[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Who here works at an ammo manufacturer? Let's compare notes!*Wolf, Rem, Win, etc--are you out there (Page 6 of 8)
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What's the deal with thin webs in FC headstamped 223 brass? Makes for soft primer pockets when get loose after 1 or 2 firings and thus has a bad rep in the reloading circles. Also what's the deal with LC headstamped brass in those red American Eagle boxes of .223? It should be FC headstamps right? |
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Looks like a Barnes TSX bullet.
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XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. What military is buying M193? This is an common point of contention when XM193 is discussed, do you have any answers to this? only what I have posted––somewhere along the line, LC makes M193 and federal gets the rejects, which are Xm193. We can only deduce that someone, somewhere is using M193. Soerry I can't do better than that. Someone from LC needs to hop on and fill us in. Quoted:
One thing I forgot about the .mil rounds––we make the SCAR load in 556 and 762, the bullets are made in house. All become SCAR rounds and are sent to various .mil and government agencies. the brown tipped training round (frangible and non toxic) is out sourced (bullet) and assembled in-house. What are these? Are these labeled as FN ammunition? Projectile type and weight? Here's a pic of one of the employee's 7.62 SCAR round boxes. Pretty special projectile and very effective. The material is "smart" and reacts differently depending on what it hits. Reports from the field have been very positive. http://i46.tinypic.com/e6vqzm.jpg +1 the deep rings are pretty telling and designed to reduce copper fouling IIRC |
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Looks like a Barnes TSX bullet.
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XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. What military is buying M193? This is an common point of contention when XM193 is discussed, do you have any answers to this? only what I have posted––somewhere along the line, LC makes M193 and federal gets the rejects, which are Xm193. We can only deduce that someone, somewhere is using M193. Soerry I can't do better than that. Someone from LC needs to hop on and fill us in. Quoted:
One thing I forgot about the .mil rounds––we make the SCAR load in 556 and 762, the bullets are made in house. All become SCAR rounds and are sent to various .mil and government agencies. the brown tipped training round (frangible and non toxic) is out sourced (bullet) and assembled in-house. What are these? Are these labeled as FN ammunition? Projectile type and weight? Here's a pic of one of the employee's 7.62 SCAR round boxes. Pretty special projectile and very effective. The material is "smart" and reacts differently depending on what it hits. Reports from the field have been very positive. http://i46.tinypic.com/e6vqzm.jpg +1 the deep rings are pretty telling and designed to reduce copper fouling IIRC The projectile is TBBC like in construction, although the core is not bonded. Here is a thread I started about the Mk 318 5.56mm and Mk 319 7.62mm ammunition. |
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I will prolly get flamed for low post count but I work at Speer in ATK's Lewiston plant as a centerfire metal parts setup. I setup and run machines that make 380, 9 40 and 45 in speer, cci, blazer brass, and federal. We do have a company store and I am barely allowed to buy what I shoot in a week every thursday. Lewiston plants (speer, cci, southport) are running 24/7. We are expanding RAPIDLY. Adding many new machines here in a couple months and have lots of extra people ready so they are all still properly manned. Shoot any questions...I've only been there since June but my father has been there since 1978. What can you tell me about this ammo? Speer bulk packaged 124 grain Gold Dots for practice only. 9mm 124gr Gold Dot HP Speer CCI 250 round
$84.99 9mm 124gr Gold Dot HP Speer CCI 250 round Gold Dot is the top of the line CCI defense / Law enforcement ammo. This is 250 rounds bulk practice ammo. This is a smokin deal. That works out to $6.80 per 20 rounds It is a limited supply, so it will not last. Wow I didn't know there was any of this stuff still around. About 5 years ago Speer had a problem with some of their golddot ammo, something about the primers not being waterproof? They could not sell it as LE ammo for liability reasons so they "Reclassified" it as range ammo only and sold it CHEAP! I have gone thru about 2000 9mm and 1500 .40 and never had one failure. The stuff is accurate too. I think you could use it as self defense ammo if you really want. Here's the part that wil make you cry. They were selling the 9mm 124 golddot +P for about $8 per box of 50 when they first reclassified it. It was still in the 50 round boxes, they started bulk packing them soon after. I got most of mine from ammoman.com probably 5 years ago. |
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wow this thread has gotten a little more popular than I anticipated at first...
well to answer a previous question i just found about us making 17 for all makers...(i don't think i answered...if i did...my sincere apologies! We make our CCI flavors of 17.....druuummmmroooollllll... as well as the "other brands" different propellants and primer mixtures are used and I believe that they usually source their own bullets....I now that H_______'s does anyway. |
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Yup, good vid. We have some cute gals working at Federal, as well.
SO 
Where is Winchester and Remington? Or anyone form the European makers? We'd all like to hear about your methods and what it's like to work there.... I think the quality jobs at Federal are the coolest. That's what I'm looking to move into. AFSOC, what are the skills and qualities best needed to get into the quality area at ATK? |
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Yup, good vid. We have some cute gals working at Federal, as well. SO
Where is Winchester and Remington? Or anyone form the European makers? We'd all like to hear about your methods and what it's like to work there.... I think the quality jobs at Federal are the coolest. That's what I'm looking to move into. AFSOC, what are the skills and qualities best needed to get into the quality area at ATK? My job required me to take a Math and Blueprint reading test. I can't discuss the test at all. I also have a background in machine trades, Metal Working, Gunsmithing, Reloading, Military, etc, etc. I also have technical experience in a great number of other things. |
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Sounds good enough for me. who sells it nowadays? Quoted:
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So faulty xm193 is bad qc? Quoted:
Been shooting the XM-193 for a long assed time (probably longer than most here have been shooting), I have never had a faulty round... Then again I have shot millions of rounds of XM855PD and only ever had ONE bent round that failed to chamber... I have bought a ton of the stuff and still haven't broken into my 09 headstamp stuff. I am still buying it and will continue to do so (No I do not get a discount, we are supposed to have an employee ammo sale but I have YET to get anything that I ordered!) I buy from a distributor as a dealer, which I am as well. Don't know what Failures you have encountered but I won't say that it is without peer... Though I have tested a lot of ammunition myself not for LC, and I have found the XM loadings to be FAR more consistent in velocity shot to shot than any other ammunition tested... To include Q3131A, Olin MFR M855, Federal Commercial loading (Bulk pack from Walmart) Wolf, PPU, TCW, Centurion, etc. All has been within Military specification. IMI I found to be the hottest ammunition tested... generally a couple hundred feet per second faster than the US mfr... I have not recently done any accuracy testing. But Saturday I sighted in a handful of rifles and the LC XM-193 03 was the most accurate that I had on hand, it grouped tighter than the other loadings... (HSM 62 grain FMJBT loading) But that said the commercial product doesn't stand the same QC as the Military ammuntion, Military ammo can be rejected for ANY reason whatsoever... Not accurate enough, too many failures, too shiney, not shiney enough case annealing, sealants, light headstamp, heavy headstamp, etc etc... the list is endless... really... Generally speaking any product that is found to have too many "FAILURES" to fire is destroyed, Any defects found to be dangerous, destroyed. Keep in mind that the XM product is sold as a training ammunition not front line tactical ammunition. I would still be far more likely to carry this into harm's way than just about anything else in it's price range. So far I have 2600 rounds of 09 headstamp on hand. When I start shooting it I will keep an eye out for failures. All I can tell is that the ammunition being manufactured in that building as commercial is being packaged and manufactured AS COMMERCIAL I don't make policy. |
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Sounds good enough for me. who sells it nowadays? Quoted:
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So faulty xm193 is bad qc? Quoted:
Been shooting the XM-193 for a long assed time (probably longer than most here have been shooting), I have never had a faulty round... Then again I have shot millions of rounds of XM855PD and only ever had ONE bent round that failed to chamber... I have bought a ton of the stuff and still haven't broken into my 09 headstamp stuff. I am still buying it and will continue to do so (No I do not get a discount, we are supposed to have an employee ammo sale but I have YET to get anything that I ordered!) I buy from a distributor as a dealer, which I am as well. Don't know what Failures you have encountered but I won't say that it is without peer... Though I have tested a lot of ammunition myself not for LC, and I have found the XM loadings to be FAR more consistent in velocity shot to shot than any other ammunition tested... To include Q3131A, Olin MFR M855, Federal Commercial loading (Bulk pack from Walmart) Wolf, PPU, TCW, Centurion, etc. All has been within Military specification. IMI I found to be the hottest ammunition tested... generally a couple hundred feet per second faster than the US mfr... I have not recently done any accuracy testing. But Saturday I sighted in a handful of rifles and the LC XM-193 03 was the most accurate that I had on hand, it grouped tighter than the other loadings... (HSM 62 grain FMJBT loading) But that said the commercial product doesn't stand the same QC as the Military ammuntion, Military ammo can be rejected for ANY reason whatsoever... Not accurate enough, too many failures, too shiney, not shiney enough case annealing, sealants, light headstamp, heavy headstamp, etc etc... the list is endless... really... Generally speaking any product that is found to have too many "FAILURES" to fire is destroyed, Any defects found to be dangerous, destroyed. Keep in mind that the XM product is sold as a training ammunition not front line tactical ammunition. I would still be far more likely to carry this into harm's way than just about anything else in it's price range. So far I have 2600 rounds of 09 headstamp on hand. When I start shooting it I will keep an eye out for failures. All I can tell is that the ammunition being manufactured in that building as commercial is being packaged and manufactured AS COMMERCIAL I don't make policy. Most gunshops should have it on the shelf, 2 of my distributors have it in stock currently. |
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Due to some info in these posts, I aquired some XM193 and shot it, it shot great. I'm believer. Our military quality guy pointed out to me that it is also NOT SAMMI spec ammo...they do not follow SAMMI spec for it. I forgot to ask if that was true of the XM193AF or all XM193.
Know of any SCAR 556 ammo in private hands? I do....headstamp says FC 09, no NATO cross. 
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Due to some info in these posts, I aquired some XM193 and shot it, it shot great. I'm believer. Our military quality guy pointed out to me that it is also NOT SAMMI spec ammo...they do not follow SAMMI spec for it. I forgot to ask if that was true of the XM193AF or all XM193. Know of any SCAR 556 ammo in private hands? I do....headstamp says FC 09, no NATO cross. http://i48.tinypic.com/23kx8ar.jpg It is ALL NATO Spec, not SAAMI... They do load the AE223 and FC 223 on the same machines but it is SAAMI Spec. |
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Anyone remember the blended metal ammunition LeMas were trying to sell and showing vids of it blowing up potroasts? It's in this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbu4sBfKVRo It looks like the new ammunition is the same thing powder metal pressed into a copper jacket, only its a normal weight bullet no plastic base in the jacket. They are making it for use in the SCAR heavy and light. Where are all the arfcommers that said bullshit now? |
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I went on a tour of ChickenDaddy's plant last year (including some range time with all kinds of different rounds and some ballistic gellatin). I was amazed to see how the process works. I was even more amazed at how old much of the manufacturing equipment is. The tour was led by a pretty cool German fella with an interesting background (that isn't you by chance, is it Chicken?)
And for the record, the ammo shortage was not their problem or fault. I almost cried seeing pallet after pallet of small arms ammo being readied for shipment. For a moment, I found my happy place... |
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Anyone remember the blended metal ammunition LeMas were trying to sell and showing vids of it blowing up potroasts? It's in this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbu4sBfKVRo It looks like the new ammunition is the same thing powder metal pressed into a copper jacket, only its a normal weight bullet no plastic base in the jacket. They are making it for use in the SCAR heavy and light. Where are all the arfcommers that said bullshit now? Actually , from just a quick research on the bullet, from what little I was reading. All the ammunition is basically normal rounds, just charged HOT for hypervelocity. A test was made where they took commercially available bullets and increased the velocity a "HOT round" and the results were almost exactly the same. Granted it looks inpressive but appears to be nothing more than a hot load. |
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I went on a tour of ChickenDaddy's plant last year (including some range time with all kinds of different rounds and some ballistic gellatin). I was amazed to see how the process works. I was even more amazed at how old much of the manufacturing equipment is. The tour was led by a pretty cool German fella with an interesting background (that isn't you by chance, is it Chicken?) And for the record, the ammo shortage was not their problem or fault. I almost cried seeing pallet after pallet of small arms ammo being readied for shipment. For a moment, I found my happy place... That was probably yohan boden, ex german SF now working the LE side at Federal. Not me. He can really shoot. In fact, he single handedly whooped the Plymouth, MN, police department––twice. (training with the force on force munitions). |
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I will prolly get flamed for low post count but I work at Speer in ATK's Lewiston plant as a centerfire metal parts setup. I setup and run machines that make 380, 9 40 and 45 in speer, cci, blazer brass, and federal. We do have a company store and I am barely allowed to buy what I shoot in a week every thursday. Lewiston plants (speer, cci, southport) are running 24/7. We are expanding RAPIDLY. Adding many new machines here in a couple months and have lots of extra people ready so they are all still properly manned. Shoot any questions...I've only been there since June but my father has been there since 1978. What can you tell me about this ammo? Speer bulk packaged 124 grain Gold Dots for practice only. 9mm 124gr Gold Dot HP Speer CCI 250 round
$84.99 9mm 124gr Gold Dot HP Speer CCI 250 round Gold Dot is the top of the line CCI defense / Law enforcement ammo. This is 250 rounds bulk practice ammo. This is a smokin deal. That works out to $6.80 per 20 rounds It is a limited supply, so it will not last. Wow I didn't know there was any of this stuff still around. About 5 years ago Speer had a problem with some of their golddot ammo, something about the primers not being waterproof? They could not sell it as LE ammo for liability reasons so they "Reclassified" it as range ammo only and sold it CHEAP! I have gone thru about 2000 9mm and 1500 .40 and never had one failure. The stuff is accurate too. I think you could use it as self defense ammo if you really want. Here's the part that wil make you cry. They were selling the 9mm 124 golddot +P for about $8 per box of 50 when they first reclassified it. It was still in the 50 round boxes, they started bulk packing them soon after. I got most of mine from ammoman.com probably 5 years ago. Ha, I have several boxes of this stuff myself! |
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I can't even wrap my mind around this sentence..I bet that would be a dream job for a shit ton of people. 
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No free samples...except the occasional hat or ID card neck strap or shirt from marketing. XM193 is really military rejects, packaged many different ways. It comes from Lake City in 35 gallon steel cannisters, packed loose, by semi. LC has already rejected it for military, and we go through and QC it again and put it into...whatever packaging it gets that day. We also put it on clips in 30 round boxes by the case. It gets dumped and re-dumped several times in 30.000 round lots and trucked around the floor and dropped into and out of steel hoppers, thus explaining some of the dings. Depending on whether you get a "gun guy" working the machines that day, depends on the quality of the product. I'm sorry to say that most days, you are getting non-gun guys and girls working these lines. Dude, I'm sure it would suck after a while. It's like the worlds biggest cocktease, all that ammo, and no way to get any for yourself.... 
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OK, another question for you since you're the only ammo guy willing to speak. What kind of training do you have to work there? Do you just need a high school education or are they looking for someone with more education, mechanical experience, etc? High school ed and pass an entrance exam––which has math, english, spatial relationships, psychology and mechanical aptitude portions. Pass a BATFE check. Mechanical aptitude is KEY for production,;management positions they like to see production XP and a degree or many years XP. We have several ex-UPS managers in management right now, which i think is telling about the direction Federal (under ATK) is headed. Federal does a lot less hiring from the floor for supervision than in the past. We have a lot of ex-concrete /constructionworkers and twenty something year olds (all who know everything, just like I did when i was in that age category). I think they look positively upon military XP. However, when i interviewed, they did not think my hand loading XP applied much to the factory work, and I basically told then they were wrong. And i was right––it really does apply. Do they provide most of the training there onsite? Supposed to, but that's not reality. Hopefully you get a good trainer or pick things up. production workers are supposed to be able to keep their machines going and adjusted to a point––spend too much time on something and you are required to call maintenence. Maintenance guys the only ones that know the tricks to keep the machines going? Is there any smoking allowed anywhere at the production facility? Yes, smoking is allowed right outside several plant and production entrances, in little smoke shacks. They even have electric lighters, since you are not allowed to have lighters on your person. Sounds exactly like the same old factory I worked at 
Which is very funny, because I always remember thinking "I bet this job would be a lot cooler if I worked at an ammo plant or something" Guess not. 
You guys keep the shooting world alive, so keep it up, and keep the product moving! 
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I went on a tour of ChickenDaddy's plant last year (including some range time with all kinds of different rounds and some ballistic gellatin). I was amazed to see how the process works. I was even more amazed at how old much of the manufacturing equipment is. The tour was led by a pretty cool German fella with an interesting background (that isn't you by chance, is it Chicken?) And for the record, the ammo shortage was not their problem or fault. I almost cried seeing pallet after pallet of small arms ammo being readied for shipment. For a moment, I found my happy place... That was probably yohan boden, ex german SF now working the LE side at Federal. Not me. He can really shoot. In fact, he single handedly whooped the Plymouth, MN, police department––twice. (training with the force on force munitions). It was. I didn't want to out him if he happened to be you. The guy definitely knows his stuff. |
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I work at Lake City and I can tell you that XM-193 is a commercial product manufactured at LC, the Bunter used to form the case head and stamp is not the same as used for the .MIL ball round, the headstamp used for M193, M855, M856, M200, M195, and the Proofing load, is not the same as the stamp on the XM product. It comes off the line and is commercially boxed right here at Lake City, No I can't provide pics either... No cameras allowed on post the XM855 product is different but it is sorted 3 times in our facility and shipped out in 1000 round boxes. Since 2001 when ATK took over operations at LCAAP there have been 10 BILLION rounds manufactured here that works out to roughly 126840 per hour, presuming that the plant ran 24 hours a day 7 days a week, and that includes ONLY rounds delivered to the US ARMY. 5.56 Ball, Trace, Blank, Grenade Blank (I was unaware of this one until I started working here) and Proof loading. The US MILITARY is currently buying as much of this as can be produced, Of course they CAN reject ammunition for almost ANY reason. 7.62 Ball, Trace, Dim Trace, Long Range, Blank and Proof. 50 Cal ALL rounds (Some of this is sold as seconds XM33 AE branded not commercial packed at LCAAP) 20mm All rounds. Lake City is sitting on 4400 acres of land, and incorporates over 100 buildings You can find the plant on Google Earth One of the Production buildings Covers easily the ground usually covered by a LARGE shopping mall, Yet there are only 1500 or so people employed here at the present time. Currently 5.56 is produced split between two buildings and another produces 7.62, 50 and 20mm, Primers are produced in yet another building. the NATO Ballistics testing lab is located on site... There is a warehouse for finished product on site as well. The pic below shows the XM-193 Commercial product on the Left, this headstamp is COMMERCIAL MFR only, it is ONLY found on COMMERCIAL M-200 blanks, and COMMERCIAL XM-193 product. The Headstamp on the RIGHT is the LC Nato headstamp ONLY found on product delivered to the Military, that is an M193 from 2003, I bought it as a FEDERAL branded product. Rumors abound but this is the No BS honest truth. The Same line that produces the XM product also produces rounds headstamped AE 223 and FC 223 REM. Only FMJ bullets are loaded here... LC makes the Bullet, the Brass, the Primer, all on site the only thing that is NOT Made here is the propellent. The Brass and Copper Cups used for the bullet jacket and the Case ALL come from Olin...The Military no longer buys M-193, Only the 62 grain loading. http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/AFSOC/LCHeadstamps.jpg Awesome thread!!! This is interesting about the XM193 stuff. I've been wondering about it. I bought a batch back in '04 that had LC02 headstamp. Looks like the pic on the right. It was packaged in the Federal Brown box 20rd boxes. Just bought some new brown box stuff and it has the headstamp on the left. Bottom line question: is it still the same stuff? I've wondered as it doesn't have the NATO cross stamped on it. This new headstamp pattern (commercial) is much more like the old headstamp from the 60's and 70's. Is the .mil version M193 any different than the "commercial" XM193 loading? Thanks for your input. It is really helpful. |
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Due to some info in these posts, I aquired some XM193 and shot it, it shot great. I'm believer. Our military quality guy pointed out to me that it is also NOT SAMMI spec ammo...they do not follow SAMMI spec for it. I forgot to ask if that was true of the XM193AF or all XM193. http://i48.tinypic.com/23kx8ar.jpg So is it NATO pressure or somewhere inbetween? I don't have a chrono to create the data myself... |
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I tried reading through everything, not sure if this was asked already.
Do you as well see an overwhelming majority xm193 as opposed to xm855? You would think that it would be exactly the opposite, assuming the plant runs alot more 855 ammo.Any idea why there is so few 855 seconds and so much 193? |
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I tried reading through everything, not sure if this was asked already. Do you as well see an overwhelming majority xm193 as opposed to xm855? You would think that it would be exactly the opposite, assuming the plant runs alot more 855 ammo.Any idea why there is so few 855 seconds and so much 193? From what I've gathered from reading AFSOC's posts, XM193 is now "commercial" ammo, and not mil surplus. They load it to NATO 5.56 specs? specifically for the commercial market. Please correct me here if I'm wrong, but that's the impression I've gotten reading this thread. |
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What's the deal with thin webs in FC headstamped 223 brass? Makes for soft primer pockets when get loose after 1 or 2 firings and thus has a bad rep in the reloading circles. Also what's the deal with LC headstamped brass in those red American Eagle boxes of .223? It should be FC headstamps right? Curious about this myself. |
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I forgot to ask if our XM193 is NATO spec or closer to commercial––but since the guy pointed out that there is a difference, I can only assume, like y'all, that it is closer to NATO. I'll ask again next time I see him. What have the shooters with chronographs reported on this?
We are 4 million cases behind on XM193 right now. XM855 doesn't get sold to the private sector in such quantities, or it's all being packed somewhere besides Federal, because we run it much less frequently than XM193. Some new interesting stuff: AE45 in the 250 round "bag in a box" actually contains a minimum of 252 rounds. XM193BK (1000 rd bag in a box) actually contains up to 1020 rounds (and sometimes just a few more, depending on how fast those guys have to move that day to meet goal). Looks like the average round count most times is 2015. Extra rounds are a safety margin due to "customer complaints"...just like counting your money at the bank, it's good to double check. 
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I know nothing about thin webs, so can't comment.
I DO know that I have heard people talking about how much better they like Blazer Brass 45ACP over Federal 45ACP brass––but it's the EXACT same thing with a different headstamp, comes off the same line on the same day, made the same way. We get tons of brass in from LC, we load it and QC it, pack it and ship it out. It even gets boxed up as AE (mostly due to tolerances being less strict). I just got some of the 62 grain stuff, and can't wait to shoot it. Sometimes Lewiston makes brass for us, and we make cartridges for lewiston, as well. If it says "speer" on the headstamp, but has a single dot in between the words, it was entirely made at Federal. Lewiston's brass that we load and pack and ship out to you appears slightly dished from the center of the primer to the outside edge of the rim, wheras Federal brass appears flat across the top. Look at an entire tray of 50 to get the effect. You all know that LC brass has the three dimples on the headstamp. Military 45CAP ball ammo standards are considerably worse than even AE standards (except for the primer and case mouth sealant); however, there is a blanket reject clause written into the military contract, and their inspectors typically grade it on par with AE...they are in the process of re-writing the military standards, which has been needed for decdes, IMHO. I have no details on this, other than we anticipate it to be much higher. |
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Anyone remember the blended metal ammunition LeMas were trying to sell and showing vids of it blowing up potroasts? It's in this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbu4sBfKVRo It looks like the new ammunition is the same thing powder metal pressed into a copper jacket, only its a normal weight bullet no plastic base in the jacket. They are making it for use in the SCAR heavy and light. Where are all the arfcommers that said bullshit now? Actually , from just a quick research on the bullet, from what little I was reading. All the ammunition is basically normal rounds, just charged HOT for hypervelocity. A test was made where they took commercially available bullets and increased the velocity a "HOT round" and the results were almost exactly the same. Granted it looks inpressive but appears to be nothing more than a hot load. holy shit what 2 dumbass post, both of you 
one is comparing differ different production methods as the same, and the other has hyper-velocity |
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Anyone remember the blended metal ammunition LeMas were trying to sell and showing vids of it blowing up potroasts? It's in this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbu4sBfKVRo It looks like the new ammunition is the same thing powder metal pressed into a copper jacket, only its a normal weight bullet no plastic base in the jacket. They are making it for use in the SCAR heavy and light. Where are all the arfcommers that said bullshit now? Actually , from just a quick research on the bullet, from what little I was reading. All the ammunition is basically normal rounds, just charged HOT for hypervelocity. A test was made where they took commercially available bullets and increased the velocity a "HOT round" and the results were almost exactly the same. Granted it looks inpressive but appears to be nothing more than a hot load. holy shit what 2 dumbass post, both of you
one is comparing differ different production methods as the same, and the other has hyper-velocity I'm stunned to see anyone who doesn't know LeMASS was just a scamming fly by night company. |
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I know nothing about thin webs, so can't comment. I DO know that I have heard people talking about how much better they like Blazer Brass 45ACP over Federal 45ACP brass––but it's the EXACT same thing with a different headstamp, comes off the same line on the same day, made the same way. We get tons of brass in from LC, we load it and QC it, pack it and ship it out. It even gets boxed up as AE (mostly due to tolerances being less strict). I just got some of the 62 grain stuff, and can't wait to shoot it. Sometimes Lewiston makes brass for us, and we make cartridges for lewiston, as well. If it says "speer" on the headstamp, but has a single dot in between the words, it was entirely made at Federal. Lewiston's brass that we load and pack and ship out to you appears slightly dished from the center of the primer to the outside edge of the rim, wheras Federal brass appears flat across the top. Look at an entire tray of 50 to get the effect. You all know that LC brass has the three dimples on the headstamp. Military 45CAP ball ammo standards are considerably worse than even AE standards (except for the primer and case mouth sealant); however, there is a blanket reject clause written into the military contract, and their inspectors typically grade it on par with AE...they are in the process of re-writing the military standards, which has been needed for decdes, IMHO. I have no details on this, other than we anticipate it to be much higher. I bought a few boxes of Federal AE .45 ACP 230gr FMJ (my favorite "range/plinking" .45 ammo, not underpowered like some of the stuff out there) before that was a bit different than the rest. The bullet was crimped at the base (like my .45 HST rounds) and the primer was sealed with red sealant. If the military rejects .45 ball ammo does it get sent out as American Eagle? |
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What is this stuff?
Can any of you ATK employees shed some light on how these "rejects" came into being? 
Also, anybody shoot enough XM855 to form any opinions about it? Lake City 5.56 XM855F3 62 grain 300rd Bulk Pack http://palmettostatearmory.com/725.php |
| Yup, that was military ball. The bullet crimp at the base is called, in technical jargon, a "knurl". I was not aware that the military rejected it. Was there a date on the headstamp? At least, this run we did in 2010 so far I thought had been accepted, because we graded it very high. |
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Quoted:
Yup, that was military ball. The bullet crimp at the base is called, in technical jargon, a "knurl". I was not aware that the military rejected it. Was there a date on the headstamp? At least, this run we did in 2010 so far I thought had been accepted, because we graded it very high. It seemed interesting to me, so I after I shot it all I saved one of the pieces of brass (this was before I reloaded and saved ALL brass) and I believe it was '07 headstamped, I bought it in late '07/early '08. I can check for sure when I get home. |
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Quoted:
What is this stuff? Can any of you ATK employees shed some light on how these "rejects" came into being?
Also, anybody shoot enough XM855 to form any opinions about it? Lake City 5.56 XM855F3 62 grain 300rd Bulk Pack http://palmettostatearmory.com/725.php We do a smaller bulk pack of this, somewhat infrequently, but I am rarely involved. |