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Posted: 4/18/2023 10:56:35 AM EDT
[#1]
https://www.tonyskansascity.com/2023/04/feeble-kansas-city-teen-shooting.html An update this morning from the Tony's KC blog. It's a local news blog updated a few times daily, been running for about 20 years in Kansas City (much more popular and accurate than the KC Star) |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 11:02:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is common to ring the door bell and then open the screen door aka storm door to knock on the main door. I never did it, and to the best of my recollection, no one knocking at our door ever did it. Perhaps it's a regional thing? |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 11:13:05 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldn't be the first time a prosecutor has lied... seems common in STL. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: From that facts as they have been presented so far bad shoot. If that's the fact's. Bad shoot. Don't blast some dude on your door step. Crump makes me question Wouldn't be the first time a prosecutor has lied... seems common in STL. I don't know that it's so much about lying, but more about an agenda and sitting on her ass. And obstructing the legal system by protecting scum. I'm astounded by her lack of understanding of her responsibility for supervising her office. The argument that everything is the fault of subordinates falls flat. Useless trash making the city of St. Louis trashier, and that's remarkable considering. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 11:16:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet the old guy said " I ain't going out like that lady in Chicago" Good shoot. Pretty sure that youth had plans to rob and murder him. He did not ring the wrong door. He wanted to do a home invasion or burglary. LOL. You're trying too hard. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 11:17:25 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From that facts as they have been presented so far bad shoot. It's not that hard to open the door and tell someone they are at the wrong house. It would even be civil to give them directions if you knew how to get there. From the news I read this am it was through the glass door and no words were exchanged. Old man says kid tried to open the door and kid denies. If that's all true it sounds like old man is getting convicted.. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 11:20:00 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up in a house with a screen door, in a neighborhood of houses with screen doors. Opening it to knock wasn't common at all. I never did it, and to the best of my recollection, no one knocking at our door ever did it. Perhaps it's a regional thing? Common here in NC |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 11:20:03 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An update this morning from the Tony's KC blog. It's a local news blog updated a few times daily, been running for about 20 years in Kansas City (much more popular and accurate than the KC Star) Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.tonyskansascity.com/2023/04/feeble-kansas-city-teen-shooting.html An update this morning from the Tony's KC blog. It's a local news blog updated a few times daily, been running for about 20 years in Kansas City (much more popular and accurate than the KC Star) Wait... that blog's narrative is literally: "how dare the ideologically driven media prejudge the story and lie saying some old white guy tried to kill an innocent black kid? What ACTUALLY happened was a physically and mentally deficient old guy on too many meds but still possessing a gun shot a kid out of fear because his house had been vandalized so when he saw a black kid naturally he... oh... wait... that's still racist and a bad look, isn't it. Fuck." |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 11:20:40 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So he allegedly was pulling on the handle... not guilty, if he can prove it. I'm always leery about opening someone's storm door for this exact reason. The kid thought he was at the right house, but the owner didn't have that context. "When he started pulling on the handle of my glass screen door I was so in fear for my life that I opened my entry door to shoot him." Seems reasonable. 
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Posted: 4/18/2023 11:20:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So he allegedly was pulling on the handle... not guilty, if he can prove it. I'm always leery about opening someone's storm door for this exact reason. The kid thought he was at the right house, but the owner didn't have that context. He could have even been told by the family member he was there for "go ahead and come in, front doors unlocked" Shit situation all round from the sound of things. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 11:40:22 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up in a house with a screen door, in a neighborhood of houses with screen doors. Opening it to knock wasn't common at all. I never did it, and to the best of my recollection, no one knocking at our door ever did it. Perhaps it's a regional thing? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is common to ring the door bell and then open the screen door aka storm door to knock on the main door. I never did it, and to the best of my recollection, no one knocking at our door ever did it. Perhaps it's a regional thing? It was/is relatively common in KY. From both friends/family and strangers. Even had a neighbor who would try to open the main door and announce himself if it was open. I've talked through the main door to unknown solicitors many times because they open the storm/screen door and hold it open with their body. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 11:50:42 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up in a house with a screen door, in a neighborhood of houses with screen doors. Opening it to knock wasn't common at all. I never did it, and to the best of my recollection, no one knocking at our door ever did it. Perhaps it's a regional thing? Happens here in MI too, especially the person knocking thinks they're expected. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 12:00:48 PM EDT
[#12]
I lived in KCMO for 35 years. I can understand someone old and frail being afraid of someone younger and bigger than them, no matter what color. I'm white, 6', 174 pounds and I got on the elevator at my old apartment complex to find a tiny little old lady on there (white) who saw me and moved back in to the corner, looking scared as she did. I smiled and said hello and stayed back away from her, but I could have been a bad man and easily grabbed her purse and taken it without any trouble at all.
I don't condone what the old man did, stupidly shooting through the door, but I can understand his fear, especially if I open my door late in the evening to find someone standing there that I don't know. Hell, he may have been attacked or robbed in the past, so he's scared shitless and fired out of fear. I started carrying concealed the last years I lived in KC because of crime spiking up in the area I lived in down in south KCMO near State Line. Our complex was broken in to repeatedly, shots were fired outside late one night while I was in bed, prompting me to grab my gun, and I started checking the security access doors and the paid parking garage every night while armed, finding shit jammed in to the door jams to keep them from latching, or the garage door shut off and left open. We had robberies in broad daylight at the grocery store parking lot just down the block from me, and at the gas station while people were pumping gas around them. I did the "head on a swivel" thing you guys always mention, and had a gun on me and always turned and watched what was going on around me at other pumps. More than once I had people come up to try to bum money, and every time they'd walk off grumbling. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 12:22:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: George Floyd was a role model as well.. Fuck their narrative Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The kid is a gifted, chemistry student who’s in the band, and plays the clarinet,I just said a prayer for a full recover in at. George Floyd was a role model as well.. Fuck their narrative Agree how many times has this story been played about black youth. I guess all those youth that destroyed downtown Chicago could fit into this same category as this youth. We are hearing many different stories about this. But when they say nothing or do nothing when the roles are reversed. When it's blacks hurting whites and nothing is done about it. I just don't GAF anymore. I wonder when FJB will come out of his hole and start his anti gun, anti self-defense BS and the Nazis DOJ starts investigating as a hate crime. I really just do not care anymore. Old guy saw a threat in his mind based on all the attacks against white people he's saw on TV and reacted our of fear. That is one thing I believe is clear. The rest will follow. As far as castle doctrine outside of home. That just depends on where you live. You have stand your ground in some states and if your on your property outside is very relative. Castle doctrine extends to your car when inside of it in free states. I know Florida's law, but MO law I do not know. I personally know a man that shot an intruder trying to break in to his home through his glass front door and it was ruled justifiable. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 12:30:08 PM EDT
[#14]
didnt FJB say to use your shotgun and blast through the door?
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Posted: 4/18/2023 12:40:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Common here in NC Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I grew up in a house with a screen door, in a neighborhood of houses with screen doors. Opening it to knock wasn't common at all. I never did it, and to the best of my recollection, no one knocking at our door ever did it. Perhaps it's a regional thing? Common here in NC I'm hesitant to trust the media on anything, but from what we think we know so far, this sounds like a bad shoot to me. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 12:56:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up in a house with a screen door, in a neighborhood of houses with screen doors. Opening it to knock wasn't common at all. I never did it, and to the best of my recollection, no one knocking at our door ever did it. Perhaps it's a regional thing? Grew up in the city- people never opened a storm door. Only in the past couple years have I seen that and it's only with delivery people trying to leave a package between doors. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 1:18:36 PM EDT
[#17]
What are the odds that the old guy spent much of his time watching (insert MSM channel), which increased his fear of crime. It seems to be a trend among the older population, detaching them from reality.
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Posted: 4/18/2023 1:43:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He could have even been told by the family member he was there for "go ahead and come in, front doors unlocked" Shit situation all round from the sound of things. I had a similar incident occur to me. At least that's what the two drunk/high guys, who were trying to open my door at 2AM, told me. They sounded sincere and scared shitless, but they likely heard me chamber a round and I was angrily questioning (them through the door). If they had criminal intentions I doubt they would have stuck around after initial contact. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 1:57:41 PM EDT
[#19]
So the more I hear about this the more it's sounding like a complete misunderstanding.
But confirmed bad shoot. Terrible situation for all involved. This is one of the reasons why shooting through the door could be justified but is generally a bad idea. I would only shoot through the door if the person on the other side is actively forcing their way in. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 2:03:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trying to open the glass door(not forcefully, mind you) doesn't make it an attempted burglary. He rang the door bell, then, like any normal person, probably tried the glass door to knock on the main door. This is a sad situation all around. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If the jury believes that the shooter was afraid for his life - which will hinge on believing the shooter's statement that the stranger was tugging on the outer door handle - there is a chance he'll be found innocent. If that happens, multiple cities are going to see some nasty rioting. Trying to open the glass door(not forcefully, mind you) doesn't make it an attempted burglary. He rang the door bell, then, like any normal person, probably tried the glass door to knock on the main door. This is a sad situation all around. I wouldn't say that's normal here in KS. Ring the doorbell if there is one. Unless the house belongs to a friend or family member I wouldn't open the screen door to knock on the door. I'd knock on it before I start screwing w/ a stranger's door in the middle of the night. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 2:05:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't say that's normal here in KS. Ring the doorbell if there is one. Unless the house belongs to a friend or family member I wouldn't open the screen door to knock on the door. He thought he was at the house where his siblings were so to him I'd say it was the same as a friend's home. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 2:07:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Anybody knocks at my door after 10pm is at risk of getting shot for waking me up!
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Posted: 4/18/2023 2:14:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He thought he was at the house where his siblings were so to him I'd say it was the same as a friend's home. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wouldn't say that's normal here in KS. Ring the doorbell if there is one. Unless the house belongs to a friend or family member I wouldn't open the screen door to knock on the door. He thought he was at the house where his siblings were so to him I'd say it was the same as a friend's home. House siblings is at is not the same thing. Known house where I'm known as a family member &/or a friend is my point. If they don't know me on sight I'm not fucking w/ their door in the middle of the night. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 2:14:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He thought he was at the house where his siblings were so to him I'd say it was the same as a friend's home. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wouldn't say that's normal here in KS. Ring the doorbell if there is one. Unless the house belongs to a friend or family member I wouldn't open the screen door to knock on the door. He thought he was at the house where his siblings were so to him I'd say it was the same as a friend's home. I blame the squirrely Kansas City street naming system. I never did care for that! |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 2:15:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't say that's normal here in KS. Ring the doorbell if there is one. Unless the house belongs to a friend or family member I wouldn't open the screen door to knock on the door. I'd knock on it before I start screwing w/ a stranger's door in the middle of the night. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If the jury believes that the shooter was afraid for his life - which will hinge on believing the shooter's statement that the stranger was tugging on the outer door handle - there is a chance he'll be found innocent. If that happens, multiple cities are going to see some nasty rioting. Trying to open the glass door(not forcefully, mind you) doesn't make it an attempted burglary. He rang the door bell, then, like any normal person, probably tried the glass door to knock on the main door. This is a sad situation all around. I wouldn't say that's normal here in KS. Ring the doorbell if there is one. Unless the house belongs to a friend or family member I wouldn't open the screen door to knock on the door. I'd knock on it before I start screwing w/ a stranger's door in the middle of the night. Screen doors are usually so flimsy that if you knock on them people inside won’t hear it. Some storm doors may be more substantial. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 2:19:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Grew up in the city- people never opened a storm door. Only in the past couple years have I seen that and it's only with delivery people trying to leave a package between doors. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I grew up in a house with a screen door, in a neighborhood of houses with screen doors. Opening it to knock wasn't common at all. I never did it, and to the best of my recollection, no one knocking at our door ever did it. Perhaps it's a regional thing? Grew up in the city- people never opened a storm door. Only in the past couple years have I seen that and it's only with delivery people trying to leave a package between doors. And if you opened the screen door to knock on the main door, you hurried to close the screen door before the resident opened the main door. Kharn |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 2:19:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they don't know me on sight I'm not fucking w/ their door in the middle of the night. I doubt few would qualify as opening a screen door to knock on the exterior door after a door bell ring didnt bring anyone to the door as "fucking with a door". But again, knocking on the wooden door is common here so that colors my opinion |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 3:21:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In my mind I’m putting together the most likely scenario. The kid goes to the wrong house to pick up his siblings. The home owner tells him the siblings aren’t there. The kid demands to get his siblings which the home owner can’t provide. The kid being dumb tries to enter the house to look for his siblings. Then home owner shoots him. This sounds like a much more likely scenario than the one-sided argument the media is putting forth. If the kid tried to make entry under any pretenses, that would be a problem. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 3:22:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This sounds like a much more likely scenario than the one-sided argument the media is putting forth. Why would they be at the home of an old white guy? |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 3:26:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Swiss article https://www.lematin.ch/story/un-adolescent-noir-se-trompe-dappartement-et-se-fait-tirer-dessus-241165349016 Daily mail article https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11977801/amp/Scholar-shot-head-white-homeowner-rang-wrong-doorbell-picking-siblings.html According the Daily mail the shooter has not been identified yet they claim he his white I look forward to the day when the race of the shooter and the victim is included in all news articles and reports. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 3:55:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Screen doors are usually so flimsy that if you knock on them people inside won't hear it. Some storm doors may be more substantial. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If the jury believes that the shooter was afraid for his life - which will hinge on believing the shooter's statement that the stranger was tugging on the outer door handle - there is a chance he'll be found innocent. If that happens, multiple cities are going to see some nasty rioting. Trying to open the glass door(not forcefully, mind you) doesn't make it an attempted burglary. He rang the door bell, then, like any normal person, probably tried the glass door to knock on the main door. This is a sad situation all around. I wouldn't say that's normal here in KS. Ring the doorbell if there is one. Unless the house belongs to a friend or family member I wouldn't open the screen door to knock on the door. I'd knock on it before I start screwing w/ a stranger's door in the middle of the night. Screen doors are usually so flimsy that if you knock on them people inside won't hear it. Some storm doors may be more substantial. Then my next step would be a phone call to the person I'm looking for. That's what cell phones are for. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 4:05:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The kids go fund me is already at $2,747,630. He is already out of the hospital. Good for the kid. He deserves it. I don’t feel much sympathy for the home owner. Not only has he made gun owners and America look bad, but his actions are what fuel support for gun control. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 4:44:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are the odds that the old guy spent much of his time watching (insert MSM channel), which increased his fear of crime. It seems to be a trend among the older population, detaching them from reality. Well....from casual observation, it seems that he was quite attached to reality. You see what is going on in the cities and suburbs lately? Young black youth, possibly opening his door after hours.... ...I dunno. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 4:47:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would they be at the home of an old white guy? Wait....what? Who? |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 4:53:44 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait....what? Who? Quote HistoryQuoted: Wait....what? Who? It was in response to In my mind I’m putting together the most likely scenario. The kid goes to the wrong house to pick up his siblings. The home owner tells him the siblings aren’t there. The kid demands to get his siblings which the home owner can’t provide. The kid being dumb tries to enter the house to look for his siblings. Then home owner shoots him. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 4:54:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good for the kid. He deserves it. I don’t feel much sympathy for the home owner. Not only has he made gun owners and America look bad, but his actions are what fuel support for gun control. I was going to write the same thing. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 4:57:37 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good for the kid. He deserves it. I don't feel much sympathy for the home owner. Not only has he made gun owners and America look bad, but his actions are what fuel support for gun control. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 6:10:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "When he started pulling on the handle of my glass screen door I was so in fear for my life that I opened my entry door to shoot him." Seems reasonable. The kid may be a good kid, an A student. and an Eagle Scout. This may all be a terrible misunderstanding. However, if I'm the 80+ year-old man in the house...  1 Teen arrested, 1 At Large In Beating Death of WWII Vet Elderly GA Woman Brutally Beaten, Burned During Home Invasion Dies |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 6:31:41 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's funny about that? If the kid opened (or was trying to open) the screen door, it's perfectly reasonable for the homeowner to interpret that as "he's trying to get in." The kid may be a good kid, an A student. and an Eagle Scout. This may all be a terrible misunderstanding. However, if I'm the 80+ year-old man in the house... https://i.imgur.com/kQVbDXF.jpg 1 Teen arrested, 1 At Large In Beating Death of WWII Vet Elderly GA Woman Brutally Beaten, Burned During Home Invasion Dies Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "When he started pulling on the handle of my glass screen door I was so in fear for my life that I opened my entry door to shoot him." Seems reasonable. The kid may be a good kid, an A student. and an Eagle Scout. This may all be a terrible misunderstanding. However, if I'm the 80+ year-old man in the house... https://i.imgur.com/kQVbDXF.jpg 1 Teen arrested, 1 At Large In Beating Death of WWII Vet Elderly GA Woman Brutally Beaten, Burned During Home Invasion Dies Your solution to stop someone that you think is trying to get into your house to kill you is to open the door for them? 
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Posted: 4/18/2023 6:40:35 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: didnt FJB say to use your shotgun and blast through the door? |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 6:48:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your solution to stop someone that you think is trying to get into your house to kill you is to open the door for them? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: "When he started pulling on the handle of my glass screen door I was so in fear for my life that I opened my entry door to shoot him." Seems reasonable. The kid may be a good kid, an A student. and an Eagle Scout. This may all be a terrible misunderstanding. However, if I'm the 80+ year-old man in the house... https://i.imgur.com/kQVbDXF.jpg 1 Teen arrested, 1 At Large In Beating Death of WWII Vet Elderly GA Woman Brutally Beaten, Burned During Home Invasion Dies Your solution to stop someone that you think is trying to get into your house to kill you is to open the door for them? |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 6:56:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Don’t have details. But is the boy a hero now?
 Attached File |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 6:59:18 PM EDT
[#43]
He's desperate to be success approximate.
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Posted: 4/18/2023 7:07:24 PM EDT
[#44]
There were 300+ shootings in the USA yesterday.
The TV says I should be very interested in this one, tell me more? I don't want to defy the TV. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 7:11:18 PM EDT
[#45]
I wonder how many parents/victims in Chicago or San Francisco he has called to show support and solidarity.
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Posted: 4/18/2023 7:37:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don’t have details. But is the boy a hero now?https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/562719/IMG_5680_jpeg-2787765.JPG And here it is, the senile old bastard running his shit hole. He does not even know what he's doing. He's reading what he's told to say by who ever really is running America. Next DOJ investigating a hate crime. I think there's more to this story. It's not like it'd be the first time the media has concealed things that really happened to push the socialists adgenda |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 7:45:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Opening a storm door to knock on the main door of the house after no response to a pressed doorbell is an everyday, normal, and legal occurrence. It depends on how it’s described and whether the jury believes it. Trying once to open a screen door to knock? Normal. Yanking aggressively on a locked outer door in such a manner as to seem as though one is trying to forcefully enter the home at night? Different. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 7:46:36 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up in a house with a screen door, in a neighborhood of houses with screen doors. Opening it to knock wasn't common at all. I never did it, and to the best of my recollection, no one knocking at our door ever did it. Perhaps it's a regional thing? Knocking on the interior door is common. It's normally louder. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 7:50:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don’t have details. But is the boy a hero now?https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/562719/IMG_5680_jpeg-2787765.JPG Gun violence? The old idiot was just following FJBs home defense advice to shoot through the door. |
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Posted: 4/18/2023 7:54:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up in a house with a screen door, in a neighborhood of houses with screen doors. Opening it to knock wasn't common at all. I never did it, and to the best of my recollection, no one knocking at our door ever did it. Perhaps it's a regional thing? Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up in a house with a screen door, in a neighborhood of houses with screen doors. Opening it to knock wasn't common at all. I never did it, and to the best of my recollection, no one knocking at our door ever did it. Perhaps it's a regional thing? Quoted: Common here in Ohio also. If you knock on the screen door, they're not going to be able to hear you. Open it up, and give the main door a good knocking. I'm hesitant to trust the media on anything, but from what we think we know so far, this sounds like a bad shoot to me. Quoted: Screen doors are usually so flimsy that if you knock on them people inside won’t hear it. Some storm doors may be more substantial. I spent about 15 years of my life in New York City. And about 30 years here in southern Florida. I found it common in both places to open the storm door/screen door to knock. Because: 1. "storm" doors are only to keep out wind driven rain/snow. Theyre often glass. They arent as durable as a main door and no one wanted to break them. They also dont transfer the sound of the knock so anyone in the house can actually hear it. My last few homes have had door knockers too. Cant reach the knocker without opening that door. 2. Bug screen doors here in south florida. Because of hurricane impact doors, concrete walls, hurricane impact windows. Youll never hear someone knocking on a bug screen. Youll definitely damage a bug screen "knocking" on it. Also again, door mounted knockers. |
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