets' hard. Which usually means 'high crime' areas and arresting a bunch of people for drug related offenses. In general the more drug users/dealers you lock up. The lower the crime stats are. You get to lax on those areas/people and things start to get out of control. Its about a lot more then just the big bad politicians trying to make money or 'enslave' the population. Its about the illusion of a safer/more prosperous city. |
|
Quoted:
He told them, he was with VA and the Doctor's didn't care, based on what he was dealing with, they said the "schedule" states this is what your require and that is what they sent, as a VA patient myself, believe me over the years, we have had some very vivid conversations about what their guidelines call for and what my body is telling me. I was wounded on an action in the 90's and had reconstructive hip surgery and now have to have reconstructive on that hip again plus have the other hip joint replaced and they put in an order for Opioids and I about blew a gasket when the first bottle of it showed up, I went into the VA clinic and slammed the bottle on the counter and reminded them I said NO, I don't want them, created quite a sensation in the office, but I have no use for that shit. The problem is, way to many doctors hand that crap out like candy and really don't pay attention to what is going on with their patients, it reminds me of the late 60's when people went to the doctor and complained about weighing to much and the doctors automatically wrote you a prescription for diet pill(speed) we call it Meth these days! View Quote The VA does not had an auto mail system for the past 20 years I have been going there. It took at least a phone call to refill scripts. Those with addiction problems will get their drugs one way or another. For those of us who are truly in pain 7 days a week 24 hours a day a monthly visit is next to impossible. If someone displays seeking behaviors or their piss test is hot they need to be cut off. But if they are following protocol leave them be. |
|
My big concern with the "War on Opioids" being the current cause celeb is that folks with legitimate issues will get cut off. Local, State and Federal Government excel at throwing babies out with the bathwater.
My Dad is 73 and has degenerative disk disease. He's now permanently crippled and in constant pain from the DDD and from failed surgeries to help him. He could have a surgery that would fix everything and get him out of pain, but the surgeon said it would kill him. So he takes Loratab/Norco regularly to get him out of pain. My wife also has back issues. There have been times she's been in pain so bad for weeks on end. Only Loratab gets her out of pain when she is like that. I've had to watch both of them suffer. Seeing that, I don't wan to see them suffer in the future because some moron decided to use opioids and now politicans want to make it harder for people to get out of pain. |
|
Before you decide that the government is doing a good thing, go to your local cancer center and sit in the treatment waiting room and listen to every person in the place complain about how much of a pain in the ass getting pain meds are.
Fuck the .gov for making this so hard on people. Who cares if a few are getting high? Really! Who gives a fuck compared to all the suffering people with legitimate needs have over this issue. It is STUPID! If I were King, I would have a big ass bowl right by the door, next to the candy jar and let people grab all the pain meds they wanted as they walked by every day. |
|
Quoted:
Fuck all junkie oxy abusers. They should all die. Stupid fucks taking shit they dont need just cause it feels good. I went to the doc last week to get an xray. Big medical building. I come out and this big titted old lady starts ranting how her pain management doctor wont give her more oxy. She asked me if I had any to spare. I dont take it but I said sure but I trade it for BJ's. She said OK. I said fuck you skank took and out my phone and she ran off. Fuck all junkie fucks. View Quote -Things that really happened. -The post above. Pick one. |
|
Quoted:
Before you decide that the government is doing a good thing, go to your local cancer center and sit in the treatment waiting room and listen to every person in the place complain about how much of a pain in the ass getting pain meds are. Fuck the .gov for making this so hard on people. Who cares if a few are getting high? Really! Who gives a fuck compared to all the suffering people with legitimate needs have over this issue. It is STUPID! If I were King, I would have a big ass bowl right by the door, next to the candy jar and let people grab all the pain meds they wanted as they walked by every day. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Gabapentin or lyrica for passing a stone? Are you an MD/DO/PharmD? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I saw a guy two days ago who was passing a stone. He got a shot of Toradol and #15 Norco, which is a 4 day supply if taken as ordered. They should've given you Gabapentin or Lyrica. Those can work quite well for shingles pain. Gabapentin is non-controlled and generic and cheap. Lyrica is Schedule V, which is the lowest level. But it's expensive. Opioids are only so-so for neurogenic pain. Are you an MD/DO/PharmD? And I was referring to Gabapentin or Lyrica as a treatment for shingles pain, called post-herpetic neuralgia. It's right there in the paragraph you quoted. The Toradol and Norco was a previous paragraph and was talking about how I treated a guy with stones. |
|
Quoted:
The basic problem isn't the doctors, it's the heroin and fentanyl being imported by the container load. Doctors are just an easier target so the politicians can claim they are doing something about it. View Quote |
|
Didn't read the wiole thread yet but where is this coming from? Last few months I've seen news about opioid addiction out of nowhere.
|
|
Because of the goody do-gooder cocksuckers I have had my daily oxycodone dosage cut from 150mg. to 50mg., which as it turns out doesn't do jack shit for my knee pain. I'm bone on bone in both knees. No cartilage left. Imagine someone sticking a red hot knife in your knee. That's my daily pain level if I am on my feet for more than 15 minutes. The oxycodone was working great. It didn't totally stop the pain, but it took the edge off. It was like a gift from God.
Now, I'm fucked. I'm not an addict. Never have been. I was on 150mg./day for 8 years. In January the doc (a pain specialist) said he could no longer write that much, and over a few months cut me down to 50mg. and then booted me along with all his other patients on oxycodone. A pain specialist boots all his patients on pain meds for fear of being sued or losing his license. Ain't that just fucking grand. So, now I use Aleve to supplement the 50mg. oxycodone. Unfortunately for me, that's dangerous, because I am on blood thinners and am told to avoid NSAIDs like the plague. NSAIDs can cause GI bleeding, and along Warfarin can kill a guy before he can get to the ER. You bleed out on the way and that's that. So, what options do I have? Take the 50mg./day oxycodone plus Aleve and function as a human being (kind of), but risk bleeding out, or take the oxycodone alone and suffer in fucking agony just getting out of the car to fill my tank. Thanks a lot for fucking me just to punish the drug abusers. That's very Christian of you. |
|
Quoted:
Your's is a very insightful comment. If the state threatens the license of physicians, they WILL decrease prescribing opioids. Then the .gov looks like they're "doing something" about the problem. Never mind that the boat loads of illicit drugs continue to pour in. And it's not like the state can simply threaten the license of the illegal importers, who are by definition, already breaking the law. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
The basic problem isn't the doctors, it's the heroin and fentanyl being imported by the container load. Doctors are just an easier target so the politicians can claim they are doing something about it. If "oxy" was never a thing in the druggie world, we may not be in this situation today. |
|
It’s amazing how much misinformation is out there to generate this narrative against prescription opioids. Some of it is even in this thread.
|
|
Quoted:
Your's is a very insightful comment. If the state threatens the license of physicians, they WILL decrease prescribing opioids. Then the .gov looks like they're "doing something" about the problem. Never mind that the boat loads of illicit drugs continue to pour in. And it's not like the state can simply threaten the license of the illegal importers, who are by definition, already breaking the law. View Quote "Pain is the fifth vital sign." "Make sure you document those pain scores" "Pain is subjective, so medicate it." "You can't judge another person's pain." "You have to take the patient's word for it" "treating pain is a JCAHO requirement" "not treating pain is racist" "It's unethical to not treat pain" "you're cruel if you don't treat pain aggressively" "pain relief is one of your highest duties as a physician" "This affects patient satisfaction scores" etc, etc, etc They've been coming at physicians about this issue from all sides, for >20 years... and now they're surprised that there's a problem? Only NOW? |
|
the VA started doing the same crap, although they do it a little differently. you call them and request a refill every 30 days, they tell the dr, and he refills it online, and they ups it to you basically the next day. if everyone had to report to the va each month and get evaluated for each new prescription, or just show up in person, it would swamp them, and be a clusterfuck.
they also started doing piss tests, like you work for them or something. they called me the other day and told me I had to come in for a piss test... like being in the fucking army again. |
|
Quoted:
If you don't think Doctor's over prescribe, I am here to tell they do and they do it big time. My Dad passed away in October of 2015, so my sister and I with her husband and my wife had to clean his house out and I am here to tell you he was a tough SOB, in the fridge, we found more than enough Morphine to kill most city blocks of addicts and in his closet, we found 20 6 month prescriptions bottles full of Hydrocodone and Oxycondone. He had never taken any of it, but they had set up a schedule that on the Morphine he got a new bottle ever single month and on the Hydro and Oxy he got a new 90 day bottle every 60 days, they were shipped to him through the mail or through FedEx, whether asked for them or not. He refused to take them until the last 3 days of his life and that was a drop of morphine every 4 hours, he started the dropper on Saturday and passed on Tuesday. But these fucking Doctors should be hung out to dry, they have so overdone this that they should loose their license and privileges... Every person that is on these Opioids, should be required to be re-evaluated every 30 days to make sure they are taking their prescriptions correctly and it is having the therapeutic benefits it can provide if taken correctly, even the most unsuspecting person can end up being addicted to them, I know I have taken enough of them in my life that I absolutely refuse them now, even if I am in massive pain, to many side effects that are detrimental. View Quote Fuck you majorly if you or the government get in the way of me or a loved one getting pain relief when and if I/we ever need it. |
|
Quoted:
Before you decide that the government is doing a good thing, go to your local cancer center and sit in the treatment waiting room and listen to every person in the place complain about how much of a pain in the ass getting pain meds are. Fark the .gov for making this so hard on people. Who cares if a few are getting high? Really! Who gives a fark compared to all the suffering people with legitimate needs have over this issue. It is STUPID! If I were King, I would have a big ass bowl right by the door, next to the candy jar and let people grab all the pain meds they wanted as they walked by every day. View Quote For chronic non-cancer pain, opioids should be the last option, not the first. And then, it should be the very lowest dose. The goal isn't to make people pain free (which often isn't possible). It's to make them functional in life. I've had little old ladies with severe arthritis taking Norco 5 mg before bed. They never escalate the dose and they get enough relief to sleep. No one is trying to make doctors stop writing this script. But look at any pain clinic and you'll see people taking Oxycontin 80 mg twice daily, Percocet 10/325 6 times daily, Xanax 2 mg three times daily, and Soma 4 times daily. And despite this, they're complaining of 12/10 pain and that they need more. For terminal cancer pain, almost anything goes. I was a hospice medical director for 3 years and would occasionally write very high doses of opioids for someone in the days or weeks before they died. Just yesterday, I learned that a friend of mine from high school was just diagnosed with Stage IV, metastatic lung cancer. 45 years old, married, 5 kids, life long non-smoker. He's got cancer everywhere. He's not expected to make it to Christmas. Cancer that's spread to the bones is usually horribly painful. If he's having pain, the pharmacy closet door will be thrown open and they'll use anything they have for him. Because addiction is no longer an issue. And cancer sucks! |
|
It is pathetic. They limited my wife' analgesia post back surgery, in hospital. She had to push the button herself or no go. Pills? Are you sure you need it? and on.
I have labyrinthitis and meclizine and benadryl were making me too tired. Valium please? 5 mg tid prn #30. On no. After two days of wrangling I got 15 pills ( I wanted some for back up) with no refills. I had to show a driver's license to pick them up from the pharm. And I am a retired Urologist. I think the docs are afraid of the DEA, employer pressure, and just afraid period. Baaa, baaaa! |
|
Quoted:
the VA started doing the same crap, although they do it a little differently. you call them and request a refill every 30 days, they tell the dr, and he refills it online, and they ups it to you basically the next day. if everyone had to report to the va each month and get evaluated for each new prescription, or just show up in person, it would swamp them, and be a clusterfark. they also started doing piss tests, like you work for them or something. they called me the other day and told me I had to come in for a piss test... like being in the farking army again. View Quote Unfortunately, you can't predict who is going to be in each category just by looking at them. Plenty of "respectable" people out there are selling their meds or taking plenty of extra junk. I've seen hospice patients selling their morphine. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that you're doing any of this. But enough people are that random urine drug tests are now considered the standard of care for opioid monitoring. Our clinic (175+ physicians) just had a board meeting about this very issue yesterday. |
|
It is pathetic. They limited my wife' analgesia post back surgery, in hospital. She had to push the button herself or no go. Pills? Are you sure you need it? and on.
I have labyrinthitis and meclizine and benadryl were making me too tired. Valium please? 5 mg tid prn #30. On no. After two days of wrangling I got 15 pills ( I wanted some for back up) with no refills. I had to show a driver's license to pick them up from the pharm. And I am a retired Urologist. I think the docs are afraid of the DEA, employer pressure, and just afraid period. Baaa, baaaa! |
|
Quoted:
It is pathetic. They limited my wife' analgesia post back surgery, in hospital. She had to push the button herself or no go. Pills? Are you sure you need it? and on. I have labyrinthitis and meclizine and benadryl were making me too tired. Valium please? 5 mg tid prn #30. On no. After two days of wrangling I got 15 pills ( I wanted some for back up) with no refills. I had to show a driver's license to pick them up from the pharm. And I am a retired Urologist. I think the docs are afraid of the DEA, employer pressure, and just afraid period. Baaa, baaaa! View Quote |
|
Quoted:
I find this whole epidemic to be so annoying. Yeah, Dr's obviously caused it with over prescribing pain meds. But it's not like they forced people to take the pills. Is it really that incredibly difficult to recognize you don't need to continue to take the prescribed pain meds and can switch to Tylenol or whatever. When I broke some bones in my hand 3 years ago they gave me 30 Vicodin after my surgery. I took 1 the day after and that was it. Maybe some Tylenol here or there. People want their pain completely taken away. They completely ignore the management part of pain management. They want pain obliteration. None at all. Btw none of what I said was meant toward someone with legitimate issues in need of pain meds. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
75% of all my heroin overdoses that I deal with the family reports it all started with being prescribed opiates and then got cut off. Don't know what the answer is but I got to believe the drug companies could engineer pain meds that aren't addictive if they wanted. Hell they came up with Viagra but it is all about profits. View Quote They have already. These are known as aspirin, acetaminophen, ibuprofen, gabapentin, and naproxin along with a few others. The industry is constantly trying to come up with a non-addictive pain remedy. Trust me; it is true. |
|
Retired 4 years.
Never took controlled substances before. I worked in Texas for 20 years and yes we had triplicate forms for narco. Valium is Sched 1 if I recall and should not be such trouble to obtain from my personal MD. Question is: Is there any limit to the dancing doctors will perform for the .gov? |
|
Quoted:
If you don't think Doctor's over prescribe, I am here to tell they do and they do it big time. My Dad passed away in October of 2015, so my sister and I with her husband and my wife had to clean his house out and I am here to tell you he was a tough SOB, in the fridge, we found more than enough Morphine to kill most city blocks of addicts and in his closet, we found 20 6 month prescriptions bottles full of Hydrocodone and Oxycondone. He had never taken any of it, but they had set up a schedule that on the Morphine he got a new bottle ever single month and on the Hydro and Oxy he got a new 90 day bottle every 60 days, they were shipped to him through the mail or through FedEx, whether asked for them or not. He refused to take them until the last 3 days of his life and that was a drop of morphine every 4 hours, he started the dropper on Saturday and passed on Tuesday. But these fucking Doctors should be hung out to dry, they have so overdone this that they should loose their license and privileges... Every person that is on these Opioids, should be required to be re-evaluated every 30 days to make sure they are taking their prescriptions correctly and it is having the therapeutic benefits it can provide if taken correctly, even the most unsuspecting person can end up being addicted to them, I know I have taken enough of them in my life that I absolutely refuse them now, even if I am in massive pain, to many side effects that are detrimental. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
I see you're struggling with this fundamental aspect too. OP's comment referenced the article stating that only a 7 day supply would be provided at the pharmacy. Then the OP complained that he'd have to go pick up a prescription every week, implying that OP thought that all scripts would now be a 7 day supply. I pointed out that, from the article, the 7 day limit is regarding short term acute pain and minor treatments. Go read the article. We'll wait. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Yep, reading is fundamental. What he said was his mother's prescription has gone from a six month script to a 30 day script. I pointed out that, from the article, the 7 day limit is regarding short term acute pain and minor treatments. Go read the article. We'll wait. |
|
Quoted:
Reading is fundamental. The initial 7 day script is when it's written for "short term pain management and minor treatments." Doctors can still write a 30 day script for chronic pain treatments. The key is trying to identify which patients are appropriate for long term opioid treatment. (Hint: most aren't.) View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Retired 4 years. Never took controlled substances before. I worked in Texas for 20 years and yes we had triplicate forms for narco. Valium is Sched 1 if I recall and should not be such trouble to obtain from my personal MD. Question is: Is there any limit to the dancing doctors will perform for the .gov? View Quote And as long as the government, i.e. State Medical Boards, control our license, there is no limit to the dancing. I suspect that surgeons, who typically limit pain treatment to immediate post-op pain, may not fully appreciate the issue affecting primary care and pain specialists. Not a criticism of surgeons, just a reflection of which types of patient and types of pain the different specialties treat. |
|
Quoted:
That requirement is not going to go away. In talking with my partners who are pain specialists, they find the following: 1. For some reason, none of the prescribed medication shows up in the urine sample, or 2. The prescribed med is present, along with severe other non-prescribed medicines, 3. The prescribed med is there and no illicit drugs are present. If #1 or #2 is present, the scripts are discontinued. Unfortunately, you can't predict who is going to be in each category just by looking at them. Plenty of "respectable" people out there are selling their meds or taking plenty of extra junk. I've seen hospice patients selling their morphine. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that you're doing any of this. But enough people are that random urine drug tests are now considered the standard of care for opioid monitoring. Our clinic (175+ physicians) just had a board meeting about this very issue yesterday. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
the VA started doing the same crap, although they do it a little differently. you call them and request a refill every 30 days, they tell the dr, and he refills it online, and they ups it to you basically the next day. if everyone had to report to the va each month and get evaluated for each new prescription, or just show up in person, it would swamp them, and be a clusterfark. they also started doing piss tests, like you work for them or something. they called me the other day and told me I had to come in for a piss test... like being in the farking army again. Unfortunately, you can't predict who is going to be in each category just by looking at them. Plenty of "respectable" people out there are selling their meds or taking plenty of extra junk. I've seen hospice patients selling their morphine. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that you're doing any of this. But enough people are that random urine drug tests are now considered the standard of care for opioid monitoring. Our clinic (175+ physicians) just had a board meeting about this very issue yesterday. Who are you to decide what "legitimate need" is? |
|
Quoted:
About this: They have already. These are known as aspirin, acetaminophen, ibuprofen, gabapentin, and naproxin along with a few others. The industry is constantly trying to come up with a non-addictive pain remedy. Trust me; it is true. View Quote Which one are you going to choose? Not to mention all the crap you mentioned eats your guts. |
|
Quoted:
Sorry you have bone cancer. Here's an aspirin. Here's some morphine. Which one are you going to choose? Not to mention all the crap you mentioned eats your guts. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
About this: They have already. These are known as aspirin, acetaminophen, ibuprofen, gabapentin, and naproxin along with a few others. The industry is constantly trying to come up with a non-addictive pain remedy. Trust me; it is true. Which one are you going to choose? Not to mention all the crap you mentioned eats your guts. As far as terminal patients friend of mine is a palliative care specialists, she could put some cartels to shame but then again most of her patients don't last a few weeks, month or two at most. |
|
Quoted:
Just had surgery a few weeks ago and Walgreens ( according to the wife, I was too stoned at the time too remember) has gone to a 7 day supply limit. The local supermarket pharmacy had not. It may be OP is getting pharmacy rules mixed up with FDA/DEA rules. View Quote My prosecutor friend told me the pills had a local street value of $40 each. That would make her prescription worth $1,800 on the street. He also told me that now since they are doing 30 day prescriptions, there is a rise in crime and general craziness at the end of every month, because the junkies have all run out, and new prescriptions aren't being filled until the first of the month. That's when they start looking for whatever they can find. Then come the first, things settle down a bit. |
|
|
i had pretty serious foot surgery a year ago. Im constantly surprised at how many people don't give a shit how my foot is when they hear about it but feel compelled to quietly ask "did you have a problem getting off the pain meds"?
my mom had knee and back surgery and wouldn't take her pain meds because she "didn't want to become an addict" the media has successfully put out there "if you take this, you'll be come an addict" |
|
Sorry, I don't recall the Schedules since I retired.
I meant to say that valium is low addiction potential and I had never asked for it before. Personally I never used percodan in practice because if that was what a patient needed for an acute or subacute disorder I thought he should be hospitalized... I have seen, at a medical center, that oxycodone seems to be the narcotic of initial choice, and I was shocked. I don't understand why doctors would be loose with narcotics. Different training? Different type people in medicine now? The whole narco epidemic overhyped? I was in practice in the center of the time medicine went from a cottage industry to corporate practice and that is why I said, "baaa, baaa." P.S.: I was never offered or payed or otherwise rewarded for using a specific drug, ever. P.P.S.: I agree about the difference between surgeon and medical practice patient experience. F |
|
Quoted:
Before you decide that the government is doing a good thing, go to your local cancer center and sit in the treatment waiting room and listen to every person in the place complain about how much of a pain in the ass getting pain meds are. Fuck the .gov for making this so hard on people. Who cares if a few are getting high? Really! Who gives a fuck compared to all the suffering people with legitimate needs have over this issue. It is STUPID! View Quote I have several degenerated discs. I had surgery in July and am pain free for the time being, but the surgeon told me to expect to need more surgeries in the future. |
|
The gov should be buying it and handing it out like candy to everyone of age who wants it
Quickest way to sort out the preponderance of idiots in the gene pool we seem to suffer under But then they would loose their herd of reliable participants in our 'democracy' |
|
Quoted:
Humor me and ask your mom how much pain she's in with the drugs. Then ask when they meds are out of her system. Lots of studies show chronic narcotic use doesn't equal chronic pain relief. Case in point: did a knee arthroscope on a morbidly obese woman yesterday that takes Norco 10/325 4 times daily. Immediately after waking up she complained of pain. Wierd, because we gave her 20ml of lidocaine (10 per incision site), 50 ml of marcaine into the joint, and 100mg fentanyl in the OR. Literally she shouldn't have felt anything. Lido and marcaine don't work the same as opiates, she shouldn't have any tolerance. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Yes, it will continue to tighten. But perhaps you could suggest to her doctor to get with the program and start e-prescribing controlled substances. It's allowed in nearly all states, but takes a bit of setup. The script is transmitted directly to the pharmacy from the physician's computer. Much faster, more convenient and safer than writing a paper script. I send e-scripts daily for all my medications. I don't print any of them any more. And in New York State, it's mandatory. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Valium is Schedule IV, which is reasonably low risk. Same category as Ambien. And as long as the government, i.e. State Medical Boards, control our license, there is no limit to the dancing. I suspect that surgeons, who typically limit pain treatment to immediate post-op pain, may not fully appreciate the issue affecting primary care and pain specialists. Not a criticism of surgeons, just a reflection of which types of patient and types of pain the different specialties treat. View Quote And benzo withdrawal is no joke. ETA: all of which you know... I'm just putting it out there for the non-clinicians. |
|
Try living in wv. You have to get your skull crushed to get pain meds. If these addicts didnt have heroin they would be huffing gold paint from dollar general.
|
|
Well, as long as I am in on this thread:
Perhaps some physicians, P.A.'s, and nurse practitioners have learned to "bend with the wind." Physicians are often seen as mere distributors of health care (providers) by patients and .gov. Incessant patient and family demand for something (in this case, narcotics) Patient evaluation of quality of care to clinic HQ or on line. Fear one's contract may not be renewed. and finally, burnout-->just can't take it anymore; take what you want. Doubts? NO doubts. F |
|
Quoted:
The Govt, and credentialing/regulatory agencies created this. About 20 years ago it started... I watched it happen. When the "culture of pain" became a thing, and the aggressive treatment of pain became part of medicine's official canon (despite the reservations expressed by physicians about abuse and addiction), this was inevitable. "Pain is the fifth vital sign." "Make sure you document those pain scores" "Pain is subjective, so medicate it." "You can't judge another person's pain." "You have to take the patient's word for it" "treating pain is a JCAHO requirement" "not treating pain is racist" "It's unethical to not treat pain" "you're cruel if you don't treat pain aggressively" "pain relief is one of your highest duties as a physician" "This affects patient satisfaction scores" etc, etc, etc They've been coming at physicians about this issue from all sides, for >20 years... and now they're surprised that there's a problem? Only NOW? View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Humor me and ask your mom how much pain she's in with the drugs. Then ask when they meds are out of her system. Lots of studies show chronic narcotic use doesn't equal chronic pain relief. Case in point: did a knee arthroscope on a morbidly obese woman yesterday that takes Norco 10/325 4 times daily. Immediately after waking up she complained of pain. Wierd, because we gave her 20ml of lidocaine (10 per incision site), 50 ml of marcaine into the joint, and 100mg fentanyl in the OR. Literally she shouldn't have felt anything. Lido and marcaine don't work the same as opiates, she shouldn't have any tolerance. View Quote Wife and I both had this done about 4 weeks ago, torn meniscus. Same place, same doc, about 30 minutes apart. She went 1st. When I woke up, HOLY SHIT IT FRIGGING HURT!!!!!! Wife took a pic of us, she was as happy as could be. So here I am, tomorrow will be 4 weeks, and I'm worse off than I was before. |
|
There is no good answer currently, there really isn't.
I've seen all sides of the arguments countless times, and the only solution is to actually find a medication that works as well as narcotics for acute and chronic pain, but has no addiction potential. It's the holy grail of pain management. Once upon a time in NY, hydrocodone/apap (Vicodin, Norco) was schedule III, standard paper script, and oxycodone/apap (Percocet) was schedule II, required a "triplicate" prescription. No limits on quantities per script, but no refills on the "triplicates". The result of this was drug seeking patients changing the refills on the schedule III's to 4, or 5. Also, since there was no tracking at the pharmacy level, they could do the same thing from more than one provider, and use multiple pharmacies, keep a steady supply. Then NY decided to stop allowing any refills on any schedule narcotic. Otherwise the system stayed the same. So patients started stealing prescription pads and forging their own. That happened to me once, an interesting story in it's own right, but I digress.... So NY, in its wisdom, decided to make hydrocodone meds schedule II, put it onto "triplicates", except providers got really upset, because NY charged us to purchase "triplicates". The answer to this was to provide us new prescription pads, supplied by the state, "free" of charge. Not sure which pocket they appropriated the massive funding for this from, but to provide prescription pads to every provider, registered, serialized and on tamper proof security feature paper was ridiculously expensive. And hey, while we're at it, lets just make every prescription, regardless of medication or schedule, go onto the new pads. That will certainly save some money. The net result of this was to see a dramatic sudden increase in street drug use. We also started to see an uptick in armed robbery for meds at the pharmacy and provider office level, and the new pads were being stolen too. Plus costs for pads were spiraling out of control, it was incredibly time consuming at the pharmacy to enter all the info for tracking purposes, and we also had the (always a problem) handwriting and medication error issues to deal with. The answer to this was to mandate full electronic prescribing for every provider, for every prescription. They put a deadline on it, and as it approached not only wasn't the state ready, but a huge amount of providers weren't set up either. The backlog was months long. So they put it off a year, and in March 2016, it became the law across the state. I have no idea of the total costs to implement this across the board, but the number must be staggering. It cost me alone almost 60K, because I needed to use practice management software that was compatible with the state level software, so I had to get that, and of course, the new software didn't want to play nicely with my existing hardware, so 10 workstations needed to be replaced, and the training for all the components took two full days, etc, etc, etc. But, to it's credit, the pharmacies don't have to decipher poor penmanship anymore, and it is much harder to game the system. On the downside, is that it takes me a few minutes, per patient, to click and type my way through, and since I write anywhere from 50-60 scripts per day, it adds a not insignificant burden to my day. So the system has been in place for a year and a half, the street drug issues are still rising, oversight is ridiculous and time consuming, more and more providers are backing away from narcotics partially or entirely, real patients are suffering, and there is still no good solution. <<side anecdote>> Maybe 15 years ago an NSAID called Duract hit the marketplace. It was the most potent and effective NSAID that had ever been available, and in every single clinical study it was conclusively demonstrated to be more effective at managing acute pain than 20mg of oxycodone per dose. It was awesome. I took such pleasure in giving it to all the drug seekers. They sent providers these beautiful full color posters, "One Duract more potent than Two Percocet". They left happy, until of course, they didn't get high. Sorry Charlie, you're S.O.L. Unfortunately, it was such a good acute pain reliever that it started to get used a lot, and then it started to get used for chronic pain, even though there was a black box warning for maximum 5 days use. Patients started to have serious issues, and it was pulled from the market. Narcotic use, and abuse, is, always was, and always will be a difficult problem to manage. My apologies to all the good people suffering because my colleagues have gotten gun shy. And my apologies to all the families of the addicts that got hooked by overprescribing and inappropriate prescribing. Until we find the magic elixir, or legalize everything and let the chips fall where they may, we're stuck. |
|
Quoted:
There is no good answer currently, there really isn't. >snip< legalize everything and let the chips fall where they may. View Quote How much crime would there be if these drugs were virtually free and uncontrolled? How much of the crime is committed because people are on drugs vs committed so people can have the money to obtain the drugs they want which are overly controlled, black marketed and therefore artificially high in price? |
|
Quoted:
I'm of the opinion that having any part of public payor reimbursement tied to patient satisfaction is evil. How many patients that should have gotten NSAIDs alone or Tramadol were bumped up to, say, 5/500 hydrocodone in the last 10 years because hospital management was concerned about reimbursment? Not directly of course, but harping about patient satisfaction and pain management will subtly push prescribing habits. View Quote Nothing. Non-providers have no idea how pervasive it is... I'm not exaggerating when I say this has been a long-term and growing pressure on physicians. Particularly when your government agencies are literally tracking "door-to-pain-medication times" (yes, that's actually a thing) as one of the "Core Measures" of quality care... and JCAHO has been using "assessment and management of pain" as a quality standard since 2001... And JCAHO has been using pain management to satisfy ORYX performance measurement requirements for Quality Care... And the Institute for Healthcare Improvement includes pain management as part of their "Triple Aim" to reduce costs and improve care... and these "quality measures" are publicly reported by CMS/Medicare and used to grade hospitals on Quality... And the FedGov financially penalizes hospitals that don't treat pain "adequately" Gosh... I wonder why overprescribing has become a problem. I repeat... the FedGov and accreditation/certification agencies have been driving this train for a LONG time. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.