Up close from about thirty to fifty yards out and closer than that it will do the job down in the woods. Proven. Japanese are fairly small framed anyway same as most asians are in their natural element as well.

In Elemental Minecraft.

M3 Grease gun is missing from the poll so I answered with the M1 Carbine. Maybe even an M1897 if full brass shells are available.

I’m looking for capacity and rate of fire over the extra distance and power the Garand provides.

STG 44...................

The Johnson has a reciprocating barrel. It doesn’t cycle with the bayonet on. This design flag plagued the weapon for its entire service life and was never fixed. Since the winner of a bayonet fight is the last man with a loaded rifle I would be hard pressed to ever mount the bayonet.

I agree. A M1 Carbine with good mags is a very capable weapon indeed. As is the M1 Garand. In combat I’m going to err on the side of personal weapon with a larger magazine and the ability to, pound for pound carry more ammo. Still would be nice to have teammates with garands to perforate cover. Really the two weapons are complementary to one another.

The paratroopers that jumped into Normandy with M1 Carbines had rigger made pouches that held 5x 15 rnd. mags each and they carried 4 pouches on their web belt  plus 2 in a butt pouch plus one mag inserted in the weapon. For a total of 345 rnds loaded in mags, ready to go.

Someone back then said that the safest place on the Pacific battlefield was right behind a Marine rifle platoon. I'll bet.

Edit: except for the asshole with the Bazooka!

I have read that their life expectancy was four minutes in the Pacific.

Other than maybe STG44 armed German units Late war US Infantry consistently had the most firepower per man at the platoon level.

BAR simply cause I like them and I’d want to lay some hate down on the enemy.

Well, I have never tried to fire mine with the bayonet, so maybe I will give it a go next range trip, but I do agree it would probably would not be very effective.

Absolutely going carbine if Johnson LMG isn't a choice.  I've worn out multiple garand barrels, to the tune of 15k rounds through them, and would still pick a carbine.

M1 carbine gets you non-corrosive ammo, more ammo, and the ability to shoot through Japanese armor (it existed ) that .45ACP can't. They can and were field converted to full auto as well.

If you read dulap, and the other gun oriented books, M1s shooting corrosive ammo rusted up pretty fast, corroding the gas piston so they became straight pull bolt actions.  Hilariously, they were more reliable, if you can call turning into a bolt action, than the 1903, just because of the stupid 2 piece firing pin.  

Also, a huge problem with Garands was that the front of the rifle got very shiny, very quickly when the crap finish wore off the stainless:

but this is ARFCOM GD

A bit surprised by the results of m1 Garand against the m1carbine.

I do love my carbine but if somebody is shooting at me the Garand would be my choice . Way more power and rifle/ammo only 3 or 4 lbs more.


If I was some kind of support mostly expected to be in the rear I would likely grab the carbine , anything more up front and I want 8 round clips full of 06 goodness.

If I had my choice ?

I'd man a 16" Main gun on the Might Mo'

+1000

the Garand is an excellent rifle


 

M2 Carbine with 30s.

If the Garand was good enough for my grandfather (the Marine looking at the camera) it would have been good enough for me


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Not PTO theater but still related-

My g'pa was a courier with the 70th ID in ETO (a.k.a. a "jeep jockey"), he drive to and from the front from late '44 until the end of the war. He was issued the M1 Garand, carried it in the scabbard. Towards the end of the war he was given an M1 Carbine and loved it. He knew the rifle offered more range and power per shot, but the carbine was good enough based on the "word" of other soldiers. He really liked the smaller size, weight, and "handi-ness".

FWIW.... I'd take the M1 Carbine all day long in the PTO.

I have been fortunate enough to fire all six on the list, and own all but two.

I love the handy M-1 carbine, but would still go with the Garand.

Winchester Model 1897

I could be convinced to go Garand if they had non-corrosive primers for it.  Based on the books already mentioned in this thread, from people working on them, Garands corroded badly in the Pacific.

I've never had a Carbine jam in a way that wasn't cleared with immediate action, and swapping mags.  I have had several Garands dismount op-rods, which takes a LOT longer to fix.  That makes it second choice, although WAY above anything in 45ACP.

Which does my unit have the most ammo for?

The M2 was only used at the very end of the war, on Okinawa and during the mopping-up phase of the Philippines campaign.

There were field converted carbines at least as early as D-Day in the EU.  Most, but not all of them were FA only though.

The Marines at Guadalcanal were mainly armed with the O3A3 Springfield.  My father in law (USMC 1939-1948) loved his.  Hated it when they were told to turn them in for the Garand, a rifle he had no use for whatsoever.  And this for the rest of hi long life.  (He died at age 97.)  He did use and master it but never had any particular attachment to it.  He did show me a way to avoid M1 thumb.  When I showed him my 03 Springfield it looked at it like it was a long lost love.  He actually showed me his technique to turn it into a pretty rapid fire weapon.  During the recoil he would slap the bolt to open and close it and by the time he had the rifle back on target it was ready to fire again.  All within a few seconds.  If I hadn't seen it myself I would not have believed it possible.  

He was involved when the Marines tested the M41 Johnson at Gitmo before the war. He absolutely loved that rifle and was convinced that some sort of payoff was used when the Marines selected the Garand.  The Johnson was just as durable.  More accurate and much easier to relaod.  You could remain in the prone position while reloading.  It had the added advantage of being able to easily top off the magazine at any time.  

When he became 1st Sgt. he was issued an M1 Carbine.  Another firearm for which he had no use.  He swapped it out for a Thompson as he preferred the knockdown power of the large slow moving round.  It was an ideal weapon for the jungle fighting in which he was involved.  He liked that because there could not get shotguns.  While the carbine could kill, the Thompson was better at it.  That is based upon his experience with both weapons as he related it to me.  

He didn't talk much about combat but did relate one story.  They were always getting the last man in their patrols picked off and cold not figure out why.  So on one patrol the sgt. was the last man in line and he was going to try to figure out what was going on.  They had a 15 year old southern boy in their unit that told everyone he was 18.   He had developed the mosey to an art form and it got to the point where even the sgt passed him by.  A few seconds after the sgt passed him by he heard a rifle shot behind him and ran back to find the guy just standing there looking around.  He stared to dress him down pretty good as they were under orders to remain as silent as possible.  

The kid says nothing and then walks to the side of the path and kicks open a spider hole with a dead Japanese soldier in it.  He looks at the sgt and says that he figured that since the Japanese soldier was aiming at his back he figured it would be okay to make a little noise.  After that it became SOP while on patrols to have a soldier trailing the patrol.  Shortly after that the kids age became known and he was shipped back home.  How true this story is I have no idea

Carbine with folding stock

I can bring my type 99 if you can get a Johnson. I do love a good bayonet sparing session. I taught a bit too at SOI. Scabbards on of course. In a meeting engagement of a straight bayonet fight (a rarity I admit) the first strike is what kills and the length of the “unergonomic spear” is the determining factor as to who lands that first killing blow.

The Marines on Guadalcanal used 1903s, not 03A3s.

Very interesting post just the same; thanks for sharing.

Well put.

My father called it a slaughter weapon.

I watched a video of some relic hunters on Edson's Ridge at guadalcanal. There were 45 projectiles everywhere. Some folks had been putting the Thompson to good use in those night battles.

Garand.

Lol @ the m1 carbine bandwagon all of a sudden

ITSLIGHTSOITSBETTER POUNDSAREPAIN

I'd carry my Johnson.

I will do a thread about Korea next. Nobody will want a carbine because of those bullet proof Chinese jackets.

Garand

BAR without the bipod.  Twice+ the capacity of the M1 rifle with the capability of single shot or full auto.


Knock, knock.


This must be some of that close in jungle work.
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Yes, compared to the .30-06 Garand but so is the M16, M14, and M60.  The carbine is more powerful than just about any handgun round with a much longer reach.  I'm pretty sure it's more powerful than the Thompson, as well.  It'll do, pig.  It'll do.

Ruger Madden a revolver chambered in .30 carbine. Essentially it was (or is) a pistol caliber carbine.

Other than his debunked research that excerpt shows SLA Marshal was full of shit. I’ve never met a soldier that couldn’t look at a piece of issues gear and immediately give you 10 ways it could be better.

For me

Grand
M1 carbine
Thompson
Johnson 1941
BAR
1911
1919
Flame Thrower

there is a good chance that your father and my grandfather crossed paths at all those places. He was in the 2nd as well and was at all the same stops. hopefully they shared a brew.

he rarely talked about it but several things come to mind from his experiences as a Sharpshooter/Paramarine.

1- it was incredible the amount of fire power from ALL the weaponry the Marines put on line once contact was made.
2- men with Garands would sometimes find targets first but it wasn't long before BAR and Thompson guys would join in to finish it.
3- shooters and loaders. many times the only man who actually knew where he had spotted a target moving around was the closest man to the "point". he would shoot till he was empty and someone from behind him would hand him a loaded weapon of some sort while he never took eyes off of the area the target was in. very efficient.

he said some men were just naturally better at being in the jungle, hunting something. everyone knew that and let them hunt the enemy.
men naturally did what they were good at and he stated that he and several other men hunting the enemy like "Rabbits" back home. he said alot of the time you only "snap shot" at a running enemy through the bush, very much like rabbits or deer drives.

4- alot of men would get extra battlefield pickup to sling over their back in the middle of a firefight and at the end of a confrontation you might have magazines from BARs, Thompsons or Carbines stuck in your belts and pockets.

5- men only carried what they needed. I look back at his pictures and those men were damn near anorexic. clothes torn, hanging off. total survivors.

the jungle fighting was brutal as many people have written or read about.
we were told many times by my other grandfather who fought in Italy on up, Korea and the early days of VN not to ask him about anything from the Pacific. it was a total hell and he was a functioning alcoholic from the day he came home till the day he died. my Grandfather would never really talk about the Pacific, except in random thoughts that came out of no where.

what we have in common is,…reliability issues with very old weapons

My CMP Garand is very reliable
easy to shoot
quick to reload
CLANGS 400yrd steel with authority

I’ve never had a carbine that was very reliable

these things are old

My replies are somewhat tongue in cheek about the “REMF” carbine

no no, the GD bandwagon has spoken, the M1 Carbine is the finest military weapon ever made

I would have ditched that ridiculous bipod as well.

You seem hurt others have a differing opinion than you.

I voted carbine  thinking a lot of my fellow Marines would have rifles and I shoot carbines pretty well.   I take issue with those who refer to the Carbine as underpowered or as a pistol caliber carbine. Underpowered for what? It was designed to replace pistols and it was far more powerful than any military pistol. It had enough power for its purpose. Would more power be better? Yes, but you are trading some of the advantages of the lightweight, more maneuverable, higher capacity carbine. As much as I respect the history and enjoy shooting Thompson’s, I see little if any reason to prefer it over a carbine except in a few specific scenarios.  As the war progressed, the Marine Corps replaced a lot of Thompson’s with carbines. It started as a pistol replacement, but carbines were pushed more and more to the front lines.  Toward the end of the war we added the bayonet lug and more adjustable rear sights.  I would never want to replace all rifles with carbines in an infantry unit, keep a good mix.

I’ll be switching my vote to BAR for that one. Range and penetration coupled with better capacity then the garand for the seemingly endless waves of Maos soldiers banging symbols and throwing hand grenades.

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