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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:39:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The M1917 is still in limited service today and it’s a fine weapon. I had one converted to 300WM. It’s hardly “tacticool” like modern weapons, but it’s a solid rifle just the same. no windage adjustment is a set back |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:41:35 PM EDT
[#2]
AR15?
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:41:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The M2 .50 caliber machine gun is the oldest weapon still in U.S service and has the longest in service record to date. They’ve tried replacing it several times but it’s reliability has kept it the front runner despite having to set the head space when changing barrels. Just receivers are "the oldest" everything else has been replaced many times |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:45:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: to support troops not expected to engage the enemy as part of ordinary duties due to the inability to produce sufficient Garands in the quantity needed. OP also said "I’m talking entire companies armed with this particular weapon." which never happened in US infantry companies. Which brings us to the point of the meaning of viable - effective to x meters? rate of fire? still manufactured today? etc. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where in the OP does the OP state the weapon had to have historically been a general issue weapon for infantrymen ? The OP just stated "widely issued", which last I checked, the M1 carbine was indeed widely issued. to support troops not expected to engage the enemy as part of ordinary duties due to the inability to produce sufficient Garands in the quantity needed. OP also said "I’m talking entire companies armed with this particular weapon." which never happened in US infantry companies. Which brings us to the point of the meaning of viable - effective to x meters? rate of fire? still manufactured today? etc. I think that was the OP making the requirement that entire companies would need to be armed with this theoretical weapon in this thought exercise and not that the weapon in question was ever general infantry issue. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:45:39 PM EDT
[#5]
General issue? Sturmgewehr/M2 Carbine is about as old as I would dare.
If you’re allowed modern optics and a trigger job, many of the early single-shot smokeless guns could do the DMR job passably, a 7x57 Rolling Block with a good scope…. 
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:46:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By "viable" you mean that a unit equipped with this primary infantry weapon could hold its own against a similarly-sized unit equipped with a primary infantry weapon from today? Not counting LMG's/grenades/ Etc? Probably the M-1 Garand. Anything other than a semiauto is going to get wrecked. Even at that. A squad of dudes with aks is gonna eat a squad of dudes with 8 rounds garands. Semi auto box fed high capacity for the win |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:46:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Knife.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:47:23 PM EDT
[#8]
The oldest of all.
 CBeebies Songs | Hey Duggee | Stick Song |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:48:33 PM EDT
[#9]
In the middle-East= deodorant!
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:54:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mosin would still be good. If you're talking new productions of old designs, there are plenty of good lever guns out there in legit cartridges. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 5:56:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mosin would still be good. Mosin might have been considered “good” when it was adopted. It was barely passable in WW1, and completely outclassed by WW2. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:18:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Educate me. Show me where I'm wrong. I'm under the impression that an M1 carbine's effective range is 200 yards...isn't the AK47 twice that? I don't think there is much practical difference in effective range between the carbine and AK47s. Pretty much 300 yards. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:22:20 PM EDT
[#13]
short sword, like a gladius
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:34:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we are going that far back, might as well go for the 1891 Mosin-Nagant. It's a rifle AND a pike/ceiling fan destroyer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd go as far back as the 1898 Mauser. If we are going that far back, might as well go for the 1891 Mosin-Nagant. It's a rifle AND a pike/ceiling fan destroyer. This is hilarious! ceiling fan destroyer. hahahahaha |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:39:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryIs she his wife or brother. I cannot tell. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:44:07 PM EDT
[#16]
STG-44.
AK. BM-59 or -62. FAL. M16. Bolt or lever guns? Nope -- not to outfit a rifle company. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:48:12 PM EDT
[#17]
There is a video from Syria of dudes launching grenades and pipe bombs out of a trebuchet made from gym equipment.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:50:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think there is much practical difference in effective range between the carbine and AK47s. Pretty much 300 yards. Similar bullet weight with similar muzzle velocity from a similar barrel length. Oh and the AK weighs quite a bit more. I'll take a carbine in .30 carbine over an AK in 7.62x39 I'll take a carbine in 5.7 Johnson (same Melvin Johnson of the Johnson Automatic Rifle) over a carbine in .30 carbine. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 6:59:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: STG-44. AK. BM-59 or -62. FAL. M16. Bolt or lever guns? Nope -- not to outfit a rifle company. You could add the Ljungman to that list. The egyptians had a licensed copy of it called the Hakeem. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 7:53:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is she his wife or brother. I cannot tell. Quote HistoryQuoted: Is she his wife or brother. I cannot tell. I don’t know if she is his wife, but I am pretty sure she is NOT his brother. 
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Posted: 7/26/2021 7:55:17 PM EDT
[#21]
If you truly expect it to hold its own on a modern battlefield, then you need a modern assault rifle.
Even bone stock AR/AK's don't really meat the demand. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 9:20:40 PM EDT
[#22]
My submission is the Lewis gun. 1914 design, 22lbs (only a few pounds more than a SAW), 47 and 97 round mags, available in .30-06 so you can use AP, and a neat cooling system. Set them up defensively and you can out range most modern carbines. You will take losses, but I imagine even armored infantry opponents would take heavy losses as well.
However, if you are fighting a modern first world government, after the initial contact, you can expect to die from a hellfire launched by an 18 year old drone operator that still has pimples and peach fuzz. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 9:44:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My submission is the Lewis gun. 1914 design, 22lbs (only a few pounds more than a SAW), 47 and 97 round mags, available in .30-06 so you can use AP, and a neat cooling system. Set them up defensively and you can out range most modern carbines. You will take losses, but I imagine even armored infantry opponents would take heavy losses as well. I agree that the Lewis gun is excellent, and AS LONG AS you have tons of pre-loaded magazines, it is probably the best “old” light machinegun there is. The problem is when you run your magazines dry, and you need to reload them - then it can take a lot of time to refill the mags. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 9:47:49 PM EDT
[#24]
The answer is simple; Whores.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 9:59:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that was the OP making the requirement that entire companies would need to be armed with this theoretical weapon in this thought exercise and not that the weapon in question was ever general infantry issue. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where in the OP does the OP state the weapon had to have historically been a general issue weapon for infantrymen ? The OP just stated "widely issued", which last I checked, the M1 carbine was indeed widely issued. to support troops not expected to engage the enemy as part of ordinary duties due to the inability to produce sufficient Garands in the quantity needed. OP also said "I’m talking entire companies armed with this particular weapon." which never happened in US infantry companies. Which brings us to the point of the meaning of viable - effective to x meters? rate of fire? still manufactured today? etc. I think that was the OP making the requirement that entire companies would need to be armed with this theoretical weapon in this thought exercise and not that the weapon in question was ever general infantry issue. That is certainly the way I read it. "A total of over 6.1 million M1 carbines of various models were manufactured, making it the most produced small arm for the American military during World War II (compared with about 5.4 million M1 rifles and about 1.3 million Thompson submachine guns)." "The M1 carbine (formally the United States Carbine, Caliber .30, M1) is a lightweight[7] semi-automatic carbine that was a standard firearm for the U.S. military during World War II, the Korean War and the Vietnam War." They issued twice as many 1917s in WW1 as they did 1903s even though the 1903 was the "standard" U.S. service rifle. "Audie Murphy used an M1 Carbine. He was one of the most awarded US soldiers of World War Two when he single-handedly held off a whole division of advancing German troops." It may have originally been intended for cooks and drivers but it soon became popular with people who found that its rapid rate of fire and lighter weight made it preferable to the M1 Garand in certain areas. . I love both my M1 carbine and Garand but I still would prefer the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle for having the power of the Garand combined with the rate of fire of a light machine gun. And it could be fired while walking or from a bipod. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 10:05:11 PM EDT
[#26]
1897 Winchester Trench Gun
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Posted: 7/26/2021 10:17:50 PM EDT
[#27]
If things were up close, I’d be very comfortable with a Winchester pump shotgun. So I’m guessing an 1897 or Model 12.
If they were far out, a Garand. But for general issue, I think the FAL/M14 era battle rifles is as far back as I’d want to go. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 11:02:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If things were up close, I’d be very comfortable with a Winchester pump shotgun. So I’m guessing an 1897 or Model 12. If they were far out, a Garand. But for general issue, I think the FAL/M14 era battle rifles is as far back as I’d want to go. What did they really have as an advantage over a BAR that dates back to 1918? |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 11:11:22 PM EDT
[#29]
A well trained Soldier.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 11:12:20 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 7/26/2021 11:14:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Oldest weapon that is just as good as it was back then
M2 Browning |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 11:18:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Another vote for the Lewis Gun - assuming unlimited mags.
Otherwise, the MG34. 900 rpm rate of fire, belt fed light machine gun. It was truly ahead of its time and would still be effective today. |
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Posted: 7/26/2021 11:25:52 PM EDT
[#33]
The blade. Thousands of years of use. It's still carried by most soldiers to this day. Not that many really are skilled with it. But it's still in use.
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Posted: 7/26/2021 11:26:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M2, caliber 50, heavy barrel... |
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Posted: 7/27/2021 12:26:46 AM EDT
[#35]
1891 mosin, 1891 Argentine mauser, 1893 Spanish mauser.
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Posted: 7/27/2021 1:04:37 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that was the OP making the requirement that entire companies would need to be armed with this theoretical weapon in this thought exercise and not that the weapon in question was ever general infantry issue. The thought exercise wasn't well thought out. In the US service, the last time a company is equipped with all but a few soldiers using the same weapon was when the US declared war on Spain. Since militaries transitioned to fire and maneuver warfare in WWI, weapons are used to conduct a specific task as a primary function. Automatic weapons provide suppression and the base of fire. Rifles for accurate engagements. Personal defense weapons for those engaged primarily in command and control. If you choose one weapon to do all of those tasks, you end up with what happened when it was tried with the M14. It shot itself apart when used for sustained automatic fire, the leaders found it too heavy to carry and perform their jobs, and the infantrymen wanted their Garands back because the Garands held zero better. There is a relationship between weapons, ammunition, and tactics. Don't expect to change one part of the equation without an impact on the other parts. There is no such thing as the perfect weapon for all occasions. Since this is in reality a M-1 Carbine fanboy thread start, it is a versatile weapon, but in a modern context only viable as a PDW. |
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Posted: 7/27/2021 1:16:23 AM EDT
[#37]
M1 Garand, M1911, M2HB
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Posted: 7/27/2021 1:22:52 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NUCLEAR Trebuchet. Kinky! |
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Posted: 7/27/2021 1:35:30 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: However, if you are fighting a modern first world government, after the initial contact, you can expect to die from a hellfire launched by an 18 year old drone operator that still has pimples and peach fuzz. 
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Posted: 7/27/2021 3:57:06 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thought exercise wasn't well thought out. In the US service, the last time a company is equipped with all but a few soldiers using the same weapon was when the US declared war on Spain. Since militaries transitioned to fire and maneuver warfare in WWI, weapons are used to conduct a specific task as a primary function. Automatic weapons provide suppression and the base of fire. Rifles for accurate engagements. Personal defense weapons for those engaged primarily in command and control. If you choose one weapon to do all of those tasks, you end up with what happened when it was tried with the M14. It shot itself apart when used for sustained automatic fire, the leaders found it too heavy to carry and perform their jobs, and the infantrymen wanted their Garands back because the Garands held zero better. There is a relationship between weapons, ammunition, and tactics. Don't expect to change one part of the equation without an impact on the other parts. There is no such thing as the perfect weapon for all occasions. Since this is in reality a M-1 Carbine fanboy thread start, it is a versatile weapon, but in a modern context only viable as a PDW. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think that was the OP making the requirement that entire companies would need to be armed with this theoretical weapon in this thought exercise and not that the weapon in question was ever general infantry issue. The thought exercise wasn't well thought out. In the US service, the last time a company is equipped with all but a few soldiers using the same weapon was when the US declared war on Spain. Since militaries transitioned to fire and maneuver warfare in WWI, weapons are used to conduct a specific task as a primary function. Automatic weapons provide suppression and the base of fire. Rifles for accurate engagements. Personal defense weapons for those engaged primarily in command and control. If you choose one weapon to do all of those tasks, you end up with what happened when it was tried with the M14. It shot itself apart when used for sustained automatic fire, the leaders found it too heavy to carry and perform their jobs, and the infantrymen wanted their Garands back because the Garands held zero better. There is a relationship between weapons, ammunition, and tactics. Don't expect to change one part of the equation without an impact on the other parts. There is no such thing as the perfect weapon for all occasions. Since this is in reality a M-1 Carbine fanboy thread start, it is a versatile weapon, but in a modern context only viable as a PDW. K I never even suggested a weapon for this theoretical situation. I was just pointing out that nobody apparently read the OP and this was supposed to be a general issue weapon. You have decided to be ridiculously pedantic and inject a whole bunch of nuance into what appears to have been an attempt at a fun thought exercise. Why don't you @ the OP and let them know how disappointed you are. |
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Posted: 7/27/2021 4:03:46 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1891 mauser, and a 1911, Argentina had it right the first time. The 1891 is a fully modern bolt action, with well thought out has handling for ruptured case. And has a detachable mag or stripper clip loading. The 7.65 loading the military used is equivalent to modern 7.62 nato in all aspects. And they adopted the 1911 colt in 45 auto on short order also. 1891 Argentine mausers didn't have a detachable magazine it was a fixed 5rd box. |
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Posted: 7/27/2021 8:58:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryThe full auto smile. It’s great seeing it. |
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Posted: 7/27/2021 2:56:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree that the Lewis gun is excellent, and AS LONG AS you have tons of pre-loaded magazines, it is probably the best "old" light machinegun there is. The problem is when you run your magazines dry, and you need to reload them - then it can take a lot of time to refill the mags. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My submission is the Lewis gun. 1914 design, 22lbs (only a few pounds more than a SAW), 47 and 97 round mags, available in .30-06 so you can use AP, and a neat cooling system. Set them up defensively and you can out range most modern carbines. You will take losses, but I imagine even armored infantry opponents would take heavy losses as well. I agree that the Lewis gun is excellent, and AS LONG AS you have tons of pre-loaded magazines, it is probably the best "old" light machinegun there is. The problem is when you run your magazines dry, and you need to reload them - then it can take a lot of time to refill the mags. If there's an entire infantry unit equipped with Lewis guns, they could probably fire for days and reload the mags and the enemy would never poke their heads up. They might run into an issue with the MG34-equipped unit suggested above. The Ma Deuce infantry would die of exhaustion before getting close to the MLR. |
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Posted: 7/27/2021 3:06:39 PM EDT
[#44]
SMLE would be my pick.
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Posted: 7/27/2021 3:07:17 PM EDT
[#45]
A short sword.
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Posted: 7/27/2021 3:19:59 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we are going that far back, might as well go for the 1891 Mosin-Nagant. It's a rifle AND a pike/ceiling fan destroyer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd go as far back as the 1898 Mauser. If we are going that far back, might as well go for the 1891 Mosin-Nagant. It's a rifle AND a pike/ceiling fan destroyer. This sounds like something one learns from experience. |
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Posted: 7/27/2021 3:31:57 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maxim. I've shot one, full auto. Its great for quick bursts. Then wait 10 minutes to cool down; granted the one I shot was originally mounted on a bi-plane. No water jacket. I'd pick an M2 over a maxim for belt feds. Oldest Rifle.? Mosin or Mauser, tried and true |
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Posted: 7/27/2021 3:38:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sold on the Garand. I love them, think they dominated WW2, but going against a bunch of third-worlders with AKs? I don't think the Garand is going to work. It was great against guys using bolt-actions, but the battlefield today is different. Its bullets are too heavy to carry, and it doesn't hold enough ammo. The obvious choice is the M-14, which gives us more than twice the ammo/magazine as well as faster reloads...but I think the round is wrong. I'm not a doorkicker, and I'm more than willing to be corrected...but I'd think our frontline guys would rather have more ammo, vice less, on their person per pound...and I'm not sold on the M-14's reliability and ease of maintenance in the field, and I believe they were horrible when fired FA. M1 carbine? Our guys already have pistols. They need a rifle. I'm...guessing the M-16 is about as far back as I'd go, and still think our frontline guys had a good-enough weapon to win with. Optics and gear ready. The platform is...what...70+ years old? (I disregarded the M2 because it wouldn't be "general issue") Thoughts? @Sixtigers The M1 Garand is much faster to reload than the M14 the M14 is a very reliable weapon . |
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Posted: 7/27/2021 3:40:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Sixtigers The M1 Garand is much faster to reload than the M14 the M14 is a very reliable weapon . If god himself came down and picked up arms he would demand an M14. But there are older useful weapons. |
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Posted: 7/27/2021 3:41:02 PM EDT
[#50]
My Vickers?
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