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Posted: 11/30/2017 7:23:21 AM EST
[#1]
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I'd sell my  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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These threads always devolve into ignorant M14 hatery.  I do not know why we bother having them.  
(for myself, it's the Swiss Arms rifles) 
You're clearly a man of excellent taste. If you ever buy one...don't bother with the integrated bipod. They're so-so on a range with a nice surface to shoot off of, other than that they're useless. I can't wait to buy a shortie, but I can't find a new one for sale anywhere...let alone a new one with diopter sights and a 1:7 twist rate. 
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Posted: 11/30/2017 8:17:15 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The issue ammo used ball powder, that was out of spec for the design. Army would TEST with the proper long grain powder then ISSUE out of spec ball powder to the guys in Vietnam. The result was higher port pressure and a rifle cycling beyond its designed rate, about 1,000 rpm instead of 750 rpm. I believe it was intentially done to destroy the program and go back to a more traditional rifle. |
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Posted: 11/30/2017 8:28:50 AM EST
[#3]
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From Shots Fired in Anger: A Rifleman's view of the war in the Pacific, 1942-1945, including the campaign on Guadalcanal and fighting with Merrill's Marauders in the jungles of Burma, 2nd edition, by Lt. Col. John George (Washington: NRA Book Service, 1991) pp. 393-394.: The .30 Caliber Carbine We never saw this nice little weapon on Guadalcanal, though we had been hearing of it for more than a year. Later on it became the standard arm for all infantry officers of company grade -- and a lot more on the front lines. Most of the battalion and regimental commanders, and many generals, carried carbines in place of pistols. The carbine turned out to be an ace weapon of this war, as far as I am concerned. It was light and handy, powerful, and reasonably accurate. If I had to make my own in hostile jungle, travelling with the lightest possible kit where I should be likely to encounter enemy at any time, the carbine is the weapon I should choose..... The development of the carbine had the effect of putting a good offensive-defensive weapon in the hands of the leader and gun crew member, thereby making him the near-equal of an MI rifleman. The cartridge was powerful enough to penetrate several thicknesses of helmet, and to perforate the plates of the Japanese bullet proof vests, which would only be dented by .45 auto slugs. It was flat shooting enough to have practical accuracy at more than two hundred yards. It would be interesting to know how many casualties it created during the war. Certainly more than all the pistols and revolvers our military has ever used. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For us - the M1 Carbine.  The .30 Caliber Carbine We never saw this nice little weapon on Guadalcanal, though we had been hearing of it for more than a year. Later on it became the standard arm for all infantry officers of company grade -- and a lot more on the front lines. Most of the battalion and regimental commanders, and many generals, carried carbines in place of pistols. The carbine turned out to be an ace weapon of this war, as far as I am concerned. It was light and handy, powerful, and reasonably accurate. If I had to make my own in hostile jungle, travelling with the lightest possible kit where I should be likely to encounter enemy at any time, the carbine is the weapon I should choose..... The development of the carbine had the effect of putting a good offensive-defensive weapon in the hands of the leader and gun crew member, thereby making him the near-equal of an MI rifleman. The cartridge was powerful enough to penetrate several thicknesses of helmet, and to perforate the plates of the Japanese bullet proof vests, which would only be dented by .45 auto slugs. It was flat shooting enough to have practical accuracy at more than two hundred yards. It would be interesting to know how many casualties it created during the war. Certainly more than all the pistols and revolvers our military has ever used. |
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Posted: 11/30/2017 8:30:14 AM EST
[#4]
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In its XM16E1 form (no chrome chamber), combined with the out-of-spec ammo (wrong type of powder), and the "It never needs cleaning" BS being fed to the troops, it certainly deserves consideration for this thread. Seeing photos of soldiers & Marines with cleaning rods taped to the handguards (to pop out stuck casings) is hardly confidence-inspiring. I'd much rather have had an M14 during those years (1965-67). 
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Posted: 11/30/2017 8:46:51 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Moving the goalposts again, huh? Thread is "What was the worst general issue combat rifle ever made?" First you qualify it with worst in the hemisphere, then qualify it with worst in North or South America "for it's era." So you've transmogrified this from "ever" to "for it's era." Since everyone is indeed entitled to an opinion, why in your opinion is the M-14 the worst general issue combat rifle ever made? Or even for only its era. |
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Posted: 11/30/2017 9:19:09 PM EST
[#6]
I don't agree with the M14 being the worst, or even close to the worst. The USGI M14 was so amazingly well made that their parts are still coveted today when someone wants to build a new rifle of that type. Making a rifle of that level of quality today would be very expensive with all the forgings. That rifle was nothing but improvements on an already good rifle, the M1 Garand.
It wasn't controllable on full automatic but no 7.62 NATO rifle ever made has been controllable on full automatic. It uses the same scheme as a SCAR H: 7.62 NATO with a 20 round magazine. I highly recommend the book M14 Rifle History and Development, and also reading the feedback that was formally provided from surveys taken by troops who had used them in combat in Vietnam. |
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Posted: 12/2/2017 1:54:17 PM EST
[#7]
The mosin what utter garbage compared to the Mauser 98 , Smle, or 1903
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Posted: 12/2/2017 9:16:11 PM EST
[#8]
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The mosin what utter garbage compared to the Mauser 98 , Smle, or 1903 Sloppy and clunky beats no function in Russian winter. The Mosin isn't all that bad for a rifle designed in the 1880s. And it's cartridge is still frontline tech in todays battle fields in machineguns. Not so with 06, 303, 8mm. Probably just because there is so much of it around though. But I agree for me and you, any of the models you mentioned are more desirable less junky or more accurate. We are not using them in the same way as the Russians |
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Posted: 12/3/2017 6:20:06 AM EST
[#9]
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Try operating one of those in a -30 Russian winter. The Russians even didn't like the tighter Remington and Westinghouse produced models because of it. Sloppy and clunky beats no function in Russian winter. The Mosin isn't all that bad for a rifle designed in the 1880s. And it's cartridge is still frontline tech in todays battle fields in machineguns. Not so with 06, 303, 8mm. Probably just because there is so much of it around though. But I agree for me and you, any of the models you mentioned are more desirable less junky or more accurate. We are not using them in the same way as the Russians The Main reason none of those calibers is still in frontline use is because we rammed 7.62x51 down everyone's throats in NATO to consolidate those 3 cartridges into 1, Russians stuck with x54R, as they never tried to do a "Automatic Battle Rifle" on a mass scale like we (NATO) did, and made the right choice of going to an intermediate cartridge from the beginning (meaning 1945 and the SKS and later AK). It isn't because x54r is good, its inferior to both 7.62x.63 ('06) and 7.92x57 (8mm) pretty clearly, its because we had another "battle rifle" cartridge before making the jump to an intermediate ("assault rifle") one. |
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Posted: 12/3/2017 6:22:51 AM EST
[#10]
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Posted: 12/3/2017 7:18:08 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't agree with the M14 being the worst, or even close to the worst. The USGI M14 was so amazingly well made that their parts are still coveted today when someone wants to build a new rifle of that type. Making a rifle of that level of quality today would be very expensive with all the forgings. That rifle was nothing but improvements on an already good rifle, the M1 Garand. It wasn't controllable on full automatic but no 7.62 NATO rifle ever made has been controllable on full automatic. It uses the same scheme as a SCAR H: 7.62 NATO with a 20 round magazine. I highly recommend the book M14 Rifle History and Development, and also reading the feedback that was formally provided from surveys taken by troops who had used them in combat in Vietnam. |
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Posted: 12/3/2017 8:23:56 AM EST
[#12]
When you consider the Russian M91, M91/30, it was a simple conscript rifle, reasonably accurate. What did Stalin say? "Quantity has a quality all its own."
If you look at what the Finns did with the rifle, its real potential shines. Simo Hayaa used a mosin. The M28, M28/30 and M39 are all excellent reliable and accurate. The Sniper variant was in use until only recently. So probably not the worst rifle ever fielded. |
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Posted: 12/3/2017 12:03:32 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: empirically speaking, original M1 magazines suck I've never had a misfeed or failure to operate out of an NOS GI 15 round magazine. |
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Posted: 12/3/2017 1:12:07 PM EST
[#14]
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The placement of the bolt handle, and locking lugs was bad and the safety, oh wait, never mind on the safety....... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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French MAS 1936..... |
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Posted: 12/3/2017 6:55:51 PM EST
[#15]
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French doctrine was carry empty and load upon engagement. |
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Posted: 12/3/2017 7:09:17 PM EST
[#16]
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@outofbattery Conceptually, the bullpup is flawed. It's less flawed in the context of a conscript Cold War era force crammed into APCs. All it does well is minimize OAL for a given barrel length/maximize barrel length for a given OAL. In the modern context http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/111-768x527.jpg http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/555-768x436.jpg yeah...but at least it has a 20" barrel! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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AUGs are fantastic rifles. The only people who dislike them,like most modern firearms,are those with bizarre emotional investments or who have never actually shot one. Most complaints about bullpups are rather ridiculous but if you are an elite operator engaging tangos at Walmart every day then perhaps you're best served with artillery and air rather than a rifle anyway. There are very,very,very few legitimately bad modern firearms. Even the INSAS would probably be perfectly serviceable if built in an American or European factory with some semblance of quality control. The whole gun is a fiasco from top to bottom but it's a microcosm of India's worst traits,down to the public defecation brown coloration of the furniture. Conceptually, the bullpup is flawed. It's less flawed in the context of a conscript Cold War era force crammed into APCs. All it does well is minimize OAL for a given barrel length/maximize barrel length for a given OAL. In the modern context http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/111-768x527.jpg http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/555-768x436.jpg yeah...but at least it has a 20" barrel! 
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Posted: 12/3/2017 7:38:16 PM EST
[#17]
Quote History |
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Posted: 12/3/2017 11:23:28 PM EST
[#18]
Quote Historyyeah, this one. |
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Posted: 12/3/2017 11:28:02 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do you say that? I've never had a misfeed or failure to operate out of an NOS GI 15 round magazine. Aftermarket mags have better walls. You're probably using NOS aftermarket, which is basically where the market is saturated. Do not spend serious money on original magazines unless you're doing it for purely collection reasons. |
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Posted: 12/3/2017 11:53:08 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Original magazines were basically "one and done" Aftermarket mags have better walls. You're probably using NOS aftermarket, which is basically where the market is saturated. Do not spend serious money on original magazines unless you're doing it for purely collection reasons. I have dozens of WWII era 15 rd mags from different MFG'ers and I have never had a problem from any of them in either my M1 or M2. |
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Posted: 12/4/2017 12:09:18 AM EST
[#21]
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Disagree. I have dozens of WWII era 15 rd mags from different MFG'ers and I have never had a problem from any of them in either my M1 or M2. |
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Posted: 12/4/2017 12:23:11 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This has not been my experience. The only time I've fired an M1 without malfunction was with Korean aftermarket magazines with a friend's rifle |
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Posted: 12/4/2017 12:30:27 AM EST
[#23]
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M1 Carbines are very finicky with reloads as they headspace off the rim. Was you experiences with reloaded ammo in conjunction with aftermarket magazines? |
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