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Posted: 10/5/2014 7:57:17 PM EDT
[#1]
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Yeah, the A2 stock length with body armor is dildoes. I thing the Canucks had a good idea with the C7A2. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Try getting in and out of vehicles all day long with an M16A2. The A2 really fucked up the design, in my opinion. The A1 was light, had the perfect length stock, and good field sights. The A2 doesn't add any features that a rifleman needs, and adds a big weight penalty. Never mind trying to use that long stock with body armor unless you have gorilla arms. For mobile troops the 14" barrel and collapsing stock is far more practical. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yeah, the A2 stock length with body armor is dildoes. I thing the Canucks had a good idea with the C7A2. Years ago (2005?) some US Army guy started a thread asking for anyone that had used a 20" and a telestock, but not many people had relevant data. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:00:10 PM EDT
[#2]
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then walk. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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20 inch barrels are a huge pain in the ass when you are operating out of a cramped military vehicle. then walk. Yup, great idea! Fuck the protection from small arms, some blast protection, ability to respond quickly, and extended range offered by vehicles. Let's take the largely unnoticeable benefit offered by a longer barrel. . |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:02:46 PM EDT
[#3]
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From what pics Ive seen the M4 isn't really at an advantage considering all the shit those guys have hanging off of it. Barrel length of course is understandable. I carried a 60 so all of this was a nonissue  That shit makes the rifle far better than 5 inches of barrel ever would. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:04:39 PM EDT
[#4]
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Years ago (2005?) some US Army guy started a thread asking for anyone that had used a 20" and a telestock, but not many people had relevant data. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Try getting in and out of vehicles all day long with an M16A2. The A2 really fucked up the design, in my opinion. The A1 was light, had the perfect length stock, and good field sights. The A2 doesn't add any features that a rifleman needs, and adds a big weight penalty. Never mind trying to use that long stock with body armor unless you have gorilla arms. For mobile troops the 14" barrel and collapsing stock is far more practical. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yeah, the A2 stock length with body armor is dildoes. I thing the Canucks had a good idea with the C7A2. Years ago (2005?) some US Army guy started a thread asking for anyone that had used a 20" and a telestock, but not many people had relevant data. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile not really relevant but i have a 20 inch with a collapsible stock that works well with a chest rig... |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:06:41 PM EDT
[#5]
I love the mild report and recoil on a 20". Pure joy to shoot.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:13:35 PM EDT
[#6]
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Yea, all that crazy "tactacool" crap like IR lasers and lights to deal with darkness. Totally useless shit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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From what pics Ive seen the M4 isn't really at an advantage considering all the shit those guys have hanging off of it. Yea, all that crazy "tactacool" crap like IR lasers and lights to deal with darkness. Totally useless shit. Exactly. It's also ridiculous because they haven't been using those same accessories on the A4s. The extra 5" of barrel and 600FPS totally makes low-light accessories and optics completely pointless. 
20" gun threads are almost as stupid as KISS threads. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:15:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Because huge, long rifles suck. Most killing happens with crew serves in the military. Most civilians don't need a rifle that makes shots at a few hundred yards. Shorter guns are cooler. Smaller guns suit people's needs better, such as home defense or truck rifles, Suppressors are more popular that ever. Not to mention, modern ammo is a lot better, and often designed to work out of carbines, so the velocity loss isn't as big of a deal as it used to be.
There are lots of reasons why people choose shorter barrels. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:16:34 PM EDT
[#8]
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Is that a kitchen sink on the top of his pack? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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20 inch barrels are a huge pain in the ass when you are operating out of a cramped military vehicle. Get out of here with your facts and shit. btw Ounces are pounds, pounds are pain... http://www.captainsjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/khanjar_ii.jpg Is that a kitchen sink on the top of his pack? Mortar baseplate. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:20:06 PM EDT
[#9]
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then walk. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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20 inch barrels are a huge pain in the ass when you are operating out of a cramped military vehicle. then walk. Sometimes you need to cover 20 miles in less than 6-7 hours. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:28:47 PM EDT
[#10]
My first AR was a 20" based on OP's train of thought. After buying a 16" later on the 20" collected dust until it was sold. As a civilian I do not need a gun that is lethal to 600+ yards. The extra size and weight of the 20 sucks and doesn't give me anything. For troops I don't see what it really gives them either. Especially when you consider that they fire thousands of rounds for every 1 hit. I wish I could recall the exact number but it was pretty crazy. For the most part their SOP isn't to take aim at a bad guy and pull the trigger. They point the end that goes bang in the direction of the enemy or sound of the gun shot and they pull the trigger a bunch. And before someone corrects me I realize not all engagements are like that but the ones I have seem on liveleak all seem to be that way.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:29:10 PM EDT
[#11]
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Be a pain in the ass to all and be damn near unusable for smaller individuals with armor (for all intensive purposes 20" is always accompanied by a fixed stock in .mil) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What does a 20 inch do that a 14.5 inch can't? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Be a pain in the ass to all and be damn near unusable for smaller individuals with armor (for all intensive purposes 20" is always accompanied by a fixed stock in .mil) What are intensive purposes? |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:31:37 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:33:29 PM EDT
[#13]
The 20 inch variety M-16 was a 1-14 and then 1-12 twist designed for the 55 gn round. The M-4 and newer M-16 went to 1-7 twist for the M885. Since most engagements are within 100 meters, the shorter bbl is better.
Frankly, I prefer my AR-10 carbine. I do have two 5.56 long guns; a 16 inch version and the Tavor. I don't need any more of that caliber. Have one AK which is a nice tool and does what it was designed for. My precision bolt gun is only a 20 inch bbl .308 Savage 10TR. It will go as far as I want it to. No need for the longer bbl AR in the real world. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:36:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Better ammo. Civvies aren't limited to FMJ.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:38:14 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm not cool, so I bought 2.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:41:08 PM EDT
[#16]
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What are you getting at when you say less effective? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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20 inch barrels are a huge pain in the ass when you are operating out of a cramped military vehicle. Granted. Why is smaller and less effective the norm for our military? What are you getting at when you say less effective? What was he getting at when he said smaller? 
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:42:13 PM EDT
[#17]
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We should switch to a 24" barrel. Game changer. But imagine the velocity on a 72" barrel! You wouldn't even have to aim! Plus, it would destroy buildings so no need for compactness... |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:43:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Seems weird that the most potent variant of our favorite rifle is becoming smaller. You know despite the fact that the cartridge was designed around the 20 inch barrel. Velocity equals tissue destruction is and remains the the key for this newly developed "main battle rifle" contender. Yes, most of us are well educated as to the reason to all of its short comings, initially. Not going to mention that argument initially. Once the proper propellant was introduced the army signed on long term. I get it. I really do. New ordnance, realistic expectations and the real world and the time it takes to actually deliver. (Anyone remember the f-35? )
However....... So far as I know the troops that were in the sand box asked for a harder hitting round because of insufficient" immediate" incapacitation of the the enemy Well, .....why are we diminishing the capability of our beloved ARs to get smaller and smaller for the sake (assuming this is the case) of greater handling characteristics. So.... What gives? 
Sandbox? Asked for a harder hitting round? Where do you get this crap? lol Across the board, no one asked for anything. There is always a small group that will ask for different things. There's nothing wrong with the rifle and ammo we use now. That 20 inch is too long and gets in the way. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:43:56 PM EDT
[#19]
The best of both worlds.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:45:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Shorter barrels are better in confined spaces. 20" is better in an open field.
How many people have open fields in their homes? |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:48:39 PM EDT
[#21]
My next AR when I get some funds.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:52:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup, great idea! Fuck the protection from small arms, some blast protection, ability to respond quickly, and extended range offered by vehicles. Let's take the largely unnoticeable benefit offered by a longer barrel. . Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
20 inch barrels are a huge pain in the ass when you are operating out of a cramped military vehicle. then walk. Yup, great idea! Fuck the protection from small arms, some blast protection, ability to respond quickly, and extended range offered by vehicles. Let's take the largely unnoticeable benefit offered by a longer barrel. . Exactly , glad you agree. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:52:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shorter barrels are better in confined spaces. 20" is better in an open field. How many people have open fields in their homes? Pistols and submachine guns used to be the go to indoors firearms. Now everybody wants to use a rifle inside because body armor. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:53:34 PM EDT
[#24]
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Sometimes you need to cover 20 miles in less than 6-7 hours. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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20 inch barrels are a huge pain in the ass when you are operating out of a cramped military vehicle. then walk. Sometimes you need to cover 20 miles in less than 6-7 hours. Better walk faster then. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 8:54:05 PM EDT
[#25]
In a nutshell, I own ARs for knife fights. I have no need for maximum hitting power at 600 yards in a defensive rifle or carbine.
If your preparation includes scenarios where things have gotten so bad that you are shooting defensively and offensively (longer range), then by all means, own at least one SPR. Plus for a lot of people a shorter carbine is just a hell of a lot more fun to work and play with. M4 is a sexy weapon. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:06:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, the A2 stock length with body armor is dildoes. I thing the Canucks had a good idea with the C7A2. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Try getting in and out of vehicles all day long with an M16A2. The A2 really fucked up the design, in my opinion. The A1 was light, had the perfect length stock, and good field sights. The A2 doesn't add any features that a rifleman needs, and adds a big weight penalty. Never mind trying to use that long stock with body armor unless you have gorilla arms. For mobile troops the 14" barrel and collapsing stock is far more practical. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yeah, the A2 stock length with body armor is dildoes. I thing the Canucks had a good idea with the C7A2. This |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:07:44 PM EDT
[#27]
When I put together my 20" I used a pencil barrel, with 0.625" front sight base.
That thing is lighter than most of my shorter barrel ARs. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:13:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: His rifle/carbine is the least of his problems. Needs moar M3A4 hand cart. http://www.theliberator.be/HandCartImages/WartimeHandcarts/MarleneDietrichCart2.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 20 inch barrels are a huge pain in the ass when you are operating out of a cramped military vehicle. Get out of here with your facts and shit. btw Ounces are pounds, pounds are pain... http://www.captainsjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/khanjar_ii.jpg His rifle/carbine is the least of his problems. Needs moar M3A4 hand cart. http://www.theliberator.be/HandCartImages/WartimeHandcarts/MarleneDietrichCart2.jpg I hope he got both  And both of my small blocks are 20"  , its all I own . |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:15:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We should switch to a 24" barrel. Game changer. With an AR10, if you ain't man enough for that set up, you ain't main enough for muh militareh. .308 bist die uberboolet. And scrap all military vehicles, we packmules, now. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:17:23 PM EDT
[#30]
20" FTW
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:17:26 PM EDT
[#31]
After about 17 inches, the increase in muzzle velocity is tiny-- hardly a couple dozen fps per inch.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:19:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Is there any difference in accuracy with a pencil barrel vs the A2? I really like the SP1 but built an A2 upper since it was cheap.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:27:19 PM EDT
[#33]
All my AR's, except one, have 20" barrels and A1-style fixed stocks. The one exception is an FA XM-177 shorty clone.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:27:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope he got both
And both of my small blocks are 20" , its all I own .
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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20 inch barrels are a huge pain in the ass when you are operating out of a cramped military vehicle. Get out of here with your facts and shit. btw Ounces are pounds, pounds are pain... http://www.captainsjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/khanjar_ii.jpg His rifle/carbine is the least of his problems. Needs moar M3A4 hand cart. http://www.theliberator.be/HandCartImages/WartimeHandcarts/MarleneDietrichCart2.jpg I hope he got both
And both of my small blocks are 20" , its all I own .
I hope he got both too. In the end , ya run what ya brung.. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:31:48 PM EDT
[#35]
My favorite and softest shooting AR is a mid-length 18" med-contour with adjustable gas. But it's a tad heavy and slightly unwieldy when compared to the 8.5" AR I keep next to the bed, and the. 14.5" LW AR in the corner.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:32:58 PM EDT
[#36]
I guess I am not cool
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:40:49 PM EDT
[#37]
The funny thing is people complain that a 20' A2 is too heavy but will have a 10lb M4gery.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:42:30 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:43:16 PM EDT
[#39]
4 inches
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:44:00 PM EDT
[#40]
I don't have much use for the A2/heavy barrel 20", would be great for a SPR build but if its 20 and not a precision rifle I will choose a M16A1 every day of the week, light or lighter than the m4 and feels like a rifle when aiming.
The real advantage of a 20" over a carbine is the Iron sights, have abosulutly no problem hotting steal with irons out to 200 with 20" rifles, I have seen people with carbines have trouble hitting 12" plates at 100 resting. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:55:02 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These threads really bring out the Einsteins. This one by design, I believe. 
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:58:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20 inch barrels are a huge pain in the ass when you are operating out of a cramped military vehicle. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:05:57 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Seems weird that the most potent variant of our favorite rifle is becoming smaller. You know despite the fact that the cartridge was designed around the 20 inch barrel. Velocity equals tissue destruction is and remains the the key for this newly developed "main battle rifle" contender. Yes, most of us are well educated as to the reason to all of its short comings, initially. Not going to mention that argument initially. Once the proper propellant was introduced the army signed on long term. I get it. I really do. New ordnance, realistic expectations and the real world and the time it takes to actually deliver. (Anyone remember the f-35? )
However....... So far as I know the troops that were in the sand box asked for a harder hitting round because of insufficient" immediate" incapacitation of the the enemy Well, .....why are we diminishing the capability of our beloved ARs to get smaller and smaller for the sake (assuming this is the case) of greater handling characteristics. So.... What gives?
Nope. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:06:42 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The funny thing is people complain that a 20' A2 is too heavy but will have a 10lb M4gery. No. Just....no. 
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:08:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The real advantage of a 20" over a carbine is the Iron sights, have abosulutly no problem hotting steal with irons out to 200 with 20" rifles, I have seen people with carbines have trouble hitting 12" plates at 100 resting. 
Because you've seen "some people" struggling doesn't mean that 100 yards with a carbine is some sort of wizardry. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:09:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And those vehicles are being phased out. Anything without armor is going away. No more need for short barrels. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 20 inch barrels are a huge pain in the ass when you are operating out of a cramped military vehicle. Armored vehicles are roomier than unarmored vehicles |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:13:25 PM EDT
[#47]
I have been lusting over an AR-10 with a 20" barrel.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:14:27 PM EDT
[#48]
Canada knows whats up
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:15:41 PM EDT
[#49]
They should just issue everyone a 14.5" barrel and a 5.5" threaded extension.
Ta-daaa!
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:21:16 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its the "Cool Aid" factor, I'd guess. My goto is an A2 20in. That was so convincing, I'm gonna go get a 20" A2 as my go-to gun now. |
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