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Posted: 7/30/2023 2:46:51 PM EDT
Being from a Swiss-German family this is something I've wondered my entire life and I've never heard a satisfactory answer.
Give an enginnering task to Germans and they will usually come up with something that uses at least twice as many parts as say a similar thing created by an American or even a British firm. We could talk about what the French would whip up to do the job but thats a whole other conversation.  During WW2 the German military pursued more complex weapons systems on the grounds that in a war of attrition they knew that they could never keep up with British, Russian and American industrial might. So they had a philosophy that one their weapons should be able to beat 3 of theirs. At least I was told this. For all I know that is just one among millions of WW2 myths. That said it's been a long time since that war and it looks like the germans are still making lots of complicated things. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 2:49:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Gott mit uns.
The arrogant legion running things didn’t count on God fearing country boys kicking their asses. Kind of the same mentality we see here today. Arrogance! Pride! Heathens in leadership. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 2:49:31 PM EDT
[#2]
One of the rules of German cars is: Why use one type of fastener for a component/assembly, when you can use three different ones requiring three different types/sizes of tools?
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Posted: 7/30/2023 2:53:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Germany is a country of engineers and smart people who like order
So what happens when you let them make something? They try to out engineer the next guy British normally just engineer good enough to work because why not, it works don’t it? USA engineering revolves around how much profit can we squeeze out of each unit and if that means we can use all the same Bolts we will Do it |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 2:55:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Their language has 87 letter words to describe the particular kind of despondent anger felt when you don't get the price you wanted for your crops at the market, but only during leap years
That and prussians and it all makes sense to me |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 2:58:39 PM EDT
[#5]
My dad worked for a Berlin-based German company & he claimed they couldn’t understand “American thinking” which was “too rudimentary & unsophisticated.”
Not an answer, I realize, but I suspect cultural differences factor in. For example—when the infamous Luger pistol had reliability issues with dirt & ammo—a better holster was offered, rather than “A1” version. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 2:58:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Weil sie natürlich können.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 2:59:57 PM EDT
[#7]
The bastards are still getting back at us for kicking their asses, twice.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:02:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Germans are evil. That’s why.
Destroyed Rome, invented Marxism, etc. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:02:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their language has 87 letter words to describe the particular kind of despondent anger felt when you don't get the price you wanted for your crops at the market, but only during leap years That and prussians and it all makes sense to me Höchstgeschwindigkeitsbegrenzungszeichen. 40 letters…41 if the ö is oe. What is it: speed limit sign. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:04:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Being from a Swiss-German family this is something I've wondered my entire life and I've never heard a satisfactory answer. Give an enginnering task to Germans and they will usually come up with something that uses at least twice as many parts as say a similar thing created by an American or even a British firm. We could talk about what the French would whip up to do the job but thats a whole other conversation. During WW2 the German military pursued more complex weapons systems on the grounds that in a war of attrition they knew that they could never keep up with British, Russian and American industrial might. So they had a philosophy that one their weapons should be able to beat 3 of theirs. At least I was told this. For all I know that is just one among millions of WW2 myths. That said it's been a long time since that war and it looks like the germans are still making lots of complicated things.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:05:57 PM EDT
[#11]
It's just "complicated" to American smooth-brains.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:07:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Gerry-rigged.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:07:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Efficiency über convenience
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:08:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Take a look at the F-35 and tell me how we are any better?
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:09:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Germans love to over engineer and I don’t think they have ever stuck by the “kiss” principle
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:09:27 PM EDT
[#16]
KISS is not in the German dictionary.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:12:16 PM EDT
[#17]
The German engineering philosophy is based on the concept. Why use one part when four parts will do
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:12:30 PM EDT
[#18]
It's like this but with guns
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:13:57 PM EDT
[#19]
You know how some people think using big words makes them seem smarter...even when they arent using the big words properly...
That is german engineering in a lot of cases. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:14:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Simplistic solutions are for simpletons.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:14:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Take a look at the F-35 and tell me how we are any better? F-35 is a special case. 1. Its a frontline fighter aircraft. You can't make those simple anymore. People have tried, really, really hard. 2. Imagine you're a tailor and a very wealthy schizophrenic walks into your shop with 35 different scraps of random fabric in his clenched hands. He wants this pile of nonsense made into two coats and a shirt. With the list of demands from the US military and foreign militaries I think the F-35 came out rather well. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:14:39 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the rules of German cars is: Why use one type of fastener for a component/assembly, when you can use three different ones requiring three different types/sizes of tools? Yep. Removing the belly pan on my car to do an oil change requires: -Phillips driver for 7ea DZUS (1/4 turn) fasteners - 3 across front, 2 each side -T30 bit for 3ea fasteners in back -Triple square Size 9 bit for 4ea fasteners in side rails Let’s not even talk about parts that actually bear load! |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:15:16 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:16:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Dude.... come work with me in a bodyshop where we specialize on BMWs, Porsches, Audis, Mercedes. They are the most overly complicated things on the road. I like to say that GM sent a bunch of kindergarteners to Germany to learn engineering from BMW and then came back to the states to engineer for GM.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:16:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Its just their style.
I integrate automation into german built machinery all the time. They are always flabbergasted that I demand just a few discrete I/O to keep shit simple and easy to troubleshoot. They want to share 8700 needless I/O over a Profibus network which would need to then be adapted to work with Ethernet IP…ie: clusterfuck. Remember one argument about this and the guy says in a heavy German accent, “But you have all this capability”. They just don’t subscribe to the KISS philosophy. If a PLC has 87 inputs they will design it with 87 buttons no matter the application. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:18:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Two of my friends work for a German company. The over complicated thing is 100% on target.
They complain that they cannot compete in the US market because the US equipment is really made in China or Mexico. Well, its because the stuff is so much more complicated and their tolerances are so much tighter, even it does not benefit the product. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:18:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Read this many years ago, and laughed my ass off
"If Germans invented the anvil, it would have 17 parts, and require yearly calibration" 
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:18:57 PM EDT
[#28]
My father was a German born machinist.
He never saw a project he couldn't make more complex. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:19:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Read this many years ago, and laughed my ass off "If Germans invented the anvil, it would have 17 parts, and require yearly calibration" Screen name checks out.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:20:17 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My dad worked for a Berlin-based German company & he claimed they couldn’t understand “American thinking” which was “too rudimentary & unsophisticated.” Not an answer, I realize, but I suspect cultural differences factor in. For example—when the infamous Luger pistol had reliability issues with dirt & ammo—a better holster was offered, rather than “A1” version. I used to work for a company that offered products across 16 different countries. We adopted get 80% to perfect and moved on. The Japanese team couldn’t handle it. I explained in the time it takes to make A perfect I can make B, C, D, E 50% better and make 2x the profit. They got so frustrated they sent an email to my leaders. I replied I had improved the profitability 100% by prioritizing. Then I listed their unfinished projects and how it stopped me from doubling the profit and they were putting us at regulatory risk. It really backfired for them. It looked like they were not doing their job but trying to be my boss. They ended up prioritizing anything I said. It was a hard way to learn to listen. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:20:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Because sometimes you need to land on the moon and return people safely
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:20:36 PM EDT
[#32]
Because it is cool or because they can. Pretty much the same reason some people climb mountains or run marathons. Same reason most engineers try to invent a more perfect wheel or design multiple transition pieces to perform the same job.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:25:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Double tap
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:34:50 PM EDT
[#34]
My experience with Germans from having a German wife and interacting with a lot of graduate students is that they revel in being clever even at the expense of being efficient.
A good example is that I had the experience of vetting a lot of scientific papers written by German grad students. The requirement was that they be written in English. In almost every case I had to explain to the authors that if their target audience had trouble understanding what they wrote it, regardless of the correctness of the grammar, that it was bad writing, not that the audience wasn't smart enough to understand. This completely perplexed and disappointed them. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:39:41 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:45:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Because HK hates you.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:51:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Germans are all autists. When they become obsessed with something they take it to the nth degree, whether that thing be fancy autos or lebensraum.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:57:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: KISS is not in the German dictionary. It was in some instances when they were losing World War II. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:57:18 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Read this many years ago, and laughed my ass off "If Germans invented the anvil, it would have 17 parts, and require yearly calibration" My dad said something like this in 1976 when he began working for the German company, but I couldn’t remember—This pithy observation sums it nicely. Another example is American muscle cars: V-8 over-bored (?) 5.2L to accomplish what a fuel-injection, turbocharged straight 4 cylinder 3.0L German car, or something like that. I know shit about cars—my old man knew & did a great deal & likened German stuff to “making do with less” vs American “make it bigger.” His other example was .45 vs 9mm, which I could more easily understand. Cars, not so much…. ETA: this poster said it best: clever even at the expense of being efficient. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:57:30 PM EDT
[#40]
My real-world take after working with Germans is that there is a concept of superiority (still very real).
If you can create something complex, to them it's a higher form of engineering. Add in precision to a complex piece of machinery and that is viewed as somehow superior. IME, they are like that in a lot of things, and they are some of the least flexible people on Earth in terms of changing the idea that the German idea could ever be improved. The German way is ALWAYS the right way, bar none. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:57:34 PM EDT
[#41]
It's not just engineering. In tech they love to reinvent the wheel.
It serves 2 purposes... 1) it makes them feel good and 2) keeps German protectionism. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:58:09 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Germans are evil. That's why. Destroyed Rome, invented Marxism, etc. Americans: Hmm. the workers have some shitty living conditions. How about a 40 hour work week? English: Same but with more "cheerios" and "God save the Queen." French: Hold mass protest. Then just copy the English and Americans. Spain/Italy: Lol. We'd never work that hard to begin with. Scandinavia: Ahead of both the Americans and English but doesn't brag about it so no one notices. Germans: Nein! Nein! Nein! Ve vill seize ze means of produktion and zen ve vill kill all ze Kulaks! Russians: Da. Want to kill Kulaks anyways so Marxism it is. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:58:30 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Germans are all autists. When they become obsessed with something they take it to the nth degree, whether that thing be fancy autos or lebensraum. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 3:59:55 PM EDT
[#44]
Self loathing.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 4:00:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Care to guess where Johann Aspberger was from? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Germans are all autists. When they become obsessed with something they take it to the nth degree, whether that thing be fancy autos or lebensraum. Zee Germans? |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 4:01:00 PM EDT
[#46]
do the germans shed tears in the warm beers when a 50k vette can thrash a 250k porsche's times at the nurburgring?
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Posted: 7/30/2023 4:02:32 PM EDT
[#47]
Working with German engineers in the past this is not a stereotype..
Or the stereotype is true. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 4:06:37 PM EDT
[#48]
Audi:
 General Motors LS block:  Germans like complexity for complexity's sake. Ask a lazy person to do something. They'll find a faster, easier and more efficient way to accomplish the task. |
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Posted: 7/30/2023 4:06:56 PM EDT
[#49]
Because they can.
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Posted: 7/30/2023 4:11:39 PM EDT
[#50]
There are cultural and logical reasons Germans are the way we are. One we like rules and order not loose policy and chaos. You give us parameters to stay between and we will make something within those parameters which sometimes leads to complexity to stay within the outlined parameters/rules. We will not try and get around the rules or bend them we will go overly complex to stay within the lines.
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