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Posted: 12/28/2015 8:56:17 PM EST
[#1]
Been smokin tonight op?
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Posted: 12/28/2015 8:56:28 PM EST
[#2]
Unless the projectile exits the atmosphere it won't make a difference.
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Posted: 12/28/2015 8:57:28 PM EST
[#3]
It flies farthest with a tail wind.
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Posted: 12/28/2015 8:59:18 PM EST
[#4]
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Posted: 12/28/2015 8:59:25 PM EST
[#5]
Since the artillery piece is moving with the Earth's rotation it makes no difference. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:01:05 PM EST
[#6]
TOF is the same.
Once aloft, the target is actually moving. The difference between E-W and W-E, is an actual calculation the Doughnuts and Coffee gang deal with. Max distance is East to West, by a smidge. The longer the TOF, the more of a smidge. Howitzer on a Treadmill? 
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:01:23 PM EST
[#7]
Better question is how much faster firing artillery speeds up the earths rotation.
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:02:34 PM EST
[#8]
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:03:43 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Better question is how much faster firing artillery speeds up the earths rotation. If we make sure all artillery is fired east, and all planes on a treadmill take off west, it'll cancel out and the earth's angular momentum will stay the same. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:04:51 PM EST
[#10]
There was actually an article about this n Varmnt Hunter magazine a few years ago. Even long range rifle shooting is effected. High altitude bombers acount for earth's rotation. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:06:29 PM EST
[#11]
The question is poorly formulated and likely meant to be a joke.
The direction you are firing IS factored into the gunnery calculations though, related to earth's spin. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:09:39 PM EST
[#12]
Threadmill with magnets is always the correct answer.
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:12:05 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Threadmill with magnets is always the correct answer. 
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:12:54 PM EST
[#14]
Coriolis Effect...maybe.
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:14:25 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Coriolis Effect...maybe. Came here to post this. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:16:03 PM EST
[#16]
Flies farther in the direction of the rotation of earth.
As observed from space. Actually it may depend on what point in the earths rotation we are in corrosponding to its orbit. If you take a fish tank inside a plane going 760mph and the fish swims in the direction the plane is flying at 5mph does the fish cause a sonic boom? 
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:19:01 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Came here to post this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Coriolis Effect...maybe. Came here to post this. only if it went north south |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:19:07 PM EST
[#18]
Is the artillery piece on or near the equator? One of the poles perhaps?
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:19:53 PM EST
[#19]
I'd bet wind is a higher factor.
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:21:51 PM EST
[#20]
More important is whether there is a name on the barrel
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:23:21 PM EST
[#21]
Five Requirements:
Accurate Target Location Accurate Battery (Gun) Location Accurate Ammunition and Weapon Information Accurate Met (Weather) Info Accurate Computational Procedures Rotation of the Earth doesn't matter. Wind direction/speed and drift of the round due to the spinning of the round are taken into consideration. If you account for all 5 of the variables above you can be very accurate in regards to POI and TOT. Manually calculated gunnery can be accurate, computers make it easier. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:24:12 PM EST
[#22]
If shot north or south in the northern hemisphere it will veer counterclockwise.
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:24:17 PM EST
[#23]
What if the Artillery piece is on the moon shooting back at Earth?
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:25:09 PM EST
[#24]
 |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:26:43 PM EST
[#25]
you fell off the treadmill for Christs sake
if you are not shooting over the horizon you just eat chorizo to counter don coriolis |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:27:01 PM EST
[#26]
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:28:54 PM EST
[#27]
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:29:45 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Five Requirements: Accurate Target Location Accurate Battery (Gun) Location Accurate Ammunition and Weapon Information Accurate Met (Weather) Info Accurate Computational Procedures Rotation of the Earth doesn't matter. Wind direction/speed and drift of the round due to the spinning of the round are taken into consideration. If you account for all 5 of the variables above you can be very accurate in regards to POI and TOT. Manually calculated gunnery can be accurate, computers make it easier. lol |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:30:35 PM EST
[#29]
Spraying the nose of the round with Teflon will increase max range by 1/2 - 1 km.
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:31:05 PM EST
[#30]
Something about toilets is probably applicable here...
This is now a poop thread |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:34:41 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Five Requirements: Accurate Target Location Accurate Battery (Gun) Location Accurate Ammunition and Weapon Information Accurate Met (Weather) Info Accurate Computational Procedures Rotation of the Earth doesn't matter. Wind direction/speed and drift of the round due to the spinning of the round are taken into consideration. If you account for all 5 of the variables above you can be very accurate in regards to POI and TOT. Manually calculated gunnery can be accurate, computers make it easier. This is the serious answer. Accurate Met is the variables. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:36:10 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Five Requirements: Accurate Target Location Accurate Battery (Gun) Location Accurate Ammunition and Weapon Information Accurate Met (Weather) Info Accurate Computational Procedures Rotation of the Earth doesn't matter. Wind direction/speed and drift of the round due to the spinning of the round are taken into consideration. If you account for all 5 of the variables above you can be very accurate in regards to POI and TOT. Manually calculated gunnery can be accurate, computers make it easier. lol Instead of laughing tell us the science. Your screen name sez you know it. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:36:53 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryI just don't quite get it. I'll use simplified speeds to articulate what I'm not understanding. If you shoot with the rotation of the earth and the earths speed is 400mph, the bullets speed relative to the firearm is 200mph, the firearm is already traveling at 400mph. So you are at 400mph and fire, the bullet is now going 400mph+200mph. You're now at 600mph but the Earth is still rotating at 400mph so you subtract 400mph and you're back at 200mph relative to the Earth. If you shoot against the rotation the gun is traveling at -400mph. Shoot and you ad 200mph. You're now at -200mph but the Earth is moving towards the bullet at 400mph so you ad that and you're still at 200mph relative to the Earth. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:48:39 PM EST
[#34]
FA firing solutions don't account for it.
<-- Was Field Artillery FDC (Fire Direction Control) 13D |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 9:49:05 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Instead of laughing tell us the science. Your screen name sez you know it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Five Requirements: Accurate Target Location Accurate Battery (Gun) Location Accurate Ammunition and Weapon Information Accurate Met (Weather) Info Accurate Computational Procedures Rotation of the Earth doesn't matter. Wind direction/speed and drift of the round due to the spinning of the round are taken into consideration. If you account for all 5 of the variables above you can be very accurate in regards to POI and TOT. Manually calculated gunnery can be accurate, computers make it easier. lol Instead of laughing tell us the science. Your screen name sez you know it. I'm definitely wrong about stuff all the time and the last time I touched a TFT was 2008 so I'd like to know the correct answer. Learning manual gunnery was actually pretty interesting as a gun-nut. People either loved it or hated it with a majority not caring for it. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:01:03 PM EST
[#36]
As a Gunnery Instructor I wish I had a real keyboard. There's just too much fuck in this thread to type with my thumb.
I'll make this simple. Take away every variable that must be compensated for except rotation of the Earth. No wind direction/speed, no air density, no humidity, no temperature, no centripetal drift of the projectile. No anything other than the rotation of the Earth. Fire a round perfectly straight up. When it comes back down and impacts, is it east or west of the point from which it was fired? There's your answer. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:05:20 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just don't quite get it. I'll use simplified speeds to articulate what I'm not understanding. If you shoot with the rotation of the earth and the earths speed is 400mph, the bullets speed relative to the firearm is 200mph, the firearm is already traveling at 400mph. So you are at 400mph and fire, the bullet is now going 400mph+200mph. You're now at 600mph but the Earth is still rotating at 400mph so you subtract 400mph and you're back at 200mph relative to the Earth. If you shoot against the rotation the gun is traveling at -400mph. Shoot and you ad 200mph. You're now at -200mph but the Earth is moving towards the bullet at 400mph so you ad that and you're still at 200mph relative to the Earth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just don't quite get it. I'll use simplified speeds to articulate what I'm not understanding. If you shoot with the rotation of the earth and the earths speed is 400mph, the bullets speed relative to the firearm is 200mph, the firearm is already traveling at 400mph. So you are at 400mph and fire, the bullet is now going 400mph+200mph. You're now at 600mph but the Earth is still rotating at 400mph so you subtract 400mph and you're back at 200mph relative to the Earth. If you shoot against the rotation the gun is traveling at -400mph. Shoot and you ad 200mph. You're now at -200mph but the Earth is moving towards the bullet at 400mph so you ad that and you're still at 200mph relative to the Earth. The way I understand it, speed doesn't matter. What matters is the fact that the round is leaving earth and the earth underneath it is changing which changes where the round hits. But I see what you are saying |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:05:40 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FA firing solutions don't account for it. <-- Was Field Artillery FDC (Fire Direction Control) 13D Wrong. It absolutely does. Ever work a Christmas Tree? It's on it. Guess why firing data computers need to know the grid zone designator of where you are. It's so it can properly correct for the Earth's rotation. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:07:17 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
only if it went north south Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Coriolis Effect...maybe. Came here to post this. only if it went north south No. There are some great youtube videos that explain the Coriolis effect, and how it applies in every direction, not just N-S |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:08:05 PM EST
[#40]
 |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:08:28 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just don't quite get it. I'll use simplified speeds to articulate what I'm not understanding. If you shoot with the rotation of the earth and the earths speed is 400mph, the bullets speed relative to the firearm is 200mph, the firearm is already traveling at 400mph. So you are at 400mph and fire, the bullet is now going 400mph+200mph. You're now at 600mph but the Earth is still rotating at 400mph so you subtract 400mph and you're back at 200mph relative to the Earth. If you shoot against the rotation the gun is traveling at -400mph. Shoot and you ad 200mph. You're now at -200mph but the Earth is moving towards the bullet at 400mph so you ad that and you're still at 200mph relative to the Earth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just don't quite get it. I'll use simplified speeds to articulate what I'm not understanding. If you shoot with the rotation of the earth and the earths speed is 400mph, the bullets speed relative to the firearm is 200mph, the firearm is already traveling at 400mph. So you are at 400mph and fire, the bullet is now going 400mph+200mph. You're now at 600mph but the Earth is still rotating at 400mph so you subtract 400mph and you're back at 200mph relative to the Earth. If you shoot against the rotation the gun is traveling at -400mph. Shoot and you ad 200mph. You're now at -200mph but the Earth is moving towards the bullet at 400mph so you ad that and you're still at 200mph relative to the Earth. You don't quite get it compared to that video because that video is wrong and you are right. It makes no difference which direction you fire east/west it will go the same distance and take the same amount of time. Everything is moving in relation to the earth so the forces cancel as if there is no rotation. If we were talking north/south firing that's a different story (always aim left!). |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:11:03 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I feel like this is some sort of veiled attempt at a plane on a treadmill question. Not really. The launcher is moving, the projectile is already moving before you fire it, the atmosphere is moving, and the target is moving. The overall effect is minimal if you're not leaving the atmosphere. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:11:18 PM EST
[#43]
The Germans knew this stuff a hundred years ago when they were shelling Paris...
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:11:30 PM EST
[#44]
Flies the same actual distance either way, but appears otherwise as for one direction the target is moving closer to the shooter and in the other, the target is moving further away.
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:11:39 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Five Requirements: Accurate Target Location Accurate Battery (Gun) Location Accurate Ammunition and Weapon Information Accurate Met (Weather) Info Accurate Computational Procedures Rotation of the Earth doesn't matter. Wind direction/speed and drift of the round due to the spinning of the round are taken into consideration. If you account for all 5 of the variables above you can be very accurate in regards to POI and TOT. Manually calculated gunnery can be accurate, computers make it easier. Must be Army mortars. Go re-read your FM 6-40 Ch 3 section 3. Where you'll find your abbreviated list AND the list of Standard Deviations, which includes the rotation of the Earth. It is factored into manual and computational ballistics. The trigonometry related to the azimuth you are firing on and your time of flight are factored against their relation to the direction of Earth's rotation. It can be a significant offset in impact especially at longer ranges, since the surface of the Earth is moving about 1000mph at the equator. That's about 1500ft/sec. Time of flight for a standard HE shell can be as long as a minute. Firing with or against that rotation can make a huge difference. But since most combat arty is adjust fire, hey, who cares about first shot accuracy, amirite? |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:11:43 PM EST
[#46]
What will take longer, manually computing that or getting the AFATDS up and running?
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:12:50 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What will take longer, manually computing that or getting the AFATDS up and running? "inshallah" is even faster... |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:12:56 PM EST
[#48]
Enough to matter or enough to shoot out? Doubt it.
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:13:24 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. There are some great youtube videos that explain the Coriolis effect, and how it applies in every direction, not just N-S Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Coriolis Effect...maybe. Came here to post this. only if it went north south No. There are some great youtube videos that explain the Coriolis effect, and how it applies in every direction, not just N-S If there are youtube videos explaining a E/W coriolis effect I would not be using the word "great," they are wrong. The only forces that effect an object in the east/west direction are gravity and the force of an object moving east that will try to "escape" gravity. That effect is virtually nothing (because gravity is so strong) and isn't a Coriolis effect anyways. |
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Posted: 12/28/2015 10:13:25 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't quite get it compared to that video because that video is wrong and you are right. It makes no difference which direction you fire east/west it will go the same distance and take the same amount of time. Everything is moving in relation to the earth so the forces cancel as if there is no rotation. If we were talking north/south firing that's a different story (always aim left!). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just don't quite get it. I'll use simplified speeds to articulate what I'm not understanding. If you shoot with the rotation of the earth and the earths speed is 400mph, the bullets speed relative to the firearm is 200mph, the firearm is already traveling at 400mph. So you are at 400mph and fire, the bullet is now going 400mph+200mph. You're now at 600mph but the Earth is still rotating at 400mph so you subtract 400mph and you're back at 200mph relative to the Earth. If you shoot against the rotation the gun is traveling at -400mph. Shoot and you ad 200mph. You're now at -200mph but the Earth is moving towards the bullet at 400mph so you ad that and you're still at 200mph relative to the Earth. You don't quite get it compared to that video because that video is wrong and you are right. It makes no difference which direction you fire east/west it will go the same distance and take the same amount of time. Everything is moving in relation to the earth so the forces cancel as if there is no rotation. If we were talking north/south firing that's a different story (always aim left!). The coriolis effect still applies in East-West shooting. It applies in every direction. In the Northern hemisphere, always aim left. In the Southern, always aim right. |
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