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Posted: 11/18/2018 12:26:39 PM EST
[#1]
Thanks for the replies...digging into those names now. I think the fire chief wants something fancy that we dont really need.
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Posted: 11/18/2018 12:46:29 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pierce, Seagraves, E-One, Smeal, I know I'm missing more. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 12:52:59 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not going to apologize for slowing traffic down to keep from getting hit by a car. My mom taught me not to play in traffic. It's a shame that isn't a lesson taught in elementary school. I always did what I could to get traffic running as quickly as possible, but if you want to compromise firefighter safety for inconvenienced commuters then you should apply for CHP. Those guys are incident command for everything on the highways for some dumb reason. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The standard is the accident lane plus one. If it was in in the #1 lane I'd put the rig across 1 and 2 all day without losing a minute's sleep. If the wreck extended into the second lane then, well three it is. I always did what I could to get traffic running as quickly as possible, but if you want to compromise firefighter safety for inconvenienced commuters then you should apply for CHP. Those guys are incident command for everything on the highways for some dumb reason. Now, making fun of each other and taking the piss, well that's expected. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 12:59:42 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No shit! Our FD needs a new ladder truck...$500k and up! My wife is on the city council...it's a damn investment! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I can tell you that they are expensive! |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 1:17:20 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sutphen, KME, Rosenbauer, HME and Ferrara also. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 1:18:52 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How long is it going to be in use? The city I work for uses its engines and trucks for 10-15 years. So, $500k is really spread over the lifetime of the truck. It's not much spread out over that time frame, but still. Kinda sticks in the craw to have to pay that much if there are cheaper alternatives - for ONE friggin building. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 1:26:37 PM EST
[#7]
Because, what the heck, it’s just tax money. Who doesn’t love taxes.
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Posted: 11/18/2018 1:29:18 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're incorrect. PC 409 places the police agency who's jurisdiction it is in charge of scene safety on all crashes on a highway, not just the CHP. This is how FFs wind up in handcuffs in the back of police cars. In my experience, FD behavior at vehicle crashes places PD officers in danger, unless managed properly. I find communicating with the Battalion Chief, when they are not raging assholes, is key. We do, unfortunately, have one raging asshole who was a BC on our local department. He quit most of his antics when we got body-worn cameras. He was so bad he was promoted to Dep. Chief to get him away from the working FFs, public and the police. He is the exception, not the rule. Most of the time the BC and Watch Commander work together pretty well. The BC on my days on is a guy I went to High School with and was on the wrestling team with. We have no issues and our crews all work together to solve issues. Now, making fun of each other and taking the piss, well that's expected. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The standard is the accident lane plus one. If it was in in the #1 lane I'd put the rig across 1 and 2 all day without losing a minute's sleep. If the wreck extended into the second lane then, well three it is. I always did what I could to get traffic running as quickly as possible, but if you want to compromise firefighter safety for inconvenienced commuters then you should apply for CHP. Those guys are incident command for everything on the highways for some dumb reason. Now, making fun of each other and taking the piss, well that's expected. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 1:30:28 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no idea. The last truck (that they sold for $6000!) was in use for 10 years. It's not much spread out over that time frame, but still. Kinda sticks in the craw to have to pay that much if there are cheaper alternatives - for ONE friggin building. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: How long is it going to be in use? The city I work for uses its engines and trucks for 10-15 years. So, $500k is really spread over the lifetime of the truck. It's not much spread out over that time frame, but still. Kinda sticks in the craw to have to pay that much if there are cheaper alternatives - for ONE friggin building. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 1:34:20 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You realize that manufacturers do that at their own expense? I work in school busses for a living, if we order XXX number of busses we get a complimentary trip to the plant and have training classes at no extra cost. 
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Posted: 11/18/2018 1:38:51 PM EST
[#11]
Form over function, bad leadership that values appearance over more training, etc?
Sounds like classic government to me. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 1:42:35 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow... really?? It’s just free like welfare and food stamps, huh? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You realize that manufacturers do that at their own expense? I work in school busses for a living, if we order XXX number of busses we get a complimentary trip to the plant and have training classes at no extra cost. Although I think we paid to send our guys there, because a few hundred dollars to inspect a $500,000+ asset during build out is probably a good investment. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 2:08:28 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you mean "for one friggin building"? |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 2:35:20 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you want practical fire fighting machines, look to the airports or Europe. I agree with OP. It's a waste. These look 100 times better to my eyes  
Can we get a blue one with an M61 Vulcan loaded with beanbag rounds for riot control? 
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Posted: 11/18/2018 2:36:13 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have one building in the city that is taller than 2 stories. The only reason we need a damn ladder truck is for that one 4 story building. Oh well. If you don't already have a ladder truck, I'd be willing to bet the chief is also looking for some ISO credit to lower insurance premiums. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 2:39:58 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no idea. The last truck (that they sold for $6000!) was in use for 10 years. It's not much spread out over that time frame, but still. Kinda sticks in the craw to have to pay that much if there are cheaper alternatives - for ONE friggin building. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: How long is it going to be in use? The city I work for uses its engines and trucks for 10-15 years. So, $500k is really spread over the lifetime of the truck. It's not much spread out over that time frame, but still. Kinda sticks in the craw to have to pay that much if there are cheaper alternatives - for ONE friggin building. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 2:43:46 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey, I don't tell you guys how to do cpr and other medical stuff, don't tell me how to try to keep a road open! Y'all don't care if you cause traffic to back up for miles or cause 2 secondary fender benders, once you take off it's back to video games and coffee in the lazy boys, not cleaning up the mess Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Depends on the situation. But I do not disagree with you. That is the way we handle things here, BOSS. Just sounds like you work around some guys who aren't quite up to date. Paramedics have a duty to act though. That is ingrained in them. And if they leave somebody complaining of something behind it can be scary for them sometimes. You gotta document and get the signatures. Bottom line is yes make things as safe as you can, while inconveniencing people the least. Still no crime in blocking two lanes on the highway for a one lane wreck BOSS. I am just worried about your safety!  I am here to keep you safe BOSS. And when you aren't I am here to stop the bleeding. 
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Posted: 11/18/2018 2:44:00 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have one building in the city that is taller than 2 stories. The only reason we need a damn ladder truck is for that one 4 story building. Oh well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What do you mean "for one friggin building"? Steep pitches on homes can be safer to work off of the tip than off roof ladders, extracting people from weird locations. as an elevated master stream during defensive firefighting, an elevated standpipe, or as a placeable light tower during rescues are all other uses for a ladder truck. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 2:45:24 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess that begs the question, do FDs open themselves (and their municipalities) to litigation if they don’t purchase good equipment? I can see some ambulance chaser making a big deal out of it if someone dies and they can attribute it to “inferior” equipment. I’m asking because I don’t know, not trying to make any sort of point here. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 2:57:14 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not always about height. Sometimes it's about reach. Big box stores and factories aren't all that tall, for example, but you need to be able to get out over the top of them when they catch on fire. $500k seems pretty cheap. Is it used? If you don't already have a ladder truck, I'd be willing to bet the chief is also looking for some ISO credit to lower insurance premiums. I have no idea whether it's used or not - I'm hearing all of this 3rd party - my wife's the one that sits though the meetings. I just show up occasionally to throw thought grenades and watch the mayhem. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 2:58:30 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess that begs the question, do FDs open themselves (and their municipalities) to litigation if they don’t purchase good equipment? I can see some ambulance chaser making a big deal out of it if someone dies and they can attribute it to “inferior” equipment. I’m asking because I don’t know, not trying to make any sort of point here. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 3:02:16 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very valid question. They need the truck, no doubt about it...I'm just brain storming ideas to lower the cost to the city (and ME, the tax payer). I'm sure some ambulance chaser would try to make some money off the situation if it arose. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I guess that begs the question, do FDs open themselves (and their municipalities) to litigation if they don’t purchase good equipment? I can see some ambulance chaser making a big deal out of it if someone dies and they can attribute it to “inferior” equipment. I’m asking because I don’t know, not trying to make any sort of point here. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 3:02:27 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what I figured you meant. Trucks are useful for more than just tall buildings. Steep pitches on homes can be safer to work off of the tip than off roof ladders, extracting people from weird locations. as an elevated master stream during defensive firefighting, an elevated standpipe, or as a placeable light tower during rescues are all other uses for a ladder truck. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 3:12:48 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have one building in the city that is taller than 2 stories. The only reason we need a damn ladder truck is for that one 4 story building. Oh well. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 3:15:19 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess that begs the question, do FDs open themselves (and their municipalities) to litigation if they don’t purchase good equipment? I can see some ambulance chaser making a big deal out of it if someone dies and they can attribute it to “inferior” equipment. I’m asking because I don’t know, not trying to make any sort of point here. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 3:19:23 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess that begs the question, do FDs open themselves (and their municipalities) to litigation if they don’t purchase good equipment? I can see some ambulance chaser making a big deal out of it if someone dies and they can attribute it to “inferior” equipment. I’m asking because I don’t know, not trying to make any sort of point here. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 3:20:01 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup...wanted to hear from folks that know...google results on this kind of stuff have left me with egg on my face before. ETA: Tallest building we have in town is 4 stories. Chief says we need a $500k truck for that...I'm thinking we can get a barely used one for a bit cheaper. FFS we are a population of less than 5000 - we can't exactly spend that kind of money! From what I'm seeing online, it looks like he may not be far off - but damn. Anyone in the know have any idea on how much a ladder truck like that would run? Cheapest I saw was $300k. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 3:25:45 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Barely used will be a problem. If it was purchased with the help of a federal grant, which a lot of city equipment is, there are likely age/hours limits before replacement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yup...wanted to hear from folks that know...google results on this kind of stuff have left me with egg on my face before. ETA: Tallest building we have in town is 4 stories. Chief says we need a $500k truck for that...I'm thinking we can get a barely used one for a bit cheaper. FFS we are a population of less than 5000 - we can't exactly spend that kind of money! From what I'm seeing online, it looks like he may not be far off - but damn. Anyone in the know have any idea on how much a ladder truck like that would run? Cheapest I saw was $300k. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 3:26:30 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can tell you that they are expensive! A city near me just bought a new one (which was crashed/collided into a telephone poll the next day) for 1.1 mil. Edit: 1.1 mil. Not 1.6. |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 3:28:58 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no idea. The last truck (that they sold for $6000!) was in use for 10 years. It's not much spread out over that time frame, but still. Kinda sticks in the craw to have to pay that much if there are cheaper alternatives - for ONE friggin building. Most ladder trucks I'm familiar with have a pretty big nozzle on the end of the ladder or platform. Here is a Detroit chemical plant fire video. FF to about 1:40:  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 11/18/2018 5:33:49 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no idea. The last truck (that they sold for $6000!) was in use for 10 years. It's not much spread out over that time frame, but still. Kinda sticks in the craw to have to pay that much if there are cheaper alternatives - for ONE friggin building. |
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Posted: 11/19/2018 1:09:11 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not going to apologize for slowing traffic down to keep from getting hit by a car. My mom taught me not to play in traffic. It's a shame that isn't a lesson taught in elementary school. I always did what I could to get traffic running as quickly as possible, but if you want to compromise firefighter safety for inconvenienced commuters then you should apply for CHP. Those guys are incident command for everything on the highways for some dumb reason. Unfortunately, with the chess game EMA has been playing, and with EMA stacked full of fire and ems, here is what the national standard is becoming: https://learning.respondersafety.com/Clusters/National-TIM-Training-Certificate.aspx I'm lost at people trying to equate fire apparatus to patrol cars. Patrol cars are driven *every* day, from idling for a half hour, then driven like a race car, then driven like an off-road vehicle, then handed off to the next shift. There are some fire trucks that only move a few times a year. It's not the same. |
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Posted: 12/17/2018 5:10:53 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are some fire trucks that only move a few times a year. It's not the same. I think in my city the least used fire asset is the command rig and it still rolls out often enough (I can't listen anymore but I can see it drive out). Also a free bump to see more trucks
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