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Posted: 4/30/2023 7:53:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Interesting analysis of the relevant Korean War weapons, authored by a noted Mil-historian:
http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/reports/after_action/commentary_on_infantry_weapons_korea_1950_51.pdf More recent commentary: https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/the-forgotten-war-the-men-guns-of-korea-1950/ |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 7:56:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: What weapon would you carry as an infantry soldier/Marine during the Korean War if you were able to choose? The one they issue me for my job. Just like in the middle east. There was no "choice" so you get good with what you got. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 7:58:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The one they issue me for my job. Just like in the middle east. There was no "choice" so you get good with what you got. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What weapon would you carry as an infantry soldier/Marine during the Korean War if you were able to choose? The one they issue me for my job. Just like in the middle east. There was no "choice" so you get good with what you got. Troops did exchange weapons, just like in WWII. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 8:02:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I read somewhere that carbines were less than effective there in Korea where the weather was freezing ass cold and the DPR troops were bundled up with layers of clothing. It seems the anemic cartridge in the carbine had a harder time retaining terminal effectiveness after punching through all those layers of clothing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: carbine with night vision. Uh huh. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 8:05:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M1 Carbine tended to jam more than the others, but the lack of penetration has been tested and found to be false. M1 Carbine Frozen Clothes M1 Carbine Myths While I believe it is largely a myth, someone needs to test period correct layered communist clothing in deep cold with the outer layers encrusted in ice, not some random clothing that they pulled out of their freezer and then shot in the middle of the desert. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 8:13:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While I believe it is largely a myth, someone needs to test period correct layered communist clothing in deep cold with the outer layers encrusted in ice, not some random clothing that they pulled out of their freezer and then shot in the middle of the desert. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: M1 Carbine tended to jam more than the others, but the lack of penetration has been tested and found to be false. M1 Carbine Frozen Clothes M1 Carbine Myths While I believe it is largely a myth, someone needs to test period correct layered communist clothing in deep cold with the outer layers encrusted in ice, not some random clothing that they pulled out of their freezer and then shot in the middle of the desert. No, they don't. Winter jackets don't stop bullets cruising at 1900 fps. I don't care what you make them out of or how much you freeze them. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 8:15:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Garand
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Posted: 4/30/2023 8:17:30 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 4/30/2023 8:17:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, they don't. Winter jackets don't stop bullets cruising at 1900 fps. I don't care what you make them out of or how much you freeze them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: M1 Carbine tended to jam more than the others, but the lack of penetration has been tested and found to be false. M1 Carbine Frozen Clothes M1 Carbine Myths While I believe it is largely a myth, someone needs to test period correct layered communist clothing in deep cold with the outer layers encrusted in ice, not some random clothing that they pulled out of their freezer and then shot in the middle of the desert. No, they don't. Winter jackets don't stop bullets cruising at 1900 fps. I don't care what you make them out of or how much you freeze them. Garand Thumb should do a video on this. 
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Posted: 4/30/2023 8:18:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Thompson Sub Machine gun
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Posted: 4/30/2023 8:23:04 PM EDT
[#11]
for a should fired small arm with the kind of combat that was going on there
M3A1 Grease gun...... .45ACP sub gun that's pretty basic would've worked fine |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 8:24:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Garand
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Posted: 4/30/2023 8:56:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, they don't. Winter jackets don't stop bullets cruising at 1900 fps. I don't care what you make them out of or how much you freeze them. What if the outer layers are saturated with ice that's built up over weeks or months of living in -30 or colder weather? That might be enough to make the occasional shot to glance off or at least cause a less serious wound to the wearer than it would have otherwise. Or not, but until someone has a more convincing demonstration than shooting a barely frozen bathtowel in the Arizona desert, I wouldn't discount it entirely. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 9:02:42 PM EDT
[#14]
M3 Grease Gun.
lulz "I'll take the M3 Grease Gun!" Said no one ever. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 9:03:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if the outer layers are saturated with ice that's built up over weeks or months of living in -30 or colder weather? That might be enough to make the occasional shot to glance off or at least cause a less serious wound to the wearer than it would have otherwise. Or not, but until someone has a more convincing demonstration than shooting a barely frozen bathtowel in the Arizona desert, I wouldn't discount it entirely. Dude. Its ice. Any layer thick enough to make any noticeable difference whatsoever would weigh more than the chinese peasant it was stuck to. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 9:07:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Spent a year and a half in Korea - give me something that has a lot of reach and a lot of capacity. 7.62 would be preferable to 5.56 in my opinion.
But when you start talking about humping yama's for days on end, suddenly 5.56 sounds pretty nice. 
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Posted: 4/30/2023 9:09:22 PM EDT
[#17]
My uncle was a 2nd Lt. in 1953. He carried a Thompson SMG and traded it for a M-2 carbine due to the weight.
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Posted: 4/30/2023 9:09:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M3 Grease Gun. lulz "I'll take the M3 Grease Gun!" Said no one ever. Guys in the WWII threads were bitching that I had the Thompson as a choice instead of the Grease Gun. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 9:12:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dude. Its ice. Any layer thick enough to make any noticeable difference whatsoever would weigh more than the chinese peasant it was stuck to. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What if the outer layers are saturated with ice that's built up over weeks or months of living in -30 or colder weather? That might be enough to make the occasional shot to glance off or at least cause a less serious wound to the wearer than it would have otherwise. Or not, but until someone has a more convincing demonstration than shooting a barely frozen bathtowel in the Arizona desert, I wouldn't discount it entirely. Dude. Its ice. Any layer thick enough to make any noticeable difference whatsoever would weigh more than the chinese peasant it was stuck to. Alaska state troopers carry 40cal because of the multiple outer clothing people wear in winter. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 9:14:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Troops did exchange weapons, just like in WWII. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What weapon would you carry as an infantry soldier/Marine during the Korean War if you were able to choose? The one they issue me for my job. Just like in the middle east. There was no "choice" so you get good with what you got. Troops did exchange weapons, just like in WWII. We never did. And I'm not switching to a weapon I haven't trained with. I'll stick to the one I trained with every day ending in Y. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 9:17:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wet and sandy fur slows bullets down pretty quick and does make penetration tough. Alaska state troopers carry 40cal because of the multiple outer clothing people wear in winter. Uh huh. And if they swapped their 40 cals for .30 carbine, do you think they'd suddenly encounter difficulty penetrating that winter clothing? |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 9:25:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Father in law was in Korea with an M1/M2 carbine. Said that one night he fired it so much the handguard and forestock burned.
The extent of the charring was so bad that they elected to bury the carbine later on. Lot of shooting done. Only thing he worried about was having enough loaded magazines available. rongoromgo |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 9:35:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I read somewhere that carbines were less than effective there in Korea where the weather was freezing ass cold and the DPR troops were bundled up with layers of clothing. It seems the anemic cartridge in the carbine had a harder time retaining terminal effectiveness after punching through all those layers of clothing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: carbine with night vision. Myth….they missed |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 9:52:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if the outer layers are saturated with ice that's built up over weeks or months of living in -30 or colder weather? That might be enough to make the occasional shot to glance off or at least cause a less serious wound to the wearer than it would have otherwise. Or not, but until someone has a more convincing demonstration than shooting a barely frozen bathtowel in the Arizona desert, I wouldn't discount it entirely. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No, they don't. Winter jackets don't stop bullets cruising at 1900 fps. I don't care what you make them out of or how much you freeze them. What if the outer layers are saturated with ice that's built up over weeks or months of living in -30 or colder weather? That might be enough to make the occasional shot to glance off or at least cause a less serious wound to the wearer than it would have otherwise. Or not, but until someone has a more convincing demonstration than shooting a barely frozen bathtowel in the Arizona desert, I wouldn't discount it entirely. What scenario do you imagine where a winter jacket is so saturated with ice that it can stop or deflect a bullet? The malnourished guy wearing it will be dead long before a carbine is aimed at him. The myth probably came from some guy who wasn't quite as good a shot as he thought he was, and his son or grandson repeated it as gospel. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 10:07:39 PM EDT
[#25]
The biggest issue with 30 carbine was people not hitting what they were shooting at. There’s a couple problems stacking up. If I’m in a foxhole with a guy who’s got a garand and across the valley is a division of Chinese soldiers blowing bugles and crashing symbols shooting rifles at us. My buddy with a garand is going to be shooting and when he is the natural instincts for me is going to be shooting also. Maybe we’re within range for his garand but we probably are well out of range with the carbine. Similarly if I’ve got the happy switch poked forward and I miss the first shot I probably also missed the ten after it. Most people however will never say they could have possible missed.
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Posted: 4/30/2023 10:29:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Some of you guys might want to actually read what Korean War combat vets said about the weapons they fought with. The M1 carbine wasn’t highly praised at all, other than it was lighter to tote around than the M1 Garand and held more than 8-rds in the detachable mags. It was mostly viewed as combat ineffective, or not much more effective than if fighting solely with a pistol (1911). At close range the Thompson was a better weapon and certainly at longer ranges the Garand was better.
Overwhelming in a firefight against a human wave of screaming Commie gooks running at them, the soldiers preferred machine-gun fire and M1 Garands. Below is a link to the book containing transcripts of statements from both WW2 and Korean War vets. In other words, as told in their own words: https://www.amazon.com/Infantry-Weapons-Combat-Personal-Experiences/dp/1888722150 Highly recommended. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 10:31:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of you guys might want to actually read what Korean War combat vets said about the weapons they fought with. The M1 carbine wasn’t highly praised at all, other than it was lighter to tote around than the M1 Garand and held more than 8-rds in the detachable mags. It was mostly viewed as combat ineffective, or not much more effective than if fighting solely with a pistol (1911). At close range the Thompson was a better weapon and certainly at longer ranges the Garand was better. Overwhelming in a firefight against a human wave of screaming Commie gooks running at them, the soldiers preferred machine-gun fire and M1 Garands. Below is a link to the book containing transcripts of statements from both WW2 and Korean War vets: https://www.amazon.com/Infantry-Weapons-Combat-Personal-Experiences/dp/1888722150 Highly recommended. Written in 2005. When were the interviews conducted? |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 10:33:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Written in 2005. When were the interviews conducted? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Some of you guys might want to actually read what Korean War combat vets said about the weapons they fought with. The M1 carbine wasn’t highly praised at all, other than it was lighter to tote around than the M1 Garand and held more than 8-rds in the detachable mags. It was mostly viewed as combat ineffective, or not much more effective than if fighting solely with a pistol (1911). At close range the Thompson was a better weapon and certainly at longer ranges the Garand was better. Overwhelming in a firefight against a human wave of screaming Commie gooks running at them, the soldiers preferred machine-gun fire and M1 Garands. Below is a link to the book containing transcripts of statements from both WW2 and Korean War vets: https://www.amazon.com/Infantry-Weapons-Combat-Personal-Experiences/dp/1888722150 Highly recommended. Written in 2005. When were the interviews conducted? The author discusses such background details in the book. Forward written by Garand Master Expert, Scott Duff. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 10:34:18 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The author discusses such background details in the book. Forward written by Garand Master Expert, Scott Duff. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Some of you guys might want to actually read what Korean War combat vets said about the weapons they fought with. The M1 carbine wasn’t highly praised at all, other than it was lighter to tote around than the M1 Garand and held more than 8-rds in the detachable mags. It was mostly viewed as combat ineffective, or not much more effective than if fighting solely with a pistol (1911). At close range the Thompson was a better weapon and certainly at longer ranges the Garand was better. Overwhelming in a firefight against a human wave of screaming Commie gooks running at them, the soldiers preferred machine-gun fire and M1 Garands. Below is a link to the book containing transcripts of statements from both WW2 and Korean War vets: https://www.amazon.com/Infantry-Weapons-Combat-Personal-Experiences/dp/1888722150 Highly recommended. Written in 2005. When were the interviews conducted? The author discusses such background details in the book. Forward written by Garand Master Expert, Scott Duff. I don't have the book in front of me. What are the background details? |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 10:36:34 PM EDT
[#30]
muh 1911
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Posted: 4/30/2023 10:36:44 PM EDT
[#31]
I had two good friends who were infantry Marines during the Korean War. One loved his M-1 rifle, the other loved his M-2 carbine.
My friend's M-2 was destroyed by friendly fire when a barrage of 105mm artillery landed short. He was very upset and had to carry on with an M-1 rifle he scrounge up after the dust had settled. Both served well and the M-1 rifle was valuable for it's long range accuracy I'm told. I'd be happy with either. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 10:38:14 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't have the book in front of me. What are the background details? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Some of you guys might want to actually read what Korean War combat vets said about the weapons they fought with. The M1 carbine wasn’t highly praised at all, other than it was lighter to tote around than the M1 Garand and held more than 8-rds in the detachable mags. It was mostly viewed as combat ineffective, or not much more effective than if fighting solely with a pistol (1911). At close range the Thompson was a better weapon and certainly at longer ranges the Garand was better. Overwhelming in a firefight against a human wave of screaming Commie gooks running at them, the soldiers preferred machine-gun fire and M1 Garands. Below is a link to the book containing transcripts of statements from both WW2 and Korean War vets: https://www.amazon.com/Infantry-Weapons-Combat-Personal-Experiences/dp/1888722150 Highly recommended. Written in 2005. When were the interviews conducted? The author discusses such background details in the book. Forward written by Garand Master Expert, Scott Duff. I don't have the book in front of me. What are the background details? Don’t have it in front of me either, just now. Will have to follow up later. |
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Posted: 4/30/2023 11:21:48 PM EDT
[#33]
M-1 Garand
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Posted: 5/1/2023 12:18:04 AM EDT
[#34]
M1 garand with as much ammo as I could carry.
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Posted: 5/1/2023 1:05:25 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What scenario do you imagine where a winter jacket is so saturated with ice that it can stop or deflect a bullet? The malnourished guy wearing it will be dead long before a carbine is aimed at him. The myth probably came from some guy who wasn't quite as good a shot as he thought he was, and his son or grandson repeated it as gospel. Through the course of normal activities combined with limited opportunities to get warm and dry. Even a person's breath can eventually freeze and accumulate on the front of their jacket if its cold enough and the material is not sufficiently moisture repellent. I would imagine that at least some of these guys were wearing multiple pairs of pants and tops, as I've had to do in the extreme cold. |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 1:34:59 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My uncle was a 2nd Lt. in 1953. He carried a Thompson SMG and traded it for a M-2 carbine due to the weight. My uncle Joe was a young E5 in the Infantry and carried an M1 until he was captured by the norks in 1950. His brother, my grandpa, carried an M1 during the battle of the bulge. Give me the M1 any time.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 4:44:35 PM EDT
[#37]
I asked a couple of Korea era vets this same thing a long time ago. Same answer. You carried what you were told to and rarely had a choice. If you were issued a carbine or M3 smg it was generally for a reason, like personal defense or guard duty. Vietnam and later, yes there was some flexibility.
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Posted: 5/1/2023 4:49:12 PM EDT
[#38]
M1C but with a MRDS using a picatinny mount on the M84 scope.
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Posted: 5/1/2023 4:50:34 PM EDT
[#39]
1903A4.
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Posted: 5/1/2023 4:50:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This would've been solid planning, but "not invented here" syndrome is part of why we didn't adopt the BM-59 or FAL, to say nothing of the BHP, or any SMGs that didn't suck. We could have come up with the BM-59 ourselves. |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 4:52:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: for a should fired small arm with the kind of combat that was going on there M3A1 Grease gun...... .45ACP sub gun that's pretty basic would've worked fine I'd prefer a captured PPsh-41. |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 4:54:12 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd prefer a captured PPsh-41. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: for a should fired small arm with the kind of combat that was going on there M3A1 Grease gun...... .45ACP sub gun that's pretty basic would've worked fine I'd prefer a captured PPsh-41. Feeding that bitch at 1200 RPM might be a challenge. |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 5:06:47 PM EDT
[#43]
M1C all day long.
But I’d carry spare belt ammo and grenades. |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 5:11:18 PM EDT
[#44]
My Dad had an M1 in Korea and he had no complaints.
I'd buy him one if I had the money to do it. |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 5:25:24 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of you guys might want to actually read what Korean War combat vets said about the weapons they fought with. The M1 carbine wasn’t highly praised at all, other than it was lighter to tote around than the M1 Garand and held more than 8-rds in the detachable mags. It was mostly viewed as combat ineffective, or not much more effective than if fighting solely with a pistol (1911). At close range the Thompson was a better weapon and certainly at longer ranges the Garand was better. Overwhelming in a firefight against a human wave of screaming Commie gooks running at them, the soldiers preferred machine-gun fire and M1 Garands. Below is a link to the book containing transcripts of statements from both WW2 and Korean War vets. In other words, as told in their own words: https://www.amazon.com/Infantry-Weapons-Combat-Personal-Experiences/dp/1888722150 Highly recommended. I have not read this book but if this is stated I would hold the rest of the assertions as suspect. Not even getting to stopping power of the cartridges, magazine capacity, or ballistics of barrel length, the simple ease of shooting the M1 Carbine accurately over any handgun (much less a 1911) should have us as skeptics. |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 5:27:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Dad didn't talk much about Korea but he did mention once he carried an M2 Carbine. He said he had no complaints.
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Posted: 5/1/2023 5:31:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryPardon my mistake. I stand corrected! |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 6:20:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Carbine
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Posted: 5/1/2023 6:21:41 PM EDT
[#49]
Tell us more about these!
Quote HistoryQuoted: I voted for the carbine, but the MG42 and STG44 made in Ohio are the actual right answer. |
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Posted: 5/1/2023 8:22:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell us more about these! Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell us more about these! Quoted: I voted for the carbine, but the MG42 and STG44 made in Ohio are the actual right answer. I’m agreeing with the poster who said we should have taken the MG42 and STG44 and started making them ourselves. Fuck a Kraut manufacturing license I know they make tanks there now, but wasn’t there an arsenal in Ohio back then? Maybe it was the beers getting Ohio Ordnance of today mixed up with the 1950s era production centers. |
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