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Link Posted: 11/13/2014 8:46:42 PM EDT
[#1]
FS2000 is the only bullpup I would buy. It has bottom eject and ambi controls. I've never been in combat but I suspect you would have to switch shoulders depending on cover, and brass in da face is a bad distraction. I love the AUG but would pick an AR over it for that reason alone.
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 8:47:35 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:

Gloating is not of need, comrade.
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I tell you listen.

Great comrades of Norinco making best bullpup.   Quality most excellently made and rifle cheap of costing 1000 Canadian rubles.  This is about 887 American fleabacks.  Cannnot go wrong and for you not believing, read this review.  Read for you and DBAS.

http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/Blog/September-2013/Eyeing-Up-The-Norinco-Type-97.aspx

Gloating is not of need, comrade.



Forgetting for me to say that Norinco Type 97 having chrome lined 5.56mm barrel of forged hammering.  
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 8:56:20 PM EDT
[#3]

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Quoted:


I tell you listen.



Great comrades of Norinco making best bullpup.   Quality most excellently made and rifle cheap of costing 1000 Canadian rubles.  This is about 887 American fleabacks.  Cannnot go wrong and for you not believing, read this review.  Read for you and DBAS.



http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/Blog/September-2013/Eyeing-Up-The-Norinco-Type-97.aspx
View Quote




 
If I buy property in Canuckistan I will be ordering on of those ChCim Bullpups.
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 9:07:48 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:



So now you are insulting me?  For your information I have all my toofeses! If you could read, the manual of arms for the Army and other services pertains to drill and ceremony. Not the actual operation of the weapon system. Like I said before people who use this term  have not a clue as to what they are talking about. I would bet money on it!
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Whatever it is its gayer than two boys fucking! Never heard that term my entire time in the Army. I wonder if its another thing the 300lb HSLD operators use to make themselves sound important! Also where can I pick up one of these manuals? I know Baron von Steuben wrote one a while ago. Amazon maybe?


I found this under one of my flab folds for you and your tooth nubs.
http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/vn/m16-manual.html



So now you are insulting me?  For your information I have all my toofeses! If you could read, the manual of arms for the Army and other services pertains to drill and ceremony. Not the actual operation of the weapon system. Like I said before people who use this term  have not a clue as to what they are talking about. I would bet money on it!



How much money?
It's been in common use in the current meaning for 20 years among many professionals.

Link Posted: 11/13/2014 9:11:08 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
The ergonomics suck.

The triggers suck.

The balance sucks.

The mag changes suck.

The price sucks.

They point like ass.
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Heh, lol.
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 9:22:58 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:


I fixed it!

Taurus Judge > HD Shotgun > AK > Bullpup > AR
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AK > Bullpups > AR


  That is the most disgusting thing I have ever read on this website.


I think he could make it worse...

HD Shotgun > AK > Bullpup > AR


I fixed it!

Taurus Judge > HD Shotgun > AK > Bullpup > AR


.410 AK bullpup shotgun.
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 9:27:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Over the years, I've owned AUG's, an FS2000, and now a Tavor.  Yes, the manual of arms is different, yes they are more difficult to shoot from the weak shoulder, and yes, I usually shoot my AR's much more than the bullpups.  Having said that, my Tavor is growing on me.  My only wish would be for a shorter LOP.  The manticore arms butt pad helps some, but for me, it's not really enough.

Link Posted: 11/13/2014 9:32:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Because GD said so.
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 9:48:29 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
Because GD said so.
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This.

And because their fucking ugly.
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 9:55:03 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
Price
Parts availability (relative to an AR platform)
Manual of Arms
Different ergonomics
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Yup
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 9:58:56 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:



How much money?
It's been in common use in the current meaning for 20 years among many professionals.

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Whatever it is its gayer than two boys fucking! Never heard that term my entire time in the Army. I wonder if its another thing the 300lb HSLD operators use to make themselves sound important! Also where can I pick up one of these manuals? I know Baron von Steuben wrote one a while ago. Amazon maybe?


I found this under one of my flab folds for you and your tooth nubs.
http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/vn/m16-manual.html



So now you are insulting me?  For your information I have all my toofeses! If you could read, the manual of arms for the Army and other services pertains to drill and ceremony. Not the actual operation of the weapon system. Like I said before people who use this term  have not a clue as to what they are talking about. I would bet money on it!



How much money?
It's been in common use in the current meaning for 20 years among many professionals.



The only people I have ever seen use it are the YouTube operators showing off their sweet rigs!
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 10:03:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Eventually, most of the problems with bullpups will be worked out. The standard rifle has been refined for 300+ years, but designers have only been working on bullpups since about the 1930's and the work has always been very limited in scope. The AR pattern has been continuously improved since the late 1950's, eventually with the support of both the best-funded military and the best-funded private sector gun market the world has ever known. It will take a long time for any gun design to catch up with the AR for versatility, reliability, etc.

That being said...



Fire-by-wire analog electronic trigger, fully adjustable weight and travel with the rifle assembled. This one is set to 0.1mm travel (1/254th of an inch) and 1/3rd oz. pull weight (not three oz, one third of one oz). That is better than any standard rifle trigger you will find.

This rifle also has both short LOP, adjustable LOP, and short overall length. With a 16.5" barrel it is 26.6" OAL with the stock fully extended, and 23" OAL with the stock collapsed.


With a 20" barrel, it is shorter than a Rock River PDR 16" folded.


It is also a takedown.

Now, granted, this is a lowly 22LR, but the basic design can be adapted to 556 using a carrier design similar to Tavor, SCAR, or the PDR. This rifle has extra stuff placed behind the action just so I can hit 26" with a 16" barrel, so there is plenty of room for the longer cartridge.

I might make one in 556 that uses AR bolts, barrels, extractors, hammers, springs, etc. Haven't decided on the action layout, piston vs DI, etc. Not enough spare time right now though.
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 10:08:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Why are bullpups not more popular?
View Quote


Demographics lead to a small market.

Link Posted: 11/13/2014 10:08:42 PM EDT
[#14]
I want one.
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 10:09:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


.410 AK bullpup shotgun.
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Quoted:
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Quoted:
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AK > Bullpups > AR


  That is the most disgusting thing I have ever read on this website.


I think he could make it worse...

HD Shotgun > AK > Bullpup > AR


I fixed it!

Taurus Judge > HD Shotgun > AK > Bullpup > AR


.410 AK bullpup shotgun.

With birdshot
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 10:10:22 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Why are bullpups not more popular?


Demographics lead to a small market.



Im a Tavor fan and I laughed.
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 10:36:46 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:

AR15 was first made in the early 1960. First bullpup design was created in 1901. It was a market failure back then as it is now. A niche  market at best.
 
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Show me an AR that is branded (store bought) that has CHF barrel, piston driven, and all the upgraded hardware and parts quality as the Tavor for $700-900.  You can't.


You can buy PSA (largely FNH) and Colt M4s for that price. They have everything a basic Tavor does. Piston doesn't mean anything. Do you complain about the lack of a piston in your pistols? They even tend to come with the Magpul forearm, which works nicely for mounting flash lights.

You don't need to compare it to a top of the shelf precision AR. That being said, ARs are very cheap because they are old designs with a lot of maker competing to lower the price. You won't see this happen with new items, gun or not.
AUGs are an older design... been around since the 1970s.  The issue with the AUG is market saturation. ARs are cheap because everyone makes them. If everyone made an AUG clone they'd be cheap too.  

AR15 was first made in the early 1960. First bullpup design was created in 1901. It was a market failure back then as it is now. A niche  market at best.
 


You can't call it a niche because so many countries are using them. the AUG is also more pricey because they have to jump through hoops to make it USA legal. They can't just export them from the standard production line. Don't the American AUGs use FNH barrels, Vltor parts, ect.? It costs because companies have to re-tool for parts just to bring them into the country. And the only market for these new parts are American civies, which is small. Everyone else would rather just buy an AUG from the factory off of the older machinery (keeps costs down). Same issue for lots of other weapons.

It is why CZ pretty much said they were not going to bring their new SMG in (although maybe they changed their stance). Add in the fact they must make a 16" barrel in place of a 7.7" and the price will certainly go up seeing as no one else in the world would be buying that particular variant.
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 11:28:36 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:


The only people I have ever seen use it are the YouTube operators showing off their sweet rigs!
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



Whatever it is its gayer than two boys fucking! Never heard that term my entire time in the Army. I wonder if its another thing the 300lb HSLD operators use to make themselves sound important! Also where can I pick up one of these manuals? I know Baron von Steuben wrote one a while ago. Amazon maybe?


I found this under one of my flab folds for you and your tooth nubs.
http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/vn/m16-manual.html



So now you are insulting me?  For your information I have all my toofeses! If you could read, the manual of arms for the Army and other services pertains to drill and ceremony. Not the actual operation of the weapon system. Like I said before people who use this term  have not a clue as to what they are talking about. I would bet money on it!



How much money?
It's been in common use in the current meaning for 20 years among many professionals.



The only people I have ever seen use it are the YouTube operators showing off their sweet rigs!


Cool. So how much?
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 11:44:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Not sure. If someone is willing to send me several different models to try out and keep I'll gladly give my opinion then.
Link Posted: 11/14/2014 12:50:14 AM EDT
[#20]

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Quoted:


The ergonomics suck.



talking about an AUG...super comfortable grip, the most ergonomic vertical fore-grip i've ever held (and in use decades before anyone thought of using a VFG on an AR), ambi safety, standard optic, again decades before they became common on ARs



The triggers suck.



seems to vary.  my AUGA1 has always had a crisp break



The balance sucks.



most bullpups have the center of gravity at or near the pistol grip.  on the AUG the CoG is perfectly centered and can easily be fired single handed



The mag changes suck.



training issue.  people that have only ever/mainly used bullpups dont seem to have too much of a problem



The price sucks.



compared to AR's yes



They point like ass.



again, not even close.  one of the first things people say when using an AUG is how quickly you can get on target.  this is because the center of gravity is much closer to the shooter than with an AR.  the reason the HSLD crowd chokes up on the length of pull on an AR is to pull the CoG closer to make maneuvering faster.  on an AUG its already much closer

View Quote




 
Link Posted: 11/14/2014 1:03:20 AM EDT
[#21]
I like the new K&M rifle here. If they brought it under $1400 or so yet another shotgun will be kicked out of the safe.

Link Posted: 11/14/2014 1:17:00 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:



And then ammo costs a fuck-ton more, and availability and selection of ammo isn't as wide.
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If you want improved ballistics out of an SBR, we've already solved that for you...

300blk, 6.8 SPC, etc etc

Maybe that argument held some water 20 years ago when M193 was the "thing", but with modern calibers you don't have to deal with a trade-off anymore.  

An up-caliber SBR is having your cake AND eating it too

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile



And then ammo costs a fuck-ton more, and availability and selection of ammo isn't as wide.


SOMEbody needs to start reloading....


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/14/2014 1:17:18 AM EDT
[#23]
The AUG is expensive, and some are not AUG. and the AUG is the shit and the rest are not.
Link Posted: 11/14/2014 1:30:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Because everyone is buying AR pistols.  I don't understand either attraction.
Link Posted: 11/14/2014 1:48:37 AM EDT
[#25]
I hope to own this one day

Link Posted: 11/14/2014 2:10:29 AM EDT
[#26]
I enjoy my AUG A3, but there are some realities about owning it that cannot be ignored.  There isn't much you can customize on the rifle.  If and when something breaks, it's going to be expensive.  New bolt?  $230.  Extractor and kit?  $85.  Firing pin?  $65.  Prices are from pjs-steyraug and pretty much the going rate.  Basic emergency parts kit?  $149 from Steyr.  And the rifle is going to be down waiting on the parts because I've yet to see them in a store.  A newer shooter that's been saving some coin for a rifle can afford a good AR and optic for just the cost of the bare AUG A3, find accessories everywhere he or she looks, and will be able to keep the rifle running with very common and fairly inexpensive parts.  That's a significant barrier to entry to bullpups for a lot of people.
Link Posted: 11/14/2014 8:23:13 AM EDT
[#27]

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Quoted:
SOMEbody needs to start reloading....





Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

If you want improved ballistics out of an SBR, we've already solved that for you...



300blk, 6.8 SPC, etc etc



Maybe that argument held some water 20 years ago when M193 was the "thing", but with modern calibers you don't have to deal with a trade-off anymore.  



An up-caliber SBR is having your cake AND eating it too



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile






And then ammo costs a fuck-ton more, and availability and selection of ammo isn't as wide.




SOMEbody needs to start reloading....





Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile




 
Sure, buy me the brass, powder, and rounds when that shit is sold out everywhere.




Everyone's answer is reload. Well, not all of us do.
Link Posted: 11/14/2014 8:34:06 AM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:
I like the new K&M rifle here. If they brought it under $1400 or so yet another shotgun will be kicked out of the safe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyjb7taxaK8
View Quote


I wonder what would happen if it was dropped into some deep mud, or fired alot in dry dirt? The operating system is completely exposed.
Link Posted: 11/14/2014 9:38:19 AM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:
FS2000 is the only bullpup I would buy. It has bottom eject and ambi controls. I've never been in combat but I suspect you would have to switch shoulders depending on cover, and brass in da face is a bad distraction. I love the AUG but would pick an AR over it for that reason alone.
View Quote

PS90 is bottom eject. FS2000 is forward eject.
As far as spare trigger packs and such, looks like these guys have them and many more FS2000 parts.
Midwest Gunworks
Link Posted: 11/14/2014 9:41:00 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I tell you listen.

Great comrades of Norinco making best bullpup.   Quality most excellently made and rifle cheap of costing 1000 Canadian rubles.  This is about 887 American fleabacks.  Cannnot go wrong and for you not believing, read this review.  Read for you and DBAS.

http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/Blog/September-2013/Eyeing-Up-The-Norinco-Type-97.aspx
View Quote


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