Agreed, but laws should exist to protect people from the harm of others, or enforce contracts. If consenting adults want to have butt sex or sell alcohol on Sunday, that's not a reason for a law.


Right and wrong is easier to figure out, from the state's perspective when we filter everything through: Did this action create an innocent victim? Not "is this action icky?" or "Does the majority just not like this?".

They are terrified of individual responsibility. They want government to do all the work for them.



Ironic that one of their greatest heroes, JFK said to not ask what our country can do for us, but what we can do for our country. They want to be handed everything.



 


They're scared of taking their own destiny into their hands, they need .gov to plan it all out for them.


 

Found what? Someone who sees infantile descriptions of opposing viewpoints as asinine and myopic?

A better question is why is the left is ok with Muslims doing this, but hates Christians doing this?

 
The trouble with that standard is when you have people claiming that their dislike for something actually victimizes them. (For example, a person was victimized because they saw a rebel flag.)

What we need is to establish that having feelings hurt or being offended cannot ever be basis for a civil lawsuit, or a crime.

Which makes up what percentage of the left? Cherry picking your anecdotal evidence must be great to confirm biases, right?

Yep.

In my experience, you have three types of Leftist:


1) The Idealists. These idiots honestly believe leftist principles will bring about Utopia.

2) Weaklings. These people are just looking for the government to be their mommy and daddy, because adulthood is hard and stuff.

3) The Power Hungry. These people want all power in the hands of government, and they mean to be the government.


The first two groups are the "Useful Idiots", and once the Revolution is over, the third group will have them rounded up and shot.

Liberty means no control of the proletariat.......the masses.

Some pigs are more equal than others you know.

Enemies around every corner.

The onus is not upon me to provide you with the data I asked you for.

The dominant Liberal emotion is fear.


They are arrant cowards.




My entire life they have been trying their hardest to surrender: first to the Soviets, then to Muslims.






 

Because they hate God.  Also, why are there so many spaces issues with your post?  I fixed them in this quote, but dam

Liberty is messy.  All those people with the wrong views, out there expressing them, or worse, ACTING on them.  

 

Moreover, liberty is recognition of individual sovereignty.  That's all well and good when you're talking about doing whatever you want, but it's completely unacceptable when it comes to taking individual responsibility for your actions or their consequences.

So all you have is cherry picked anecdotal evidence. I thought us conservatives were supposed to be the logical ones.

If they back bigger government, then they are not conservatives, by definition.

 
Im an Atheist also. But lets be honest here..


Our rights are granted by the gov. Its pretty self evident on how easy it is for them to be taken away.


I know what is said in the constitution. I know what the words meant. But so many on both "sides" are willing to use force on their behalf to strip your rights at least, life at most, at anytime for so-called victimless crimes. Thats reality.


Were way past the pivot point on that issue.


In 2016 the gov is God. Our lives are in their hands, and at their mercy. The IRS can ruin anybody, at any time, for any reason, through law enforcement. You can be disarmed and thrown in a cage if they want. Gov is given the benefit of the doubt. Not you. Innocent until aproven guilty has shown to be a lie in so many cases its impossible to keep track at this point.


But the shining light is the few who beleive less Gov is the only way to be truly free. Like self responsibility, less secure, freedom is scary, free. If it neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket free. What you put in your body is your business, and if it kills you slowly good for you, fuck me free. But those ideas are becoming fringe and extinct anyways. We have an openly admitted democratic socialist running for president now. And he has a ton of supporters and is considered a mainstream viable candidate. Think about that for a second before you say God is above Gov.



Sorry to be Debbie Downer.

Because the only way to Utopia is for everybody to agree and somebody else to be responsible.

Personally, I'd say that the number of genuinely dangerous and evil liberals is pretty close to 35%.

These are the ones who infest academia, both as professors and students. Also the professional victim class.

The rest are looking for a handout of some kind or another.

That said, disagree or even talk of removal of their personal public largess and you'd have closer to 95% who would kill you as soon as hear you.

As I've said B4, look at the "men" at liberal rallies. Fucking LOOK at them. New Liberalism is a mental disorder. They're freaks.

Meh.

It's the same thing liberals say about conservatives.

It's really not.

Go lurk DU for a couple hours.

They pretty regularly talk about putting people who don't agree with them in camps.

You don't see that here.

Sure, here people will talk about shooting someone who is perpetrating violence or intimidation with the promise of violence, but murder or incarceration of those who simply disagree is unheard of.

There it's the norm. I've been playing on DU for years now and gone to their events. Minneapolis is full of the worst kind. They genuinely believe that the end justifies any means necessary. Oh,my hey don't want to be the one who pulls the trigger or flips the switch, but they *DO* want that trigger pulled and switch flipped.

I meant that liberals say conservatives hate liberty.

Why the hell would you lurk DU for a couple hours?  Are you trying to get eye cancer?

Because this is a war and we need to know our enemy.

Granted, they've got about the worst fucking forum format in history over there, but once you deal with that shit, you gain an insight on exactly how fucked up and scary they truly are.

They will gladly surrender liberty for free stuff.

Mainly because they are ignorant and soft; when you have lived a life of plenty talking about socialism makes it seem not so bad.

Unfortunately their idea of socialism is going to Starbucks and only being able to order a tall latte not the Gulag Archipelago type that will be reality.

It's all about controlling the masses.  And they want to be in charge,

Why do conservatives hate liberty?

And they all seem to think that any suffering will be had by the "little" people, not them.

They fail to realize that they are the little people too.

Because they are inferior.

Indeed; they are the enlightened class, they will be first in line at the guillotine, no waiting.

Because they are not really liberal, they are wannabe socialists or marxists. Most of them don't even understand the totality of the situation and are useful idiots who think they will be saved or above it all when their side wins an election.

The real danger is the real socialists and marxists running for office that get the useful idiots to vote for them.

 
I argued with a co-worker like that. Very intelligent guy by all accounts, but was a self prescribed socialist who was all for Bernie. After much back and forth we came to the realization that in our early days in the real world, I pulled my ass up by the boot straps, and he relied on gov assistance. Claimed he would have never made it otherwise. So he was basically OK with setting a ceiling on success for a safety net on failure. Whereas I will be happy to shoot for the moon knowing the fall is going to hurt... bad.

I think it's because they truly despise people who believe in themselves, and want to be left alone.



 

Well said.



 

I've come to the conclusion that most people hate liberty.

Sure, the left has hated liberty for ages, but look at us on the right.  We're about to nominate a man that is no friend of liberty.  From his abuse of eminent domain to his obvious admiration of Putin and the Chinese put down of Tienanmen Square, Trump proposes to be a Strong Man - not a defender of liberty.  Listen to his campaign rhetoric - how often do you hear him talking about liberty?  Almost never.  Instead he talks about leaning on other countries to make better deals.  Standing up to other countries. But very very rarely does he talk about liberty.  

Most people will pick a Strong Man leader without any regards to their liberty.  Given the choice between liberty and security the vast majority will pick security every time.

To be fair, I don't change my own oil anymore

Read The Law by Bastiat... it explains it fairly well

Interesting question.

I'd offer two answers for consideration......

1)  Because they don't understand it, and they are afraid of that which they do not understand.

It comes from having lived in with liberty for a long time.  In essence they do not appreciate what they have and how the over-all construct of the liberty in which they live empowers them to make the choices they do.

Because of these handicaps they seek to control the thing they do not understand by restricting it and trying to contain it.  The net result is that they reduce the very liberty they depend on for their own beliefs and the dysphoria continues to the point of contradiction.  

They then question how they got into the mess they created, blame others for it, and continue down the path of denial of responsibility by handing over the power to "fix" it to others, usually blessed with the same dysphoria.

2)  "feels" - I know it's an overused term and many dislike it.  However it expresses the second part of the problem very well.   People are different and respond to issues differently according to their level of understanding and belief systems.  I

"It can be boiled down to "emotional intelligence".

Most of us can fully empathise with the desire to have a welfare state and the potential benefits in an ideal world.  Free high-quality health care would be awesome, jobs for all, minimum wage - hell it would be awesome to not have to work at all and spend all your time enjoying the world in which we live without the restriction thrust upon us by modern life.

The reality is that such a utopian dream can never exist.

However, most of us also have an understanding of reality and a full recognition that survival is about a competitive race to be better than the guy in front of you.  This is how life has always been and always will be.  

The harder the left pushes for utopia the harder reality pushes back. This upsets the "feels" of the Left and they then need to vent.  

The only tangible target they have is to blame the people who do see the reality, accept it for what it is, and learn to work within that reality.

Thus they manufacture an adversarial construct and use it to vilify this perceived opposition.  They cannot understand how accepting reality and living within it is the only real way to be able effect change, so they sit out the outside trying to stop the unstoppable by repeatedly head-butting it and wonder why they end up with a huge headache.

It's easy to mock the stupidity of the left.  But it does not harm to recognise that what they want is actually just an ambition.  Most are decent people who will welcome a balanced and informative debate.

The only real way to counter it and help them is to educate them.  Some will listen, learn and adapt. Others will stand in opposition and scream for an eternity.

Help the ones you can by being patient and informative- educate them.

The ones who scream - just ignore them and let them carry on head butting reality.  They are an immensely useful demonstration of the futility of their actions for those who might be prepared to learn.

Its not just that liberals hate liberty.  Its that many people refuse to see that anyone is capable of hating liberty....even the front-runner for the Republican nomination.  

Are you talking about evangelists, homophobes, and anarcho-capitalists?



Those are faux conservatives, who wrap themselves in the costume of moral superiority.



 

How about the 30% ~ 40% of the Republican party that supports Trump?  He's not running on a platform of liberty, he proposes to be America's Strong Man.  

Long read, but worth it.



TL;DR - the failure to achieve societal nirvana leads to blaming those who deal with reality in a logical manner.



 

Freedom requires personal responsibility, individual restraint, and character. This is terrifying and exhausting to small minds, thus small minds prefer external imposition of order. Idiots like the idea that someone smarter and better than themselves is in charge, even when they know that person doesn't exist.