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Posted: 7/22/2016 8:59:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Both.
It's a weak point in the design that will likely never affect anything but very high volume shooters. I *think* the issue was fixed several years ago but I could be wrong. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:04:27 AM EDT
[#2]
Ever heard of the 'crack of dawn'? Private Snuffy broke that too.
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:06:44 AM EDT
[#3]
Maybe because some idiot though it was a good idea to put the safety in the slide itself?
Just a hunch, I really don't know, |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:07:57 AM EDT
[#4]
Little to no maintenance and a steady diet of the equvalent of +P.
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:08:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Most likely because it's shot too much with a worn spring.
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:08:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Shit tons of +P SMG ammo?
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:09:11 AM EDT
[#7]
That hasn't really been an issue for a long time.
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:10:43 AM EDT
[#8]
Are you considering suing Beretta?
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:11:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Don't see it much anymore but it still happens. A lot of the training (range) ammo now is frangible shit which I don't think is loaded as hot as normal stuff.
Still see it occasionally along with all kinds of other high volume breaks. That slide is a weak design point and a lot of the M-9's out there are beyond their service life constantly getting pumped full of new parts. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:11:57 AM EDT
[#10]
Lack of maintenance. A pistol will continue to function even if the recoil spring is worn out so it won't see the replacement that it needs.
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:14:04 AM EDT
[#11]
The very first qual with the m9 at one of my units was cancelled after a couple m9 slides gave out in 86. The only ammo they had was sub gun ammo and it was too hot. LOL. Had to wait for some std pressure ammo to arrive. Whoops.
These were brand spanking new weapons. I can't imagine a clunky rattletrap that is now 30 yrs old. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:14:15 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That hasn't really been an issue for a long time. This. IIRC, the problem was with the early 92 models primarily during the military trials. Beretta corrected it with the 92FS model. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:17:26 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That hasn't really been an issue for a long time. USMC armorer from 11-15 and never saw or heard of any slides breaking during that time period. About the only part that failed regularly was the locking block. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:17:51 AM EDT
[#14]
Simply changing the Factory $2.00 recoil-spring when its worn-out instead of continuing to use it for thousands of rounds past 5,000 will cure that little problem 99% of the time.
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:18:05 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
My buddy who sold me his 92 years ago saw me and asked if I still had it. So I took it out and shot it a little, I had forgotten that it was ( for me) pretty accurate. But there was a thread here with photos of piles of 92s with broken slides from military training. Are these pistols just way beyond service life, is the slide just too weak, lack of maintance? Been around many, many M9s in Marine Corps Security forces when everyone had to qualify and again in weapons as a regular grunt. I have never seen a broken slide in person despite having seen ridiculous amounts of ammo down range. I know there were early problems but by the time I got there I never saw it. This was 94-98. I liked the M9 but my smallish hands cant reach the slide mounted safety without changing my grip and of course it weighs 114 pounds. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:20:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The very first qual with the m9 at one of my units was cancelled after a couple m9 slides gave out in 86. The only ammo they had was sub gun ammo and it was too hot. LOL. Had to wait for some std pressure ammo to arrive. Whoops. These were brand spanking new weapons. I can't imagine a clunky rattletrap that is now 30 yrs old. My brother's unit got the M9s before mine did. He told me his guys would line up the sights, then pull their head to the side before pulling the trigger. I hated the M9. Worst trigger I've ever experienced on a firearm. I could barely qualify with it. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:26:28 AM EDT
[#17]
5500 rounds.
Seriously, that's what it was spec'ed for and that was the planned life -- no more, no less. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:29:43 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most likely because it's shot too much with a worn spring. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:30:56 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5500 rounds. Seriously, that's what it was spec'ed for and that was the planned life -- no more, no less. Lol. No. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:31:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5500 rounds. Seriously, that's what it was spec'ed for and that was the planned life -- no more, no less. I've heard this more than once from a few armorers... I had the opportunity to get a Wilson M9A1 for cost - Passed because they fall apart so fast, it's insanity. Sucks too because they're actually pretty nice. 
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:32:58 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5500 rounds. Seriously, that's what it was spec'ed for and that was the planned life -- no more, no less. Quote HistoryQuoted:
5500 rounds. Seriously, that's what it was spec'ed for and that was the planned life -- no more, no less. This is an incredibly stupid statement disproven by every day reality. You are correct, the SPEC on the M9 purchase contract is for a minimum service life of 5,000 rounds. However, while the M9s were purchased under a spec that REQUIRED a service life of 5,000 rounds, in fact, they outperform the minimum requirements by a significant margin as noted here: http://www.berettausa.com/media/download.cfm?d_id=116 The Beretta M9 9mm pistol...exceed(s) all U.S. Military testing guidelines. ... Army tests established the average durability of Beretta M9 slides at over 35,000 rounds, the point at which testing ceased (and over 7 times the contractually mandated service life for the pistol). The average durability of M9 frames is over 30,000 rounds and the average durability of M9 slides was a remarkable 75,000 rounds. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:33:58 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My brother's unit got the M9s before mine did. He told me his guys would line up the sights, then pull their head to the side before pulling the trigger. I hated the M9. Worst trigger I've ever experienced on a firearm. I could barely qualify with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The very first qual with the m9 at one of my units was cancelled after a couple m9 slides gave out in 86. The only ammo they had was sub gun ammo and it was too hot. LOL. Had to wait for some std pressure ammo to arrive. Whoops. These were brand spanking new weapons. I can't imagine a clunky rattletrap that is now 30 yrs old. My brother's unit got the M9s before mine did. He told me his guys would line up the sights, then pull their head to the side before pulling the trigger. I hated the M9. Worst trigger I've ever experienced on a firearm. I could barely qualify with it. You must he a pretty terrible pistol shooter if you could barely qualify with it. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:34:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. IIRC, the problem was with the early 92 models primarily during the military trials. Beretta corrected it with the 92FS model. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That hasn't really been an issue for a long time. This. IIRC, the problem was with the early 92 models primarily during the military trials. Beretta corrected it with the 92FS model. From what I understand they didn't fix the breakage problem, just added a stop so the broken part of the slide doesn't come off and hit you in the face. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:34:47 AM EDT
[#24]
Poor maintainence.
Change the recoil spring and upgrade to the latest gen locking block and the 92 will run for a long long time. The .mil chooses to do neither. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:35:31 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Little to no maintenance and a steady diet of the equvalent of +P. +1 Slides breaking isn't a real issue. Even if we adopted G17s fringe issues would present themselves in the design. 20 years of LCpl "maintenance" 20,000 +P rounds If you give a few LCpls a anvil and free time they'll find a way to break it |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:35:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I understand they didn't fix the breakage problem, just added a stop so the broken part of the slide doesn't come off and hit you in the face. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That hasn't really been an issue for a long time. This. IIRC, the problem was with the early 92 models primarily during the military trials. Beretta corrected it with the 92FS model. From what I understand they didn't fix the breakage problem, just added a stop so the broken part of the slide doesn't come off and hit you in the face. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:41:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You must he a pretty terrible pistol shooter if you could barely qualify with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The very first qual with the m9 at one of my units was cancelled after a couple m9 slides gave out in 86. The only ammo they had was sub gun ammo and it was too hot. LOL. Had to wait for some std pressure ammo to arrive. Whoops. These were brand spanking new weapons. I can't imagine a clunky rattletrap that is now 30 yrs old. My brother's unit got the M9s before mine did. He told me his guys would line up the sights, then pull their head to the side before pulling the trigger. I hated the M9. Worst trigger I've ever experienced on a firearm. I could barely qualify with it. You must he a pretty terrible pistol shooter if you could barely qualify with it. Considering the incredibly low qual standards, a one-eyed man on a drunk horse in a thunderstorm would have no issues passing it. 
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:41:30 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Simply changing the Factory $2.00 recoil-spring when its worn-out instead of continuing to use it for thousands of rounds past 5,000 will cure that little problem 99% of the time. So that spring costs the .gov $247.87? 
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Posted: 7/22/2016 9:57:35 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You must he a pretty terrible pistol shooter if you could barely qualify with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The very first qual with the m9 at one of my units was cancelled after a couple m9 slides gave out in 86. The only ammo they had was sub gun ammo and it was too hot. LOL. Had to wait for some std pressure ammo to arrive. Whoops. These were brand spanking new weapons. I can't imagine a clunky rattletrap that is now 30 yrs old. My brother's unit got the M9s before mine did. He told me his guys would line up the sights, then pull their head to the side before pulling the trigger. I hated the M9. Worst trigger I've ever experienced on a firearm. I could barely qualify with it. You must he a pretty terrible pistol shooter if you could barely qualify with it. When I qualified in 2008, they handed me one fresh out of the box, as in brand spanking new, and I qualified expert with it having never even held one before. There are pistols I like more, but it isn't awful. Edit: just proved JIA's point Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:07:42 AM EDT
[#30]
Very, very few units within the United States military mandates a round-count on individual small arms. Mine did because we had a mission requirement and a superior Property Book Officer.
Every 5,500 rounds a Special Forces Soldier turned in one of his M9s and got a new one which we got direct from the National Inventory Control Point -- the first place anyone in the Green Suit Army touches a weapon sent by a contracted manufacturer to ship to an Army user. While an M9 can, of course, last a whole lot longer (especially if you're doing self-maintenance, like with a privately-owned weapon) a military-owned weapon is only required to last 5,500. Being passed around to tens (if not hundreds) of soldiers during its expected service life I'm not surprised. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:22:35 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Simply changing the Factory $2.00 recoil-spring when its worn-out instead of continuing to use it for thousands of rounds past 5,000 will cure that little problem 99% of the time. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:23:44 AM EDT
[#32]
Lazy people never changing springs & +P ammo.
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:29:11 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
My buddy who sold me his 92 years ago saw me and asked if I still had it. So I took it out and shot it a little, I had forgotten that it was ( for me) pretty accurate. But there was a thread here with photos of piles of 92s with broken slides from military training. Are these pistols just way beyond service life, is the slide just too weak, lack of maintance? Yes to all. I've shot (attempted to shoot) issue M9's with a recoil spring so worn it would not strip the first round from a full magazine when using the slide stop lever. Slingshot method worked...but with a new recoil spring it functioned fine. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:31:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Because it is a shit design.
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:32:29 AM EDT
[#35]
Get a model with a Brigadier slide if you are concerned. Non-existent problem solved.
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:35:17 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because it is a shit design. You do know all slides have a service life. Whats a good design in your opinion? |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:35:29 AM EDT
[#37]
Ever see how NCOs instruct their guys to maintain weapons? That, combined with general failure for the military to grasp the concept of legitimate maintenance.
Scrub the finish off of it? Hell yes! Scrape the crown with a Gerber to remove carbon? Fuck yeah! Use it for years after it's due for replacement? Sign us up! Order replacement springs after 5,000 rounds? GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY OFFICE, CUNT! Same reason the 249, M16, 1911, M2 and MK19 all have a shit reputation for reliability. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:37:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very, very few units within the United States military mandates a round-count on individual small arms. Mine did because we had a mission requirement and a superior Property Book Officer. Every 5,500 rounds a Special Forces Soldier turned in one of his M9s and got a new one which we got direct from the National Inventory Control Point -- the first place anyone in the Green Suit Army touches a weapon sent by a contracted manufacturer to ship to an Army user. While an M9 can, of course, last a whole lot longer (especially if you're doing self-maintenance, like with a privately-owned weapon) a military-owned weapon is only required to last 5,500. Being passed around to tens (if not hundreds) of soldiers during its expected service life I'm not surprised. So, you were SF? And SF junked the 92 every 5500 rounds? At that point, did the Army pass the weapon down to other units or was it actually taken out of service? |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:43:13 AM EDT
[#39]
The only handgun I sold.. I played into hype and bought it....... I'd feel safer with pockets of rocks ...
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:43:22 AM EDT
[#40]
Read the Henderson Defense thread about his Battlefield Vegas accounts. Their Beretta 92s go about 100,000+ rounds before breakage. About the same as their Sigs and dare I say... ...their Glocks.
I have a 1st Iraqi War commemorative 92 that I never shot, broke it out, started shooting it, surprised at it's accuracy and how it perfectly fit my hand. Now it's one of my favorite pistols. The Beretta Forum has a ton of info on this. The initial military guns were made in Italy with a defective batch of French steel. That was corrected and today they are solid. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:43:29 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1 Slides breaking isn't a real issue. Even if we adopted G17s fringe issues would present themselves in the design. 20 years of LCpl "maintenance" 20,000 +P rounds If you give a few LCpls a anvil and free time they'll find a way to break it Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Little to no maintenance and a steady diet of the equvalent of +P. +1 Slides breaking isn't a real issue. Even if we adopted G17s fringe issues would present themselves in the design. 20 years of LCpl "maintenance" 20,000 +P rounds If you give a few LCpls a anvil and free time they'll find a way to break it This. M9's don't actually get taken care of. They're cleaned by end users after firing than issued out to that person for duty. I can't say for sure how the rest of the DoD does it, but we continue issuing the gun until it suffers a disabling failure. Our CATM shop will also do everything but the right thing for an M9 suffering issues which generally means soaking an M9 in a half gallon of CLP to see if that's the issue.  I've never seen a recoil spring replaced in 11 years. 
Only problems I can recall are a broken locking block and trigger return spring (each on different guns). And of course the phosphate magazines are utter piles of shit too. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:49:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because it is a shit design. 
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:57:07 AM EDT
[#43]
I got this from my son a few days ago (Marines):
Had an m9 fall apart in my hand when I was shooting haha Like 4 internals fractured I'm surprised it didn't explode |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:58:32 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My brother's unit got the M9s before mine did. He told me his guys would line up the sights, then pull their head to the side before pulling the trigger. I hated the M9. Worst trigger I've ever experienced on a firearm. I could barely qualify with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The very first qual with the m9 at one of my units was cancelled after a couple m9 slides gave out in 86. The only ammo they had was sub gun ammo and it was too hot. LOL. Had to wait for some std pressure ammo to arrive. Whoops. These were brand spanking new weapons. I can't imagine a clunky rattletrap that is now 30 yrs old. My brother's unit got the M9s before mine did. He told me his guys would line up the sights, then pull their head to the side before pulling the trigger. I hated the M9. Worst trigger I've ever experienced on a firearm. I could barely qualify with it. You must have very little experience with firearms and shooting in general. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:59:25 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ever heard of the 'crack of dawn'? Private Snuffy broke that too. If you lock a PFC in a closet with a pair of bowling balls, after an hour one will be broken, and the other will be pregnant. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 11:00:37 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
USMC armorer from 11-15 and never saw or heard of any slides breaking during that time period. About the only part that failed regularly was the locking block. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That hasn't really been an issue for a long time. USMC armorer from 11-15 and never saw or heard of any slides breaking during that time period. About the only part that failed regularly was the locking block. Was friends with an armorer for the Maryland state police; part of his job was servicing the issued Beretta 96 they were forced to adopt because the Beretta plant used to be located in Maryland. He said he had to replace a lot of cracked locking blocks, but that Beretta did try to fix the issue with tougher, updated locking blocks. Wasn't sure what they did to make them tougher, but he said they broke less often. As for .mil, the issue ammo is a 124 grain bullet loaded to 9mm NATO standards. NATO does not follow SAAMI pressure specifications. But 9mm NATO is roughly equivalent to what we cal "+p" in civilian lingo in the USA. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 11:03:24 AM EDT
[#47]
I thought they fixed the problem years ago, maybe they didn't, or maybe their recall schedule is worse than the VA's when it comes to fixing equipment.
Either way, that's one abused gun. No maintenance, well past its expected service life, often times given to people who have no fucking idea how to shoot or handle a gun, fed overpressure ammunition over its life. If you've seen how terrible some rental guns are that are used and abused by inexperienced shooters feeding them garbage ammunition, I don't think there is any handgun that can stand up to that if it's not regularly maintained and replaced. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 11:04:01 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ever see how NCOs instruct their guys to maintain weapons? That, combined with general failure for the military to grasp the concept of legitimate maintenance. Scrub the finish off of it? Hell yes! Scrape the crown with a Gerber to remove carbon? Fuck yeah! Use it for years after it's due for replacement? Sign us up! Order replacement springs after 5,000 rounds? GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY OFFICE, CUNT! Same reason the 249, M16, 1911, M2 and MK19 all have a shit reputation for reliability. This. My engineer battalion had shit weapons. Not because the design was bad, because they were not being maintained other than cleaning and were old/worn. Spare parts were non-existent and the armorers had no idea what he was doing. No proactive replacement of anything. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 11:05:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shit tons of +P SMG ammo? That's my understanding. The Seals got a bunch of euro smg ammo and was shooting the hell out of it. I can attest to the fact that it shouldn't be shot in pistols regularly, if at all. Shit be hot, yo.
The rest are probably just high volume, worn spring failures. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 11:16:52 AM EDT
[#50]
I hope the trigger return springs last longer than mine did...less than 500 rounds, way less.
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