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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:24:25 AM EDT
[#1]
Imagine you have a wood shed. The wood is rotted through and through and no paint job is going to restore structural integrity back to the structure. The only real solution is to tear it down and start over. Slapping good wood onto rotted wood or foundation does not fix the structure.
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:25:09 AM EDT
[#2]
Our protectors have become our masters.
The Liberty Tree needs watering. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:27:41 AM EDT
[#3]
This thread needs a smoking poll.
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:28:04 AM EDT
[#4]
It means that whoever said it is delusional for thinking that it can be fixed. The well has been poisoned, and this country is doomed.
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:29:56 AM EDT
[#5]
I guess it means destroy what is here atm in the hope we can win and rebuild
Basically war I don't want that, but, I see why people see it as an option ETA if this violates CoC ill edit it. I'm not advocating it, just answering what I think OPs question means |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:30:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Burning it down will take to long.
Where's the asteroid? |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:30:10 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:31:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: I thought about adding a poll but that's just lazy and doesn't provide nuance. There have been a bunch of threads complaining about weak Republican leadership and I keep hearing "burn it all down" as a solution for the problems that people see. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what people mean by that, so I'd like to get people to explain what they mean by that term in the most specific way possible. It could mean anything from "write an angry letter to your congressman" to "I want to see the entire country in flames and blood running in the streets". My interpretation when I see someone post that has always skewed toward that latter since "burn it all down" is sort of an apocalyptic vision. Maybe I'm wrong though. If you offer your definition, I would also like you to think about the end goal you have in mind that the burning down is done. What does the country look like, why does it look like it does after it's all said and done, and what is better about it - that sort of thing. Poor form for a Mod to troll for CoC violations from the commentariat. I'll just say, as I understand it, the CoC prohibits calling for the destruction of fellow Americans, and leave it at that. Sentiments such as what you're asking for explanations of, are simply indicative of Bezhemov-ian demoralization of the speaker. The speaker feels that their current governance is both wrong and unable to be fixed or reformed. That's all. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:36:24 AM EDT
[#9]
The easiest and least destructive “fire” would be Balkanization. But, that has its own set of problems.
The ‘management’ of this country has brought us to a point that we can’t pull back from. There will be a “fire”. How it starts had yet to be determined. It will spontaneously combust if left untended. The management thinks they can keep it smoldering and continue benefiting from its warmth. I don’t have the same level of confidence. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:36:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our protectors have become our masters. The Liberty Tree needs watering. Came here to post this. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:37:10 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine you have a wood shed. The wood is rotted through and through and no paint job is going to restore structural integrity back to the structure. The only real solution is to tear it down and start over. Slapping good wood onto rotted wood or foundation does not fix the structure. Be specific. You analogy extends poorly to country of 330 million people. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:40:02 AM EDT
[#12]
What have the rinos done for us when we've rewarded them with our votes?
They don't give a shit about us or our concerns. They keep "reaching" across the aisle and we keep taking it up the ass. Did they defund Fuckatf? Did they deny the ffbi the new building for their abuses? I have way less freedom than I used to have, and the slavery train ain't slowing down anytime soon. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:40:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Poor form for a Mod to troll for CoC violations from the commentariat. I'll just say, as I understand it, the CoC prohibits calling for the destruction of fellow Americans, and leave it at that. Sentiments such as what you're asking for explanations of, are simply indicative of Bezhemov-ian demoralization of the speaker. The speaker feels that their current governance is both wrong and unable to be fixed or reformed. That's all. I'm not trolling - I'm asking what people mean when they say things, not as a vague pie-in-the-sky idea, but a specific example. People defining what a term means is not punishable anyway. I'm not out to get anyone. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:41:00 AM EDT
[#14]
No one, except maybe one person, has defined what it SPECIFICALLY means to them.
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:42:33 AM EDT
[#15]
I almost never use the expression "burn it all down" expression, so...
In most cases, I don't think it literally involves fire. I think it usually means letting things collapse on their own. No bailouts. "Burn it down" sounds like an active measure, but it's more often passive. Take Bud Light for example. It's being "burned down" by people doing nothing. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:46:16 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No one, except maybe one person, has defined what it SPECIFICALLY means to them. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:48:11 AM EDT
[#17]
I prefer an 5km size asteroid on DC to be honest, but that's just me.
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:50:49 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No one, except maybe one person, has defined what it SPECIFICALLY means to them. You're asking for more certainty of the actions and outcomes than what the guys that signed their names to a piece of parchment a couple hundred years ago, had. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:51:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a good reason for that. I think the Code of Conduct here prohibits people from spelling it out when they say that. At least that is my take when I see people say it. So in your opinion, when people say "burn it all down" they DO mean they're basically calling for the destruction of our country as it exists today? I guess my interpretation was correct then. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:51:29 AM EDT
[#20]
To me it means people are delusional and idiots. They think if they burn something all the way down, ie destroy most of it, that something better will magically replace it with even less effort that it would have taken to fix the initial problems they were complaining about.
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:52:27 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're asking for more certainty of the actions and outcomes than what the guys that signed their names to a piece of parchment a couple hundred years ago, had. I'm sure they had some idea of what it meant to establish the country. Whether it would work out the way they envisioned it is a different thing. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to at least be able to define in some way what they are calling for. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:53:33 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a good reason for that. I think the Code of Conduct here prohibits people from spelling it out when they say that. At least that is my take when I see people say it. I’d say Lug hit that nail on the head. At the moment we are still free to think what we want. If we articulated or write what we actually feel and think we would be outed to the Metropolitan Police, federal authorities (public/private partnership), doxxed and lives destroyed for wrong think. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:53:44 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our protectors have become our masters. The Liberty Tree needs watering. Not much left to say. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:54:24 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So in your opinion, when people say "burn it all down" they DO mean they're basically calling for the destruction of our country as it exists today? I guess my interpretation was correct then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There is a good reason for that. I think the Code of Conduct here prohibits people from spelling it out when they say that. At least that is my take when I see people say it. So in your opinion, when people say "burn it all down" they DO mean they're basically calling for the destruction of our country as it exists today? I guess my interpretation was correct then. But I dont think it has to do with the DESTRUCTION of our country, no. I am gonna leave it at that. But I dont think you characterized my statement accurately. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:55:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No one, except maybe one person, has defined what it SPECIFICALLY means to them. Burn: verb, to destroy, damage, or injure by heat or fire It: pronoun, used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified. All: predeterminer, used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing. Down: adverb, toward or in a lower place or position, especially to or on the ground or another surface. Hope this helps! |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:56:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our protectors have become our masters. The Liberty Tree needs watering. That's a completely useless explanation and gives no details whatsoever. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:57:07 AM EDT
[#27]
A return to accountability. Those shirking that responsibility currently will not willingly be judged for their failures. It will require unconventional methods to return the power of governance to the people. Burn is a metaphor. 'It' is the word that needs to be focused on and is the source of the problem. This is always the case.
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:57:22 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine you have a wood shed. The wood is rotted through and through and no paint job is going to restore structural integrity back to the structure. The only real solution is to tear it down and start over. Slapping good wood onto rotted wood or foundation does not fix the structure. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:58:12 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Means different things to different people. I dont believe I am burn it all down term user. Cant remember doing so, maybe I had an emotional outburst somewhere. But I dont think it has to do with the DESTRUCTION of our country, no. I am gonna leave it at that. But I dont think you characterized my statement accurately. Sorry - I didn't mean to imply that you personally stand for that. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:58:14 AM EDT
[#30]
Fire and or prosecute every politician, mayor, LE, etc. that is circumventing laws of the United States.
Immigration - We have clear laws passed by congress and they are not enforced. Crime - Flash mobs looting or small groups and nothing is done. Inflation - Gov printing money that devalues earned dollars and adding real debt on top of it. Time for another tea party of sorts / burn it down if you prefer. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:58:23 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a completely useless explanation and gives no details whatsoever. In some states, it’s a crime to hunt over baited fields. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:58:49 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What have the rinos done for us when we've rewarded them with our votes? They don't give a shit about us or our concerns. They keep "reaching" across the aisle and we keep taking it up the ass. Did they defund Fuckatf? Did they deny the ffbi the new building for their abuses? I have way less freedom than I used to have, and the slavery train ain't slowing down anytime soon. Does anyone in congress really give a shit about us? IMO, they only care about re-election and the amount of graft they can rake in. -and- Civil War 2.0 is only a matter of time. The democrats are a disease and rebellion is the cure. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:59:04 AM EDT
[#33]
I would like to see a shift in the mindset of the political right away from loyalty to the United States, and towards loyalty to a new political state, even if just intellectually for the time being.
What I mean by that is that we ought to pin our hopes on what we want to build, even if it does not exist presently, before we keep throwing our efforts after a country that has no current vestiges of conservative representation, and is outright hostile to our continued existence. To that end, it would suit me quite well to see the US fail, crumble, fall, falter, fuck up, etc. I really don't care. They hate us. I think there's power in adopting the narrative that it is us that are the oppressed victims living under occupation, that we are the resistance, they are the establishment, the oppressors, the despised ruling class. There doesn't even have to be an actual war, or a literal burning of even a garbage can. What's important is that the breaker switch in the conservative mind finally flips-- stop waving the red white and blue, because they hate you. I can't tell you what flag to wave yet, but the important thing is that we start to disassociate ourselves from the political and economic institutions which view us as offal from their Frankenstein's monster they've cobbled together. We are refuse to them, and they are actively trying everything they can, short of long ditches (for now) to get rid of us, or to unperson us from their public institutions. We ought to stop thinking we can take anything back and focus on making something new, uniquely ours and gatekept from their clutches and influence with the goal that we will, at some indeterminate point in the future, take back the whole. The energy of creation will always beat the energy of destruction which will always beat the energy of conservation. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 11:59:51 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fire and or prosecute every politician, mayor, LE, etc. that is circumventing laws of the United States. Immigration - We have clear laws passed by congress and they are not enforced. Crime - Flash mobs looting or small groups and nothing is done. Inflation - Gov printing money that devalues earned dollars and adding real debt on top of it. Time for another tea party of sorts / burn it down if you prefer. You have stated why you're angry, and I agree with you on those things. You didn't define how a tea party of sorts would change that. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:00:13 PM EDT
[#35]
“It has always been easy to hate and destroy. To build and to cherish is much more difficult.”
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:00:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Rub one out, have a whiskey and watch.
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:01:37 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:01:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure they had some idea of what it meant to establish the country. Whether it would work out the way they envisioned it is a different thing. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to at least be able to define in some way what they are calling for. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You're asking for more certainty of the actions and outcomes than what the guys that signed their names to a piece of parchment a couple hundred years ago, had. I'm sure they had some idea of what it meant to establish the country. Whether it would work out the way they envisioned it is a different thing. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to at least be able to define in some way what they are calling for. The Revolution was basically, "We don't like the current system, here are a bunch of novel ideas detailing why we can take up arms to get away from the current system. Don't know what is going to happen afterwards, but we'll either be dead or not under the current system. Maybe, maybe not. Don't know, we'll see." |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:02:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would like to see a shift in the mindset of the political right away from loyalty to the United States, and towards loyalty to a new political state, even if just intellectually for the time being. What I mean by that is that we ought to pin our hopes on what we want to build, even if it does not exist presently, before we keep throwing our efforts after a country that has no current vestiges of conservative representation, and is outright hostile to our continued existence. To that end, it would suit me quite well to see the US fail, crumble, fall, falter, fuck up, etc. I really don't care. They hate us. I think there's power in adopting the narrative that it is us that are the oppressed victims living under occupation, that we are the resistance, they are the establishment, the oppressors, the despised ruling class. There doesn't even have to be an actual war, or a literal burning of even a garbage can. What's important is that the breaker switch in the conservative mind finally flips-- stop waving the red white and blue, because they hate you. I can't tell you what flag to wave yet, but the important thing is that we start to disassociate ourselves from the political and economic institutions which view us as offal from their Frankenstein's monster they've cobbled together. We are refuse to them, and they are actively trying everything they can, short of long ditches (for now) to get rid of us, or to unperson us from their public institutions. We ought to stop thinking we can take anything back and focus on making something new, uniquely ours and gatekept from their clutches and influence with the goal that we will, at some indeterminate point in the future, take back the whole. The energy of creation will always beat the energy of destruction which will always beat the energy of conservation. Thanks for going into any sort of detail. There's nothing wrong with not knowing what the actual outcome might be, but I do think it ought to at least be part of the equation, don't you agree? Take, for example, your comment of "it would suit me quite well to see the US fail, crumble, fall, falter, fuck up, etc. I really don't care". You say you don't care, but have you thought about the best-case and worst-case scenarios of what that might mean to you and those around you? |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:02:48 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Be specific. You analogy extends poorly to country of 330 million people. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Imagine you have a wood shed. The wood is rotted through and through and no paint job is going to restore structural integrity back to the structure. The only real solution is to tear it down and start over. Slapping good wood onto rotted wood or foundation does not fix the structure. Be specific. You analogy extends poorly to country of 330 million people. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:03:06 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:03:06 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryDouble tap |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:05:28 PM EDT
[#43]
People are tired of the obvious double standards.
 Bill Clinton It Depends on what the meaning of the word is is |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:06:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So in your opinion, when people say "burn it all down" they DO mean they're basically calling for the destruction of our country as it exists today? I guess my interpretation was correct then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There is a good reason for that. I think the Code of Conduct here prohibits people from spelling it out when they say that. At least that is my take when I see people say it. So in your opinion, when people say "burn it all down" they DO mean they're basically calling for the destruction of our country as it exists today? I guess my interpretation was correct then. Arfcom draws intelligent successful people together, who have no where else to discuss the topics which cannot be discussed in public. Arf also draws bitter losers, full of rage. These days, even the successful winners, harbor disgust and anger, well controlled and carefully concealed. It could mean a lot of things, but mostly it’s an expression of impotent rage. The equivalent of “AAAAaaaaagggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!” |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:07:20 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not trolling - I'm asking what people mean when they say things, not as a vague pie-in-the-sky idea, but a specific example. People defining what a term means is not punishable anyway. I'm not out to get anyone. at a minimum, it means the complete destruction and replacement of the bureaucracy, deep state, justice system, etc. perfectly happy to start over with the exact same constitution and structure, but all the court rulings, legal precedents, billion pages of stupid laws, entitlements, regulatory structures, etc that have been enacted in the past 200 years have got to go. fire every single federal gov employee outside the mil and start over. there's really no way to get rid of the corruption in the system. you just have to replace the whole system. it's not working for anyone. last i checked congress approval rating was around 20%. nobody likes it. get rid of it. start over. personally, i'd strongly prefer we reread the federalist papers and learn from our mistakes and recreate a federal gov that is sub to the States, is not ever allowed to tax anyone or anything or ever allowed to have debt or enforcement powers. the States should fund the federal gov, not the other way around. And we should rethink standing armies and forever wars. if the benefits of this are not obvious, i can't help you. the pain it's going to take to make it happen is also obvious (thus the phrase "burn it down"), but we're going to have pain one way or another. it may as well be productive with a brighter future. eta: if that's not specific enough, i mean a constitutional convention. possible outcomes are disband the federal gov entirely and just be 50 independent states (red states can sign treaties and form an economic union), or replace the fed gov with a new one. if red and blue states part and become 2 or more separate entities (aka balkanization) i'm ok with that too. I'm even ok with a more urban/rural divide, but we don't have the poitical infrastructure at the state level to make that happen without shooting. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:09:01 PM EDT
[#46]
In your first post, you give the example of someone saying they want to "burn it all down" when specifically talking about a weak Republican party, and then you go on to refer to that as burning down the entire country. Since when does the Republican party equal the United States of America? When someone is saying "burn it all down" you seem to be assuming the word "it" always means the entire country. Can you not conceive that someone is simply saying "burn down the Republican party and replace it with something better"? You keep asking people to "be specific" in reply to their answers, yet your question itself was not specific.
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:10:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your interpretation Is correct. Arfcom draws intelligent successful people together, who have no where else to discuss the topics which cannot be discussed in public. Arf also draws bitter losers, full of rage. These days, even the successful winners, harbor disgust and anger, well controlled and carefully concealed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is a good reason for that. I think the Code of Conduct here prohibits people from spelling it out when they say that. At least that is my take when I see people say it. So in your opinion, when people say "burn it all down" they DO mean they're basically calling for the destruction of our country as it exists today? I guess my interpretation was correct then. Your interpretation Is correct. Arfcom draws intelligent successful people together, who have no where else to discuss the topics which cannot be discussed in public. Arf also draws bitter losers, full of rage. These days, even the successful winners, harbor disgust and anger, well controlled and carefully concealed. Excellent description which extends into society as a whole. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:10:32 PM EDT
[#48]
to me it means destroy all the systems and institutions, and start over.
Personally, I'm afraid of what would replace things. It would surely be worse. But also my patience only goes so far and eventually I long for the cold embrace of anarchy if only for a respite from the feckless and crooked government ruling over us. I'd likely die in short order, but maybe I'd like to try my hand at warlording and keeping a harem of thicc booty soccer moms just the same. I have a sense that this interpretation lines up with most people's interpretation. So what I'm saying is, maybe we're not just disgruntled but we're also bored. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:11:04 PM EDT
[#49]
The Phoenix rising out of the ashes of the past troubles and tribulations maybe?
I've never used that term, but I guess it could very well mean different things to different kinds of individuals from many different and diversified kinds of places. Like, the difference between small town Texas and Chicago Illinois perhaps. |
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Posted: 11/14/2023 12:11:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “It has always been easy to hate and destroy. To build and to cherish is much more difficult.” The version I'm fond of, "it's much easier to blow up trains than to get them to run on time." A regular refrain in reference to governments made up of former rebel groups. Burn it all down, what does that mean to me? Generally I think of it as the mass execution of political opponents. I also try not to call for it because 1. Mass murder is usually illegal. 2. There is no guarantee that it is going to go in a way that you will want. 3. As pussy as this sounds. My health is awful. I simply don't have the physical strengh to go out and kill large numbers of people. Even if they are unarmed. This large scale death is a thing simply because even if staunch, upstanding Republicans were to somehow seize control of the entire political establishment. Not bloody likely, but even if they did their enemies would still be in control of the mainstream media and many other things and would constantly be working to continue the current plans for the enslavement and large scale paring down of the human race. All that said, it is becoming more clear every day that various entities in this country and around the world want to enforce their whims with murderous force. There's a saying I've heard attributed to Trotsky. "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you." I hope that this comes across as a reasonable analysis of a very unreasonable subject. |
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