Probably went all first amendment auditor on them.

Because their parents fought and died because Hitler hated Jews.  How they had to travel 3000 miles across the ocean to get shot, because Hitler hated Jews.  Their whole lives they got to hear stories about how the Nazis systematically, and as a matter of public policy, engaged in genocide against the Jews.

Israel was the world's response to the Nazi genocide, to give the Jews a place that they could call their own, so nothing like the holocaust could ever happen again to the Jews.  That it is any decent human's obligation to promote and protect the state of Israel, so that nothing like the holocaust could ever happen again.

So your "rights" only are valid if you're behaving in a "predictable" way.  uh huh.

You're not a legal scholar by any stretch...

You sound like you have battered wife syndrome or some shit lol

My religion doesn't believe that we are the "chosen ones" and anyone not like me is basically subhuman...so no, probably no confrontation.

Weird how Christians are always fair game.

Not sure what you mean here.  

I’ve read every major religious text, from the Quran to the Book of Mormon.  Suffice it to say, different religions have very different beliefs about how to treat those who believe differently.

It's not a Jewish thing...hating on Jesus is a global pastime.
Chinese government even makes it a policy.

Jesus straight up tells us...if people hate me...they will hate you.

Humans love to feel like our accomplishments earn us favor with gods and men.

Jesus tells us that his grace is not only all we need...but all that is required for salvation.

Tell a man who has to skip out on bacon his entire life that it wont save his soul....of course he would be irritated.

It's 2023 and people like you still don't understand that clownworld exists because of secularism and atheism.

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Takes two to fight.

IMO, most of the gravest injustices man has done unto his fellow man have been done either in the name of religion, or expressly against one form of religion.

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While you are statistically correct, I suspect it is a case of correlation does not equal causation.

People want an excuse to be shitty to one another.  Differences of religions are an easy/convenient excuse to do so.  If there was no religion, they would still be shitty, but they would just justify it a different way.

Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities;

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son"

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness"

In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

So Pilate said to him, “You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and authority to crucify you?” Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.


The Jews and The Romans combined didnt have the ability to Kill Jesus...just like they couldn't stop him from rising from the grave.

Jesus said that all he had to do was ask..and 12 Legions of Angels would be ready for war at his command.

The warrior King set aside his sword ..and gave himself as the ransom for many.

Every single poster in the above quote chain is religious. The word only means that you have a belief system.
----------------
sbrs: No, *our branch* of clown world exists because "clown world" is in everyone's hearts and heads. No exceptions on that either.

We get the particular version of clown world that we do here because of the religions of secularism and atheism.

Belief systems that ignore these facts exacerbate the effect of "clownworld."

-----------------------

On the thread topic: Oh golly, it's almost like genesis 3, and psalm 51:5, 14:1-2, & isaiah 59:7-8 ... are real, and people still behave that way ... and ignore stuff like ...

(Leviticus 19:33-34)
[33] ‘When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong.
[34] The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God.

The people in OP's video were acting just like the sort who only prefer the passages about retribution and crushing. If those are a person's favorite passages, with everything else coming in a over-the-horizon second ... well. Again, all those passages quoted just above as being real ... are real.

This is why God saves as his enemies. If he didn't give us this mercy, nobody would get saved.

vom

I'm not going to get worked up over an out of context video.

Oh, I'd say still safely on four.  A single person may have existed yet was made heroical through mythology in later tales straying far from the original accounts.  Or several personages may have been blended into a compound identity.  In documentation, it's called Interpolation, the insertion of something of a different nature into something else.  Tales of stories spread by mouth (Greek, literally "Myth", not a word necessarily meaning "False") written backwards against source material to satisfy foreign adherents' messianic hopes is quite commonplace in the Classical age as the Roman Empire faltered.  People needed something to believe in after pagan Jupiter just wasn't cutting it anymore. No small part in why the Gospels read like a play.  And public theater was the Greco-Roman way to spread news.

As was the case here as the stories got a little better and more stupendous with each retelling in the Latin world over the following several centuries until the new Roman church under Constantine finally put a stop to it and closed Canon on the subject -- except tuning the necessary additions designed to clean up plot holes in Gospels noted by classical Rationalists.  Any remaining problems became a wonderful mystery.  

Legend is a fair option, fine sir.

There's an Israeli politician, Avram Burg. In the last book of his I read there was an anecdote about when he went to visit some of the more... Hardcore Orthodox Israelis. This young boy, around 6 years old goes up to him and says. "I know you, my father told me about you! You're a traitor to our country. You want peace with the arabs and the Americans!"

I've heard about their... Scuffles with Arabs. But I didn't know that they were also at war with America...

It's not.

Unless you're going to use the standard you pick to say it's a legend everywhere it would also apply equally.

Do you even know what you'd have to pick as a standard to say that Jesus is just a legend?

Virtually anything you pick that will get you there rationaly without logical holes is going to render you into a solopsist or something very close to that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_tag_attack_policy



Make of it what you will.

Man is ever wolf to man.

I do when it comes to the media.  Anything like that video is designed to promote an emotional response from the viewer.  Sadly reality doesn't match the first pass the media shows you.  Especially when it comes to Israel.  The media has it in for them regardless of what the truth is.

Count it all joy.

I’m sure they asked for it…

Yep

And you've been treated worse by inner city thugs who proclaimed "On my mama" or on my god".

Stay out of the whacked out area's it's the best for us all.

You do still have your neck attached to your body right ?

Legend has to mean nearly definitionally, that there is no historical Jesus. That's seriously a 150 year theory more or less completely discounted by all but the fringe of those who study the historicity of Jesus.

We can have a thread on it, but its really hard to square the theory you're positing with Roman and Jewish accounts within the next hundred years or so, on that basis alone.

From like the third hit from Google, from History.com

That’s patently false 12 year old edge lord bullshit and is wholly unsubstantiatible.

You spelled Communism wrong

The word you're searching for is 'Fable'.  That's something different.

For demonstration purposes, here is 'Legend':  There's a pure legend, such as the tales of Paul Bunyan who never existed. There's also "The Legend of Grizzly Adams" who did in fact exist but was after his death subject of tall tales about his exploits far more compelling and interesting than his real life, same as other folksy rural tales of plucky frontiersmen like Boone and Crockett.  Much like Parson Weems spreading invented apocryphal stories about the very real George Washington de-barking his father's cherry tree with his new youth-sized hatchet to establish to 19th century schoolkids Washington could not tell a lie.  Or a collection of moral story tales attributed to Confucius (Kong Fuzi) who was probably real but had a bunch of other Chinese scholars' earlier and later teachings anachronistically attributed to him, or even yet Sun Tzu who wrote a legendary compendium on strategy but was almost certainly not a real living historic figure.

This storied man called Jesus fits the definition of legend.  Nobody said fable. Unless you're planning to argue all teachings attributed to him were established in the early Church in low versus high Christology and want to skip right over how Jerome and Augustine and Chrystosom developed off of Paul to make Jesus into God and put words into his mouth.  Filled in for him on things he never said.  Muddled it with a Koine Greek Septuagint translation and pretended it was Jesus' native scripture his very ghost told Saul/Paul (hailing from today's T rkiye) to teach from. And attributed derived teachings to Jesus he never meant.  The later Church developed all that.  Very un-Jewish. Original Sin, and so on.  That's Legend, good sir.

So, I contend that C.S Lewis' trilemma is a false dilemma with only its three choices.  The addition of "Legend" fixes it, and it becomes Quadrilemma.

Anyone who reads the Bible shouldn’t be surprised by any of this.

It’s not right, for sure, but it has been written for millennia that this would be how things end up.

Next you're going to tell me they won't write + signs over there.

Sometimes you should keep your opinion (religious, political) to yourself

Not a flex, I was just insulting some people who see it fit to harass some random woman talking about religion

If you do see a headline about a nursing home turning into a ufc event, it wasn't me I swear

Ok, and how do we know parson weems made up lies about washington?

Show how the same was done to the biblical texts.

Write out your math.

Don't just pound the pulpit and yell loudly and expect the country hicks to take you at your word and their mommies and daddies to spank them if they won't.

Can you produce any original source in which jerome and chrysostom "developed off of Paul to make Jesus into God and put words into his mouth" and "Filled in for him on things he never said." Surely you aren't just repeating things you've heard and don't know about?

You do know that the septuigant wasn't written by jerome, who was born circa 340s, and the septuigiant was written in 280-250 bc.  You'd only be off by ~500 years there.  Oh, and the septuigiant was of the old testament. Not the new.

It's a nice show you put on there, as long as nobody bothers to read what youv'e said.

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It sort of makes sense. Like messing with your little brother vs someone else messing with your little brother

Lol. +1 for FAFO

Let's use your own handy bible for a few examples.  Perhaps you even have a New KJV.  Find Romans 7:1-4.  Here Paul proclaims that in Jesus' death the law (the derived Jewish law in exegesis from Torah) is made invalid.  Jesus himself insists no such thing, but quite the opposite, that he observes Jewish law and so should all Jews and that not one jot or tittle shall be changed until all things have come to pass.  But dominant Christian theology says this hasn't happened yet, that nation shall not lift up sword against nation and neither shall there be war anymore as in Isaiah, Jesus' favorite prophet to quote.  You're evidently waiting on his second coming in which he'll finish the job.  You must be, since opening a newspaper tells us both this doesn't look like any kind of redeemed world, friend.  Yet this aforementioned passage from Paul is fundamental to later writings of Augustine, Chrystosom, Jerome, and Tertullian in the Church's development of Supercession.

Another? Let's see if we can trust Paul to translate properly.  Compare in your own bible Paul's letter to the Romans (10:6-8) where he references Deuteronomy (30:11-14). Read these side by side flipping between pages in the same bible you have nearby.  His appeal is that it is impossible to follow the Jewish law to redemption without Jesus, but see that omits the last line where in Deuteronomy (30:14) it clearly says "so that you may do it." (Under the law) and negates an established Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) as commanded by God to the Jewish people Numbers (29:7-11), Leviticus (16:30), and Leviticus (23:26-32, depending on whether you have a Catholic or Protestant Christian bible).  This is clear erasure by Paul and is fundamental to early Christian church fathers who insisted the God's own established commandment isn't enough to atone, but one must drink the blood and eat the flesh of Jesus   who, ironically, since they believe Jesus is God was the very one who commanded Jews to atone and be cleansed of transgression on a regulated yearly basis in the Hebrew calendar.  Oh, and that calendared atonement is happening in two weeks from this writing in fact. And if you know anything about Transubstantiation, the Church genuinely means and demands consuming actual flesh and blood, transformed by a Catholic or Eastern Orthodox priest.  That's exactly the kind of bullshit that will justifiably prompt a snotty little Haredi kid to kick an interloping Christian evangelist woman in the shins if you ask me.  Plus she's dressed immodestly with her forearms showing, and if she could read the Yiddish posters plastered all over the place in those neighborhoods demanding modest dress of visitors she'd have known that.

Also, the Septuagint you may be familiar with is a reconstruction of the Catholic Church and not the one Paul evidently had.  For 1600 years it was insisted by the Church that the Jews changed Torah to diminish messianic claims that point to Jesus' divinity.  That all came from Chrystosom and Tertullian. But then in 1946 some Jordanian Bedouin shepherds chasing some of their wayward sheep in the craggy hills above the Dead Sea found the first caves of the Dead Sea Scrolls which later proved out that Jewish scribal tradition remained largely rigid and static for almost 300 years before Jesus with scarce deviation.  

I'd point you to Bart D. Ehrman's "How Jesus Became God" for more on the subject. Dr. Ehrman has his pet theories but I believe he's largely on the right track.  It covers Jesus heroicized into divinity through legend by the early Church.  And a Trinity concept to further confuse things with aspects of a mystery cult.  It's not really the man called Jesus at fault here, it's the Roman Church that emerged centuries after his death.  Designed to breathe new life into an empire that had taken a huge nosedive across the Mediterranean provinces thanks to a few centuries of craven Roman emperor failures worse than Mussolini and Jimmy Carter combined.

Back to C.S. Lewis' trilemma about Jesus:  A liar?  Not necessarily.  He spoke established Jewish principles and cultural traditions of the time to a Jewish audience, not gentiles. A lunatic?  Delusional perhaps, but he anticipated an apocalypse that everyone could sense was coming under the hostile and overbearing Roman occupation of Judea. So then was he the Lord?  Hardly.  He fulfilled no prophecy which is why his original apostles who traveled about with Jesus' ministry were found in their old age living outside of Judea in Antioch (then Roman Syria) having long abandoned the hope of Jesus imminent return when the Apostolic Age came to a close, and when Paul met these men who knew Jesus personally (one even being his very brother) they basically told him their movement is for observant Jews and not gentiles.  But Paul had other ideas and won out by evangelizing his own new religion that became dominant and no longer Jewish.  That leaves "Legend", an option C.S. Lewis must have refused to consider.

This ends my participation here on the subject.  If you're happy with Jesus and you know it clap your hands.  Others who might have critical questions might read what's available.

Jesus is celebrated in Islam and seen as a prophet. Worshipping him now will get you in timeout per sharia unless you pay the tax

This. Ultra Orthodox Jews are batshit crazy fuckers.

Israel is flooded with paid missionaries who are trying to 'save' the Jews. I know this because my own brother has done this. He truly believed they are condemned to hell if they don't accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior, but they see things differently and don't appreciate the intrusion.

And really, how would you feel if a Muslim imam came to your town to 'save' your children into Islam?

I didn't watch the video though. Rudeness is never acceptable.

@PvtCowboy

My bad reading for presuming you mean jerome and chrysostom wrote the septuigiant. I should have done better.


Where did jerome and chrysostom go?

Handwavium?  If you can just selectively drop claims that you based your conclusions on and ignore them and move to something else, what point is there in reading anything you post? Why shouldn't people just expect you to do that wherever it's handy for you?

First - it's selective quoting to stop at 4 when the thought continues till verse 6.
No. He doesn't say the law is made invalid. This is not what the words there mean. 1-4 say no such thing.

You should have quoted further.


Released from the law how? For what purpose? Released from it as a standard of judging whether they had made themselves right before G_d? Released from it in the sense of the law no longer being any standard for behavior? It certainly doesn't say the law was made invalid. You're not playing games with words where you mean made invalid regarding X and you'll change the variable to suit your argument?  Given you talk about supercession I'm guessing you mean just outright completley invalidated the law itself and made it null...  

Read the text.

It ... doesn't say.  You're saying "Paul says" where the text says no such thing. If you're just allowed to assume and shove that assumption in where the text doesn't say it, there's no point in listening to you when you say "but the author said." You'll just make stuff up and shove it in.
In fact:




Either you aren't posting what you're working off of, or you're jumping around and giving no indication that you are and why. You go from falsely saying that paul invalidated the law to ... trying to make hay over the fact that the redemption of all creation didn't happen at the same time that the redemption of people to make them right with G_d happened?

We don't believe anything that requires G_d to have redeemed everything all at once. I suspect you are thinking of something you were taught as a kid and attributing that to us.






Dumb word games it is.

"Here's the rule for you to follow, (given to you) so that you can follow it" does not mean "you are able to follow it."  

If you're not going to do your work and read ... this is going to get long quickly.

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So - the babylonian captivity happened, ... why? Because they (collective ancient national israelis) couldn't follow follow the law.

Please, read the rest of the passage. Find the other verse. I read it. I'm waiting for you to quote it. I want you to. You'll have to mangle it to get what you probably want out of it.



If you actually beleive this than you have to say that the babylonian captivity itself negated these things, because they had the curses of deut 30 17 and 18 poured out on them for not following the law. If those atonements had actually atoned and made the people righteous, in their hearts and actions, the curses would never have come to pass on them.


In no universe is what they did appropriate reaction to having your forearms uncovered. That's not scriptural: they were just being asses and deserve to have their butts beat for what they did, if not worse. Stop making excuses for humans who are acting like vicious animals. They and you are not special and do not deserve uber rights that allow them to abuse people and sin.

Those atonements never made the people righteous.

God circumcising their hearts - giving the a new nature - is what made those who got that right in G_d's eyes, and that was always and only a remnant within physical and national israel, and when the nation had the curses come down onto them and they were led into captivity, that remnant went with them.

Transubstatiation is not christian. It is romish. RCC is not christian; it has a different ultimate authority (even by their own admission), and it has a different gospel (Jesus makes you possibly able to *maybe* work your way into purgatory, instead of Jesus actually saves you). I am not rcc. You're wasting your time posting to me about that.

 
I'm not going to believe this just because you said it.

Regarding changing the texts...



... would you care to mention if the DSS are pointed or not?

Do you think none of us know about that? There are people who aren't in the tank on the unbelieving side who can read the text sans points who can see what's been done.



Ehrman is a known deciever if not outright liar.

He intentionally tells people only part of the story, I suspect he does it so he can make shipwreck of what people believe.

His schtick is to tell people about the differences between manuscripts, say how many there are, say how there are more of them than words in the new testament (or bible as a whole) and try to use that to scare people into believing you can't rely on the texts. He doesn't tell people what those differences are. Misspellings? Word order? Things that don't even make a difference at all when you translate?

He won't, because he knows if you do that, his popular level books that he made bank off would collapse. He's also not telling anyone anything that's hidden or not known or not easily accessible. You can get copies of the biblical text with all the meaningful and viable differences noted out for translators. In fact, the majority of our bibles now even have footnotes that indicate these places.

Erhman also plays the sleazy game of saying that the only way textual transmission could happen is the ancient equivalent of chinese whispers / the phone game (where people intentionally try and screw up what they heard). Which is a joke, because that would only apply if the spread of the copies were meaningfully controlled - it wasn't - AND nobody could check other copies, and earlier copies, to check for and correct errors.

Erhman is a known deciever on the topic of the bible. He does it intentionally, and makes loads of money doing it; and should have been run out of academia and publishing a long time ago - but because he says stuff academics and publishers like (hey, this bible stuff is fake, you aren't sinning, you don't have to answer to God) they amplify what he has to say.

His deceptions and sleazy tactics applied to the tanach(sp) would do to it what it does to the NT.


You wouldn't allow anything else to be true because it would go against what you want to believe.

Christians are tolerated at best, and hated at worst.

Obnoxious, proselytizing Christians more so.

There are strains of Ultra Orthodox Judaism that pray for the destruction of the State of Israel in order to hasten the arrival of the Messiah.

That's the kind of fucking crazy I'm talking about Bro!!

Missionary doing stupid and unsafe stuff?  Neva been dun befo’.

There's a lot of Jews that think Hitler and the Holocaust were sent by god for the exact same thing.

Not socmuch abiut rights. Just that when you go stirring up shit, sometimes it backfires.

Also, legal rights aren't the same in other parts of the world.

Did you used to have your location set to Israel?

Strict Orthodox Jews are a whole other ball game. Whole other planet, almost.

Drive past the Wailing Wall on the Sabbath and then post a picture of your car.