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Posted: 10/7/2023 3:17:08 PM EDT
[#1]
For those who don’t like the LOP or awkward selector on the VHS, a standard A1 or A2 pistol grip is a bigger improvement than you would think over the OEM grip. The greater sweep back helps a good bit with both.
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Posted: 10/7/2023 4:42:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it makes you feel better, I own no AR worth more than $1000.  What is this 'AR' you speak of?...  |
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Posted: 10/7/2023 5:07:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Best bullpup? Is that like "Sexiest Midget Stripper?"
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Posted: 10/7/2023 11:58:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those who don’t like the LOP or awkward selector on the VHS, a standard A1 or A2 pistol grip is a bigger improvement than you would think over the OEM grip. The greater sweep back helps a good bit with both. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/26154/IMG_6134_jpeg-2982634.JPG The painted selector settings bug me without a full auto setting. It highlights infringement. If PSA or Spikes made it it would at least have something funny like a fling poo option. |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 1:44:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The painted selector settings bug me without a full auto setting. It highlights infringement. If PSA or Spikes made it it would at least have something funny like a fling poo option. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For those who don’t like the LOP or awkward selector on the VHS, a standard A1 or A2 pistol grip is a bigger improvement than you would think over the OEM grip. The greater sweep back helps a good bit with both. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/26154/IMG_6134_jpeg-2982634.JPG The painted selector settings bug me without a full auto setting. It highlights infringement. If PSA or Spikes made it it would at least have something funny like a fling poo option. I suppose one could have the markings of their choice added if they were so inclined. Although I think the fling poo option is best suited for an AK (since we can't get the INSAS, but would we really want it?). |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 2:21:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suppose one could have the markings of their choice added if they were so inclined. Although I think the fling poo option is best suited for an AK (since we can't get the INSAS, but would we really want it?). Now markings on the AK never bothered me because I can’t read them. Ironically I have a Perst and it bothers the crap out of me because I can’t read them. Maybe it needs red paint on the dangerous setting. |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 6:13:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Best bullpup? Is that like "Sexiest Midget Stripper?" What's the matter with you? You SexMidStrip-phobic or something?...
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Posted: 10/8/2023 6:57:14 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They all fail my litmus test. Hellion= springfield (don't forget what they tried to do) Tavor= israel (politics) AUG= looks like a uncut penis. (elephant trunk) With that said, I have no suggestion for an alternative. The AUG is likely the most proven. Don't know much about the hellion. For a long range gun, I'm not picking a bull pup. For short ranges, I'm going tavor as it's the best at that given its lineage with a side helping of supporting Israel |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 7:45:04 AM EDT
[#9]
I like my hellion. As soon as I figure out an overtravel stop on the trigger to shorten reset it will be even better.
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Posted: 10/8/2023 8:00:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He nailed it with the "big titty goth" concept. 
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Posted: 10/8/2023 8:36:50 AM EDT
[#11]
I have handled and shot all mentioned, none were impressive enough to buy for what they usually sell for.
I then got a killer deal on an X95, with a little help with the aftermarket, it is a KEEPER. My only complaint with the X95, I wish it had an adjustable gas system for suppressor use. That said, if I use SDN6 suppressor, it is not terribly gassy. 
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Posted: 10/8/2023 10:07:03 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The politics of the tavor is a plus to me. The AUG is likely the most proven. Don't know much about the hellion. For a long range gun, I'm not picking a bull pup. For short ranges, I'm going tavor as it's the best at that given its lineage with a side helping of supporting Israel How long a range are we talking here? With a 3x magnifier, my X95's will do 1.5" 5-shot groups at 100yds using PMC X-Tac M193. That's better accuracy than I was expecting or will probably ever need (ymmv). |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 10:37:22 AM EDT
[#13]
I saw Steyr was releasing a .300BLK AUG. I wonder how long a 10" AUG would be? Slap a red dot on it and that'd be an interesting PDW.
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Posted: 10/8/2023 10:57:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I saw Steyr was releasing a .300BLK AUG. I wonder how long a 10" AUG would be? Slap a red dot on it and that'd be an interesting PDW. It’s been out a while and will be here eventually. I’m interested in the new gas system. It’s less reliable with lower bore pressure. Sounds like a perfect use for a suppressor. |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 11:29:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Need to take a new photo with the Hellion https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/9714/bullpups2021-2230669.jpg All those beautiful rifles and no FN FS2000? Have you ever tried one out? I used to really like mine..But have gotten rid of all my bull pups and stayed with AR15 just for ease of getting parts and the logistics of staying with just one system. |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 11:36:25 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I saw Steyr was releasing a .300BLK AUG. I wonder how long a 10" AUG would be? Slap a red dot on it and that'd be an interesting PDW. |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 11:38:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have handled and shot all mentioned, none were impressive enough to buy for what they usually sell for. I then got a killer deal on an X95, with a little help with the aftermarket, it is a KEEPER. My only complaint with the X95, I wish it had an adjustable gas system for suppressor use. That said, if I use SDN6 suppressor, it is not terribly gassy. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/77315/20220116_094728-2242173.jpg What's frustrating with that is they already make an adjustable gas system (two position selector switch), it's not just made for he 5.56 version. The .300 Blk version has it though. Unfortunately it's in a shitty location. Inset in the top rail, right where you'd want to set an optic. |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 11:43:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I saw Steyr was releasing a .300BLK AUG. I wonder how long a 10" AUG would be? Slap a red dot on it and that'd be an interesting PDW. As others have pointed out, a 10” AUG isn’t possible due to the location of the gas port/piston. Even at 16” it would be as short as a 10.5” AR. |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 11:53:09 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As others have pointed out, a 10” AUG isn’t possible due to the location of the gas port/piston. Even at 16” it would be as short as a 10.5” AR. So, they're going to release the AUG in a caliber optimized for a 9" barrel; but you can only have it in a 16" barrel, where it gets you maybe 175-200fps more? That strikes me as an odd choice. At least in 5.56, you're talking a significant difference in effective range for the tradeoffs. |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 12:01:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, they're going to release the AUG in a caliber optimized for a 9" barrel; but you can only have it in a 16" barrel, where it gets you maybe 175-200fps more? That strikes me as an odd choice. At least in 5.56, you're talking a significant difference in effective range for the tradeoffs. The .300BLK AUG interests me as a (suppressed) hog gun, but I’ll stick to my 5.56 AUG as a HD rifle. |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 12:21:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All three are great platforms and battle proven. 
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Posted: 10/8/2023 12:26:04 PM EDT
[#22]
In the other 12000 bullpup threads everyone sems to love the Aug. I only have the Tavor and I have a few thousand rounds through it and never had a malfunction. Great gun! The only issue is it is not very accurate, but I don't consider that a problem for what I would consider its purpose.
I just can't get an Aug because I think it is the absolutely fugliest gun ever made.  |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 12:32:04 PM EDT
[#23]
I tried a friends Tavor awhile back. It felt like I was holding a 2x6 to my shoulder.
Clunky feeling to me, I’ll stick to the AUG. |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 1:19:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All those beautiful rifles and no FN FS2000? Have you ever tried one out? I used to really like mine..But have gotten rid of all my bull pups and stayed with AR15 just for ease of getting parts and the logistics of staying with just one system. I tried a friend's FS2000, the 'tactical tuna' moniker is apt. The mag sensitivity, complexity & 'tactical toilet seat cover' were all deal-killers for me. Front ejection was cool, though. |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 11:41:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I tried a friends Tavor awhile back. It felt like I was holding a 2x6 to my shoulder. Clunky feeling to me, I’ll stick to the AUG. Apt description. I think the sopmod stock profile was inspired by the AUG. Steyr nailed it a long time ago. |
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Posted: 10/8/2023 11:44:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All those beautiful rifles and no FN FS2000? Have you ever tried one out? I used to really like mine..But have gotten rid of all my bull pups and stayed with AR15 just for ease of getting parts and the logistics of staying with just one system. Looks like one is there, second from the left. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 12:03:46 AM EDT
[#27]
edit.
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Posted: 10/9/2023 12:08:48 AM EDT
[#28]
I really like the IWI X95.
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Posted: 10/9/2023 12:49:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I saw Steyr was releasing a .300BLK AUG. I wonder how long a 10" AUG would be? Slap a red dot on it and that'd be an interesting PDW. A 10” barrel isn’t possible with the AUG. The 9mm XS used a shortened “gas block” which out the barrel just about an inch past the receiver at about 12 or so inches. The shortest 5.56 barrel is 13.8 with a full size gas block. The .300 brownout uses a larger gas block and the only functional .300 barrels have just been in 16”. I’d like to see a shorter .300 barrel, maybe 14.5 to pin, but I’m not sure it’s functionally possible. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 4:09:28 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 10/9/2023 9:54:26 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like one is there, second from the left. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All those beautiful rifles and no FN FS2000? Have you ever tried one out? I used to really like mine..But have gotten rid of all my bull pups and stayed with AR15 just for ease of getting parts and the logistics of staying with just one system. Looks like one is there, second from the left. Yes, although I prefer the PS90 over the FS2K. The latter is bulky and the fragile looking internal parts like the switch scare me a bit. But it’s still fun to shoot. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 1:37:03 PM EDT
[#32]
No experience with the X95, but so far I prefer the VHS over the AUG.
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Posted: 10/9/2023 1:53:55 PM EDT
[#33]
For the unaware, the VHS-2 nearly won the French trials, narrowly losing to the HK416. It beat out many other rifles to get there. HK has such influence in Europe that I’m not surprised they won so it was a pretty good showing for the Croatian underdog.
It’s a very mature design. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 2:51:53 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Original Bushmaster M17s, modified by Kurt Wala: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1715/7808.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1715/7807.JPG You know that K&M makes an upgraded trigger for that, right?
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Posted: 10/9/2023 2:57:33 PM EDT
[#35]
The AUG is the most vetted and respected but as of late they’ve had a LOT of QC issues. Plus they’re more difficult to mount basic accessories like lights.
The X95 mimics the AR we all know and love controls-wise, plus it’s got a strong pedigree of killing certain undesirable characters that we can also appreciate, especially in light of recent events. But the accuracy is weak compared to the other two, and IWI does not sell spare parts. Objectively speaking, the VHS might be the best one, but the Springfield name hurts its street cred, and the stock is a bit long if you’re under 6ft. It looks cool as hell, and is the most accurate of the three. If you’d asked me to pick last year, I’d have gone Steyr. Last week? Springfield. Today? I’ll take the Islamic attitude adjuster from Israel please. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 2:59:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn’t watch video but for some reason the fs2k was left off. I own all 4, haven’t had a chance to shoot hellion yet but so far I will always lean towards the fs2k. I had one for years. Absolute fragile POS. Google my screen name for all the reasons why |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:00:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve read surprisingly good things about the RDB. Yup. Would take one over all the others. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:13:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those who don’t like the LOP or awkward selector on the VHS, a standard A1 or A2 pistol grip is a bigger improvement than you would think over the OEM grip. The greater sweep back helps a good bit with both. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/26154/IMG_6134_jpeg-2982634.JPG And the newest imports come with a better angled safety too |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:25:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The best is actually the K&M Arms M17s. Better overall dimensions and specs with a far superior trigger. AR180 style bolt carrier, many standard AR parts. In my opinion. I mean, it has the best trigger of any bullpup made, but I'm not sure I would consider it the best bullpup. For casual use, I'd probably give the nod to the RDB, simply because the bottom eject makes it more lefty friendly (and it's lighter then the K&M). The big disadvantage of the K&M is that they retained the extruded metal upper, which can get very hot under extensive shooting. I've run mine in quite a few classes, and gloves are an absolute must. The wylde chamber is also a questionable choice, since it makes the gun somewhat ammo picky and steel case adverse (but very accurate). A pretty strong case could be made for the X95: it's stone reliable, will shoot any ammo (I've run stuff through it that's completely locked up multiple other rifles ), has AR like controls, and has integrated rails for mounting accessories. The trigger sucks, and accuracy leaves something to be desired (mine, at least; maybe this has been fixed on the newer ones), but this is the gun I'd be tempted to grab over my K&M in a zombie apocalypse scenario.
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:26:19 PM EDT
[#40]
If there was a table with those three on it with mags for each and a pressing need for me to use one (say a two way range), I'd grab the AUG 10/10 times.
Sorry, I'm not a tavor or similar carbine fan. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:29:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If there was a table with those three on it with mags for each and a pressing need for me to use one (say a two way range), I'd grab the AUG 10/10 times. Sorry, I'm not a tavor or similar carbine fan. I think the biggest problem with the AUG is the God awful trigger (although I've heard the newer ones have less awful triggers), and the lack of rails. Not too keen on proprietary mags either (although that can be fixed with NATO stocks). |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:31:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the biggest problem with the AUG is the God awful trigger (although I've heard the newer ones have less awful triggers), and the lack of rails. Don't the new ones have rails? The select fire AUG trigger is decent compared to the semi-auto. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:33:33 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't the new ones have rails? The select fire AUG trigger is decent compared to the semi-auto. Only the airsoft ones.
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:38:13 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only the airsoft ones. Mine has a 3" section of picitinny rail on the right side of the receiver. In addition to the foot and half of rail on top. I only bought the AUG because it was a smoking deal from PSA. It's interesting, but that said it's inferior to the AR platform in a lot of ways. At least for me. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:44:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine has a 3" section of picitinny rail on the right side of the receiver. In addition to the foot and half of rail on top. I only bought the AUG because it was a smoking deal from PSA. It's interesting, but that said it's inferior to the AR platform in a lot of ways. At least for me. Yeah, given a choice between AUG and AR, I'd choose AR. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:46:35 PM EDT
[#46]
I have a x95 and like it....
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Posted: 10/9/2023 3:49:56 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine has a 3" section of picitinny rail on the right side of the receiver. In addition to the foot and half of rail on top. I only bought the AUG because it was a smoking deal from PSA. It's interesting, but that said it's inferior to the AR platform in a lot of ways. At least for me. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Only the airsoft ones. Mine has a 3" section of picitinny rail on the right side of the receiver. In addition to the foot and half of rail on top. I only bought the AUG because it was a smoking deal from PSA. It's interesting, but that said it's inferior to the AR platform in a lot of ways. At least for me. Manticore Arms makes a nice handguard/rail interface for the AUG. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 4:15:57 PM EDT
[#48]
I've had the Tavor, AUG and the FS2000 but can't comment on the Hellion.
The AUG is a nice gun but having to deal with buying different mags and having a fixed sight, not the guns fault but mine, I didn't care for it. It functioned fine but was just not for me. The Tavor I owned was a great gun and felt really good in my hands while shooting it. I liked the overall layout of the gun and only sold it as I had to pay some medical bills. I want to get another one but the prices now are kind of crazy. The FN FS2000 was a neat design but not very comfortable to shoot or hold. It felt big and is big, compared to others guns like it. It was different, I'll give it that but a little too radical for me. The PS90 is neat and is great fitting/feeling for it's size but the ammo for it, when it first came out, was very expensive. I wish I still had that one. It comes down to personal preference. You just have to decide what you want it to do for you and what your expectations of the gun is for. For me, I prefer the ar-15 platform, while not a bullpup, I am most familiar with it and if push came to shove, no matter what bullpup I had, I would grab the old reliable. |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 4:29:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Is the Tavor really reliable? Or is he full of it. Is the Hellion that good? Or is he full of it. The AUG is a mainstay.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxxYXhVcH-oAll 3 are very reliable, all 3 are accurate, all 3 have unique features X95 pros…. Best ergo of the 3, the most robust of of the 3 (full alum rec. under polymer), good aftermarket, built on Israeli military lines, CHF chrome lined bbl., 3 color options Cons…. No adjustable gas system, most complicated QD bbl, the dirtiest of the 3 (think AK), no FA Hellion pros…. 2nd best ergo, very accurate, adjustable gas system, most modular, built on Croatian military lines, has a great CHF nitride bbl.,FA, extremely clean running Cons…. The Polymer is soft vs the other 2 being gouged or scraped easy, long LOP, practically no aftermarket, any color you want as long as it’s black AUG. Pros…. best QD bbl of the 3, lightest of the 3 depending on set up, several gas adjustments, decent aftermarket ,4 color options, the Austrian made AUG is a work of military art. Cons…. US made AUG have more QC issues than the other 2, US made AUGs have nitride bbls rather than CL like the Austrian AUGs, US made AUGs are NOT built on military lines and are not the same spec as the Austrian made AUGs,.   |
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Posted: 10/9/2023 4:33:52 PM EDT
[#50]
X95 ftw.
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