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Posted: 10/13/2021 11:18:20 PM EDT
[#1]
A good place to Start
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Posted: 10/13/2021 11:18:56 PM EDT
[#2]
For everyone that recommended CCI stingers. Out of a rifle sure it's fearsome on a squirrel.
But <10" penetration and no expansion out of a 2" revolver. Not so fearsome.  https://www.luckygunner.com/22-lr-32-gr-cphp-cci-stinger-50-rounds#geltest |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 11:46:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Another vote for Velocitors first, Stingers a distant second.
If I were trusting my life to a rimfire, CCI would be top branding. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 11:48:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These two should be near the top: Aguila Interceptor 40gr @1470 fps and 195ft/lb Aguila Supermaximum 30gr @1700fps and 193ft/lb Both have slightly more energy than Stingers (4ft/lb and 2ft/lb respectively). Good luck finding either because I haven't been able to find them for 5+ years. I tried the Supermaximum in a 22" bbl rifle. It's FAST and LOUD. Accurate it isn't however. I'd go Stinger. At least something CCI at minimum. I've killed a bunch hogs with the Stinger. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 11:51:38 PM EDT
[#5]
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/
Velocitar had the most penetration  out of 2" barrels. It also had the most out of all the 4" barrels. By a significant amount. |
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Posted: 10/13/2021 11:57:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You wouldn't LOL if someone shot you with a .22 would you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: .22 for self defense..LOL You wouldn't LOL if someone shot you with a .22 would you? I wouldn't lol if someone stabbed me with a blunt pencil but I wouldn't use it for self defense if there existed other options. That being said I'm sure it's fine in this case, and depending on the shooter it may be a good choice. I just don't agree with that logic. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:19:16 AM EDT
[#7]
If I ever need a .22 pistol or rifle for defensive purposes, it will be loaded with CCI Velocitor. From a handgun, the bullet is unlikely to expand, as is the case for most .22 LR bullets fired from pistol length barrels. But it at least meets the FBI 12" minimum penetration standard. So it at least has the ass to punch deep and hit the vital organs from oblique angles. When fired from something the size of a 10/22, it performs much like a Speer Gold Dot bullet. It expands well and still penetrates as well as any expanding .22 LR round I've ever seen, nearing if not meeting the FBI 12" standard.
OTOH, I am not fond of the Stinger for this role. It may be fast. But it is too light. It just doesn't penetrate adequately, even when it doesn't expand. In the cases where it does expand robustly, the penetration depth becomes even worse. It is fine for varmints, but not so fine for bigger stuff. I'd take the Mini-Mag or Power Point HP's over the Stinger for personal defense, or even copper plated solids or the non-expanding Federal Punch. In order to do damage to the internal organs or CNS, the bullet first has to reach the internal organs/CNS. Most of the hyper velocity light weight hollow points kind of suck at that task. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:29:34 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/ Velocitar had the most penetration out of 2" barrels. It also had the most out of all the 4" barrels. By a significant amount. Too bad they didn't test the same loads from a standard 5.5" bbl gun as well. An extra 1.5" might make a noticable difference with some of those loads. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:35:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably any of them. Aguila 60 grain SSS subsonic really does tumble in flight too. Living room distance, and it tumbles. That would be as good of a choice as any. I was trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with your avatar's shoulder, then I finally realized it's the boltface making it look like a patch on her arm. With that said... SSS really is a miracle round, if you can find a gun that it's marginally stable in. I build a coule cuton guns that it "works" in, but I'm not at all certain tha tit works better. It's instability makes it sort of have thuper powers. I dropped a feral pit bull sith one shot, DRT. Maybe luck, but it was sack of taters DRT. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:50:18 AM EDT
[#10]
LOL
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:56:45 AM EDT
[#11]
I will never understand using a 22lr in place of a 38spc or 9mm...
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:57:09 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I tried the Supermaximum in a 22" bbl rifle. It's FAST and LOUD. Accurate it isn't however. I'd go Stinger. At least something CCI at minimum. I've killed a bunch hogs with the Stinger. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: These two should be near the top: Aguila Interceptor 40gr @1470 fps and 195ft/lb Aguila Supermaximum 30gr @1700fps and 193ft/lb Both have slightly more energy than Stingers (4ft/lb and 2ft/lb respectively). Good luck finding either because I haven't been able to find them for 5+ years. I tried the Supermaximum in a 22" bbl rifle. It's FAST and LOUD. Accurate it isn't however. I'd go Stinger. At least something CCI at minimum. I've killed a bunch hogs with the Stinger. I agree that Stingers are a good bit more accurate than Supermaxs but at room distance it wouldn't matter. At 50 yards or more, it definitely would. The Interceptors compare favorably with Stingers as far as accuracy is concerned in my limited testing. I'll also agree that CCI is well known for making quality rimfire ammo and any of their products will be reliable and reasonably accurate. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 1:11:15 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe even a copper washed steel jacket instead of the gilding metal of the original M24, so long as the jacket isn't so heavy as to go over the limit of 25% of total projectile mass, because of the 1980s "cop killer bullet" amendments to GCA. If you are referring to 18 U.S.C., § 921(a)(17)(B), it only applies to calibers larger than .22 . |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 1:16:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I will never understand using a 22lr in place of a 38spc or 9mm... Tremendous difference in recoil & follow-up shots for those who may have physical limitations |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 1:16:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .22 x 2 +.1 = .45 +A+C+P = .45ACP That equals .54 |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 1:19:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are referring to 18 U.S.C., § 921(a)(17)(B), it only applies to calibers larger than .22 .  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 1:20:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Ratshot aimed at and around the face. Biden’s shotgun revised.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 1:54:17 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tremendous difference in recoil & follow-up shots for those who may have physical limitations |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 5:19:45 AM EDT
[#19]
I'd go with Stingers - also found CCI, in general, seems to have fewer misfires for me, but that could also be that I bought it as a more premium product, rather than bulk pack ammo.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 5:24:20 AM EDT
[#20]
I'm really surprised we haven't seen a dedicated .22lr Defense load.
Something like a 40-45gr Hardcast polymer coated bullet, using CCI primers. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 5:44:01 AM EDT
[#21]
.22..... but add a 3 at the end
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Posted: 10/14/2021 5:57:03 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tremendous difference in recoil & follow-up shots for those who may have physical limitations My wife would use: 12 gauge SxS with 28” barrels Or a bolt savage 22 lr for home defense. I’ve talked her into a 10/22 or Henry lever 357 but I have to load and chamber those. Neither are ideal, clearly. But she doesn’t like pistols and doesn’t care to shoot or train. She ca. Shoot the shit out of a face with a 10/22 though and that’s certainly a better option than screaming in the corner |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 6:20:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Aim for the melon(head)
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Posted: 10/14/2021 6:27:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tremendous difference in recoil & follow-up shots for those who may have physical limitations Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I will never understand using a 22lr in place of a 38spc or 9mm... Tremendous difference in recoil & follow-up shots for those who may have physical limitations My wife would fall into this category. She was born with a mild case of cerebral palsy that affected her right side. She can't really grip anything with her right hand. So I have a FN 502 on backorder through Euro Optic and a Dead Air Mask in jail right now (120 days in).
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Posted: 10/14/2021 6:30:55 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I question if someone who cannot handle 9mm or 38spc in a revolver, can they properly defend themselves? I'm not saying they shouldn't try, but if 38spc is too much recoil, do they have the strength to survive a violent encounter? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tremendous difference in recoil & follow-up shots for those who may have physical limitations I suppose that is why they have the pistol in the first place? |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 7:06:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stinger or Velocitor |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 8:18:38 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My wife would use: 12 gauge SxS with 28” barrels Or a bolt savage 22 lr for home defense. I’ve talked her into a 10/22 or Henry lever 357 but I have to load and chamber those. Neither are ideal, clearly. But she doesn’t like pistols and doesn’t care to shoot or train. She ca. Shoot the shit out of a face with a 10/22 though and that’s certainly a better option than screaming in the corner The M&P 15-22 is also an excellent option  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 8:42:57 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .22 for self defense..LOL There have been a few of really old accounts posting some stupid topics of late. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 8:49:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There have been a few of really old accounts posting some stupid topics of late. Not really. There may be no other choice available to some people. The .22 someone has is a lot better than the 9mm they wish they had. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 8:56:24 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really. There may be no other choice available to some people. The .22 someone has is a lot better than the 9mm they wish they had. Yeah because a guy with a 20 year old account probably is barely able to buy a few rounds of 9mm. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 9:39:29 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryI came to post the above. When that article came out, I was pleasantly surprised to see Champion LRN did as well as it did out of a 4" barrel. It was and is my general all around go to for 22lr. It cycles in about everything I have come across. It is reliably consistent in ignition and accuracy. It is on the lower end of pricing for major brand, non-bulk pack 22lr. I have dispatched a fair share of small critters with it. Among those small critters were a feral cat and a groundhog that needed follow up shots, a coyote did not. Gel tests are not everything. With that said, I set my 80 year old mother up with a 4" .22 loaded with old school Rem Yellowjackets. It is something she can handle and is not intimidated by. Dad has what is essentially for them, a lifetime supply of Rem YJ. It works in what she has. We have had good luck with it over the years. Everything is a compromise with 22lr for HD. I wouldn't spend much time or money looking for the next whiz band boutique round. Get comfy with what you have or can easily get. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 9:45:23 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah because a guy with a 20 year old account probably is barely able to buy a few rounds of 9mm. Notice he said it was for someone else. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 9:51:27 AM EDT
[#33]
I would recommend CCI Stingers. If you cant find any let me know Ill send you a box. I am a neckbearder of Stingers.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 9:52:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah because a guy with a 20 year old account probably is barely able to buy a few rounds of 9mm. I probably have close to 100k in 9mm ammo and 20 pistols in 9mm. Just looking for something to start my wife off with to build her confidence. I knew GD would provide some good advice and draw some idiots as well. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 9:53:39 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn't there someone loading 22 LR bullets in a 12 gauge shotgun shell? I vote that.  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 9:53:48 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would recommend CCI Stingers. If you cant find any let me know Ill send you a box. I am a neckbearder of Stingers. I'll buy the beer. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 9:55:02 AM EDT
[#37]
556
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Posted: 10/14/2021 9:57:56 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 556 Gold dots or Razorcore? |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 10:05:34 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Notice he said it was for someone else. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah because a guy with a 20 year old account probably is barely able to buy a few rounds of 9mm. Notice he said it was for someone else. There are plenty of use cases where a smaller caliber makes sense. Sounds like the OP has one of those instances. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 10:08:07 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are referring to 18 U.S.C., § 921(a)(17)(B), it only applies to calibers larger than .22 . That did not prevent them from using it to ban imports of milsurp steel-core 5.45mm, which has a bore diameter of .213" and a bullet diameter of .220" to .221", smaller than .22 LR. Did the NRA even try to fight it in court, or was Wayne too busy buying suits? We left the "rule of law" place behind a very long time ago. They mean to impose their will, and laws and rules and the Constitution are strictly optional if they're inconvenient. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 10:32:29 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man, that’s so odd. I wonder what it is specifically with that ammo that causes the issue? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whether it’s valid or not, the fact that the older ones were Eley primed gave me a little more confidence in regards to ignition. I've not had any problems with either but Eley is known for their quality standards. The only issue I've had with any Aguila ammo is that my NAA mini-mag's cylinder jams after the third shot of Aguila .22 WMR. Happens every time. In 27+ years of owning the NAA, that is the only ammo that has had an issue in it. its the thickness of the rim. I had the same problem. Can't remember if it was 3rd shot or what. But they would jam the gun up. when I was looking years back, the troy landry choot em bullets that the other guy posted ,seemed to perform the best out of the NAA they was using. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 10:46:21 AM EDT
[#42]
When I carry my LCP 22lr. I use Eley Force 42gr LRN. Cleanest 22lr ammo I've come across. It's HV and has been extremely reliable. Also accurate. Gotten a few squirrels and chipmunk with my LCP.
My 2nd choice is CCI 40gr Blazer. Just a great round. I did buy a box of the Win Silvertips. Very few, if any, hp 22lr ammo expand from a small pistol. But these show promise with expansion & penetration. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 6:33:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Early this year I bought an LCP II in .22LR mainly because I wanted a pistol that would fit in a swimsuit or workout shorts pocket. I was going to get a .380, but there was no ammo anywhere to be found and I had a pile of .22. CCI Mini Mags have been perfect so far and it’s what I carry. I got one over a year ago. Amazing reliability for a small 22lr auto. 10rounds is a decent capacity too. Easy to rack easy trigger easy to hide |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 6:55:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I question if someone who cannot handle 9mm or 38spc in a revolver, can they properly defend themselves? I'm not saying they shouldn't try, but if 38spc is too much recoil, do they have the strength to survive a violent encounter? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Tremendous difference in recoil & follow-up shots for those who may have physical limitations Or maybe you could just use what you want and let people decide what they are capable of doing? Equating dealing with recoil with "the strength to survive a violent encounter" is silly. How much "strength" do you have? Do you have the strength to take on half-dozen bikers or gangbangers? I kind of thought the whole reason for carrying a gun was to deal with violent encounters. My 5"1", 110 pound girlfriend doesn't have the strength to deal with a large attacker (despite what the liberal MSM and "Girlpower!" advocates say), but she could distract him with a face full of .22s. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 7:01:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmm - it's a revolver so it will definitely load and eject. Most likely no problem igniting the rounds either. Fast Defensive reloading a 22LR though is something I would like to see Maybe a good Miculek challenge! Do they make speed clips for 22LR Airweight? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: CCI Stinger or any of the other hyper-velocity offerings. MAKE CERTAIN whatever she chooses will load, shoot and eject from her gun. Try to get her to run at least a hundred (preferably two hundred) rounds through it to vet the ammo/gun combination, learn to confidently hit a bad-guy size target at practical distances and learn to load and empty her gun efficiently. Please start with the FOUR ABSOLUTES of safe gun handling. Hmm - it's a revolver so it will definitely load and eject. Most likely no problem igniting the rounds either. Fast Defensive reloading a 22LR though is something I would like to see Maybe a good Miculek challenge! Do they make speed clips for 22LR Airweight? Maybe, maybe not. I had a round of Automatch slip through my extractor. I also had a fail to fire, second strike did it. I would presume quality CCI ammo wouldn't have those problems but you never know. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 7:15:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I ever need a .22 pistol or rifle for defensive purposes, it will be loaded with CCI Velocitor. From a handgun, the bullet is unlikely to expand, as is the case for most .22 LR bullets fired from pistol length barrels. But it at least meets the FBI 12" minimum penetration standard. So it at least has the ass to punch deep and hit the vital organs from oblique angles. When fired from something the size of a 10/22, it performs much like a Speer Gold Dot bullet. It expands well and still penetrates as well as any expanding .22 LR round I've ever seen, nearing if not meeting the FBI 12" standard. OTOH, I am not fond of the Stinger for this role. It may be fast. But it is too light. It just doesn't penetrate adequately, even when it doesn't expand. In the cases where it does expand robustly, the penetration depth becomes even worse. It is fine for varmints, but not so fine for bigger stuff. I'd take the Mini-Mag or Power Point HP's over the Stinger for personal defense, or even copper plated solids or the non-expanding Federal Punch. In order to do damage to the internal organs or CNS, the bullet first has to reach the internal organs/CNS. Most of the hyper velocity light weight hollow points kind of suck at that task. I don't think there's any point to expansion in such a small caliber. Penetration is far more important, second only to reliability. High velocity 40 grain solids or round nose to ensure adequate penetration is probably best. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 8:35:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I question if someone who cannot handle 9mm or 38spc in a revolver, can they properly defend themselves? I'm not saying they shouldn't try, but if 38spc is too much recoil, do they have the strength to survive a violent encounter? To be fair, they objectively do if they can get the muzzle pointing in the right direction and pull the trigger. Whatever happens after that, at least they fought back hard enough that the attacker is going to have a bad day. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 8:47:47 PM EDT
[#48]
I guess my way of putting the question would be this:
Someone who cannot handle the recoil from a 380, let alone a 9mm, probably hasn't practiced a lot. Someone who hasn't practiced a lot probably can't draw and fire a pistol reliably under stress. Lots of people who HAVE practiced a lot have trouble under stress, such as while being shot at, charged by a knife wielding psycho, or whatever. So my concern with someone seeking to get a pistol with reduced recoil is that they may be solving the wrong problem, and that with enough practice to have a fighting chance in a real world situation, 9mm or 380acp recoil may cease to be a problem.. That said, there are people with physical disabilities, bad arthritis, or whatnot, that makes it impossible for them to practice with anything else, so like always, there is no one rule for everyone. But do consider if more practice might be a better solution than a lighter caliber. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 8:53:51 PM EDT
[#49]
CCI for reliable ignition. 40Gn for penetration
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Posted: 10/15/2021 9:00:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/ Velocitar had the most penetration out of 2" barrels. It also had the most out of all the 4" barrels. By a significant amount. Interesting |
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