What was the worst general issue combat rifle ever made? - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What was the worst general issue combat rifle ever made? (Page 1 of 8)

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:04:13 PM EDT

What do you think?

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:06:59 PM EDT

[#1]

AK-47 Should be in the trash can.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:07:16 PM EDT

[#2]

Attached File

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:07:25 PM EDT

[#3]

WW1 Canadian Ross 303 was pretty bad, had a bolt that could be assembled incorrectly and would fire unlocked

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:07:43 PM EDT

[#4]

Although technically not a bad rifle (othrr then the bolt issue noted above) the Canadian Ross M10 had a pretty bad combat record.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:08:09 PM EDT

[#5]

India's 5.56mm rifle is pretty damn bad, by all accounts

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:08:25 PM EDT

[#6]

Chau-chat automatic rifle.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:08:51 PM EDT

[#7]

In modern times it has to be the British SA-80/L85 before H&K supposedly un-fucked them. Nothing I have heard or read about those has been very positive.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:10:08 PM EDT

[#8]

Can we count LMGs?

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:10:35 PM EDT

[#9]

India's rifle followed by the British L85.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:11:07 PM EDT

[#10]

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India's 5.56mm rifle is pretty damn bad, by all accounts

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That rifle has a lot of WTF going on with it. I've seen it a number of times when I've been in India. It looks like the designers copied a lot of random parts of a lot of rifles and made something that didn't look to do anything any better than any of the rifles they copied.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:11:12 PM EDT

[#11]

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Chau-chat automatic rifle.

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Beat while finding a picture.

When POS issued gun comes to mind...

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:12:07 PM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:
Chau-chat automatic rifle.

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The Chauchat was pretty decent when it wasn't in .30-06. The -06 versions were screwed up by the factory.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:15:19 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
That rifle has a lot of WTF going on with it. I've seen it a number of times when I've been in India. It looks like the designers copied a lot of random parts of a lot of rifles and made something that didn't look to do anything any better than any of the rifles they copied.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MSBvE372A3I/maxresdefault.jpg

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Quoted:

Quoted:
India's 5.56mm rifle is pretty damn bad, by all accounts

That rifle has a lot of WTF going on with it. I've seen it a number of times when I've been in India. It looks like the designers copied a lot of random parts of a lot of rifles and made something that didn't look to do anything any better than any of the rifles they copied.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MSBvE372A3I/maxresdefault.jpg

That has to be the worst didn’t they pull it from front line service a few years ago because it’s so shit and the plastic MAGS are made by a company that makes plastic lawn furniture so they fall apart or something like that?

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:16:19 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
Although technically not a bad rifle (othrr then the bolt issue noted above) the Canadian Ross M10 had a pretty bad combat record.

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Tight chamber, British ammo and trench war conditions.

Adopted because the Brits would not license the SMLE for manufacture in Canada during the Boer war.

Ideally, it would never have been adopted. Not a fan of straight pull rifles

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:18:42 PM EDT

[#15]

I don't know about "worst" but the Mosin Nagant is surely the most overrated.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:20:42 PM EDT

[#16]

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In modern times it has to be the British SA-80/L85 before H&K supposedly un-fucked them. Nothing I have heard or read about those has been very positive.

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Ive read story after story about how much the soldiers hated that weapon.

I think the chauchat is one of the first to come to most people's minds. The Breda 30 is another problematic gun that has been mentioned in some books I've read.

Some small articles (not hard evidence) have referenced a number around 50% for soldiers experiencing jamming in the first few months of M16 fielding. They were quick to correct it, but that is a pretty significant number. I'd be interested to hear more info on first model fielding failures for other rifles.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:21:18 PM EDT

[#17]

M14

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:21:23 PM EDT

[#18]

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The Chauchat was pretty decent when it wasn't in .30-06. The -06 versions were screwed up by the factory.

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I thought the magazines were shit in all calibers, what with the cutout in the side so you could see how many rounds remained plus pack it full of mud in the trenches.

Did they not all have that "feature"?

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:22:08 PM EDT

[#19]

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In modern times it has to be the British SA-80/L85 before H&K supposedly un-fucked them. Nothing I have heard or read about those has been very positive.

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My vote. Required Germans to run even remotely right.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:24:32 PM EDT

[#20]

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M14

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For the U.S., this unfortunately.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:25:56 PM EDT

[#21]

M14

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:26:26 PM EDT

[#22]

M14

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:28:21 PM EDT

[#23]

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For the U.S., this unfortunately.

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For all of NATO, and the development of small arms since. It was/is a terrible platform and the cartridge caused the issues we are still dealing with today.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:29:43 PM EDT

[#24]

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M14

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Obsolete before the first one was produced, completely useless in FA, heavy and unwieldy, exposed bolt which could lead to mud/dirt/sand infiltrating into the action.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:29:47 PM EDT

[#25]

For the US, M14.

Anywhere else in recent history, L85 or INSAS.

The M14 certainly caused the most far-reaching problems down the line, even if it was a reasonably functional rifle. The .30-caliber mafia delayed the fielding of intermediate cartridges in the West by years.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:29:55 PM EDT

[#26]

No FAMAS? We are going to issue a rifle in the same caliber as our allies, but it has to use ammunition with a specific pressure curve to be reliable.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:35:15 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/MWP_Chauchat.JPG/300px-MWP_Chauchat.JPG

Can we count LMGs?

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Quoted:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/MWP_Chauchat.JPG/300px-MWP_Chauchat.JPG

Can we count LMGs?

Quoted:
Chau-chat automatic rifle.

The French version was quite good. It was out shitty 30-06 version that sucked, because we didn't properly modify them to fire a rimless cartridge.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:35:36 PM EDT

[#28]

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M14

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I totally disagree. Mechanically, the M14 is a fine rifle, provided it's used in semi-auto mode only. It's certainly as well made and reliable as its peers, for all intents as purposes.

What made the M14 a less than ideal is that it was introduced about 5-10 years after its peers, the G3 and FAL. In addition, its debut on the battlefield was in an environment for which it was a very poor choice (jungle).

However, the main criticisms of the M14 are also inherent in the G3 and the FAL. They are a bag of worms on full auto, and are too big and too powerful for most modern battlefields.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:37:32 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
I thought the magazines were shit in all calibers, what with the cutout in the side so you could see how many rounds remained plus pack it full of mud in the trenches.

Did they not all have that "feature"?

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Quoted:

The Chauchat was pretty decent when it wasn't in .30-06. The -06 versions were screwed up by the factory.

I thought the magazines were shit in all calibers, what with the cutout in the side so you could see how many rounds remained plus pack it full of mud in the trenches.

Did they not all have that "feature"?

It was a early designed for mass production LMG it had issues but they were overblown by the Tales Of the Gun episode.

Gun Jesus did a good episode in forgotten weapons about it. The 30.06 one was utter garbage because they cut the chambers wrong resulting in over 50% being rejected at the factory if I recall correctly. For light mag fed LMG besides the madsen there was nothing like it for a few years and people managed to correct those defects making it look even worse in hindsight. For example the BAR was designed 3 years after it and required a lot more specialized labor to produce, or the Lewis gun which weighed 8lbs more and also was harder to produce.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:39:12 PM EDT

[#30]

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I don't know about "worst" but the Mosin Nagant is surely the most overrated.

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For a short time the M44 carbine was issued to the Soviet Army and that actually gets my vote as the worst one, mostly for the enormous flash, bang, and recoil that are generated. It was literally insane to issue that rifle.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:46:33 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

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For a short time the M44 carbine was issued to the Soviet Army and that actually gets my vote as the worst one, mostly for the enormous flash, bang, and recoil that are generated. It was literally insane to issue that rifle.

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Why they didn't split the difference with a Mauser-length barrel is beyond me. The Mosin is easily the worst bolt-action of WWII.

The L85 seems to have been a disappointment as well.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:48:42 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

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No FAMAS? We are going to issue a rifle in the same caliber as our allies, but it has to use ammunition with a specific pressure curve to be reliable.

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Still worked though plus France pulled out of NATO in 1966 and didn’t rejoin until 2009. Plus it can use them in a pinch just with higher failure rates and more risk of kaboom that’s a big improvement over WW1,2, Korea when every ally used completely different calibers. Plus it has had a long rather drama free service life. I wouldn’t vote it the best but saying it’s the worst would be a stretch when you have shit like the INSAS being fielded. A rifle thatafter throwing blobs of money at redesigns for national pride the Indians had to give AKs from other countries to their guys most likely to see combat and have had multiple competitions to replace it.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:51:09 PM EDT

[#33]

M-14 ties with every bullpup.

Slight edge to the M-14 being better because at least from everything I've red it was reliable and didn't have to go through a lot of revisions to work well, unlike a lot of bullpups.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:52:01 PM EDT

[#34]

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https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/137867/300px-SA-80_rifle_1996-373800.JPG

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Second Post Nails It

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:54:22 PM EDT

[#35]

Early G3. Worked so poorly the Germans had to buy FALs.

Also Rasheed. Outdated by ten years with only 8000 made.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:54:29 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/MWP_Chauchat.JPG/300px-MWP_Chauchat.JPG

Can we count LMGs?

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Friend of mine got hit in the ribs with a bolt when one of those blew up at a MG shoot .

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:55:48 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

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M14

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The M14 was a fine weapon.

Posted: 11/26/2017 7:58:14 PM EDT

[#38]

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Why they didn't split the difference with a Mauser-length barrel is beyond me. The Mosin is easily the worst bolt-action of WWII.

The L85 seems to have been a disappointment as well.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
For a short time the M44 carbine was issued to the Soviet Army and that actually gets my vote as the worst one, mostly for the enormous flash, bang, and recoil that are generated. It was literally insane to issue that rifle.

Why they didn't split the difference with a Mauser-length barrel is beyond me. The Mosin is easily the worst bolt-action of WWII.

The L85 seems to have been a disappointment as well.

Funny thing, the L-85 was ripped off from the AR-18, and they did such a bad job or doing so even HK couldn't fix all the issues when they were doing a redesign.

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sa80-history-the-first-mockups-sterling-and-stoner/

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:00:22 PM EDT

[#39]

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https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/137867/300px-SA-80_rifle_1996-373800.JPG

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This, got to handle one when hanging out with some Brits in Fort Polk awkward as shit and the guys that had to use them had nothing nice to say about them.

They’d much rather have M4s like any westerner with common sense.

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:01:52 PM EDT

[#40]

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Early G3. Worked so poorly the Germans had to buy FALs.

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Huh? Thought I remember Germans couldn't get a manufacturing license for the FAL so they went with Spanish CETME/G3.

Will have to go dig in the library.

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:04:05 PM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

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Obsolete before the first one was produced, completely useless in FA (not if employed properly), heavy and unwieldy (no more so than other battle rifles of the time), exposed bolt which could lead to mud/dirt/sand infiltrating into the action (which could be said of the Garand which still seemed to do OK.)

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Quoted:

Quoted:
M14

Obsolete before the first one was produced, completely useless in FA (not if employed properly), heavy and unwieldy (no more so than other battle rifles of the time), exposed bolt which could lead to mud/dirt/sand infiltrating into the action (which could be said of the Garand which still seemed to do OK.)

And yet all these years later they are still seeing some use.

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:07:03 PM EDT

[#42]

For those saying M14.........your only half right, the rifle itself is not garbage............far from it. It may be the best semi-auto rifle ever built.................using 1930's technology and mindset.

However, it WAS obsolete before it ever was issued. And the fiasco that was the testing and procurement process for it was perhaps one of the biggest cluster fucks in US small arms history.

The M14 should have been adopted in late WW2, when the then War Dept. had already recognized the Garand needed some "improvements" to keep pace with how rapidly military technology was progressing throughout the war.

Why they basically ignored the STG44 concept post war for another decade or more, especially given the combat exp. gained in WW2 is/was border line criminal.

BTW....I own an M1A and love it. But I am not such a homer, I can't see the forest for the trees.

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:08:29 PM EDT

[#43]

Internationally?

The Enfield L85A1

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:09:12 PM EDT

[#44]

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And yet all these years later they are still seeing some use.

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Because there was literally nothing else to fill the DMR role when we discovered we needed one.

The M14s used in Iraq and Afghanistan were nothing like the ones that were issued when they were first fielded.

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:09:21 PM EDT

[#45]

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What do you think?

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The M 16

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:29:37 PM EDT

[#46]

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M14

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I like the cut of your jib.

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:32:56 PM EDT

[#47]

Not a rifle But the M9 is the biggest POS I was ever issued .................Medic go turn in your 1911 for a really cool paper puncher ,,,,,,,,,

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:37:01 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

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Chau-chat automatic rifle.

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Only the 30-06 conversion. The original French version worked pretty well.

Posted: 11/26/2017 8:38:22 PM EDT

[#49]

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That rifle has a lot of WTF going on with it. I've seen it a number of times when I've been in India. It looks like the designers copied a lot of random parts of a lot of rifles and made something that didn't look to do anything any better than any of the rifles they copied.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MSBvE372A3I/maxresdefault.jpg

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Isn't that the flash hider from Heat????