User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:04:57 PM EDT
[#1]
The English Channel.
The RN and RAF would have cut his landing forces to pieces on the way across and if they did get it the beaches the Royal Army and the people of England would have denied them a foothold. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:05:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Conquering the UK didn't solve any of Germany's economic issues, the focus was on exploiting France, the Low Countries, Poland and other conquests to prop up the German economy. A lack of critical war material. A lack of Industrialization to produce needed invasion equipment A lack of manpower to fully hold the island, even if taken. Lack of Air power to fully contest the channel post Battle of Britain An inadequate Navy to hold lines of supply against UK naval raiders if conquest was successful, as the Navy was sure to be hurt after a successful invasion The UKs power was in its empire, not all in the island itself. The Germans had great difficulties in the Norway campaign, it shattered any belief that the UK was feasible. Yet they won with what can only be described as a shoestring force. The British and French were led by morons |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:07:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I took a picture of the reason just on Saturday https://i.postimg.cc/c0b3hrgv/2-BD7-DB4-F-371-E-4-B38-A880-FA4429249-FC7.jpg A historic squadron Spitfire? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:07:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Wasn't there modeling or wargames developed on this premise. If I remember correctly, the Nazi's were establish landing and a beachhead but were unable to advance much into southern England.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:08:39 PM EDT
[#5]
He was afraid of spotted dick.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:09:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Even in Crete where the Germans were outnumbered they still managed to win.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:09:41 PM EDT
[#7]
The RAF attacked his assault barges. And then he was so tied up with russia that was it
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:11:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The RAF attacked his assault barges. And then he was so tied up with russia that was it Your timeline is jacked up. Try again |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:11:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A historic squadron Spitfire? 3, I know it’s a bad pic but phone was all I had. Don’t know of they were used in Ww2 Was just walking the dogs, apparently it was a flyby of the hospital to say thank you for Covid. Not seen a flying spitfire since I was a kid and they went right over my head so it was pretty cool. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:11:29 PM EDT
[#10]
bad dentistry. Arians as you know had prefect teeth and love to keep them maintained. Cant do that in the UK, so that's why they didn't invade. Just V1'ed the shit out of it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:11:55 PM EDT
[#11]
If only wikipedia held the answer!
 Operation Sea Lion, also written as Operation Sealion[2][3] (German: Unternehmen Seelwe), was Nazi Germany's code name for the plan for an invasion of the United Kingdom during the Battle of Britain in the Second World War. Following the Fall of France, Adolf Hitler, the German Fhrer and Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, hoped the British government would seek a peace agreement and he reluctantly considered invasion only as a last resort if all other options failed. However, once Hitler had determined that Germany would invade the Soviet Union in 1941, the desirability of forcing Britain out of the war before that date increased the attractiveness of an invasion, as potentially offering a quick and decisive victory in the West. As a precondition, Hitler specified the achievement of both air and naval superiority over the English Channel and the proposed landing sites, but the German forces did not achieve either at any point during the war, and both the German High Command and Hitler himself had serious doubts about the prospects for success. Nevertheless, both the German Army and Navy undertook a major programme of preparations for an invasion: training troops, developing specialised weapons and equipment, and modifying transport vessels. A large number of river barges and transport ships were gathered together on the Channel coast, but with Luftwaffe aircraft losses increasing in the Battle of Britain and no sign that the Royal Air Force had been defeated, Hitler postponed Sea Lion indefinitely on 17 September 1940 and it was never put into action. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:11:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stupidity, the Royal navy was never going into the channel, they would have gotten slaughtered by the Luftwaffe. Hitler never had any serious intent to invade Britain. I think the RN would have gone in and done what damage they could if an invasion fleet were to make the attempt. Hopefully the RAF could have kept the Luftwaffe occupied. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:12:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Goring and Raider were too busy fighting over the control of Naval air operations.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:12:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Operation Sealion by Peter Fleming (Ian's brother) remains one of the definitive books on the subject.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:13:46 PM EDT
[#15]
The RAF, Royal Navy, the English Channel, shitty, half hearted German preparations and crap German logistics.
Surviving Brit and German military officers wargamed operation sea lion in the 1970s. Germans lost everytime. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:13:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Water? Damnit 5 seconds |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:14:27 PM EDT
[#17]
interesting, part of Hitler's logic was that defeating the Soviet Union would knock Britain out of the war, leaving them no hope to carry on..
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:14:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: bad dentistry. Arians as you know had prefect teeth and love to keep them maintained. Cant do that in the UK, so that's why they didn't invade. Just V1'ed the shit out of it. How effective were the V1s? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:16:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If only wikipedia held the answer! ok, who wants to cross the English Channel in a river barge?.. raise your hand.. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:16:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn't there modeling or wargames developed on this premise. If I remember correctly, the Nazi's were establish landing and a beachhead but were unable to advance much into southern England. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:17:23 PM EDT
[#21]
The Wehrmacht also starting shifting assets to France. German He and Do aircraft didn’t get the job done taking off from Norway. They needed multiple Geschwader of JU 88 and BF 109s to have a successful air campaign over England.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:17:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How effective were the V1s? Very. Killed off all the GOOD cooks there. That's why their food is shit now. It left no one who had any talent to make tasty vittles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:18:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The RAF, Royal Navy, the English Channel, shitty, half hearted German preparations and crap German logistics. Surviving Brit and German military officers wargamed operation sea lion in the 1970s. Germans lost everytime. If they wargamed the invasion of France in 1940, who would have expected Germany to win? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:18:32 PM EDT
[#24]
The same thing that makes the United States just about untouchable to any foreign landing force. Alot of water.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:19:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How effective were the V1s? Seriously? Timeline |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:20:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you count the Scharnhorst & Gneisenau as BB's and the Deustchland, Graf Spee & Scheer as heavy cruisers, Germany floated 4 BB's, 5 heavy cruisers and 6 light cruisers (and one of those heavy cruisers, the Blucher was sunk in 4/40) Add to that the Kriegsmarine command staff sucked. The Royal Navy started WW2 with 7 aircraft carriers (with 5 more under construction), 15 battleships and battlecruisers (with 5 more under construction) and 66 cruisers (with 23 more under construction) The only hope the Germans had was to completely dominate the Channel through air power and be able to hold that for a significant period of time. How close they came before Goering switched to terror bombing is debatable, but it was the only chance they had. Germany only had 2 modern BBs if you count Scharnhorst & Gneisenau. Bismarck & Tirpitz were nowhere near ready for combat. They had 2 obsolete predreadnought BBs. They used one in the invasion of Poland.In a fleet opposed cross channel invasion they would be toast. The Germans only had 20 destroyers after the Norway campaign. They had no coherent amphibious lift capability or doctrine and no realistic plan for a sustainable capability. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:22:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The same thing that makes the United States just about untouchable to any foreign landing force. Alot of water. 25 miles is a little different than 6000 and 3000 miles. Comparing the Brits to us is something different. We had real carriers that fought a real navy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:22:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even in Crete where the Germans were outnumbered they still managed to win. They won, but the paratroops were decimated as a fighting force. (Much like the Kriegsmarine in Norway). They never mounted another major airborne operation after Crete. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:22:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: pretty sure thy lost nearly all of their destroyer force in Norway... they just couldn't hope to protect any invasion transport force... there's no doubt in my mind the Royal Navy would suicide if they had to to sink a German invasion force with dominant air cover.. I think you’re right. Also, the RN would have been able to run the channel at night and during bad weather regardless of the luftwaffe. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:23:15 PM EDT
[#30]
You figure they had centuries of practicing to defend their island so it makes it different than invading say France.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:24:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very. Killed off all the GOOD cooks there. That's why their food is shit now. It left no one who had any talent to make tasty vittles. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:24:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I recommend you read up on some of the naval battles. The German Navy was quite competent and for as small as it was held their own well enough. A cross channel amphibious assault was completely out of their league. Just compare Sea Lion to Overlord. As long as the RAF could contest aerial supremacy, the Royal Navy would crush the Kriegsmarine. Sea Lion would have been an unmitigated disaster. Had the Luftwaffe destroyed the RAF , he might have been able to force a settlement with the UK. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:27:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Logistics
The blitzkrieg machine required ALOT of supply. There was zero chance of Germany securing their supply lines without the air and sea. Even had they won the Battle of Britain, the RN would have played hell with any invasion and followup supply convoys. In reality, Hitler forcing the issue likely would lead to a Stalingrad-type situation with the follow-on surrender. Would have significantly changed the strategic outlook for the war in 1941. IF they somehow managed to secure supply lines and land a force? UK falls in a week, maybe 2 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:27:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Also, British air defense was much more formidable than the Germans expected. They tried to fly below radar and had some successful bombing operations at very low altitudes but the Brits were able to scramble Spirfires, Hawkers, and Blenheims fast enough before the Luftwaffe did significant damage.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:28:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They won, but the paratroops were decimated as a fighting force. (Much like the Kriegsmarine in Norway). They never mounted another major airborne operation after Crete. Define decimated. Compared to our losses in Normandy? That was Hitler's decision |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:29:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: interesting, part of Hitler's logic was that defeating the Soviet Union would knock Britain out of the war, leaving them no hope to carry on.. Hitler's logic was that knocking France out of the war would force the British to a "compromise peace". He was so confident in this that he ordered production changes before the Fall of France was guaranteed. Even once it was clear that the English wouldn't come to terms, the idea of a landing was always the last ditch effort to force a peace from the British. It was only after Hitler realized that he couldn't force a British Empire peace by invasion that he began the assumption he could force peace by defeating the Soviets. This aligned two of his goals into one thing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:29:45 PM EDT
[#37]
The English Channel.
If the UK were not an island... it would have been a different outcome. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:32:23 PM EDT
[#38]
No German Navy, you can only land so many troops with U-Boats. The Royal Navy. The RAF.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:34:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your timeline is jacked up. Try again Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The RAF attacked his assault barges. And then he was so tied up with russia that was it Your timeline is jacked up. Try again Barges June 41 Against Russia Wiki for Eastern Front |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:35:37 PM EDT
[#40]
Seaborne invasions are tough, and the Germans were not a nautical power. They did manage to embarrass the RN in WWI and WW2 but the surface fleet never posed a strategic threat.
Look up how many ships the Royal Navy had to throw at an invasion. Seriously, look it up. Without total air superiority, it would have been an absolute slaughter. Even Hitler knew it was impossible, and that’s saying something. Britain would have literally plowed through the troop barges with WWI era Battleships. I sorta wish the Nazis would have tried. It woulda been one of the most epic battles in all of history. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:35:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hitler's logic was that knocking France out of the war would force the British to a "compromise peace". He was so confident in this that he ordered production changes before the Fall of France was guaranteed. Even once it was clear that the English wouldn't come to terms, the idea of a landing was always the last ditch effort to force a peace from the British. It was only after Hitler realized that he couldn't force a British Empire peace by invasion that he began the assumption he could force peace by defeating the Soviets. This aligned two of his goals into one thing. This is really the bottom line. The Germans were winning every battle outnumbered and outgunned. The Germans were so far advanced tactically that they would have beat Britain. It was a political decision |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:35:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Ultimately, Sea Lion was based around the idea of Air superiority, the Airforce, Navy and Army all agreed on that. When the Battle of Britain failed to produce a German victory, Sea Lion was off the table. By 17th September it was suspended 'until further notice' and by 12 October it was all but abandoned. The Germans were already transferring troops and supplies as early as mid September to other theaters.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:36:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No German Navy, you can only land so many troops with U-Boats. The Royal Navy. The RAF. All of the top officers in the Kriegsmarine transferred to the Luftwaffe in the 30’s. Goring was all about the Luftwaffe first. The Navy was an afterthought. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:37:54 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is really the bottom line. The Germans were winning every battle outnumbered and outgunned. The Germans were so far advanced tactically that they would have beat Britain. It was a political decision Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hitler's logic was that knocking France out of the war would force the British to a "compromise peace". He was so confident in this that he ordered production changes before the Fall of France was guaranteed. Even once it was clear that the English wouldn't come to terms, the idea of a landing was always the last ditch effort to force a peace from the British. It was only after Hitler realized that he couldn't force a British Empire peace by invasion that he began the assumption he could force peace by defeating the Soviets. This aligned two of his goals into one thing. This is really the bottom line. The Germans were winning every battle outnumbered and outgunned. The Germans were so far advanced tactically that they would have beat Britain. It was a political decision Not really. You've taken what I wrote completely wrong. I suggest reading "Germany and the Second World War, volume II" pages 366 to 419 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:38:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was afraid of spotted dick. This is the reason. This and lack of sea lift/amphibious capability. And the RN. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:38:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Probably the food and ugly women. Not worth it to rape and pillage.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:38:36 PM EDT
[#47]
We shall go on till the end
We shall fight in France , We shall fight on the sea and oceans We shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air We shall defend our island, whatever what the cost may be We shall fight on the beaches We shall fight on the landing grounds We shall fight in the fields and in the streets We shall fight in the hills We shall never surrender |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:39:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seaborne invasions are tough, and the Germans were not a nautical power. They did manage to embarrass the RN in WWI and WW2 but the surface fleet never posed a strategic threat. Look up how many ships the Royal Navy had to throw at an invasion. Without total air superiority, it would have been an absolute slaughter. Even Hitler knew it was impossible, and that’s saying something. Britain would have literally plowed through the troop barges with WWI era Battleships. I sorta wish the Nazis would have tried. It woulda been one of the most epic battles in all of history. And the Luftwaffe would have just sat sat on their ass. It takes time to sortie a navy |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:40:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really. You've taken what I wrote completely wrong. I suggest reading "Germany and the Second World War, volume II" pages 366 to 419 Written by a Brit |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/12/2020 8:41:47 PM EDT
[#50]
These guys stopped them... or the thought of having to do battle with them.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
